Power Meter Brands

doozerie

Cond0r wrote: »

How much is it to have the bearings replaced by an authorised dealer? Do you know of some in Dublin?

The only official service centre that I am aware of off-hand is Paligap in the UK. They seem to charge £50 to service the wheel, plus shipping charge of £19.50 for Ireland, plus parts.

Borderfox

Inquitus wrote: »

How do you use it with the Xperia Z1 please? I know the phone is Ant+, as is my Galaxy S5, but last I looked there weren't any apps that took any useful advantage of the fact, this was a while ago though. Thanks.

Ant+ radio service from Google play and map my ride uses ant aswell as bluetooth to gather from sensors

Cond0r

fago wrote: »

This seems like a very tempting price - just over €500. Proven technology etc so less of the risk of stages http://www.wiggle.co.uk/cycleops-powertap-pro-hub-only/

Anyone seen better price?

This is a great price, but I just noticed that the Shimano freehub on it won't take an 11speed cassette. The 11speed freehub is another €86. BAH!

fago

I can justify getting a PM. I can't justify upgrading perfectly functioning 6 year old 10 speed dura ace groupset to 11 speed....

Ryath

mossym wrote: »

definitely not only in a compact, my standard version just arrived last night, 130 bcd, standard praxxis chain rings, rotor 3d cranks.

just had a look on the site and the 130 standard is still available in the rotor 3d

How are you finding the praxis rings any noticeable difference with the shifting? I'd be tempted to add them on when I finally have the funds again for a P2Max

Cond0r

There's mention of the p2m s-type being available for the Shimano 4-arm crank, but I can't find one that's compatible - anyone know more?

clog

Cond0r wrote: »

There's mention of the p2m s-type being available for the Shimano 4-arm crank, but I can't find one that's compatible - anyone know more?

The crank itself can not be used with a p2m s type as the shimano crank and 4 arm spyder is one piece. What they have developed is a 4 hole p2m spyder which will work with shimano 4 hole chainrings.

See rotor crank with 4 hole spyder and Dura Ace rings in DCrainmakers review

http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2013/08/power2max-releases-compatibility.html

Cond0r

clog wrote: »

The crank itself can not be used with a p2m s type as the shimano crank and 4 arm spyder is one piece. What they have developed is a 4 hole p2m spyder which will work with shimano 4 hole chainrings.

See rotor crank with 4 hole spyder and Dura Ace rings in DCrainmakers review

http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2013/08/power2max-releases-compatibility.html

Ah, that makes sense. Alas, I don't see the 4-bolt version on their site.

lennymc

Sarz91 wrote: »

What spoke option did you end up going with? Do you primarily train on them or race and train? Looking at getting a set as I just love using Campag.

sorry - only saw this now. Mavic open pro rim with dt swiss spokes. 28 hole. The freehub on the powertap is very easy to change and it is available in shimano or campag. The latest G3 powertap hub is available here for 749 as part of a wheel set and is about the best value (IMHO) for powertaps that's out there at the moment. I have raced and trained through a couple of winters with mine. Also raced some cx with it after a quick change of tyres.....

Sarz91

lennymc wrote: »

sorry - only saw this now. Mavic open pro rim with dt swiss spokes. 28 hole. The freehub on the powertap is very easy to change and it is available in shimano or campag. The latest G3 powertap hub is available here for 749 as part of a wheel set and is about the best value (IMHO) for powertaps that's out there at the moment. I have raced and trained through a couple of winters with mine. Also raced some cx with it after a quick change of tyres.....

Cheers mate. From what you linked it seems a Campag free hub option is ~€250 more than Shimano or SRAM. That seem right?

clog

Sarz91 wrote: »

Cheers mate. From what you linked it seems a Campag free hub option is ~€250 more than Shimano or SRAM. That seem right?

Looks as if Powermeter24 won't have the Campag set in stock anyway for a 2-3 weeks.

They seem to be doing a special on the shimano stock that they have. That is a very good price for a pair of wheels as you don't need to factor in any other costs.

Willo2011

Anyone else got a Stages and finding it good?

I did a decent bit of research before I got mine. Cost was the main factor in me choosing it but I also read up a little bit on it first. I saw a review on road.cc website that clinched it for me (fooking boards won't let me link it as I've only 11 posts so far!)

I did a bit of digging around before I got one off swimcyclerun.com. Can't remember what is cost me now but it was about 1/2 the price of the Garmin Vectors (with a 10% discount using the code Race14 which I got from another thread). I got it in June and its worked perfectly since I got it. I had read that some people had problems with the early batches of the Stages, mine was manufactured in May 2014 and no problems with it so far training 4 times a week, some sessions on the turbo and others around Wicklow.

I ended up buying the Power Meter Handbook by Joe Friel and I think my training is definitely more focused/specific now. If you wanna train really scientifically then power meters are a good investment. Can't wait to get a good winter using it and see my numbers improve (hopefuly!)

Inquitus

Willo2011 wrote: »

Snip

I have had my Stages over 2 months now and about 2500km, hasn't missed a beat so far, very happy with it.

mossym

Ryath wrote: »

How are you finding the praxis rings any noticeable difference with the shifting? I'd be tempted to add them on when I finally have the funds again for a P2Max

definitely much crisper shifting than with the chain rings that were on it, FSA i presume as it was an FSA crankset that was on it.

soon as you see them you can see the quality in them. very impressed, the reviews i read before hand were all very postive, and i'm not seeing anything that says they are wrong

mossym

i see garmin are releasing a single pedal version of the vectors at a noticably reduced cost to the two pedal version

http://www.bikeradar.com/road/news/article/garmin-vector-s-left-pedal-power-meter-42140/

Inquitus

mossym wrote: »

i see garmin are releasing a single pedal version of the vectors at a noticably reduced cost to the two pedal version

http://www.bikeradar.com/road/news/article/garmin-vector-s-left-pedal-power-meter-42140/

A sensible move, I am not convinced L/R Balance is a required metric, and the ability to have power now and upgrade tomorrow to L/R should you wish to is definitely very attractive.

thekooman

looks good. priced similar to stages as well but i would think more flexible for moving between bikes

delynet

Another option

http://www.bikeradar.com/road/news/article/xpedo-launches-new-thrust-e-power-meter-pedals-42234/

• US$1,100
• Electronics for the Thrust E pedals are located within the confines of the pedal body.

We must be getting nearer to power meters for the masses

mossym

delynet wrote: »

Another option

http://www.bikeradar.com/road/news/article/xpedo-launches-new-thrust-e-power-meter-pedals-42234/

• US$1,100
• Electronics for the Thrust E pedals are located within the confines of the pedal body.

We must be getting nearer to power meters for the masses

Not at that price I reckon. A guess and I'd say the 300 mark would be the upper limit

Plus I saw a pic of those that made them look really bulky. Not what I'd want in a pedal

pprendeville

Agreed, they are very bulky alright. Having switched to Speedplay Zero during the summer I wouldn't fancy going back to anything else. Hopefully Brim Brothers will have an announcement on 10 Sept from Interbike about their pm. I wonder will Stages release a new model soon which might result in a price drop maybe. How long are they out at this stage?

mloc123

pprendeville wrote: »

Agreed, they are very bulky alright. Having switched to Speedplay Zero during the summer I wouldn't fancy going back to anything else. Hopefully Brim Brothers will have an announcement on 10 Sept from Interbike about their pm. I wonder will Stages release a new model soon which might result in a price drop maybe. How long are they out at this stage?

Brim Brothers are still in development? Vapourware.

BenEadir

mloc123 wrote: »

Brim Brothers are still in development? Vapourware.

I heard they will be launching at Interbike. I guess we'll know very soon!!

Ben

godtabh

I've seen stages on sale with 20% off lately. New versions must be on the horizon

FrankGrimes

Just received a Power2Max. First impression was ' holy grail this box feels heavy'. Unit looks good but maybe i missed an option for them to assemble the unit and chain rings. It's for TTs and float raced so weight not so much a concern but though i haven't weighted it yet vs my other cranks, it does seem surprisingly heavy. Look forward to getting out going though

Diarmuid

FrankGrimes wrote: »

Just received a Power2Max. First impression was ' holy grail this box feels heavy'. Unit looks good but maybe i missed an option for them to assemble the unit and chain rings. It's for TTs and float raced so weight not so much a concern but though i haven't weighted it yet vs my other cranks, it does seem surprisingly heavy. Look forward to getting out going though

The type S adds between 125g and 140g to the weight of the crank

mossym

FrankGrimes wrote: »

Just received a Power2Max. First impression was ' holy grail this box feels heavy'. Unit looks good but maybe i missed an option for them to assemble the unit and chain rings. It's for TTs and float raced so weight not so much a concern but though i haven't weighted it yet vs my other cranks, it does seem surprisingly heavy. Look forward to getting out going though

really? i was surprised when mine arrived as i thought it would be heavier.

what option did you go for? rotor? gossamer?

Leroy42

Willo2011 wrote: »

Anyone else got a Stages and finding it good?

I did a decent bit of research before I got mine. Cost was the main factor in me choosing it but I also read up a little bit on it first. I saw a review on road.cc website that clinched it for me (fooking boards won't let me link it as I've only 11 posts so far!)

I did a bit of digging around before I got one off swimcyclerun.com. Can't remember what is cost me now but it was about 1/2 the price of the Garmin Vectors (with a 10% discount using the code Race14 which I got from another thread). I got it in June and its worked perfectly since I got it. I had read that some people had problems with the early batches of the Stages, mine was manufactured in May 2014 and no problems with it so far training 4 times a week, some sessions on the turbo and others around Wicklow.

I ended up buying the Power Meter Handbook by Joe Friel and I think my training is definitely more focused/specific now. If you wanna train really scientifically then power meters are a good investment. Can't wait to get a good winter using it and see my numbers improve (hopefuly!)

Have the Stages. Got one of the first batch and it did suffer a lot of problems. It seemed the bluetooth didn't turn off and so the battery drained really quick. Seemed to be a particular problem if the bike was not used for a few days. This meant changing the battery which itwas not designed for so many changes and the seals broke.

Stages support were brilliant dealing with it, sent me a replacement via UK. I had bought mine in the US but they had no problem sending the replacement to Ireland.

The replacement is the never version and works perfectly. Set up is simple, links perfectly with the garmin and readings are consistent. It is so light (20g) and so easy to transfer between bikes. Having to build up wheels etc seems a lot of hassle and then which wheels do you choose, training or racing?

All in all a great piece of kit. And this notion that it only records left leg being a problem, well the one sided vector shows how redundant that claim is. Nobody, apart from the very top track cyclists etc, need to know the split. It's the combined power you produce and how long you can sustain a certain level for.

In terms of using power meters, the power meter handbook was too indepth for me. I have the PM for about a year now so have a pretty good level of numbers to be able to base my training around. This year I simply used the PM as a recoding device, something to review after the cycle. I had used HR for years so that was a better guide. Now that I can review the HR data with the PM data I can draw out conculsions and base my training around that.

I find that there is a pretty clear link between power output and HR. Of course HR lags behind but on a climb or a brekaway, once the initial burst is done its about getting into a sustainable level that you hold for a period of time.

Jack Joll

Lads all this talk about weight, grams! I don't think the additional weight of a p2m over a traditional ultegra or dura-ace crankset it much to bear. Unless you've upgraded all your components and every one is adding over 100g to your bike. What you'll gain from consistant training with the PM will far out weigh (pardon the pun) any additional weight added by the component.
Its kg's on the body that are the issue, these will haunt you every time there's a rise in the road, everytime you get out of the saddle to attack, and the quads start to burn. Thats what Id be looking down at and trying to shift, not whats rotating around in the BB.
And lastely dont be like a Froome, be more like a Contador live the race go on feel, PM is great for training and looking back over the race, but put out your stall , don't be afraid, you'll never know you might surprise yourself.

I have seen lads fixated on the stem on the race scene!

pprendeville

godtabh wrote: »

I've seen stages on sale with 20% off lately. New versions must be on the horizon

Any links?

godtabh

pprendeville wrote: »

Any links?

only 15% off now

http://www.powermeter24.com/de/produkte/stages-power

Kinet1c

So, this power meter form 4iiii's looks:

• Accurate
• Easy to fit
• Affordable

<insert stfu & take my money pic>

Diarmuid

$399. Very interesting.

BenEadir

I think the BrimBros PM is being officially launched at Interbike today. It will be intersting to see how it is received and what the final price will be.

godtabh

BenThere wrote: »

I think the BrimBros PM is being officially launched at Interbike today. It will be intersting to see how it is received and what the final price will be.

Given that its cleat specific I dont think it will be as big a success as Stages or 4iiis as unless you have shoes/pedals already it will add to the price.

The 4iiii's one looks interesting

joker77

Diarmuid wrote: »

$399. Very interesting.

Indeed, especially this:

At Eurobike, virtually every industry person asked me what I thought of left only power meters. My response was basically the same to everyone: I believe that left only power meters are in some ways a temporary thing. While Stages set the precedent, they did so not just in data collection location (left), but in price. But despite common thinking they didn’t put the price elevator at the lobby, but rather about 20-30 floors up from where their elevator can go. For now, that elevator has sat there and Stages has raked in the dough and outsold other power meters in some cases 10-20 to 1 (in talking with many local bike shops).

quozl

I don't see how 400$ power meters in the very near future doesn't mean that Brim Brothers have missed their window of opportunity. As now the price they can be competitive at is much lower than it was. While they do have their distinguishing features they don't seem like they're features that people would pay much of a premium for.

Which would be a real shame, so hopefully I'm completely wrong.

Kinet1c

I think the BB power meter is a good price compared to Garmin's as they're similar products but I'd still opt for a stages/4iiii's based on my amateur requirements and financial restraints.

mossym

i wouldn't go getting too excited about the 4iiis just yet. stages has serious issues at the start, lots of users with endless battery changes and swapping out pms for replacements. that may be resolved now(still some saying it's not), but i wouldn't be basing too much on dcr's vert short review. at least wait till he gets to spend some time with it


that said, if it works, it's a nice alternative, cheap, portable(get the same crankset on all your bikes and you can easily swap just the left arm ) Then it comes down to how much faith you put on the whole left only power arguements.

it really looks like the market is segmenting into two areas. one, the lower end, single side only, stages/4iiii, cost is king, omit some features, but they are probably not vital for those interested at this price point.
then the higher end crank (SRM, quarg, p2m) and wheel based solutions, more expensive, but aimed at those that want every last bit of data they can get

no complaints there, at the price of this i could leave my p2m installed on my tri bike, use that for training/racing, and put a 4iii on my road bike just for spins on that, where the power numbers not that important.

Hmmzis

From what I read the 4iiii can be also both sided or on the right side crank. One side is 400usd and both sides are 750usd.

I think the biggest issues with that system are going to be user specific. There is alot of things to be done compared ot a Stages or p2m which are just 'bolt it on and go'. The gluing bit being the most obvious and the temp compensation calibration process being somewhat a mystery for me currently. If it works I would seriously consider a dual sided version of it, or just start with one side and add the other one later.

harringtonp

Speed read DC's report and the watt values are much lower for it and we're not talking 1-2%. It is early but I'd be wanting to see readings for it that are consistent with other units.

mossym

harringtonp wrote: »

Speed read DC's report and the watt values are much lower for it and we're not talking 1-2%. It is early but I'd be wanting to see readings for it that are consistent with other units.

there was an excuse given early in the piece that it was due to an isolated unit. it's a bit odd they bring a unit to the show that's off, without a spare. i work at CES every year and we bring spare everything for the spares that we bring for the main units.

worth watching to see his longer term review. that was the point of my post above

Kinet1c

harringtonp wrote: »

Speed read DC's report and the watt values are much lower for it and we're not talking 1-2%. It is early but I'd be wanting to see readings for it that are consistent with other units.

The values would be an issue if you've got multiple power meters and are seeing variance. If you've got just the 4iiii's on one bike or on multiple, the reading will be consistent.

It's a bit like the weighing scales I have at home. It's piss poor but it's the one I consistently use, so while the exact measurement may not be right... I can see progress going in the right direction.

mossym

Kinet1c wrote: »

The values would be an issue if you've got multiple power meters and are seeing variance. If you've got just the 4iiii's on one bike or on multiple, the reading will be consistent.

It's a bit like the weighing scales I have at home. It's piss poor but it's the one I consistently use, so while the exact measurement may not be right... I can see progress going in the right direction.

It points at an error though. And you are right, if you just want to measure relative improvement. But if it is off like that at one temp, can you say for sure that when the temp goes up by 10c that the error is the same. That's where these errors start to get important.

doozerie

Brim Brothers have released the price for their power meter, which will launch at Interbike with a name of ZONE D.P.M.X. apparently, it's US$999.

godtabh

doozerie wrote: »

Brim Brothers have released the price for their power meter, which will launch at Interbike with a name of ZONE D.P.M.X. apparently, it's US$999.

At that price point its a failure already

doozerie

godtabh wrote: »

At that price point its a failure already

I disagree. The price will certainly put a lot of people off, but that doesn't necessarily make it a failure. If it is competing against the likes of Stages then they may have a hard sell on their hands, but if they are competing against the likes of SRM (in terms of functionality, accuracy, reliability, etc.) then they may be very successful at that price point.

Chips Lovell

I think it's pretty competitively priced provided it's accurate. Left and right power measurement that can easily be moved between bikes.

godtabh

I don't seem them competing with SRM or the likes. SRM and the the like have the history behind them to be able offer the functionality, accuracy, reliability, etc where as the likes of Stages, 4iiiiiiiiiiis and Brim Brothers dont so have to compete at price.

The Zone could be as good as an SRM or Power2Max but people wont pay the same price as they would for an established product

doozerie

godtabh wrote: »

I don't seem them competing with SRM or the likes. SRM and the the like have the history behind them to be able offer the functionality, accuracy, reliability, etc where as the likes of Stages, 4iiiiiiiiiiis and Brim Brothers dont so have to compete at price.

The Zone could be as good as an SRM or Power2Max but people wont pay the same price as they would for an established product

Whatever about accuracy and reliability, the Zone has a (not quite unique) selling point of convenience in that it is essentially independent of the bike. Some people may not care about that, but many will - for example, it essentially instantly gives you a power meter on every bike you hop onto (with the same pedals, of course), with no transfer of parts required, which arguably makes it much more convenient and cheaper than many of its competitors.

Then there is the data for each foot, the argument that power measured at the pedal/foot interface is more accurate than that measured at the hub for example, etc., all of which might build up to a very competitive offering. Or it may not, the market is changing all the time and perhaps what customers are looking for is changing a lot too at the same time.

godtabh

Personally at my level the l.r balance isnt an issue. Consistency is key ie temp changes arent going to affect readings.