Power Meter Brands

easygoing39

I was all ready to buy a Stages Power meter,but reliability seems to be a problem.Was speaking to a lad who got one,and it has his heart broken.It wont "connect" to his Garmin when he turns his Garmin on.He has to remove the battery out of the Stages 1st.And then it sometimes stops sending data to the Garmin in mid spin,again he has to remove the Stages battery.He purchased it up north ,has had it back to the shop for some kind of "flash" update,which didnt work!!

Also there's a power meter test in one of this months cycle magazines,and the Stages comes out very bad for its less than accurrate power readings.
I've a mate who visits the states a good few times a year for work and was all set to give hime the money for a 105 Stages,but there's no way I'll go ahead till I hear more positive reports.

doozerie

easygoing39 wrote: »

Also there's a power meter test in one of this months cycle magazines,and the Stages comes out very bad for its less than accurrate power readings.

Pro Cycling has a "Road tested" group test of power meters this month, which is perhaps the one you are referring to. It's a brief summary of 8 different power meters, but seems to be based on actually riding with them so in theory at least a useful comparison by people who've actually used the various products.

I don't think posting the one line summary for each here will infringe any copyright so here goes:

* Rotor Power, £1,550 - If the calibration problems can be sorted, this will be a good quality power meter.

* Factor Power Crank, £2,000 - The Factor Power Crank sets the new standard for power meters.

* Garmin Vector, £1,349 - Ease of use, plus accuracy and wealth of data justify switching pedals.

* Power2Max, £785 - Handles the essentials of power measurement well at a good price.

* Powertap G3, £2,665 - Time-proven good quality data with user friendly hardware.

* Quarq Elsa 10R, £1,599.99 - Decent data but a little pricey.

* Stages Power, £799 - A gateway power meter with some limitations.

* SRM Powermeter, £3,199 - The gold standard for so long but far more expensive than its newer rivals.

Specifically in relation to Stages they mentioned that they "had problems zeroing the meter before each ride". They also said they rode through a "fairly deep puddle" with every power meter and that this caused the Stages to "stop working temporarily" - they took the battery out and dried it for a day to get it working again.

The article verdict was that the Power2Max was the best choice amongst the sub-£1,000 meters. For mid-range meters they opted for Garmin Vector. For top-of-the-range the Factor Power Crank got their vote.

Interestingly the article also mentioned the iBike Newton, which doesn't directly measure the force you generate, it measures the forces you overcome (wind resistance, gravity, rolling resistance). They say they'll review it in the future but that it "has so far proven to track pretty well alongside crank-based systems", it weighs 82g, and costs £599.

doozerie

Inquitus wrote: »

Very surprised at the omission of Bluetooth LE, Ant+ days are numbered.

That’s an interesting point. I haven’t kept pace with developments in that area at all so I tend to think in terms of ANT+ support as being all that is needed for the foreseeable future. That’s obviously very short-sighted on my part. As if to prove that, I see that with the Powertap G3/GS there is a replaceable power cap available which comes in two versions - one supports ANT+, the other supports Bluetooth Smart/LE. Oddly, if you buy the entire G3/GS hub from Wiggle (or some other sources I briefly checked) they don’t seem to specify which version of power cap you get, so I assume that they still supply the ANT+ version as standard for now.

I wonder what such developments will do for the head unit market over the next while too. To take just one brand, the Garmin 500 and 800 don’t support Bluetooth at all currently, the 1000, 810, and 510 do support Bluetooth but *not* Bluetooth Smart Smart - oddly though that’s not explicitly stated on the Garmin website, that I can see, they mention Bluetooth support but not the version (4.0 or otherwise) so I had to look elsewhere to check that, and they still mention only ANT+ in relation to compatibility with power meters. So while Garmin marketing doesn’t appear to be emphasising the trend toward Bluetooth Smart it does look like another reason to consider a 510/810/1000 in preference to a 500/800 if you are thinking about longer term compatibility when buying a Garmin

harringtonp

doozerie wrote: »

The article verdict was that the Power2Max was the best choice amongst the sub-£1,000 meters. For mid-range meters they opted for Garmin Vector. For top-of-the-range the Factor Power Crank got their vote.

Laugh when I see the categories "mid-range" and "top-of-the-range" used here as this type of branding usually reflects on quality and/or functionality.

What exactly is better about a SRM than for example a power2max.... where is the extra functionality, quality or ease of use ?

"mid-price" and "top-price" would be more suitable terminology

godtabh

doozerie wrote: »

That’s an interesting point. I haven’t kept pace with developments in that area at all so I tend to think in terms of ANT+ support as being all that is needed for the foreseeable future. That’s obviously very short-sighted on my part. As if to prove that, I see that with the Powertap G3/GS there is a replaceable power cap available which comes in two versions - one supports ANT+, the other supports Bluetooth Smart/LE. Oddly, if you buy the entire G3/GS hub from Wiggle (or some other sources I briefly checked) they don’t seem to specify which version of power cap you get, so I assume that they still supply the ANT+ version as standard for now.

I wonder what such developments will do for the head unit market over the next while too. To take just one brand, the Garmin 500 and 800 don’t support Bluetooth at all currently, the 1000, 810, and 510 do support Bluetooth Smart - oddly though that’s not explicitly stated on the Garmin website, that I can see, they mention Bluetooth support but not the version (4.0 or otherwise) so I had to look elsewhere to check that, and they still mention only ANT+ in relation to compatibility with power meters. So while Garmin marketing doesn’t appear to be emphasising the trend toward Bluetooth Smart it does look like another reason to consider a 510/810/1000 in preference to a 500/800 if you are thinking about longer term compatibility when buying a Garmin

The 510/810 to include bluetooth but not bluetooth smart (4.0) which was a big talking point at the time of release as it limited the devices to garmin branded products. Wahoo fitness are an example of how to use bluetooth 4.0

godtabh

doozerie wrote: »

Interestingly the article also mentioned the iBike Newton, which doesn't directly measure the force you generate, it measures the forces you overcome (wind resistance, gravity, rolling resistance). They say they'll review it in the future but that it "has so far proven to track pretty well alongside crank-based systems", it weighs 82g, and costs £599.

Was trying to find a review on this that I read before (cant find it now of course) that basically says if you use it in wet conditions its crap. Not much use for Ireland so

sconhome

doozerie wrote: »

That’s an interesting point. I haven’t kept pace with developments in that area at all so I tend to think in terms of ANT+ support as being all that is needed for the foreseeable future. That’s obviously very short-sighted on my part. As if to prove that, I see that with the Powertap G3/GS there is a replaceable power cap available which comes in two versions - one supports ANT+, the other supports Bluetooth Smart/LE. Oddly, if you buy the entire G3/GS hub from Wiggle (or some other sources I briefly checked) they don’t seem to specify which version of power cap you get, so I assume that they still supply the ANT+ version as standard for now.

I wonder what such developments will do for the head unit market over the next while too. To take just one brand, the Garmin 500 and 800 don’t support Bluetooth at all currently, the 1000, 810, and 510 do support Bluetooth Smart - oddly though that’s not explicitly stated on the Garmin website, that I can see, they mention Bluetooth support but not the version (4.0 or otherwise) so I had to look elsewhere to check that, and they still mention only ANT+ in relation to compatibility with power meters. So while Garmin marketing doesn’t appear to be emphasising the trend toward Bluetooth Smart it does look like another reason to consider a 510/810/1000 in preference to a 500/800 if you are thinking about longer term compatibility when buying a Garmin

Polar V650 is about to launch and it is a full BT Smart setup which will partner with their pedals (being changed from WIND to BTSmart shortly).

The change to BTSmart seems to be driven by the smart phone market too so expect apps to be developed which will work as head units in the near future.

V650 is being used by some of the teams in TdF AFAIK.

Inquitus

AKW wrote: »

Polar V650 is about to launch and it is a full BT Smart setup which will partner with their pedals (being changed from WIND to BTSmart shortly).

The change to BTSmart seems to be driven by the smart phone market too so expect apps to be developed which will work as head units in the near future.

V650 is being used by some of the teams in TdF AFAIK.

Ant+ still has its place, infact I believe it is better than BT Smart, but BT Smart will become more and more prevalent with everyone having a Smartphone. I think any new PM should support both as the Stages does, it gives the user the most flexibility. For me a Garmin is deal for outdoors use, but using BT may make more sense to alot of people for Turbo work indoors, esp with Trainer Road apps for tablets etc. it's a simple elegant turbo training solution.

Obv Garmin has issues here as they own Ant+ and make a pretty penny out of licensing the tech, while they don't want to shoot themselves in the foot by ignoring BT, hence it's adoption in the 510, 810 etc. thay also don't want to contribute to the demise of Ant+.

doozerie

harringtonp wrote: »

Laugh when I see the categories "mid-range" and "top-of-the-range" used here as this type of branding usually reflects on quality and/or functionality.

What exactly is better about a SRM than for example a power2max.... where is the extra functionality, quality or ease of use ?

"mid-price" and "top-price" would be more suitable terminology

From my reading of the article they are categorising the various power meters by price primarily. Which is reasonable, I think, as price is a huge factor for many people when it comes to choosing one. The mini reviews cover features of each so the article itself wasn't trying to imply that greater price = greater functionality, I believe - the functionality of each could be determined by reading the detail, they just opted for one of several simplistic means of grouping the various meters.

doozerie

godtabh wrote: »

The 510/810 to include bluetooth but not bluetooth smart (4.0) which was a big talking point at the time of release as it limited the devices to garmin branded products. Wahoo fitness are an example of how to use bluetooth 4.0

You're right. I did a quick search earlier and found a few references to support for Bluetooth 4.0 in Garmin devices but a closer look shows that the devices in question were not Edge devices at all. According to an article I found just now, the chipset in the Edge 810 is 2.1 so firmware upgrade to 4.0 isn't even possible. Thanks for pointing it out.

mossym

harringtonp wrote: »

Laugh when I see the categories "mid-range" and "top-of-the-range" used here as this type of branding usually reflects on quality and/or functionality.

What exactly is better about a SRM than for example a power2max.... where is the extra functionality, quality or ease of use ?

"mid-price" and "top-price" would be more suitable terminology

just pulled the trigger on a power2max for that very reason. came down to srm and p2m, and i couldn't see what they extra cost in the SRM was giving me(specifically me, the difference may be justified for others).

with nothing but good reports on the p2m from what i could see it doesn't appear anyone has identified a flaw in it that justifies the srm price differential

FrankGrimes

mossym wrote: »

just pulled the trigger on a power2max for that very reason. came down to srm and p2m, and i couldn't see what they extra cost in the SRM was giving me(specifically me, the difference may be justified for others).

with nothing but good reports on the p2m from what i could see it doesn't appear anyone has identified a flaw in it that justifies the srm price differential

Have a colleague in the market asking for advice, where did you find best price on p2m with chainrings and how's it working out for you?

Jack Joll

Sale on p2m at the mo, knocking about €200 off the pm as the S series is taking over. You can only get p2m from them direct, unless you source someone looking to offload secondhand.

FrankGrimes

Jack Joll wrote: »

Sale on p2m at the mo, knocking about €200 off the pm as the S series is taking over. You can only get p2m from them direct, unless you source someone looking to offload secondhand.

Thanks for that, they look a pretty good option at that price, given what seem to be a consensus of positive reviews (since the temperature drift issue was resolved), he won't go far wrong with one by the looks of it. Getting tempted now myself too...

mossym

FrankGrimes wrote: »

Have a colleague in the market asking for advice, where did you find best price on p2m with chainrings and how's it working out for you?

still waiting on mine, expected to take 2 weeks from order so i have a ship date of this week. as mentioned you have to order from p2m direct.

the sale makes the original meter more attractive. think i would still have gone for the s, it's lighter, and can use any battery, whereas the original needs a specific brand. maybe i'm just trying to console myself that they reduced the price the week after i purchased, although i went for the s which isn't reduced anyway

Jack Joll

It doesn't need any specific battery, CR2450 can be picked up in any jewellery store. I wouldn't have thought that theres much weight saving between the two. Maybe weight saving in the pocket!!

mossym

Jack Joll wrote: »

It doesn't need any specific battery, CR2450 can be picked up in any jewellery store. I wouldn't have thought that theres much weight saving between the two. Maybe weight saving in the pocket!!

According to the link the classic is renata battery only? And the type s is a whopping 80 grams lighter.
http://www.power2max.com/northamerica/type-s-power2max-classic-selection-guide/

Would probably have gone for the classic if the sale had started but it hadn't so no point worrying

harringtonp

mossym wrote: »

According to the link the classic is renata battery only? And the type s is a whopping 80 grams lighter.
http://www.power2max.com/northamerica/type-s-power2max-classic-selection-guide/

Would probably have gone for the classic if the sale had started but it hadn't so no point worrying

I replaced my battery recently with a standard 2450 and it works fine

FrankGrimes

mossym wrote: »

still waiting on mine, expected to take 2 weeks from order so i have a ship date of this week. as mentioned you have to order from p2m direct.

the sale makes the original meter more attractive. think i would still have gone for the s, it's lighter, and can use any battery, whereas the original needs a specific brand. maybe i'm just trying to console myself that they reduced the price the week after i purchased, although i went for the s which isn't reduced anyway

Given that the sale has commenced while you're awaiting your order, have you tried asking them if they'll give you the sale price? Might be worth a shot. It really does look like a decent option at the sale price, not all that much more than the Stages, but seems to give very decent accuracy. For me, it'd be 53/39 for the TT bike or flat races so an extra 90g isn't much of a concern.

DCRainmaker suggests it's best to go with a Renata battery (here) but looks from harringtonp that any 2450 is grand, handy that.

mossym

just shipped. AS i went for the s anyway i'm not that bothered, would have been annoyed if i bought the classic though

thekooman

http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2014/08/watteam-their-powerbeat.html

godtabh

thekooman wrote: »

http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2014/08/watteam-their-powerbeat.html

not sure I like the look of all the wires!

quozl

I really like the look of the price though...

thekooman

if it was that price, if its a good powermeter and if it comes to fruition, they will make a killing.... a lot of "ifs".

pprendeville

What's the main difference between the classic power2max and the s-type? Will the classic fit a Shimano chainset. Seems to be lots of options for cranks but nothing for Shimano.

Inquitus

thekooman wrote: »

http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2014/08/watteam-their-powerbeat.html

Call me sceptical, but I can't see this one working. Stages avoid Carbon crankarms as the deflection isn't consistent, and they calibrate theirs in the factory on the metal cranks, can't see how a glue it yourself PM can ever be calibrated correctly given variances in cranks, adhesion of glue, your gluing skills.....

mossym

pprendeville wrote: »

What's the main difference between the classic power2max and the s-type? Will the classic fit a Shimano chainset. Seems to be lots of options for cranks but nothing for Shimano.

see post 228 above with a link to the differences. classic will work with shimano bottom bracket, but you;ll have to change the crankset over to the rotor, likely the 3d

pprendeville

That rules that purchase out then as it is €790 and seems to only be available in a compact. Here's hoping Brim Brothers release theirs soon at an "affordable" price. They have their 15 testers picked so hopefully those testers have the units now and maybe DC Rainmaker will have a review in the next few months.

Ryath

pprendeville wrote: »

What's the main difference between the classic power2max and the s-type? Will the classic fit a Shimano chainset. Seems to be lots of options for cranks but nothing for Shimano.

http://www.power2max.de/europe/en/Produkt/bestsellers/power2max-fsa-gossamer-road/

The FSA gossamer crank has a 24mm axle and can be used with shimano hollowtech bottom brackets.

mossym

pprendeville wrote: »

That rules that purchase out then as it is €790 and seems to only be available in a compact. Here's hoping Brim Brothers release theirs soon at an "affordable" price. They have their 15 testers picked so hopefully those testers have the units now and maybe DC Rainmaker will have a review in the next few months.

definitely not only in a compact, my standard version just arrived last night, 130 bcd, standard praxxis chain rings, rotor 3d cranks.

just had a look on the site and the 130 standard is still available in the rotor 3d