The Running Master

Stazza

theboyblunder wrote: »

There is also this from the forum charter:

'........Be aware that if you do post times - and in particular fast times or remarkable improvements - you may be asked to provide some proof. Likewise if you claim to have coached elite athletes. So please stick to the facts!'

Would it help if you provided proof to someone well known on here but discreet. Say a mod? You could provide proof to them that you coach these people, and they affirm to us without mentioning names on a public forum?

hahaha.

ecoli

theboyblunder wrote: »

There is also this from the forum charter:

'........Be aware that if you do post times - and in particular fast times or remarkable improvements - you may be asked to provide some proof. Likewise if you claim to have coached elite athletes. So please stick to the facts!'

Would it help if you provided proof to someone well known on here but discreet. Say a mod? You could provide proof to them that you coach these people, and they affirm to us without mentioning names on a public forum?

To be fair he has posted results and his association with Jake was verified sufficiently so IMO this aspect of the charter has been dealt with sufficiently.

drquirky

ecoli wrote: »

To be fair he has posted results and his association with Jake was verified sufficiently so IMO this aspect of the charter has been dealt with sufficiently.

To be fair - the big reveal of the size of the "Stazza Stable" is a new claim and one that certainly exceeds the scope of his others. It kind of all depends where you define "elite" but I don't have to tell anyone that the next level up from Jake would certainly involve some names many of us would know.

I'm pretty interested in this EPO concoction though- does that mean when I smoke any of the Stazza Stable (besides Jake of course but including the man himself) that I'll be arousing the suspicions of the drug police?

ecoli

drquirky wrote: »

To be fair - the big reveal of the size of the "Stazza Stable" is a new claim and one that certainly exceeds the scope of his others. It kind of all depends where you define "elite" but I don't have to tell anyone that the next level up from Jake would certainly involve some names many of us would know.

True but the the charter rule is there to prevent trolls from claiming they are Bekele just popping in to say hi. There is a bit of benefit of the doubt given to posters once they satisfy initial questions. After this it up to posters to make their own opinion on certain claims. Caveat Emptor.

drquirky wrote: »

I'm pretty interested in this EPO concoction though- does that mean when I smoke any of the Stazza Stable (besides Jake of course but including the man himself) that I'll be arousing the suspicions of the drug police?

Yes but I have a contigency plan for that;

- Frozen bag of clean urine and blood

failing that

- Your new Leinster medal is buried in an undisclosed location
- I have a backdated approved transfer form to Bro's Pearse
- tRR has been selling his body on the side (not to me) to put away enough to flee the country and start a new life

theboyblunder

Stazza wrote: »

hahaha.

Please dont think this is in any way personal. Skepticism is an important part of participating in any internet discussion. None of us have heard of you before - none of us (apart from jake krong) know you for any length of time.

You seem like a nice guy from what ive read; knowledgeable and generous with your time.

Youve claimed you advise a number of elites. A lot of people (myself included) are going to listen to what you say (and you seem happy to share what you know) a lot more if that is true. It would be fantastic to have an elite 'coach' (or whatever term you prefer) posting here. You might say that you dont care if we listen/believe you, but then why post? To advise the gullible? Happy are those who have not seen but yet believe?

I think there is nothing wrong with asking you to demonstrate it, and if you dont back a claim like that up, well then nobody should believe you.

This aint a witch-hunt, or an expose: I for one really want you to be the real deal.

digger2d2

ecoli wrote: »

I

- tRR has been selling his body in the side (not to me) to put away enough to flee the country and start a new life

That should get him as far as Wales so

TRR

digger2d2 wrote: »

That should get him as far as Wales so

Yeah but it would be first class on Stenna line all the way

Mrs TRR jokes that we would be screwed if we were dependent on me going on the game. I'd end up not charging and actually paying punters myself for additional kinky stuff. We'd be out of pocket by the end of it!

Stazza

theboyblunder wrote: »

Please dont think this is in any way personal. Skepticism is an important part of participating in any internet discussion. None of us have heard of you before - none of us (apart from jake krong) know you for any length of time.

You seem like a nice guy from what ive read; knowledgeable and generous with your time.

Youve claimed you advise a number of elites. A lot of people (myself included) are going to listen to what you say (and you seem happy to share what you know) a lot more if that is true. It would be fantastic to have an elite 'coach' (or whatever term you prefer) posting here. You might say that you dont care if we listen/believe you, but then why post? To advise the gullible? Happy are those who have not seen but yet believe?

I think there is nothing wrong with asking you to demonstrate it, and if you dont back a claim like that up, well then nobody should believe you.

This aint a witch-hunt, or an expose: I for one really want you to be the real deal.

Ok, I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt. I’m sure you’re a nice guy too. For very good reasons, I’m not going to give you the names of the guys I help out/advise. The reasons are valid on a personal level and a ‘professional’ level. I will, however, when the time is right, speak to two of the runners and ask if they will come on board in the same way as Jake has. FYI, both of the runners have run faster than 2:18 for the marathon. The fastest guy I’ve worked with has a pb of 2:12 – I wasn’t his only advisor: I worked alongside a 2:17 guy. That’s the best I can do for you. And for TRR, I will explain how I ended up coaching ’elite’ runners etc.

As it stands, I’ve posted the results of one race that I ran when I was 35 and I’ve brought Jake to the Boards. The race I ran was only 33:17 for 10k on a hilly course. It’s not a great time and even though it’s a long way off my pb, it’s verifiable and it puts me up there with some of the best on here (Quirky and yourself included). If you feel that you need more races to verify my running credentials, then I will deliver. In my book, that gives me as much right, as you guys to dish out advice. On top of that, I think Jake’s pb’s for the half and the marathon would put him in the top 5-10 runners in Ireland (current runners, not all time). Jake and I discuss his training, I draft the schedules - as you saw on here - and he does the business. We tweak some things depending on what’s going on in his life and how he’s responding to the training etc. Given the standard that Jake’s at, I think that qualifies me to speak with authority about distance running; maybe not as much as Canova.

Now, that doesn’t mean that I know everything and that I’m the new running Messiah. I’m just the Running Master. I’ve picked up things on here from many people, especially ecoli – his cut down sessions are great and, in fact, I switched a 4x1 mile session that Jake was scheduled to do last week to a variation on one of ecoli’s sessions. The workout had a higher volume and was more endurance focused but the idea was the same. This allowed Jake to get in good volume and pace. This is one of the reasons why I’m here – to learn.

Like you guys, I like talking about training etc and I love to see people improving; I want to see you improve and I think the stuff you’re doing now is great: those 400’s along with slowing down your daily runs will help massively.

Here’s the deal: it’s no big deal. Relax. Enjoy your training. If I get under your skin, use it as fuel for your training. When you’re hurting in training and those little voices are saying, slow down - don’t. Think, if I hang in here, I’ll be able to shove it up Stazza. Then when you beat me in race, my only excuse will be my age.:pac::pac::pac:

TRR

Stazza wrote: »

And for TRR, I will explain how I ended up coaching ’elite’ runners etc.

As it stands, I’ve posted the results of one race that I ran when I was 35 and I’ve brought Jake to the Boards. The race I ran was only 33:17 for 10k on a hilly course. It’s not a great time and even though it’s a long way off my pb, it’s verifiable and it puts me up there with some of the best on here (Quirky and yourself included). If you feel that you need more races to verify my running credentials, then I will deliver. In my book, that gives me as much right, as you guys to dish out advice. On top of that, I think Jake’s pb’s for the half and the marathon would put him in the top 5-10 runners in Ireland (current runners, not all time). Jake and I discuss his training, I draft the schedules - as you saw on here - and he does the business. We tweak some things depending on what’s going on in his life and how he’s responding to the training etc. Given the standard that Jake’s at, I think that qualifies me to speak with authority about distance running; maybe not as much as Canova.

Were you answering me there? No what I meant was how did you start coaching elite guys. Like did you start coaching a guy you were friends with and did it snowball from there or did it stem from a club etc. That's all I was asking.

By the way the best running coach I ever had was an incredibly mediocre runner. Never won anything or ran fast times. The guy is a legend though. For about a decade he essentially took the schools football team, identified the distance guys and turned them into competitive xc teams culminating in one of the teams winning the national junior title (and an individual gold, I was part of neither). Good runners don't necessarily make good coaches and vice versa

Stazza

TRR wrote: »

Were you answering me there? No what I meant was how did you start coaching elite guys. Like did you start coaching a guy you were friends with and did it snowball from there or did it stem from a club etc. That's all I was asking.

By the way the best running coach I ever had was an incredibly mediocre runner. Never won anything or ran fast times. The guy is a legend though. For about a decade he essentially took the schools football team, identified the distance guys and turned them into competitive xc teams culminating in one of the teams winning the national junior title (and an individual gold, I was part of neither). Good runners don't necessarily make good coaches and vice versa

Sorry, I should've made it clearer. Yeah, in the bit you highlighted I was answering the bit where you asked if I could bring some of the guys on board. I also thought that might go some way to assuaging the concerns of both DQ and Tbb.

The bit about times and races was more general. But I totally agree about coaches and running. Most of the good coaches I've known haven't been great runners.

theboyblunder

TRR wrote: »

Were you answering me there? No what I meant was how did you start coaching elite guys. Like did you start coaching a guy you were friends with and did it snowball from there or did it stem from a club etc. That's all I was asking.

By the way the best running coach I ever had was an incredibly mediocre runner. Never won anything or ran fast times. The guy is a legend though. For about a decade he essentially took the schools football team, identified the distance guys and turned them into competitive xc teams culminating in one of the teams winning the national junior title (and an individual gold, I was part of neither). Good runners don't necessarily make good coaches and vice versa

+1 plenty of runners slower than me on here who know more about running than I do.

@Stazza - OK, i'll take it on trust for the moment, given that Jake seems to be real and one would want to be pretty disturbed to make up the 2:12/2:17 and other details if they are false! It would be great if you could bring these others either on here or else get their premission to name them (its running after all - not Uranium enrichment )

Id say again - its definitely not personal. Im not a grudge holder, and even if I was, there isnt an open vacancy for the position 'nemesis' until Nov '14 - DrQuirky has that sown up 'till 10 secs after the finish of the Dublin Marathon

ecoli

Stazza wrote: »

Now, that doesn’t mean that I know everything and that I’m the new running Messiah. I’m just the Running Master. I’ve picked up things on here from many people, especially ecoli – his cut down sessions are great and, in fact, I switched a 4x1 mile session that Jake was scheduled to do last week to a variation on one of ecoli’s sessions. The workout had a higher volume and was more endurance focused but the idea was the same. This allowed Jake to get in good volume and pace. This is one of the reasons why I’m here – to learn.

Sadly I can't take credit for that one. Taken straight from one of the athletes I was doing event massage for last summer at Morton Games

http://www.runnersworld.com/elite-runners/back-to-basics

Coming from vastly different spectrums but it fit in well as a transition session for me from the longer training.

BeepBeep67

TRR wrote: »

Yeah but it would be first class on Stella all the way

FYP

Stazza

ecoli wrote: »

Sadly I can't take credit for that one. Taken straight from one of the athletes I was doing event massage for last summer at Morton Games

http://www.runnersworld.com/elite-runners/back-to-basics

Coming from vastly different spectrums but it fit in well as a transition session for me from the longer training.

This was the session that I meant:

3x(600, 400, 300, 200 (2 min jog rec) ) 4 min between sets

and this is how I developed it to suit Jake’s needs:

8 x 600m in 1:46.2 avg (5K, 90sec rec, target ~1:47) + 6 x 400m in 67.9 avg (3K, 90sec rec, target ~68-69) + 4 x 200m in 31.7 avg (1500, 60sec rec, target ~32-33).

I dropped the sets and worked on setting up the fatigue through 4800m’s worth of work @ 5k pace and then moved straight into 2400m volume @ 3k pace – this added extra fatigue - and then the final 4x200m off 60 sec @ 1500m pace. Good volume @ good paces off shortish recoveries. 4:55 pace should feel comfortable after this…

Stazza

theboyblunder wrote: »

+1 plenty of runners slower than me on here who know more about running than I do.

@Stazza - OK, i'll take it on trust for the moment, given that Jake seems to be real and one would want to be pretty disturbed to make up the 2:12/2:17 and other details if they are false! It would be great if you could bring these others either on here or else get their premission to name them (its running after all - not Uranium enrichment )

Id say again - its definitely not personal. Im not a grudge holder, and even if I was, there isnt an open vacancy for the position 'nemesis' until Nov '14 - DrQuirky has that sown up 'till 10 secs after the finish of the Dublin Marathon

Thanks for your conditional/probationary seal of approval Jake is definitely real. Agree about the disturbed 2:12/2:17 and other details. Just to clarify something - I made a mistake - the 2:17 guy has a pb of 2:13:XX; when I was being mentored by him, he ran 2:17. Although at times it seems personal, I'll trust you for the moment that it isn't

drquirky

Stazza- I think it's tone over anything else. You came in here, called yourself the Running Master and made it seem to many as you "knew it all".

Obviously you are just as entitled as any of us to give advise and it's never been about how fast you are/were - but when you announce you're gonna break an Irish record, it will get peoples back up if they've never seen you at a race etc...

That said I think you're probably a decent guy and your stories are interesting- I do look forward to seeing you race and you can rest assured if the results aren't there I'll pull no punches over shunts/ shuffles/ cheeky triples etc...

Best of luck going forward and I look forward to racing you! (Although there are many faster than me on here)

TRR

Getting back to the journalist contacting you. What was that all about? And why do you think someone was trying to play a joke?

jakek

Stazza wrote: »

Jake and I discuss his training, I draft the schedules - as you saw on here - and he does the business. We tweak some things depending on what’s going on in his life and how he’s responding to the training etc. Given the standard that Jake’s at, I think that qualifies me to speak with authority about distance running; maybe not as much as Canova.

Now, that doesn’t mean that I know everything and that I’m the new running Messiah. I’m just the Running Master. I’ve picked up things on here from many people, especially ecoli – his cut down sessions are great and, in fact, I switched a 4x1 mile session that Jake was scheduled to do last week to a variation on one of ecoli’s sessions. The workout had a higher volume and was more endurance focused but the idea was the same. This allowed Jake to get in good volume and pace. This is one of the reasons why I’m here – to learn.

Like you guys, I like talking about training etc and I love to see people improving; I want to see you improve and I think the stuff you’re doing now is great: those 400’s along with slowing down your daily runs will help massively.

Here’s the deal: it’s no big deal. Relax. Enjoy your training. If I get under your skin, use it as fuel for your training. When you’re hurting in training and those little voices are saying, slow down - don’t. Think, if I hang in here, I’ll be able to shove it up Stazza. Then when you beat me in race, my only excuse will be my age.:pac::pac::pac:

Well said, and it's all the truth from my perspective. Stazza and I fire off e-mails several times a week, talking shop and occasionally changing up some workouts. The modification he suggested last week was great - and I think the track cutdown workouts are something I'll use a lot more in the next month. There is not necessarily some master plan... we are both learning as we go through this process. That makes it pretty fun! I feel like I'm learning a lot at the same time - my "first drafts" look a lot better than they used to :-)

Stazza

drquirky wrote: »

Stazza- I think it's tone over anything else. You came in here, called yourself the Running Master and made it seem to many as you "knew it all".

Obviously you are just as entitled as any of us to give advise and it's never been about how fast you are/were - but when you announce you're gonna break an Irish record, it will get peoples back up if they've never seen you at a race etc...

That said I think you're probably a decent guy and your stories are interesting- I do look forward to seeing you race and you can rest assured if the results aren't there I'll pull no punches over shunts/ shuffles/ cheeky triples etc...

Best of luck going forward and I look forward to racing you! (Although there are many faster than me on here)

Looking forward to racing you too. I wouldn't expect you to pull your punches but before you throw any more consider this:

" An ironic tone depends upon a contrast between what the writer's words seem to say and what they really mean. To grasp the true meaning we must read between the lines." i.e. the subtext.

So when you say it's all about tone, you're nearly right. I think it's more about understanding ironic tone, especially when it comes to the title of my blog and the tone/voice I utilise for this blog and other running blogs. You should see what I'm like on writing blogs

Now, furnished with this new tool, if you go back through my posts you might find that the penny drops. A good place to start is the Tralee Marathon Race Report - AMK got it.

And on the Irish record, there's no irony there - I'm serious. Although my goals are shifting, the Irish M45 5k record - rather the time or thereabouts - is integral to my goals this year and next. I'm not running twice a day for fun.

I hope there's nothing in what I've just written that might be construed as vitriolic/sarcastic etc. if you take it that way, you've taken it the wrong way.

Please stop beating me up on Friday nights. I just wanna be your f[w]end; I'll let you beat in a [w]unning [w}ace. (This is meant to be humourous:).)

Stazza

TRR wrote: »

Getting back to the journalist contacting you. What was that all about? And why do you think someone was trying to play a joke?

I'm just waiting for a message/email and then I'll be in a better position to explain. I'm still not 100% sure what/who sparked the interest.

drquirky

Stazza wrote: »

So when you say it's all about tone, you're nearly right. I think it's more about understanding ironic tone, especially when it comes to the title of my blog and the tone/voice I utilise for this blog and other running blogs. You should see what I'm like on writing blogs

No. I am right. This is the kind of stuff that comes off as completely patronising. I have a full understanding of ironic tone and it can be unbelievably condescending; to wit- correcting people and telling them that they are "nearly right".

Can you not see that the passage I have quoted above is pretty much calling me a ****ing idiot for not being able to "get" your nuanced writing style?

“Humor brings insight and tolerance. Irony brings a deeper and less friendly understanding.”

Stazza

Wednesday 30th April

p.m. 4 miles shakeout

(14)

Thursday 1st May

a.m. 5 miles ez.
p.m. 6 miles steady

(11)

As expected, a bit achy and tired on Thursday after Wednesday's LT effort. But took both of the runs slow enough to facilitate recovery.

Stazza

TRR wrote: »

Getting back to the journalist contacting you. What was that all about? And why do you think someone was trying to play a joke?

I feel a bit of a muppet posting this but I did say I would, so I will.

I received an email from an ‘English sports journo,’ saying that somebody from a social network site had suggested that they look into my log because of some of the stuff I’ve posted etc. They went on to say that they’d read my log and that they’d be keen to talk about a number of things. Brain went into overdrive and I agreed. We did the interview over Skype. The fella seemed bang on.

Although it went great – it was a bit awkward at times. I expressed some reservations because of some ‘stuff’. But that was all cool. Went through the whole shebang. Past, present and more importantly, talked at length about a project I’ve been working on for some time. They said they’d get involved and a whole load of other stuff.

Anyway, interview finished and I was buzzing. Thought to myself somebody had tried to turn me over and it had backfired on them and worked in my favour - as I posted.

I contacted a colleague about the project I’m working on and told them. He said that it didn’t add up because it didn’t make sense how the journo would have got his hands on my email address – penny dropped. He contacted the 'real' journo and it turns out, somebody had my pants down, got me to touch my toes and royally examined my prostate gland. Still can’t fathom how the prankster got my email address but it’s done now.

Although it’s funny and was a great prank, I’m hoping the person uses the info with some degree of sensitivity. I’ll just have to suck it up and wait for the inevitable.

Fair-play to the guy – had me a treat.

Krusty_Clown

That doesn't sound like a prank. If not valid, it sounds like a bit of a dickhead thing to do. But you have his Skype details, right? Can't you just get in touch with him again?

Stazza

It’s out of my hands now – somebody else is dealing with it.

theboyblunder

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

That doesn't sound like a prank. If not valid, it sounds like a bit of a dickhead thing to do. But you have his Skype details, right? Can't you just get in touch with him again?

+1 sounds bizarre to me. A lot of effort to achieve very little if it was a prank? As KC says, d*ckhead behaviour if not real.

He wasnt dressed as a sheik by any chance?

smmoore79

Someone with too much time on their hands obviously pulling that prank. I don't even see the funny side of pretending to be a journo interviewer. Surely the joke would be them telling you it was a wind-up at the end?! Anyways, Id chalk it down as a weird experience if I were you Stazza and get back to the daily grind of training and coaching and aiming for that Irish masters 5k pb.


ps it wasn't me

pa4

Why anyone would waste their time doing something so stupid is beyond me! Who did they claim to be?

Stazza

Thursday 1st May
a.m. 6 miles ez – tired.
p.m. 6 miles ez.

(12)

Friday 2nd May 4
a.m. 7.5 miles ez with Paddy the Kenyan.
p.m. 6 miles ez.

(13.5)

Saturday 3rd May
a.m. 5 miles ez.
p.m. 6 miles ez.

(11)

Sunday 4th May
a.m. 3 miles w/u incl drills and 6x100m strides - 5x800m @ 3k pace off 2 mins – 2 miles c/d.
p.m. 4 miles shakeout. G came with me on her bike.

(11.5)

The last time I did 5x800m I ran:
2:34 -2:33 - 2:35 - 2:34 - 2:33 Av – 2:34 (5:08 pace).

The plan today was to average 2:32 and to improve by 10 seconds on the overall session. Here’s what happened:
2:31 – 2:31 – 2:32 – 2:33 – 2:32 – Av pace 2:32. (5:04 pace)

Hit the average pace of 2:32 and improved the overall time for the session by 10 secs. So I hit the desired targets and considering the wind today, it wasn’t too bad. That said, I’m disappointed with the fourth rep: concentration was poor. And the final rep doesn’t tell the full story. Again concentration was poor and I had to work hard over the final 200m to bring the rep back into line.

Pleased with the way things are progressing and I’m happy that I’ve got the balance right with the training.

Stazza

Monday 5th May
a.m. 6 miles rec run.
p.m. 6 miles ez.

(12)

Tuesday 6th May
a.m. 6 miles ez
p.m. 6 miles steady.

(12)

Wednesday 7th May
a.m. 7.5 miles ez with Paddy the Kenyan.
p.m. 5.5 miles with 5x30 sec strides.

(12)

Fully recovered from Sunday’s workout. Next workout is 4x1600m off 90 secs @ 5k pace. Had hoped to do this tomorrow but too much going on, so it'll have to wait until Saturday. Hopefully I'll hit 5:16’s, which will be a 4 sec per mile improvement on the last time I did the session and a 16 second improvement overall. Might not work out that way, but we’ll see.