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Are all estate agents the same?

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13

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    #62
    Markx
    Registered Users Posts: 930 ✭✭✭Markx


    I've had some bizarre dealings with one particular agent in the Dublin West area.

    On a particular property:

    She implemented a sort or round-robin bidding process where you have to continually 'up' your bid in sequence with the other bidders in order to continue bidding.

    As we got down to being one of the final two bidders she told me the other party was a cash buyer. Towards the end of the process she indicated that their mortgage providers were the same as ours. I reminded her she told me they were cash buyers. She said that she considers a cash buyer to be somebody who does not need to sell a house. (Not my understanding of a cash buyer)

    She demanded to see how much we were mortgage approved for.

    After our bid had been accepted she allowed the sale to be agreed by the other bidder going directly to the seller subsequently.

    As a first time buyer, all that left me dazed and confused. The EAs hold all the cards unfortunately.


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    #63
    caew
    Closed Accounts Posts: 71 ✭✭caew


    blacklilly wrote: »
    Well the PSRA have to deal with every complaint they receive, that is their job, now whether the outcome of that is favourable to you or the complaint is unfounded is another matter.

    Personally if I was dealing with an agent who I felt was messing me around/acting unethically, I would not continue bidding and I would lodge a complaint.
    It seems that people have no issue complaining on threads like this yet will not take the formal approach and lodge a complaint. Until people start using the proper chanels these so called dodgy estate agents will remain in business.

    I put a complaint in with the PRSA and they did nothing.


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    #64
    TheDriver
    Registered Users Posts: 12,513 ✭✭✭✭TheDriver


    Orchid wrote: »
    I will also add my experience with EAS in Cork which is very similar. I have to say on our first property we dealt with a company, I won't mention the name now. Everything was spot on, very professional, quick and efficient, definitely no messing around. The sale fell through because issues with the property not the agent.

    We recently started bidding on a new house and the feel is we deal with a scumy estate agent this time around. We put a very reasonable bid just a few thousand under the asking price. We heard nothing from the EA for two weeks. When we contacted him he said that there was another offer of two thousand higher than ours. We upped our bid. No word from the estate agent again for about a week. We contacted him again and he says "I was going to call you. Last night we got another offer", again two thousand higher than ours. We upped our offer again. He calls us and asks us to get an engineer's report if we are interested in the property as the owners are happy to deal at this stage and he wanted to make sure we are serious bidders. Also asked a few times if we had mortgage approved.

    We got an engineer in, the following day we visited the property, he told us there is another person in the mix whose bid is 1k over ours. At this stage I got annoyed and told him that we are actually not interested in bidding wars so it maybe better if we walked away at this stage. He said that he was pretty sure that we will get it if we upped our offer by 2k.

    Am I crazy or does this sound very very suspicious?

    Friends of ours also bought their house using the same guy. They, unlike me, are very happy with him. However, when they were bidding they were also in a bidding war. They went up to whatever then could afford and stopped. A month later he called them that the previous sale fell through so they got the house for their maximum offer. Call me crazy but that makes me even more suspicious...

    Sounds like classic EA behaviour. Its up to you if you want to play hard ball but he is banking that you love the house and will do anything to get it.........
    Every house I have gone to has an offer on it


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    #65
    Orchid
    Registered Users Posts: 103 ✭✭Orchid


    TheDriver wrote: »
    Sounds like classic EA behaviour. Its up to you if you want to play hard ball but he is banking that you love the house and will do anything to get it.........
    Every house I have gone to has an offer on it

    Unfortunately there is nothing we can do. We do like the house so it seems he will get his way on this occasion. :mad:


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    #66
    cerastes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,601 ✭✭✭cerastes


    I dont get why a buyer would have to get the engineers report? requiring every buyer to get a report?
    wouldn't it be better if the buyer had to pay for one independant report and maybe add it to the cost of the sale, rather than everyone getting one separately?????


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    #67
    blacklilly
    Registered Users Posts: 2,687 ✭✭✭blacklilly


    cerastes wrote: »
    I dont get why a buyer would have to get the engineers report? requiring every buyer to get a report?
    wouldn't it be better if the buyer had to pay for one independant report and maybe add it to the cost of the sale, rather than everyone getting one separately?????

    A conflict of interest would arise


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    #68
    cerastes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,601 ✭✭✭cerastes


    blacklilly wrote: »
    A conflict of interest would arise

    You'd think it would be a condition of sale? so an independant organisation cant be expected or trusted to provide an impartial report on a property?
    I mean if the organisation carrying this out is an independant professional organisation, they wont want to have their reputation runined over the sale of a house?
    so instead
    every person that considers buying a particular property has to fork out a significant sum to get an engineers report? sound ridiculous really.

    conflict of interest for those carrying out reports, as it conflicts with doing 3 or 4 when 1 would do.


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    #69
    blacklilly
    Registered Users Posts: 2,687 ✭✭✭blacklilly


    cerastes wrote: »
    You'd think it would be a condition of sale? so an independant organisation cant be expected or trusted to provide an impartial report on a property?
    I mean if the organisation carrying this out is an independant professional organisation, they wont want to have their reputation runined over the sale of a house?
    so instead
    every person that considers buying a particular property has to fork out a significant sum to get an engineers report? sound ridiculous really.

    conflict of interest for those carrying out reports, as it conflicts with doing 3 or 4 when 1 would do.


    I understand your points but its just part of the due diligence a purchaser must undertake. The vendor is not going to want to highlight any building defect etc, also if the vendor was to engage the services of an engineer / surveyor and provide their report to all interested parties (potential purchasers), should an issue arise thereafter which was not noted in the report, the purchaser may legally be able to hold the vendor accountable.


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    #70
    on_my_oe
    Registered Users Posts: 991 ✭✭✭on_my_oe


    I'm frustrated by it all. One agent refused to show us a three bedroom as we are 'only a couple and there aren't enough family homes'.
    Another has advertised a number of properties in the same development in Dublin, but every time we call, the property is 'on hold' and not able to be viewed, only to reappear on Daft again a couple of weeks later. It's like a game of the hokey pokey "you put one hand in, you put one hand out, then you shake it all out.
    Too many agents expect you to come at 11am on a Tuesday and refuse to consider a Saturday or a 5.30pm weekday.. Err, don't you think if I'm financially able to buy a property, there's a high chance I might have a job??!
    I have found one nice EA, but unfortunately the only property he had I was possibly interested in was near a bar ( a plus for some, but a negative for me).

    I try not to wish bad things on people, but please Sir, can we have some more repossessions please??


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    #71
    MysticalRain
    Registered Users Posts: 1,428 ✭✭✭MysticalRain


    My landlord is in the process of selling the place I'm currently renting. Last night I had to politely remind the EA he's dealing with that it is not ok for him to let himself into my flat and bring 7 random strangers inside to view it without my permission first. The lack of professionalism and basic cop on by EA's in Ireland really does amaze me sometimes.


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    #72
    TheDriver
    Registered Users Posts: 12,513 ✭✭✭✭TheDriver


    They are really some of the worst people who prey on people's emotions, fears and hopes. I know they need to get the most for their seller but sometimes all they do it work for themselves and what suits them. Cowboys Ted, cowboys....


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    #73
    BeatNikDub
    Closed Accounts Posts: 603 ✭✭✭BeatNikDub


    I've had some bizarre dealings with one particular agent in the Dublin West area.

    On a particular property:

    She implemented a sort or round-robin bidding process where you have to continually 'up' your bid in sequence with the other bidders in order to continue bidding.

    As we got down to being one of the final two bidders she told me the other party was a cash buyer. Towards the end of the process she indicated that their mortgage providers were the same as ours. I reminded her she told me they were cash buyers. She said that she considers a cash buyer to be somebody who does not need to sell a house. (Not my understanding of a cash buyer)

    She demanded to see how much we were mortgage approved for.

    After our bid had been accepted she allowed the sale to be agreed by the other bidder going directly to the seller subsequently.

    As a first time buyer, all that left me dazed and confused. The EAs hold all the cards unfortunately.

    That's mental. That is in no way a cash offer. Also you NEVER need to show how much you are approved for. Just that you have current approval in place.
    Crikey.


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    #74
    Carbon125
    Registered Users Posts: 176 ✭✭Carbon125


    Markx wrote: »
    She demanded to see how much we were mortgage approved for.
    A transparent attempt at trying to find out how far you can be pushed...
    Never let the estate agent know what you can afford.


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    #75
    Carbon125
    Registered Users Posts: 176 ✭✭Carbon125


    By the way, every house hunter should install the Firefox extension "Property Bee".
    It is free and allows you to track all changes of a property listing on daft.ie (and a few other websites).
    You can track changes of the asking price and changes in the description of the property.
    Extremely useful.


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    #76
    Markx
    Registered Users Posts: 930 ✭✭✭Markx


    Carbon125 wrote: »
    A transparent attempt at trying to find out how far you can be pushed...
    Never let the estate agent know what you can afford.


    Yeah, that annoyed me too - that she though I was so naive that I would fall for such an obvious piece of nonsense. I'll bet she gets to see plenty of approval letters though....


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    #77
    on_my_oe
    Registered Users Posts: 991 ✭✭✭on_my_oe


    Tried to view a property last year, took five phone calls and two emails before we got to see the property, abet in a group situation. We then asked to see it again to put in an offer.. Got stood up and had to chase her for a replacement time. We did offer, got into a bidding war and withdrew.
    Same agent advertising a property in the same development, went up last week. Three phone calls, got told we could possibly see it this weekend but they would would confirm the time. Called and emailed to find out what time, "Sorry, it's now on hold". Then looking on the property register see it was updated yesterday to show the property we were intending on looking at was sold the week before Christmas! Called the agent, "Oh yes, it is sold, but definitely not before Christmas". I called Property Register who swear yes, definitely before Christmas.
    No idea who to believe, but considering a complaint to the PSR


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    #78
    cerastes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,601 ✭✭✭cerastes


    Is this all the attitude of EA's to maintain business or something like that?
    I mean jerking potential buyers around to suggest they are so busy they cant be arsed to make or turn up for arranged viewings?
    Is this a new tack?


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    #79
    TOMP
    Closed Accounts Posts: 328 ✭✭TOMP


    cerastes wrote: »
    I dont get why a buyer would have to get the engineers report? requiring every buyer to get a report?
    wouldn't it be better if the buyer had to pay for one independant report and maybe add it to the cost of the sale, rather than everyone getting one separately?????


    Because once you have actually paid some money on the property, you are more likely, in the eyes of the estate agent, go an extra few thousand, when he tells you the other bidder (who may not exist) has increased his bid.


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    #80
    cerastes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,601 ✭✭✭cerastes


    TOMP wrote: »
    Because once you have actually paid some money on the property, you are more likely, in the eyes of the estate agent, go an extra few thousand, when he tells you the other bidder (who may not exist) has increased his bid.

    I was going on the basis that the people interested had not parted with any money, otherwise they'd already be in an agreement, which sounds an even worse thing to undermine, that sounds illegal. ie agreed to buy at a certain price, signed and paid something? a deposit? and then told its gone up, is that what you mean?

    In the case of people that have parted with no money, I still consider inventing other buyers to bid against cannot be considered a reasonable practice, in effect lying in a circumstance where its difficult to prove. That has got to be some kind of consumer problem, likely the biggest purchase you will ever make, and you can get ripped so easily and so deceitfully???

    Well and good if there are other buyers, but there really needs to be a system in place so that when bids are made that they are offered to the seller as a legal requirement, that then anyone entering a bidding process (or contest) can genuinely see or be proved after its over (possibly) that they were being actually bid against instead of spurious bids by the agent themselves.
    Squeezing a few thousand extra out of the buyer doesnt really add significant extra value to the seller as the sale may be lost, the EA, will still only make a small amount more (what are EA percentages these days?) again at the possibility of making no percent if the seller just has had enough.


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    #81
    ashleyL
    Registered Users Posts: 5 ✭ashleyL


    I spoke to a nice lady down at the PSR and she told me that they can go back and check an estate agents records up to 5 years, to see if there has been any malpractice. She told me that they took a very dim view of rogue agents hiking up the price with fictitious bids and that the penalties were very severe, she quoted €250,000 fine.


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    #82
    cerastes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,601 ✭✭✭cerastes


    ashleyL wrote: »
    I spoke to a nice lady down at the PSR and she told me that they can go back and check an estate agents records up to 5 years, to see if there has been any malpractice. She told me that they took a very dim view of rogue agents hiking up the price with fictitious bids and that the penalties were very severe, she quoted €250,000 fine.

    How would they know of fictitious bids? it'd be easy to get around, they could have a number of interested parties and be at the same thing with them all, but obviously worse if you were bidding against no one.

    and what would the come back for someone that purchased, given they have parted with money?
    or if someone had already spent money on engineers reports which assumes you have an interest in pursuing further and then had to walk away by having increasing fake bids against you.


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    #83
    ashleyL
    Registered Users Posts: 5 ✭ashleyL


    Well it's not so easy to fake or scam a potential buyer as some may think. You see, many agents ask prospective buyers to show that they have the funds available to complete the purchase etc. For example, I was asked to show that I had the funds available to buy the property which I was after. Luckily for me, I have a good friend that just happens to be a millionaire bank rolling my project so proof of funds was no problem. The estate agent told me that there were other bidders and that I would have to bid against them. No problem, I just simply bid €20,000 higher than 'everybody' else. Of course, nobody came back in to 'bid against me as without meaning to sound flash, money is no object, and I let the estate agent know this. Now, of course when I finally get to exchange of contracts day, I will inform the agent that I will be contacting the PSR AGAIN, and THEY will demand to see proof of all the other 'bids', times, dates, names, etc..and most importantly, THEIR PROOF OF FUNDS. So you see, it's not so easy to scam a buyer, especially someone as smart as me.


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    #84
    Valentine1
    Registered Users Posts: 434 ✭✭Valentine1


    I never understand why people are so surprised EAs don't help purchasers. They work for the Vendor and their job is to extract as much money from buyers as they possibly can. They aren't messengers who just relay bids and rejections or acceptances. If letting you stew about your offer for a week will get you to up your offer, its their job to do it.

    the Estate agent is not your friend even thought hey may act it. they are the seller, they are your adversary, treat everything they say as designed to get more money from you and you will at least know where you stand.


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    #85
    blacklilly
    Registered Users Posts: 2,687 ✭✭✭blacklilly


    ashleyL wrote: »
    Well it's not so easy to fake or scam a potential buyer as some may think. You see, many agents ask prospective buyers to show that they have the funds available to complete the purchase etc. For example, I was asked to show that I had the funds available to buy the property which I was after. Luckily for me, I have a good friend that just happens to be a millionaire bank rolling my project so proof of funds was no problem. The estate agent told me that there were other bidders and that I would have to bid against them. No problem, I just simply bid €20,000 higher than 'everybody' else. Of course, nobody came back in to 'bid against me as without meaning to sound flash, money is no object, and I let the estate agent know this. Now, of course when I finally get to exchange of contracts day, I will inform the agent that I will be contacting the PSR AGAIN, and THEY will demand to see proof of all the other 'bids', times, dates, names, etc..and most importantly, THEIR PROOF OF FUNDS. So you see, it's not so easy to scam a buyer, especially someone as smart as me.

    It's just my opinion but I highly suspect the above is a big load of bs


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    #86
    yankinlk
    Registered Users Posts: 2,740 ✭✭✭yankinlk


    Valentine1 wrote: »
    I never understand why people are so surprised EAs don't help purchasers. They work for the Vendor and their job is to extract as much money from buyers as they possibly can.

    You are only half right. They are out for themselves only im afraid. I have been on both sides and i know from experience that when they work for the seller, and bids are few and far between, they use high pressure tactics to try and get the seller to accept ANYTHING - even when it is NOT in the best interest of the seller.


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    #87
    cerastes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,601 ✭✭✭cerastes


    blacklilly wrote: »
    It's just my opinion but I highly suspect the above is a big load of bs

    :eek::rolleyes:


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    #88
    ashleyL
    Registered Users Posts: 5 ✭ashleyL


    blacklilly wrote: »
    It's just my opinion but I highly suspect the above is a big load of bs

    Well you're entitled to your opinion, only time will tell if I'm telling a load of bs as you so eloquently put it. Jealousy is a horrible thing isn't it!


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    #89
    snakeoilsales
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18 ✭snakeoilsales


    lucanone wrote: »
    looking to buy a property in the Celbridge/Maynooth area. I have made and offer to the estate agent on a property and he said he would check with his client.

    I received no word back after days so decided to ring him but no answer and left a message.

    got a call back saying offer rejected so decided to put in our last possible offer. he said he would reply in the morning and that was days ago.

    firstly i have my suspicions whether he contacted the client at all and was just trying to get me to lift my offer.

    but now no response at all...should i contact him again or is he just letting me stew.

    I'm new to all this as first time buyer but feel like I'm being messed around,

    well known agent in this area too.

    any advice what to do would be great.

    Thank you in advance for any help.:)

    Trust me, you are being messed around. Give your offer - specify a time limit - and walk away. Very simple. Walk away.

    If you are not sure that the owners have received the offer, put in in an envelope under their door


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    #90
    MadMagpie
    Registered Users Posts: 7 ✭MadMagpie


    I a have a similar situation, I have been after a house on the market over a year where i was the only interested party in months... then a new bidder came in and I increased my offer a couple of times but had the feeling the estate agents second bidder was not for real so stuck on my last offer and wouldn't raise a 3rd time. The agent said he would let me know if the sale fell through and moved it to sale agreed.... in this situation could it be that the agent is playing through the bluff as he knows i am very interested but my offer is well under asking price and could he come back to me in a couple of weeks?

    Very difficult dealing with these guys as they are as trust worthy as a politician!

    I have the funds to raise a higher bid but not sure whether to hold and call the bluff or ring him back and increase my offer which may be too late


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    #91
    cerastes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,601 ✭✭✭cerastes


    MadMagpie wrote: »
    I a have a similar situation, I have been after a house on the market over a year where i was the only interested party in months... then a new bidder came in and I increased my offer a couple of times but had the feeling the estate agents second bidder was not for real so stuck on my last offer and wouldn't raise a 3rd time. The agent said he would let me know if the sale fell through and moved it to sale agreed.... in this situation could it be that the agent is playing through the bluff as he knows i am very interested but my offer is well under asking price and could he come back to me in a couple of weeks?

    Very difficult dealing with these guys as they are as trust worthy as a politician!

    I have the funds to raise a higher bid but not sure whether to hold and call the bluff or ring him back and increase my offer which may be too late


    Id have gone to the seller direct if it was on that long, good to not make a third offer, but Im not sure if Id have done the second one given it was up for sale, walk away and contact the seller, I wouldnt contact the EA, no email, phone or nothing.


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