Meter Readings have abnormally increased

2011

techdiver wrote: »

It's funny considering the widely felt opinion that meters don't (or rarely) fail as this seems to be the second such occurrence in our block alone.

The fact remains that ESB meters are very robust and rarely fail.
Although there may be two examples of faulty meters in your apartment block that is hardly a fair representation of all of the meters installed across the country.

Anyway I hope this is resolved to your satisfaction soon.

ted1

2011 wrote: »

The fact remains that ESB meters are very robust and rarely fail.
Although there may be two examples of faulty meters in your apartment block that is hardly a fair representation of all of the meters installed across the country.

Anyway I hope this is resolved to your satisfaction soon.

I do a lot if bill verification for large energy users (bills between 5k and 2M) and have seen only seen meters fail a half dozen times.
Revenue class meters are generally fairly good.

techdiver

ted1 wrote: »

I do a lot if bill verification for large energy users (bills between 5k and 2M) and have seen only seen meters fail a half dozen times.
Revenue class meters are generally fairly good.

As a matter of interest, what is the breakdown of the meters used? Are the electronic ones more susceptible to faults?

I suppose the reason I ask is the ones in our development are electronic and in a single block of apartments 2 failed.

cast_iron

I suppose it's always possible that a "bad batch" was made with a higher than usual failure rate.

Could your electrician that called out not establish if current was flowing in or out of the mater when the main switch on your fuseboard was switched off?
I would have thought that was a relatively easy way to check for a fault. Perhaps the individual live or neutral in/out of the meter are not accessible with a grip meter?

Zen65

techdiver wrote: »

As a matter of interest, what is the breakdown of the meters used? Are the electronic ones more susceptible to faults?

I don't know the answer to that, but I do know that modern electronic meters have a much shorter life than the old electromechanical types. Something like a 70% shorter life. Cannot recall whether the issue is the battery or if there is another reason for it.

Two meters failing in the one building suggests that ESB Network bought a bad batch of meters.

Davy

Zen65 wrote: »

I don't know the answer to that, but I do know that modern electronic meters have a much shorter life than the old electromechanical types. Something like a 70% shorter life. Cannot recall whether the issue is the battery or if there is another reason for it.

Two meters failing in the one building suggests that ESB Network bought a bad batch of meters.

It would be Iskra supplying the bad batch more so than esb buying it, but ye I think the newer meters wont last as long. The old ones I think have a lifespan of at least 30 years.

The newer ones have a few different manufacturers so gets harder to differentiate from whats good or bad. Iskra, Elster, Actaris are 3 makes I can think of but think there is more out there.

ted1

techdiver wrote: »

As a matter of interest, what is the breakdown of the meters used? Are the electronic ones more susceptible to faults?

I suppose the reason I ask is the ones in our development are electronic and in a single block of apartments 2 failed.

Generally there the electric ones. Most our clients would be on quarterly hourly billing and would require comms back to Esb networks aswell as times stamping.


Just found this which covers most meters used by ESBN
http://www.energyineducation.ie/Energy_In_Education/Information_for_Schools/Resources_and_links/Factsheet_-_How_to_Read_Your_Electricity_Meter.pdf

garroff

At the meter position there should be an unsealed switchfuses on the mains going to your flat. When you check read your meter you should switch off this switch. This will ensure that your meter is not supplying landing lights, communal tv, cctv etc.

A meter check may prove the meter correct, my guess is that it will, PUT THIS DOES NOT PROVE THAT YOUR FLAT IS USING THE ELECTRICITY.
With the switch fuse off at the central meter position your meter will show no advance,,,,,,ever.
So read, switch off for a few hours and read again.
Let us know how you get on.

sawdoubters

what are they charging per kw

aircity seems to have different charges,and higher standing yearly charge


http://www.bonkers.ie/compare-gas-electricity-prices/

cast_iron

garroff wrote: »

This will ensure that your meter is not supplying landing lights, communal tv, cctv etc.

I don't think that applies in this case as the OP stated that the sharp increase in electricity use began very recently out of the blue.
It's highly unlikely that authorised work was carried out taking a supply from midway down a main incomer cable to a residential consumer unit for a landlord supply.
If this is the cause, it's more likely to be as a result of un-authorised work/theft of supply by someone. However, a faulty meter would appear a more likely culprit.

JOSman

One unit used every two hours. That's 12 units in one day. Over a month that's approximately 360 units paid for without any power being used in the apartment?

techdiver

garroff wrote: »

At the meter position there should be an unsealed switchfuses on the mains going to your flat. When you check read your meter you should switch off this switch. This will ensure that your meter is not supplying landing lights, communal tv, cctv etc.

A meter check may prove the meter correct, my guess is that it will, PUT THIS DOES NOT PROVE THAT YOUR FLAT IS USING THE ELECTRICITY.
With the switch fuse off at the central meter position your meter will show no advance,,,,,,ever.
So read, switch off for a few hours and read again.
Let us know how you get on.

I already did such tests using an Efergy Meter. The power drain is consistent from both ends.

The meter looks "banjackeds" too, as the LCD readout is becoming so faint that it is difficult to read.

We also powered down the apartment and it registered roughly 1 unit every 2 hours.

garroff

Can you get meter to stop?. When/if meter is being tested, as part of test have outgoing tails removed and
meter still energised. This will show if meter is clocking up units on no load.

techdiver

JOSman wrote: »

One unit used every two hours. That's 12 units in one day. Over a month that's approximately 360 units paid for without any power being used in the apartment?

That's exactly my findings alright. Give or take. Based on my readings cross referenced with the actual ESB meter it is running anywhere between 2.5 and 6 times our actual usage.

Date|Meter Reading|Comments
15/01/2014|15103|10am
15/01/2014|15107|12pm
15/01/2014|15108|2pm with power turned off from 12pm!
16/01/2014|15128|9am
16/01/2014|15130|4pm with power turned off all day
16/01/2014|15131|6pm with power turned off all day
17/01/2014|15146|8am. Home meter attached and it registered 6 units used between 6pm and 8am. ESB meter registered 16 units in that time
17/01/2014|15149|4pm. Home meter registered 0.5 units used, but ESB registered 3 units used.
20/01/2014|15196|3pm. From 8am on 17th - 3pm on 20th ESB meter registered 50 units. Home meter registered 16 units in this time. Looks like a factor a 3 over charge. Baseline for home meter at this time is 20.26 kWh since installation on 16th at 6pm.

techdiver

So, the ESB guys called out today and couldn't even read the meter as the LCD display had completely failed now. We had noticed it starting to fail over the last few weeks.

They have replaced it now and will send a report of the failure in.

He also stated that the electronic meters are "very" unreliable as compared to the old meters. He said with the old metres you could be 99.9% sure the meter is ok, but with the electronic ones you can't be.

At least I have confirmation that the meter was faulty. I will have to make sure that airtricity average out our usage since September based on our previous usage.

garroff

It looks like ESB Networks, the meter installer/supplier have a major problem. How many of these meters are installed?. How many will they replace?. How will they compensate this customer for the time/inconvenience caused?

ted1

I wouldn't call it a major problem

garroff

why not?

ted1

garroff wrote: »

why not?

Why So? I don't think that there is that many meters being affected for it to be called a major issue

garroff

Agree. If there are few of these meters on the system....no problem. But as a billing company the last thing you want is for your customers to doubt the accuracy of the meters.
Networks will know exactly how many and the location of this type of meter.

techdiver

Does anyone know what exactly the process is from here?

I assume it's impossible to diagnose when exactly the meter started to fail from physical inspection.

We can show our average usage before moving to Airtricity, so how will the re-evaluation work?

frankmul

I would guess that it would be based on your previous usage.

techdiver

frankmul wrote: »

I would guess that it would be based on your previous usage.

My worry is that the anomalies are dating back as far as September. Our previous Electric Ireland bills will show our previous average usage over a year.

frankmul

I would say that they should be easy to deal with, their equipment failed, it would be very hard to prove when it did or did not fail. The only thing that both sides
could agree on is your past usage
Keep us posted on the outcome

cast_iron

techdiver wrote: »

Does anyone know what exactly the process is from here?

I assume it's impossible to diagnose when exactly the meter started to fail from physical inspection.

We can show our average usage before moving to Airtricity, so how will the re-evaluation work?

It should be clear enough from past usage when the faulty meter started playing up. There's always a chance the electricity provider will try to claim ignorance, drag it on and not be reasonable. Just be firm and take no nonsense from them. It's a fairly open and shut case, I would have thought.

ted1

cast_iron wrote: »

It should be clear enough from past usage when the faulty meter started playing up. There's always a chance the electricity provider will try to claim ignorance, drag it on and not be reasonable. Just be firm and take no nonsense from them. It's a fairly open and shut case, I would have thought.

The issue would be with networks, they provide the readings to the supplier.
OP don't forget you replaced all you incandescent lamps with LEDs in October

freddyuk

freddyuk wrote: »

Seems odd the meter went faulty after changing suppliers as said before but it does appear to be something badly wrong.
I am sure you have been cutting back on your usage over the last few months due to the increasing prices so in fact your recent average consumption will be less than your previous average bills so of course you cannot base any refund on previous usage..... I would expect if the meter is found to be faulty there will be compensation on top of any refund for the time you have spent tracing the fault. I would also be taking photos of readings with supply off ensuring the meter number (MPAN) is on there to back any claim........

I tried that suggestion but it seemed to go over the heads! :rolleyes:

techdiver

freddyuk wrote: »

I tried that suggestion but it seemed to go over the heads! :rolleyes:

A serious blond moment from me, I must admit!

techdiver

Ok,

So over a week has passed since my new meter was installed and I was anxious to find out what the process is from here. I had heard nothing from either party (Airtricity or ESB) and once again had to go chasing up.

I called Airtricity first and had to go though my story again with some one who basically told me that the ESB have to submit the report and it could take up to 3 months for this to happen. I was told to call the ESB for them to explain how this works.

So... I call ESB and once again was met with the phone call equivalent of a blank stare when I asked them about this. When I asked who/what/how this report is done, there was no proper answer, i.e. the person on the phone didn't know. For a finish the person put a ticket through to the local office and they called me back today.

My optimism for the call quickly evaporated as the person on the phone stated the same thing. It will take a number of weeks/months etc. I found the lady a bit dissmissive and snotty on the phone and quite argumentative!

The following is a rough transcript of the highlights (lowlights) of the call:

Me: Since the meter was replaced how do we reconcile the overcharge etc?
ESB: ESB will be in contact with your supplier and they will work it out.
Me: But how will this be calculated and will I receive a copy of this report?
ESB: Don't know how this is worked out and you won't receive a copy of the report. It goes directly to your supplier.
Me: I'm sure the burden of proof is on the ESB to provide concrete evidence as to our usage?
ESB: No that's up to your supplier.
Me: Eh?? But ESB own the meters and provide usage statistics to suppliers.
ESB: Eh... Kinda yes.
Me: Well, does that not mean that you would need to prove my usage and not my billing company?
ESB: No, your supplier bills you...
Me: Sigh....
Me: ESB provide the meter readings...
ESB: Yes
Me: So would that not indicate that you (ESB) control what I am changed in reality?
ESB: Supplier, supplier, rabble rabble.
Me: So, can you tell me exactly how you are going to calculate my usage?
ESB: Not really, they probably calculate based on your current usage over the next few months.
Me: I would not be happy with that as our usage will have gone up since the start of January due to changes in family circumstances (new baby, wife just started maternity leave, at home all day etc), so billing us based on that would be inaccurate.
ESB: (Snotty tone) Well you can present that case so.
Me: TO WHO?? you keep telling me you don't know who does the calculation, where it gets done, how it is done, but you tell me I can present me case??
ESB: (begrudging tone) Well, ok, I'll try and find some more information for you.... But not today it'll be next week, because I don't have time today....
Me: Ok. (I give up!)

That was some ordeal!

Fred Swanson

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