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The Evil Within
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Join Date:Posts: 50597
johnny_ultimate wrote: »You can easily appreciate a 2.35 ratio on a TV, though. A proper theatrical screen might be the ideal, but one can still happily appreciate the compositions on smaller screens. And since screens are much larger and wider these days as a matter of course, it's a hell of a lot easier to do so than it was ten, twenty years ago. On SD screens, there was a lot lost, but the vast majority of HD sets have much more space to play around with.
You're still losing a hell of a lot of resolution detail. Not sure if the trade off will be worth it. I'm not convinced the widescreen will bring a whole lot to the game but I won't know until I play it.
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Join Date:Posts: 50597
In relation to the gameplay mechanics, it's all ifs and buts but bethesda did state the following;
"The letterboxing (a 2:35:1 aspect ratio) is used for gameplay purposes, as certain elements display in the black areas of the screen,"
I'd love to know what is so special about this because so far I've heard zip.
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Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,455 CMod ✭✭✭✭
Join Date:Posts: 28166
Robert ninja wrote: »I still don't buy that this gives the view anymore horizontal space, either.
It's less there is more space, and more that it gives a new balance and prominence to the space that is there. I've grabbed two examples from this gameplay video to illustrate this*:
Taken from a scene where you're trying to hide from an aggressor.
I ****ing love the balance in this image. To me it makes beautiful use of the rule of thirds, directing our attention at the three things that matter - the shadow, the player and the gap in the wall. It largely strips away the unnecessary information to give a beautiful wide screen image that communicates what needs to be communicated while also making smart and effective use out of predominantly horizontal space. And it really allows that shadow to stretch in a deeply menacing way.
(Separately but interelatedly, the stunning lighting engine feeds into all that)
Another:
This to me is a great example of the kind of thing that can be taken advantage of when a wider ratio is used and would pack less of an impact in 16:9 (it would still be possible, just not as pronounced as it is here). It really allows the walls of the hall to stretch cavernously into both the back- and foreground, and lends the scene a more intimidating, creepy mood. The impact, IMO anyway, is a particularly powerful one in 2.35:1.
Understanding and taking advantage of the inherent balance and symmetry of compositions is what makes different aspect ratios shine, when we move past the technical, financial and practical reasons that led to the emergence of multiple ratios in the first place. It's why some directors still use 4:3 today (have you seen Ida, which is out in the cinema at the moment? A stunning example of the type of images that can be achieved in Academy ratio). Once again, I can only restate that I'd suspect technical reasons likely did weigh in on the decision to present the Evil Within in with black bars - whether it was the dominant concern or a secondary one we probably won't ever know. I'm also sure there will be no shortage of moments when full-screen would have been just as serviceable or even preferable. Yet if examples like the above are commonplace in the full game, I sincerely hope Mikami and his team have taken advantage of the visual potential of widescreen too.
*I should stress that given the nature of interactive media, compositions are much more dynamic and unpredictable than in film. However, I think a designer can elegantly craft the experience to ensure the player experiences some of the most arresting and memorable images, and offer the opportunity for unique ones to emerge organically.0 -
Captain Chaos wrote: »I'd take a locked solid 30fps game over one that runs at 60 at times but can drop like a brick if the action gets too much.
I'd take a solid 60fps than a locked 30fps. And we've seen 30fps locked games get drop frames before.
And we've also seen new games get fairly solid 60fps
So there's really no excuse.
Also, to your point about a solid 30 vs fluctuating 60. To me it depends on what kind of drops are we talking about. I'd take up to ~10 dropped frames during action with 60 peak any day of the week over constant 30. It only becomes jarring to me if things start dropping to around 45 and fairly often.johnny_ultimate wrote: »It's less there is more space, and more that it gives a new balance and prominence to the space that is there. I've grabbed two examples from this gameplay video to illustrate this*:
Taken from a scene where you're trying to hide from an aggressor.
I ****ing love the balance in this image. To me it makes beautiful use of the rule of thirds, directing our attention at the three things that matter - the shadow, the player and the gap in the wall. It largely strips away the unnecessary information to give a beautiful wide screen image that communicates what needs to be communicated while also making smart and effective use out of predominantly horizontal space. And it really allows that shadow to stretch in a deeply menacing way.
(Separately but interelatedly, the stunning lighting engine feeds into all that)
Another:
This to me is a great example of the kind of thing that can be taken advantage of when a wider ratio is used and would pack less of an impact in 16:9 (it would still be possible, just not as pronounced as it is here). It really allows the walls of the hall to stretch cavernously into both the back- and foreground, and lends the scene a more intimidating, creepy mood. The impact, IMO anyway, is a particularly powerful one in 2.35:1.
Understanding and taking advantage of the inherent balance and symmetry of compositions is what makes different aspect ratios shine, when we move past the technical, financial and practical reasons that led to the emergence of multiple ratios in the first place. It's why some directors still use 4:3 today (have you seen Ida, which is out in the cinema at the moment? A stunning example of the type of images that can be achieved in Academy ratio). Once again, I can only restate that I'd suspect technical reasons likely did weigh in on the decision to present the Evil Within in with black bars - whether it was the dominant concern or a secondary one we probably won't ever know. I'm also sure there will be no shortage of moments when full-screen would have been just as serviceable or even preferable. Yet if examples like the above are commonplace in the full game, I sincerely hope Mikami and his team have taken advantage of the visual potential of widescreen too.
*I should stress that given the nature of interactive media, compositions are much more dynamic and unpredictable than in film. However, I think a designer can elegantly craft the experience to ensure the player experiences some of the most arresting and memorable images, and offer the opportunity for unique ones to emerge organically.
@johnny_ultimate
Everything you said makes sense for still screenshots and movies. I say again, it's completely invalid when you're actually playing a 3D game that's moving. It's an FOV issue. You're limiting the amount of vertical space, NOT increasing the horizontal resolution... only an ultra-wide monitor can do that.
Those screenshots you're showing won't have the same impact when the camera is in a players hands unless the game's camera and overall levels are extremely scripted... which is terrible for any game in my opinion. You honestly think showing a bit more of the ceiling and floor is going to ruin the horizontal data (which I repeat will still be available at any standard aspect ratio)? This is not a movie, you're not just watching it fly by you're playing a game.
For the first image, the shadow, the player and the gap are going to be just as striking with or without more vertical view in a video game and could be designed to be noticed in ANY aspect ratio.johnny_ultimate wrote: »This to me is a great example of the kind of thing that can be taken advantage of when a wider ratio is used and would pack less of an impact in 16:9 (it would still be possible, just not as pronounced as it is here)
Once again, the depth of the corridor is not more pronounced with black bars on the bottom or top of the screen. In a movie or screenshot, yes. In a 3D rendered game, no. If anything, with more vertical space you'd see more of the ground that's closer to the camera view which would appear wide (naturally) and give even more visual data of the scene.
But if nothing else, johnny_ultimate, you've got me at least curious as to what these black bars would do to other games. Do you think they'd express these kinds of things in other games or does the game need to be designed with it in mind? Surely the corridor example would work on most games with high visual fidelity. Would it work in first person? I think Outlast would be a great game to test that on if so and I'd personally be interested in doing the leg work of gathering screenshots and even videos of such a thing because I really hope everything you're saying is right and I'd love to hear it from the developers though because all they've come out with is some of the most rubbish talk I've heard in a long time.0 -
Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,455 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Join Date:Posts: 28166
I'm merely using screenshots as it's the easiest way to illustrate my points, IMO they're just as striking in motion in the video I linked to
Listen: I can't deny that a certain amount of this is a personal aesthetic preference. I'm an aspect ratio nerd when it comes to film (especially since Netflix has committed some hideous crimes against them) and I love seeing the unique opportunities the three primary ones offer. With 2.35 widescreen, I always simply feel it communicates something more epic and atmospheric, something that is frankly quite hard to articulate. I'm genuinely excited that games are experimenting with them, and can't wait to play them myself. From a purely theoretical standpoint and as someone who has long grown accustomed to black bars on TVs (once upon a time I used to use zoom features to get rid of them - I now consider that an utter sacrilege), I truly feel there is no real reason why it won't work in games that are in motion. Not all games, of course, but when used wisely in exceptional cases I think it could work very well. I don't think having them in full-screen would ruin the examples I gave above - my personal taste is that they are very striking when wider, and give the scenes a more unique look that works particularly well given the game's lighting engine and tone.
I don't necessarily agree that scripting is always a bad thing, and great designers - of which I'd count Mikami as one - can craft the environments and level with care and subtlety to ensure the player sees most of the memorable sights (dynamic and predeterimined) without taking control away from them. Not there's anything wrong with setpieces or scripted sequences, either - while some games will always work better when open-ended and unpredictable, others will benefit from a more rigid design and a designer guiding us through their creation.
I honestly don't have an answer as to whether other aspect ratios would work in other games - I think it's important that the game is crafted with it in mind from an early stage, otherwise you really are just cutting off the top and bottom of the screen. Given the video and screenshots in my above post are more than a year old, that actually gives me quite a bit of confidence that it was at least partially a very conscious artistic decision from an early point.0 -
Join Date:Posts: 50597
It's hard to frame a shot when the player is in control. Games work differently to film, they aren't really comparable. I suppose I'll find out at the weekend when I get to play it what impact it does make.Captain Chaos wrote: »I'd take a locked solid 30fps game over one that runs at 60 at times but can drop like a brick if the action gets too much.
We saw the difference in the Last of Us Remastered running at 30 and 60 fps. Changes the feel of the game and makes it far more fluid and easier to do head shots.
Whether the developer goes for 30 FPS and increased detail or 60 FPS for far better gameplay is their choice. Not every game can be 60 FPS, it's understandable. However telling people that 30 FPS is an artistic choice or is better is a lie and total bull****. Just say you are aiming for 30 FPS, there's no need to lie. 60 FPS for games is always preferable if not always achievable.
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Robert ninja wrote: »I've had games before with black bars... it's not fun.
The only game I can think of that was developed with black bars was Resident Evil 4 and that was mostly to keep the framerate up. Before that it was just terrible conversions of games to European PAL standards which totally screwed with the aspect ratio, slowed everything down and made everything squashed which was indeed awful.
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