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Are all estate agents the same?
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Well done for following it up, let us know how you get on with the Vendor and good luck!0
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There will never be any transparncy in the irish home buying/selling process untill a seperate agent that can represent both buyer and seller enter this market.
In fact there is now even a worse situation developing as agents are requiring sellers to sign up to a contract PREVENTING them from listing with multiple agents at the same time. It beggars belief that this is allowed happen and has the potential to create an even bigger property bubble than last time.
Its a shame, as the profession is quite respected in other countries where a buying agent to actually helping people own their dream home.0 -
That, in my opinion, is where part of the problem lies. It prevents competition and the EA can just sit back until a client that he likes comes in looking for that type of property. He knows that eventually he will get the sale, and his commission, while doing the least amount of work.There will never be any transparncy in the irish home buying/selling process untill a seperate agent that can represent both buyer and seller enter this market.
In fact there is now even a worse situation developing as agents are requiring sellers to sign up to a contract PREVENTING them from listing with multiple agents at the same time. It beggars belief that this is allowed happen and has the potential to create an even bigger property bubble than last time.
Its a shame, as the profession is quite respected in other countries where a buying agent to actually helping people own their dream home.
Talk about having your cake and eating it. Just a different type of gravy train.0 -
It baffles me why people are so surprised that EAs are out for every penny. EVERY salesperson, be they cars, houses, consumer goods, whatever they're selling - is out to get the maximum profit they can for themselves/their boss/their client so they can get paid and earn commission. It's their job, and yes they'll be economical with the truth to extort more money. If any poster here was in the same position they would do the same thing. They don't do it for the good of their health.0
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borderlinemeath wrote: »It baffles me why people are so surprised that EAs are out for every penny. EVERY salesperson, be they cars, houses, consumer goods, whatever they're selling - is out to get the maximum profit they can for themselves/their boss/their client so they can get paid and earn commission. It's their job, and yes they'll be economical with the truth to extort more money. If any poster here was in the same position they would do the same thing. They don't do it for the good of their health.
i have no problem with someone trying to get the best price for something they are selling. i have no problem with sales people doing the best for the clients or employers. however i do take offence and i do have a problem with people who are meant to be professional telling lies and be down right deceitful.
That is my code of ethics isnt acceptable and for people to say leave it, sure it is what it is are the very people who have this country destroyed. you are right, they are not doing it for their health they are doing it for their deep greedy pockets.
the longer people put up with and make excuses the longer this country will continue to suffer.
economical with the truth? extortion? no place for it and i won't accept or deal with that kind of so called professional.0 -
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i have no problem with someone trying to get the best price for something they are selling. i have no problem with sales people doing the best for the clients or employers. however i do take offence and i do have a problem with people who are meant to be professional telling lies and be down right deceitful.
That is my code of ethics isnt acceptable and for people to say leave it, sure it is what it is are the very people who have this country destroyed. you are right, they are not doing it for their health they are doing it for their deep greedy pockets.
the longer people put up with and make excuses the longer this country will continue to suffer.
economical with the truth? extortion? no place for it and i won't accept or deal with that kind of so called professional.
I never said leave it?
As a buyer, you always need to be wary. He did pass on the offer, but as you found out it wasn't completely dismissed, the vendor was 'considering it' as he told you. It's not completely contradictory, if the EA had told you that the vendor was 'considering it' you would be brimming with confidence that you would get it at the price offered. He twisted the truth to benefit his client and for you not to get your hopes up. Don't forget, you were the one that contacted the EA as he didn't get back to you in a timely manner, (while the vendor was considering it and hadn't given a final answer) you just wouldn't wait and acted like an eager buyer. I'm not surprised that the EA acted as he did, given you showed how interested you were. I'm not saying it's right, but I'm certainly not surprised, given you put your cards on the table, so to speak.0 -
borderlinemeath wrote: »I never said leave it?
As a buyer, you always need to be wary. He did pass on the offer, but as you found out it wasn't completely dismissed, the vendor was 'considering it' as he told you. It's not completely contradictory, if the EA had told you that the vendor was 'considering it' you would be brimming with confidence that you would get it at the price offered. He twisted the truth to benefit his client and for you not to get your hopes up. Don't forget, you were the one that contacted the EA as he didn't get back to you in a timely manner, (while the vendor was considering it and hadn't given a final answer) you just wouldn't wait and acted like an eager buyer. I'm not surprised that the EA acted as he did, given you showed how interested you were. I'm not saying it's right, but I'm certainly not surprised, given you put your cards on the table, so to speak.
I'll simplify the situation down here. Twisting the truth (telling lies)
Economical with the truth
Extort money from people
Is this acceptable in your book, because you claim that anyone would do the above if they were in the position to do so and opportunity arose.
I wouldn't personally. Do you think that's alright?
As for my own personnel situation. The fact I came on here looking for advice would suggest I am naive in buying property as I stated from the off I am a first time buyer.
Does that make it right to tell lies and act in an unprofessional manner?0 -
I'll simplify the situation down here. Twisting the truth (telling lies)
Economical with the truth
Extort money from people
Is this acceptable in your book, because you claim that anyone would do the above if they were in the position to do so and opportunity arose.
I wouldn't personally. Do you think that's alright?
As for my own personnel situation. The fact I came on here looking for advice would suggest I am naive in buying property as I stated from the off I am a first time buyer.
Does that make it right to tell lies and act in an unprofessional manner?
I never said it was acceptable, but I recognise it goes on in ALL sales professions. It's the same as buying a car, just a house is on a much larger scale. You are always warned to 'bring a mechanic' or 'get an AA report' because it's assumed that there's going to be exaggerations as to the condition of the car.
I'm only using a car as an example as it's a considerable purchase that you don't make on a whim, and on a rare enough occasion, yet everybody is aware of the risks. IMO it's the same with EAs, they're the same suit, just selling different wares, yet you seem shocked that they're doing everything in their power to get the most money for their client -> commission.0 -
Several estate agents that I have dealt with possess a number of the characteristics commonly associated with sociopaths.
That said I did have a chat with an EA during the week at a viewing who seemed like a very nice chap.
Unfortunately there is no way to prove or disprove anything they tell you. The only way to preserve your own sanity appers to be to decide your limit for an individual property before you start bidding and let them do their worst. When the bidding passes your limit, move on.....0 -
borderlinemeath wrote: »It's the same as buying a car, just a house is on a much larger scale.
It is absolutely not the same as buying a car. Any standardised car will have a well-known and determinable value due to a large number of almost identical substitutes widely available on the market.
The price of a 09 Ford Focus will not vary widely within the space of a year due to (perceived) demand, whereas the price of an individual house could. The behavioural patterns of car dealers cannot make the price of cars change significantly. The behaviour of a group of estate agents in a particular area can.0 -
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borderlinemeath wrote: »I never said it was acceptable, but I recognise it goes on in ALL sales professions. It's the same as buying a car, just a house is on a much larger scale. You are always warned to 'bring a mechanic' or 'get an AA report' because it's assumed that there's going to be exaggerations as to the condition of the car.
I'm only using a car as an example as it's a considerable purchase that you don't make on a whim, and on a rare enough occasion, yet everybody is aware of the risks. IMO it's the same with EAs, they're the same suit, just selling different wares, yet you seem shocked that they're doing everything in their power to get the most money for their client -> commission.
Well I am glad you agree with me that it's not acceptable.
I think the general consensus is there needs to be more regulation and transparency.
I am aware that people differ and that some dishonest people will try any trick to pull the wool over your eyes.
That said the property bubble was a massive contributor to the economic problems this country suffered and will continue to suffer for some time to come. Therefore it would make sense to put regulations in place to stop cowboys like the individual I mentioned having further input that may cause damage.
I now know what I'm dealing now with so I will be well prepared in future.0 -
It is absolutely not the same as buying a car. Any standardised car will have a well-known and determinable value due to a large number of almost identical substitutes widely available on the market.
The price of a 09 Ford Focus will not vary widely within the space of a year due to (perceived) demand, whereas the price of an individual house could. The behavioural patterns of car dealers cannot make the price of cars change significantly. The behaviour of a group of estate agents in a particular area can.
Did you read my post? I even explained why I used the car comparison - it's not about the price, my point in ALL my posts has been to show that ALL salespeople will employ the same tactics to obtain the best price. The car comparison was used because it's a rare enough purchase, it's something that the majority of people don't know a huge amount about and are advised to get a mechanic to check out the car rather than to assume that everything the salesperson says is the truth. The lack of truth from the EA being the problem with the OP from the start.
You're also suggesting that EAs are involved in price fixing the market. At the minute it's purely supply and demand, I doubt very much they're in cahoots, rather fighting tooth and nail to get the few houses that are coming on the market onto their books rather than their competitors.0 -
Correct. Although there may be a cash buyer, I doubt a cash buyer would've offered less than 10k below asking.You're saying the EA claims no bids and sells it to a friend for a low value, right?
The last sentence meant that the OP should goto the house they were looking at, and ask one of the next door neighbours how long was the house for sale, and if they (the neighbour) could pass on the OP's bid to the house owner, on the off chance that the neighbour kept in contact with the house owner.whats the last sentence mean?
At first I thought you were going to suggest, if the EA was claiming to getting no bids, get a friend of the seller to make an offer and see if they pass it on to the seller, thus knowing if the EA was being upfront.
It seems the OP has gotten the home owners number, however.
On this, it's the EA's job to extort the maximum amount of money from the buyer. If I'm selling my house, I'd goto to the EA who has a track record of high priced sales; If I wanted honesty, I'd sell it myself.Extort money from people0 -
Correct. Although there may be a cash buyer, I doubt a cash buyer would've offered less than 10k below asking.
The last sentence meant that the OP should goto the house they were looking at, and ask one of the next door neighbours how long was the house for sale, and if they (the neighbour) could pass on the OP's bid to the house owner, on the off chance that the neighbour kept in contact with the house owner.
It seems the OP has gotten the home owners number, however.
On this, it's the EA's job to extort the maximum amount of money from the buyer. If I'm selling my house, I'd goto to the EA who has a track record of high priced sales; If I wanted honesty, I'd sell it myself.
Well we will have to differ on that.
Extort: to obtain (something) by force, threats, or other unfair means.
If I make an offer on a property I'd expect the EA to convey it to vendor. Accept or decline. If it's declined up the offer or walk away. That's fine
I don't expect the EA to lie and be dishonest. The vendor in my circumstance could be equally as annoyed as me. Could be looking to sell now but has lost me, the interested party due to being told lies. He may not sell the property for weeks or months as a result of this.
Just for the record I have spoken to vendor who was surprised that this has happened and not too pleased.
Guess there is honest people out there.
He is currently considering my offer.0 -
At least you got to see the house. I've been trying to arrange to see a house for weeks and the agent keeps cancelling viewings on the day. This morning he had his secretary call me 20 minutes before the viewing to cancel on me. I was on my way to the house with my 1 year old which isn't the easiest thing to get done to a schedule. To top it off the last time we talked the EA asked me if I was a serious buyer as he deals with a lot of time wasters. All he does is waste my time.
Part of me wants to tell him to f off but the house seems to tick most of my boxes and I'd like to see it.0 -
At least you got to see the house. I've been trying to arrange to see a house for weeks and the agent keeps cancelling viewings on the day. This morning he had his secretary call me 20 minutes before the viewing to cancel on me. I was on my way to the house with my 1 year old which isn't the easiest thing to get done to a schedule. To top it off the last time we talked the EA asked me if I was a serious buyer as he deals with a lot of time wasters. All he does is waste my time.
Part of me wants to tell him to f off but the house seems to tick most of my boxes and I'd like to see it.
Oh that is terrible bad form iguana!!
Would you call to the vendors home yourself?? Let them know you can't get clear communication with EA and that you're interested but he's behaviour is turning you off the house?0 -
We've decided to contact some vendors directly ourselves to see what the story is. A few things EAs have said to us just don't add up.
I don't think we have anything to lose at this stage. We are going to recount our dealings with the EA and ask them if this is still the position.0 -
as there is no regulation, is there even a code of conduct.
If a seller found out an EA hadn't passed on offers by being contacted by a buyer, how obligated would they be to honour any contract signed with said EA if the EA had broken the contract (presumably its written into any agreement to pass on all offers without delay and if it isn't included why wouldnt a seller insist on adding that?) by not passing on offers.0 -
as there is no regulation, is there even a code of conduct.
If a seller found out an EA hadn't passed on offers by being contacted by a buyer, how obligated would they be to honour any contract signed with said EA if the EA had broken the contract (presumably its written into any agreement to pass on all offers without delay and if it isn't included why wouldnt a seller insist on adding that?) by not passing on offers.
....there is.
http://www.psr.ie/website/npsra/npsraweb.nsf/page/index-en
Report any dealings to the PSR that you believe to be contentious and worthy of a complaint.0 -
The_Morrigan wrote: »....there is.
http://www.psr.ie/website/npsra/npsraweb.nsf/page/index-en
Report any dealings to the PSR that you believe to be contentious and worthy of a complaint.
I thought it was self regulated,
news to me,
I still think it could mean an EA could circumvent rules and relies on the buyer or seller finding out about offers not passed on.
offers should be a legal form with receipt, and require to be accepted or declined only by the seller after they see it.0 -
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About July last year, I wanted to view a property in Leitrim and one in Co Cavan that an EA in Co Laois was advertising. I was told they would contact me when it they were available for viewings.
As nothing happened for several weeks so I phoned again and was told that they were still organising viewings.
I phoned again in August to see what was happening and was told that they were still organizing viewings.
I see the Co Cavan property is still on the market - well, it is still advertised on Daft.0 -
Hi all, interesting topic. I too have had some shenanigans with a slippery estate agent. I'm all for anybody trying to earn a living but some agents really are a law unto themselves. 20 years ago, an unscrupulous devious agent had me over for a couple of grand, I was selling my gaff and he conveniently 'forgot' to pass on a higher offer to me. After I found out what he had done, I marched round to his office and beat him up.
Now, 20 yrs later, I am having some dodgy agent pulling a stroke on a property that I'm after. Only this time I decided to keep my hands firmly to myself and secretly recorded all viewings, conversations, etc. It really doesn't surprise me just how many porkies these agents tell. Anyway, I spoke to the folks down at psr and they were very helpful.0 -
Hi all, interesting topic. I too have had some shenanigans with a slippery estate agent. I'm all for anybody trying to earn a living but some agents really are a law unto themselves. 20 years ago, an unscrupulous devious agent had me over for a couple of grand, I was selling my gaff and he conveniently 'forgot' to pass on a higher offer to me. After I found out what he had done, I marched round to his office and beat him up.
Now, 20 yrs later, I am having some dodgy agent pulling a stroke on a property that I'm after. Only this time I decided to keep my hands firmly to myself and secretly recorded all viewings, conversations, etc. It really doesn't surprise me just how many porkies these agents tell. Anyway, I spoke to the folks down at psr and they were very helpful.
You beat him up? Couldnt do that in this day and age but i say fair play to you! Did he give you the couple of grand he owed you after that?0 -
Unfortunately I didn't get a penny from the agent but giving him a slap made me feel better. This particular agent had done a 'secret' deal with a housing association, and that was to find them cheap properties at a good price and to shut out everybody else. When a private buyer came knocking at my door one evening demanding to know why I hadn't responded to his 'offer', all was suddenly revealed and this buyer told me that the agent kept on cancelling pre-arranged viewings with him. By the time all this came to light, it was too late as I had already signed on the dotted line.
So now, I'm slap bang in the middle of another property purchase, only this time I have recorded everything, save me having do resort to fisticuffs.0 -
Unfortunately I didn't get a penny from the agent but giving him a slap made me feel better. This particular agent had done a 'secret' deal with a housing association, and that was to find them cheap properties at a good price and to shut out everybody else. When a private buyer came knocking at my door one evening demanding to know why I hadn't responded to his 'offer', all was suddenly revealed and this buyer told me that the agent kept on cancelling pre-arranged viewings with him. By the time all this came to light, it was too late as I had already signed on the dotted line.
So now, I'm slap bang in the middle of another property purchase, only this time I have recorded everything, save me having do resort to fisticuffs.
we record our dealings now too. Particulary there was one agent we dealt with who would ring us at 11pm at night, clearly after a few G&Ts say one thing and then deny it all the next day! We have it all recorded and are going to report her to the PSR as her lies were shocking.0 -
I had a problem with my solicitor in that when I phone him, I always got his secretary who usually said the he was with a client and that he would phone back. He seemed to be dragging his feet and didn't seem to contact the vendor's solicitor. Buying from the vendor, without the EA, proved very good as the vendor and I were in contact on a weekly basis as to how things were progressing - he was able to tell me that my solicitor had been in contact with his solicitor.
No calls or emails received. I got so annoyed, I phoned again, got the secretary, and told her that the call was being recorded. I think legally, and to be able to use the recording as evidence, you must inform the other parties that they are being recorded or videoed. He said that he had phoned me on several occasions but had had no reply and that he had sent me an email which I never received - my mobile had not recorded any missed calls and I check my spam mail just in case, but there was nothing there.
So after some time waiting, I spoke to the solicitor, but forgot to mention to him the call was being recorded. He brought me up to date with the conveyancing and I was happy with that.
A couple of minutes later, he called again and went up the wall. Obviously, the secretary must have said something to him about my recording the call. He said that he would cease to act for me as there was no trust between us, he would send me the bill for the work he had done and would pass the files to another solicitor of my choice, when the bill was paid.
Five minutes later, he phoned again, apologised for the rant and would be willing to continue to act for me, if I was agreeable.
Eventually, the vendor got feed up with how slow the sale was proceeding (this was nearly 3 months after we agreed that I would buy his property) and set a deadline for the Friday week and if not completed by then, he would with draw from the sale as he had other buyers in line.
The Friday passed, but the vendor did not pull out and on the following Wednesday, The Wednesday afternoon before Christmas, I got a call fro my solicitor to say the deal could be completed on Friday, if I could get the full payment to him. I got the payment to him on the Thursday afternoon, he had received the keys on the Friday morning, so I collected then from him (having driven two and a half hours to get to him (he was due to close a 2 p.m. Friday (like so many businesses, the Friday before Christmas - what a lot of lazy people we have in Ireland - yes, I know many work, but many start their Christmas break early - but that's the result of working abroad where many countries celebrate Christmas on the 24th in the evening (having worked until about midday); have the 25th off and back to work on the 26th.
He told me that if I couldn't get there before closing, to phone him and he would return to give me the keys, and do the final paperwork to ensure that everything was completed before the New Year (thus benefiting from not having to pay the new property tax until 2015). Went to the property and stayed the night and for Christmas (as the property was bought furnished).
I eventually completed the move in mid January. Happy as Larry in the new place!!0 -
In my experience. Estate agents tend to be lying scumbags bereft of any moral compass. They are simply not to be trusted. Ireland's property market will continue to be one of the most corrupt property markets in the world if the current complete lack of regulation is allowed to continue.
It amazes me how quickly people will make a statement which is factually incorrect.
The property sector is regulated through the PSRA. If you have issue with any service provider in this industry please report it to the PSRA.0 -
blacklilly wrote: »It amazes me how quickly people will make a statement which is factually incorrect.
The property sector is regulated through the PSRA. If you have issue with any service provider in this industry please report it to the PSRA.
The time is the problem. the PRSA process is not instant, nor can it be. so if you are bidding on a house now and dealing with an incompetant agent, who is lying to you, chances are by the time the PSRA investigate your house is gone. And that is if they even do anything anyway.0 -
The time is the problem. the PRSA process is not instant, nor can it be. so if you are bidding on a house now and dealing with an incompetant agent, who is lying to you, chances are by the time the PSRA investigate your house is gone. And that is if they even do anything anyway.
Well the PSRA have to deal with every complaint they receive, that is their job, now whether the outcome of that is favourable to you or the complaint is unfounded is another matter.
Personally if I was dealing with an agent who I felt was messing me around/acting unethically, I would not continue bidding and I would lodge a complaint.
It seems that people have no issue complaining on threads like this yet will not take the formal approach and lodge a complaint. Until people start using the proper chanels these so called dodgy estate agents will remain in business.0 -
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I will also add my experience with EAS in Cork which is very similar. I have to say on our first property we dealt with a company, I won't mention the name now. Everything was spot on, very professional, quick and efficient, definitely no messing around. The sale fell through because issues with the property not the agent.
We recently started bidding on a new house and the feel is we deal with a scumy estate agent this time around. We put a very reasonable bid just a few thousand under the asking price. We heard nothing from the EA for two weeks. When we contacted him he said that there was another offer of two thousand higher than ours. We upped our bid. No word from the estate agent again for about a week. We contacted him again and he says "I was going to call you. Last night we got another offer", again two thousand higher than ours. We upped our offer again. He calls us and asks us to get an engineer's report if we are interested in the property as the owners are happy to deal at this stage and he wanted to make sure we are serious bidders. Also asked a few times if we had mortgage approved.
We got an engineer in, the following day we visited the property, he told us there is another person in the mix whose bid is 1k over ours. At this stage I got annoyed and told him that we are actually not interested in bidding wars so it maybe better if we walked away at this stage. He said that he was pretty sure that we will get it if we upped our offer by 2k.
Am I crazy or does this sound very very suspicious?
Friends of ours also bought their house using the same guy. They, unlike me, are very happy with him. However, when they were bidding they were also in a bidding war. They went up to whatever then could afford and stopped. A month later he called them that the previous sale fell through so they got the house for their maximum offer. Call me crazy but that makes me even more suspicious...0
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