Off-topic posts from "Glut of repossessed houses" thread

MysticalRain

The_Conductor wrote: »

Guys- less of the sniping at one another, personalising of posts, snide comments and general snarkiness- its very offputting to most people and generally lowers the tone of the whole forum- while discouraging genuine people from posting.

I'm getting blue in the face saying this- and people's previous good form posting in this forum has in many instances meant we've given you a little more latitude than we normally might do- but a lot of the language, comments, sentiment and personalisation of posts in this thread (and in other threads)- is actively discouraging genuine discourse by interested posters.

Gentle prods on thread to tone down contributions has been ignored by some posters- the gentle approach has obviously not worked, and a harder, more firm approach will ensure.

Regards,

The_Conductor

It might be also be a good idea to raise the quality of the debate by cracking down on some contributors here deliberate posting misinformation - like claiming the Irish property market is a "free market" despite all evidence to the contrary. All it does at this point is get people's backs up, and it's not the kind of behaviour that would be tolerated in other forums on boards.ie.

The_Morrigan

MysticalRain wrote: »

It might be also be a good idea to raise the quality of the debate by cracking down on some contributors here deliberate posting misinformation - like claiming the Irish property market is a "free market" despite all evidence to the contrary. All it does at this point is get people's backs up, and it's not the kind of behaviour that would be tolerated in other forums on boards.ie.

Please don't derail the thread. If you wish to discuss a mod instruction or warning pm the individual mod or the entire mod team.

Thanks.

The_Conductor

MysticalRain wrote: »

It might be also be a good idea to raise the quality of the debate by cracking down on some contributors here deliberate posting misinformation - like claiming the Irish property market is a "free market" despite all evidence to the contrary. All it does at this point is get people's backs up, and it's not the kind of behaviour that would be tolerated in other forums on boards.ie.

If you disagree with what another poster posts- refute it factually- and you have no shortage of hard facts to support your point of view, so it shouldn't be difficult to do.

Perhaps there are people out there who genuinely hold an opposing point of view- even if we know in our hearts and souls that they are insanity personified, perhaps it might be educational to try to investigate how they came to their point of view- rather than simply shutting them down.

I'm of the view that different people having different beliefs is a good thing- and that we all learn from one another through trying to understand where the other person is coming from.

I will not tolerate snarky, snide, personalised posts or putdowns though- if a person isn't mature enough to debate in a civilised manner- they have no place here.

If you disagree with what another poster posts- and don't want to publicly refute it- use the report post function- and the moderators can decide what (if anything) is an appropriate course of action.

Remaining civil towards one another- even when we hold opposing viewpoints- should not be so hard.

MysticalRain

The_Conductor wrote: »

If you disagree with what another poster posts- refute it factually- and you have no shortage of hard facts to support your point of view, so it shouldn't be difficult to do.

Perhaps there are people out there who genuinely hold an opposing point of view- even if we know in our hearts and souls that they are insanity personified, perhaps it might be educational to try to investigate how they came to their point of view- rather than simply shutting them down.

I'm of the view that different people having different beliefs is a good thing- and that we all learn from one another through trying to understand where the other person is coming from.

I will not tolerate snarky, snide, personalised posts or putdowns though- if a person isn't mature enough to debate in a civilised manner- they have no place here.

If you disagree with what another poster posts- and don't want to publicly refute it- use the report post function- and the moderators can decide what (if anything) is an appropriate course of action.

I think it is evident to anybody reading this forum that these kinds of posts are of routinely refuted with an abundance of facts by myself and others here. Often without the OP bothering to even reply, and then turning up on the same thread again at a later point to post the same claims all over again (which begs the question of why you would bother educating these people in the first place). Occasionally, I do report some of the more egregious examples.

I’m all for the intellectual stimulation of reading other people’s counter-factual opinions on internet forums – the crazier they are, the more entertaining they tend to be. But I guess what it really boils down to is the purpose of the forum itself (from my perspective as a potential FTB trying to educate myself on the Irish property market). Is it merely an entertaining and ultimately pointless way to waste time on the internet, or should it act as alternative resource for information on the property market to the national media, which is horribly tainted by vested interests?

Remaining civil towards one another- even when we hold opposing viewpoints- should not be so hard.

I see this argument from mods on many forums, and it always strikes me as a classic example of treating the symptom and not the cause. There would be far less uncivil behaviour on threads like these if mods simply stepped in a little more often to ask posters with controversial opinions to simply back them up with facts instead of asking those trying to respond to do so (despite the fact that they already do this anyway). The mods on the Economics and Politics forums tend to use that approach to reduce the signal to noise on threads and keep them on track. Oh well, maybe it's back to watching RTE, and reading the Sunday Independent for crazy counter-factual opinions on the Irish property market.

The_Conductor

I accept- I have been a little too lenient and have erred on the side of allowing arguments run their course when perhaps being stricter might have been more purposeful. This is at least why I posted my warning earlier today- because I too am unhappy at how things have progressed (both in this thread but also elsewhere).

Ps- The Economist do a good quarterly property survey, even the Business Post, despite being a lot tamer than it used be, can be quite impartial. Keeping an eye on CSO stats and Central Bank trends- is also a good way to keep tabs on whats happening.

gaius c

MysticalRain wrote: »

I see this argument from mods on many forums, and it always strikes me as a classic example of treating the symptom and not the cause. There would be far less uncivil behaviour on threads like these if mods simply stepped in a little more often to ask posters with controversial opinions to simply back them up with facts instead of asking those trying to respond to do so (despite the fact that they already do this anyway). The mods on the Economics and Politics forums tend to use that approach to reduce the signal to noise on threads and keep them on track. Oh well, maybe it's back to watching RTE, and reading the Sunday Independent for crazy counter-factual opinions on the Irish property market.

The thread this was split off is 172 pages long with lots of traffic that's impossible to keep track of. It reminds me of the old bulls/bears hotpoint thread on AAM before the "night of the long knives" took out all the bears who dared to list a mod's own house in the price drops thread (but that's all ancient history now). Usually when a mod gets a report, it's because somebody like your good self (just using you as an example) has blown a fuse at some spectacular example of stupidity that may or may not be mild-trolling. It's you who'll get smacked, not the troll because they see your apparently OTT response to what looks like a silly but not offensive post.

Boards is heavily moderated so straight-out trolling will see your foruming career here be a short one but more subtle trolls with a somewhat simple-minded and innocent persona can last quite a long time before folk cotton on to what they are doing. And before that happens, they get lots of other people in trouble with mods.

The correct thing to do is keep a little black book of all their silly posts and show the obvious (in the bigger picture) trend of trolling. Eh no, just report the posts where the troll gets a little cocky and pushes the envelope just that bit too far and eventually mods will realise "hey, this guy is generating a lot of reports and peppering their posts with snide remarks that over time irritate people". And then they get invited to change their ways or get banned.
Simples.

The_Conductor

We do review *all* reports received (and typically in Accommodation and Property we get a 6-10 a day, many often reporting the same post). I don't have an issue with someone who repeatedly reports posts- *providing you clearly state a good reason for reporting the post*- and something along the lines of 'X is really pissing the living hell out of everyone' (which is one of the reasons received recently)- is not a valid reason for reporting a post.

Also- I'd like to point out- there are some serial offendors out there, who are annoying the crap out of everyone. When you decide enough is enough- pick one of their inflammatory posts to report- if you decide to report a relatively innocuous one- I'm not going to do anything about (that post- though I will pay more attention to the person).

Low grade trollers- are noticed, often if you think we're doing nothing about it, we could simply be allowing them the opportunity to go hang themselves- which inevitably they do.

If we see people blatantly abusing the opportunity to post in the forum- and we don't have a valid reason to exclude them- often the moderators will sit down and discuss whether it might be appropriate to have a fresh look at the forum charter to knock whatever the issue is on the head- and so we have a valid reason for shooting it down, should it recur.

I'd also like to emphasise- the 3 moderators, Victor, The_Morrigan and myself (The_Conductor)- are all approachable- and if you believe that we have overlooked something and would like us to take a look at it again- PM us- we are human, sometimes we make mistakes- giving us a heads-up can be necessary sometimes.

The_Morrigan

Just to reiterate what The_Conductor has said we are always available via pm and we do always review and have a natter amongst ourselves with regards to reported posts.

Gauis also touched on an important issue too...this is a busy forum and we can't read every post in every thread. We rely on the posters to bring any issues to our attention, we can't act without your help as we may miss some 'bold' posts. If you don't feel you can report a post then please pm us.

gaius c

The_Conductor wrote: »

'X is really pissing the living hell out of everyone'

Oh yeah, sorry about that lads.
Group hug?