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Off the Fence....and looking to go sub 3 hrs
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23/07/2015 - 6.1m @ 09:30 avg pace (Recovery)
Nice evening recovery run around St Anne's. Really like the job they have done on the new path along the Watermill Road side. Was passed at mile 3 by KennyG Jnr bouncing along and showing how the young folk do it........don't you just hate people that make it look so easy
Bumped into KennyG himself a mile later and joined him for a mile or so before leaving him at it and heading for home. He was ticking along nicely and keeping the pace easy as instructed by Dubgal and the crew over on the novices thread
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Hey rooneyjm, fire away!! Hopefully I can answer them
You mentioned you used the P&D plan. Are you still using it? Have you changed anything for your second crack at 3hrs?
How much did you improve over the course of the plan, did you find there were big gains?
Did you find you lost much weight when you up'ed the training. What are you currently at?
DCM is a tougher course. Are you training for a quicker time w.r.t Berlin to try hit 3 in DCM.
That will do for now. Cheers0 -
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Do you think northsiders are naturally quicker as they're used to 'running like they stole something'?
That's rich from someone from Clondalkin :P..........who has been trying for years to be accepted on this side of the River;)How bout a "FBOT in the spotlight" thread?
No chance, D. It would be the shortest thread in Boards history....and probably one of the most puerile 0 -
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You mentioned you used the P&D plan. Are you still using it? Have you changed anything for your second crack at 3hrs?
How much did you improve over the course of the plan, did you find there were big gains?
Did you find you lost much weight when you up'ed the training. What are you currently at?
DCM is a tougher course. Are you training for a quicker time w.r.t Berlin to try hit 3 in DCM.
That will do for now. Cheers
Currently in week 5 of 18 week P&D 55-70 in prep for DCM. Only real thing I will change this cycle will be to push the LT pace a little more. Last cycle I ran them with sub 06:30 target. This time I will be pushing them to sub 06:15. I will also be focusing on pushing MP runs to southside of 06:45 rather than accepting them a little north of it.
I saw huge gains in my ability to recover when I put the hard graft in on the first P&D cycle and got the average mileage up. It then all became about the pace rather than the distance. Also managed to go sub 18 for 5k and sub 30mins for 5m earlier this year off the back of last years marathon cycles. Just upping the mileage brings gains but doing in with a structure approach like that of P&D made it easier for me to stick with it. I am afraid I am a plan man. I train much better when I know what I am trying to do and have a plan to get there.
Yes I lost weight particular in the second cycle as I ran "naked" for that cycle i.e. no gels, foods or liquids on pretty much all of my runs. I would carry the emergency €2 just in case but I think I only used it once on a 23 miler. I am currently about half a stone over what I would hope to hit the start line in Oct at.........can't quote numbers on here as there are certainly people that read this that would have the view that I am way to skinny when I get close to race day
While Dublin is a tougher course than Berlin I would argue that not having to travel and having hometown support will balance that. Also last year Berlin was very very warm and humid and I made an error with my fuelling/hydration from 20 miles on that IMO resulted in me losing the valuable minute over the last two miles. The training had me in great shape but the conditions and just a little mental blip/lapse made the difference. Hopefully, I have learned from the experience.....that being said I will be focused on training for 02:55 to give me that extra cushion. Last year I was training based on 02:57/02:58.
I hope that helps.0 -
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Yes I lost weight particular in the second cycle as I ran "naked" for that cycle i.e. no gels, foods or liquids on pretty much all of my runs. I would carry the emergency €2 just in case but I think I only used it once on a 23 miler. I am currently about half a stone over what I would hope to hit the start line in Oct at.........can't quote numbers on here as there are certainly people that read this that would have the view that I am way to skinny when I get close to race day
I hope you are not referring to me !! Waaaaay to skinny and whats this about half a stone over......... we'll have to see about that !!!:cool:0 -
24/07/2015 - 12.1m @ 08:06 avg pace (MLR - Easy)
If Wednesday was a freedom run then this was a functional one. Was working from home today but had to head into the office to drop and collect some stuff so decided to strap in the backpack and kill two birds with one stone.
With one eye on the weekend's long run I was happy enough to take it handy on this one. Only two minor hitches 1) when I left for the return journey I got a sharp dart in the left hammer about half a mile in. I stopped and stretched it out and gave myself a very handy mile to warm it back up before getting going again and 2) when I finished up at a local shop intent on treating myself to a postrun Magnum I noticed that while I had over 12 laps done the total distance was only 11.74m. When I stopped at the office the lap must have reset leaving one lap short:eek:
Couldn't be having that so the Magnum had to wait while I strapped back on the backpack and finished my 12 miles..........Magnum tasted all the sweeter knowing I had finished the job 0 -
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25/07/2015 - 20m @ 07:25 avg pace (LR w/10 @ MPish)
Ideally this one should have waited until tomorrow but as I was on a one day supply mission to the Wild West tomorrow i.e. visiting the youngest in the Gaeltacht, I had to get this in today. Decided to head over to the PP for the MP section.
Took it handy on the way over and didn’t pay too much attention to the watch. Just had a glance each time it beeped. The watch hit Mile 6 as I entered the park and off I went for the MP miles. Did a figure of 8 route up the Avenue, back along the south perimeter, back up the Avenue and then onto the North Road. I struggled to find the pace and the ups and downs along the South perimeter caused me a few pacing problems but I tried to keep the effect high without over doing it. As I hit the Avenue for the second time I got into a much better rhythm and the pace was much better. I considered heading out the Ashtown gate and over to the Canal for the last two miles of the MP section to give myself a head start on the home leg. However, as I had been struggling to get the pace right early on but seemed to have now found a nice stride I decided to stay in the park to avoid junctions etc. that would slow me down or break my rhythm. I would worry about how to get home when I finished the 10 miles MP.
Finished up down near the zoo which was pretty much where I started and 6 miles from home……..16 plus 6 = 22. Thought that maybe 22 was a little further than would be wise at this stage of the cycle.
Headed out to finish off the 2 to get in the planned 18 while considering my options. When I got to Phibsborough I headed down the canal where the watch hit 19. Decided to keep going down Clonliffe Road and into Fairview as I couldn't stop without hitting the 20 mark now could I? Fairview would also give me a bus option to finish off. Got a few words of encouragement from the folks heading to Croker to see Ed Sheeran including a “Run Forest Run” from a rather large lady who tried to take my eyes out with the “balloons” she appeared to be trying to smuggle into the gig.
Pace felt very easy in the last 4 miles after running the MP miles evn though it was still well under 8min/m. Hit 20miles at Clontarf Garda Station and called it a day. Jumped on a bus up to the bus garage then bought myself a bottle of PowerAde and strolled home…….no magnum this evening but a thoroughly enjoyable run all the same.
MP Splits were as follows:
06:58/06:54/06:54/06:59/07:01/07:09/06:45/06:53/06:46/06:44
Only 2 of them at target MP of 06:45 or better.
NOTE: No food or drink taken during this run. Serious stomach cramps during miles 3 and 4 and during the cool down miles.
26/07/2015 - Rest
No running but plenty of running around. Rest me ar$e!
27/07/2015 - 8m @ 08:12 avg pace (General Aerobic w/10x100m Strides)
The week is a stepback or recovery week and I was really glad of it. First time in ages that I left the house in pi$$ing rain. Really hate starting in the rain but after your out sure who cares. Got nicely soaked for the first 3miles of this. Settle into it fine and didn't bother with looking at the watch for this one just had a nice enjoyable run. Took a little bit to get the legs going for the strides.
28/07/2015 - 12m @ 07:38 avg pace (MLR - Progression)
Would have been happy to leave the progression out of this one given the week that is in it but legs felt OK so just went with it. Even in the faster miles the effort felt comfortable.
4m @ 08:05 avg pace
4m @ 07:35 avg pace
4m @ 07:15 avg pace
29/07/2015 - 5.06m @ 09:01m avg pace (Recovery)
Lunchtime recovery in St Anne's. Just did what it said on the tin.
30/07/2015 - 10m @ 07:59 avg pace (General Aerobic)
Headed up towards DCU for this one taking in the drag up Collins Ave and then came back down Griffith Ave and out along the coast. Was struggling a bit coming back towards the coast and was hoping I would meet a friendly face to pass a couple of miles with. Bumped into one of the Raheny Lads in Fairview that was out for an easy run as part of his rehab from injury. He is a tad faster than me and his easy pace was closer to 7mins than 8mins but I have to say they might have been the fastest miles of the day but they also felt like some of the easiest as we just chatted away with no thought given to pace or pain and the stomach cramps that I had been suffering seemed to dissipate.......pain truly is all in the mind
31/07/2015 5m @ 09:06 avg pace
Pretty much a repeat of Wednesday's run.
01/08/2015 15m @ 07:37 avg pace (MLR - Progression)
Out early to get this in before Run Directors duties at St Anne's parkrun. Lovely morning for it and enjoyed this run.........was worth the struggle to convince myself to get out of the bed at 06:30 :pac:
5m @ 08:00 avg pace
5m @ 07:38 avg pace
5m @ 07:16 avg pace
Finish off with a post parkrun coffee in St Anne's new Olive Cafe. Good morning's work.
Back to the hard work next week :eek:0 -
02/08/2015 - Rest
Headed into the PP with the dog in the morning to get him a run out and check out goings on at the RnR. Looked like a nice morning for running. Bumped into Marthstew and Killerz along the way while I saw and heard Super Joe and Digger bringing home the 2:15 crew in fine form. Mrs Killerz was back in action again smiling her way across the line.
Seemed to be a great atmosphere around the place. Only one observation if I may....this is the second year I have spectated at this and both years they have had less than 50m of barriers before the finish. This has lead to spectators creating a very narrow funnel by encroaching on the finishing straight. Another 100m of temporary barriers couldn't cost that much to put in place and it would give the runners a chance to finish in style rather tripping over each other trying to avoided "supporters".....IMHO
Headed to Croker in the afternoon.....least said the better. Roll on the semi!!
03/08/2015 - Rest (Unplanned)
Just decided to go with the flow on the Bank Holiday and a slot never appeared to allow me to run so I didn't. But thoroughly enjoyed a relaxing day.
04/08/2015 - 10m @ 07:22 avg pace (LT w/5 @ 10m pace)
The LT target is 10m pace which should be sub 06:10. A couple of week ago when I did a similar session I manage to hit the plan. Today I just wasn't feeling it.......maybe rest is over rated as I should have been fresh as a daisy having not run since Saturday morning.
Even after cheating a little by running a route that allowed me to do 4 of the 5 LT miles with the wind I struggled to hit the LT Pace. Only mile 3 and 4 when I ignored the watch and just ran was under the 06:10 target. I over did it on mile 3 and suffered for it in mile 4 but when I turned back into the wind for mile 5 there was no way I was hitting the numbers without going eyeballs out. That wasn't in the plan so I just kept the effort high and held form for the last mile........had a decent stitch by the end of it.
LT Mile Splits were 06:11/06:15/05:57/06:07/06:22
Could've been worse 0 -
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05/08/2015 - 14.2m @ 07:40 avg pace (MLR - Progression)
Can't remember too much of this other than seeing some of the 10 in 5 guys struggling round Howth on Marathon 4. I'd say that they were rightly focked by Saturday. I also remember bouncing through the last 4 miles section of sub 07:20 pace.
Splits were:
Distant | Avg Pace | Splits
5 miles | 07:59 | 07:42/07:56/08:00/08:00/08:12
5 miles | 07:42 | 07:48/07:47/07:36/07:35/07:38
4 miles | 07:16 | 07:15/07:17/07:17/07:15
06/08/2015 - 11m @ 08:00 avg pace (MLR - Easy)
Long day including a up and back to Belfast. If I hadn't have had an unplanned rest day on Monday I could have easily canned this one. But I did so I didn't. Hit the road late and was running in the dark pretty quickly. Haven't done that in a while. All went fine and enjoyed the run once I was out. Took in the drag up to Santry then on up past DCU before returning via Griffith Ave and the coast.
Slow mile to start but had a couple of faster ones at the end that evened things out.
07/08/2015 - 7m @ 08:06 avg pace (General Aerobic w10x100m Strides)
Legs left heavy for this one and with one eye on tomorrow's LR I keep things nice and easy. I did the strides on the grass along the coast for a change and the legs felt much looser by the time I got through the first 5.
08/08/2015 - 21.4m @ 07:56 avg pace (LR - Progression)
Wasn't my normal structured progression as route/terrain didn't really allow for this. I ran the first 6/7 miles solo over to Ashtown where I met up with Yaboya. Biggest challenge for 1st section was to safely negotiate Murph's swans which I did.
After I met Yaboya everything got a little easier as the company and chat made the miles disappear much quicker. Trying to figure where we were also kept the mind occupied
We headed out the Canal then turned toward the Liffey and when we hit that we headed down river towards the PP. Hit everything for narrow canal side trails to narrow windy roads with no paths on route. Did the last few miles in PP before coffee and cakes with the novices at the visitors centre. They all looked happy out and enjoyed their miles around the park. DG appears to have them in great shape.
Will add splits later as don't have the time or patience at the mo
09/08/2015 5.5m @ 08:31 avg pace (Recovery)
Nice easy recovery run with Ferris around our old stomping ground.
All in all this was a good week with a decent LT session and LR under the belt. Two more tough week before the next recovery week though :pac:0 -
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Your coming into shape nicely M, whats the goal time for Frank Duffy?
Cheers B. 10m PB is 01:01:23 and last year FD time was 01:02:06 so nailing them to the mast Gold would be 01:00:xx , Silver would be a PB and Bronze would be better than last years result.....if I was a sandbagger I would be telling you about the 120miles or so that I still have to run between now and then and how I don't know how that will effect my chances but I am not so I will just plod through it then run like fock and see where it gets me
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Cheers B. 10m PB is 01:01:23 and last year FD time was 01:02:06 so nailing them to the mast Gold would be sub 01:00:xx , Silver would be a PB and Bronze would be better than last years result.....if I was a sandbagger I would be telling you about the 120miles or so that I still have to run between now and then and how I don't know how that will effect my chances but I am not so I will just plod through it then run like fock and see where it gets me
I meant to say to you there was a strong field around your level(60mins) at Mullingar this year, no doubt it would have helped you if you ran. Like the simple plan of run like fock & see where it gets you.0 -
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ThebitterLemon wrote: »You must be in great shape M if you targeting 1.00. That's a great position to be in at this stage. Best of luck with it.
TbL
Cheers, C. Sure if you don't dream 0 -
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dublin runner wrote: »Personally I would focus purely on effort on those progression runs. After two or three will learn how to judge the run. A worthwhile experiment if nothing else. A change of focus may be a worthwhile persuit, focusing on effort rather than the thing strapped to your arm!
I would only be really concerned with paces after a period of running by feel. If that makes any sense!
Cheers DR. Yep it makes perfect sense and it is along the lines of the way I am thinking I need to go if I want to progress.
Unfortunately, I have always (when I say always I am not at this that long) run by pace even when I only had me auld €10 Casio.
Just not sure of the timing of the change. In reality with 10 weeks to DCM I am unlikely to do it in now but I will certainly be changing things up after DCM whether I hit my target or not. As if I hit my target the "pressure" will be off and if I don't my current approach is obviously the wrong one
Thanks for the input. You seem to be hammering along nicely. Hope you get to the end of the week intact and enjoy the hols 0 -
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Cheers DR. Yep it makes perfect sense and it is along the lines of the way I am thinking I need to go if I want to progress.
Unfortunately, I have always (when I say always I am not at this that long) run by pace even when I only had me auld €10 Casio.
Just not sure of the timing of the change. In reality with 10 weeks to DCM I am unlikely to do it in now but I will certainly be changing things up after DCM whether I hit my target or not. As if I hit my target the "pressure" will be off and if I don't my current approach is obviously the wrong one
10 weeks is loads of time. You could experiment on the odd run. Wear the garmin but turn off the screen and run by feel. I go through phases of this odd time (not enough). I generally run everything at the start too fast but settle. It's a confidence thing. It's hard to separate yourself from the watch at time and trust yourself. Sometimes it goes a bit wrong but it's all about the overall development.
I would argue that 10 weeks is plenty of time but I know where you are coming from. Something to think about even if you don't feel it necessary during this cycle. You are going well, fair play.0 -
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dublin runner wrote: »10 weeks is loads of time. You could experiment on the odd run. Wear the garmin but turn off the screen and run by feel. I go through phases of this odd time (not enough). I generally run everything at the start too fast but settle. It's a confidence thing. It's hard to separate yourself from the watch at time and trust yourself. Sometimes it goes a bit wrong but it's all about the overall development.
I would argue that 10 weeks is plenty of time but I know where you are coming from. Something to think about even if you don't feel it necessary during this cycle. You are going well, fair play.
I am hearing you, DR. Might try a couple of experiments over the next couple of weeks and see how it goes.Even better again. Some light reading 4U. https://www.mcmillanrunning.com/articlePages/article/id/2/showVideo/1#article2
R you still doing the pliates classes, did you find them much help? Did 30k today but tightened up badly at the end, might need to get some yoga in
Cheer RJM. I haven't started back at Pilates beacause the class i was doing last year finished up and I haven't found another one locally yet. It is still on the agenda and I would highly recommend it. Need to find one that works for you though. I was through 3 difference class until I found one that I wanted to go back to. I have been recommend a yoga class in Drumcondra so I am going to try that next week. The back end of the LRs are where I really feel the benefit of any form of core work done.0 -
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