Irish politician Patrick O'Donovan of the Fine Gael party has called for a crackdown

Spear · 15-01-2014 1:42am #1

http://www.finegael.ie/latest-news/2013/odonovan-calls-for-crackd/index.xml

I'm surprised this hasn't turned up on here, and I had to see it on Slashdot. But there you go, someone else to rival the infamous Sean Sherlock for using words he doesn't understand.

Johnboy1951 · 15-01-2014 12:05pm

Thanks for the post ...... I had not heard of this.

For those who wish to express their opinion on his statement I suggest using one or more means of communicating with him provided here

http://www.patrickodonovan.ie/index.php/contact/

I would also suggest that Fine Gael could be contacted on the matter .....

http://www.finegael.ie/contact-us/

It is quite some time since I read anything, prepared & deliberately released, that was as ridiculous as this.

This puts the stupidity bar rather high for the rest of this year!
I suppose someone will exceed it ..... but they will have to aim very high to succeed!

croo · 15-01-2014 12:39pm

I hadn't seen this either until you posted, thanks Spear.

This puts the stupidity bar rather high for the rest of this year!

Yeah, my initial thought was unbelievable, how stupid can they be... but then I remembered.
I'm sure everyone outside Ireland will have a good laugh, but as someone living here, and supporting open source, I find it rather chilling - it is rather scary!

Antigrav · 15-01-2014 3:23pm

Spear wrote: »

http://www.finegael.ie/latest-news/2014/odonovan-calls-for-crackd/index.xml

Fixed link

Johnboy1951 · 15-01-2014 3:30pm

Antigrav wrote: »

Fixed link

Hehehehe .... they moved the page from 2013 to 2014 on the site

Spear · 15-01-2014 3:44pm

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Hehehehe .... they moved the page from 2013 to 2014 on the site

He must also double as their web admin.

Grudaire · 15-01-2014 4:10pm

Nice spot Spear..

I'll definitely be emailling him (and my local FGer) about this.

I love how he mentions that US Authorities have 'moved against' things like this... I doubt he knows that the Tor brouser is largely funded by US authorities...

mach1982 · 15-01-2014 4:40pm

He must wrote that while in Dail bar .

mach1982 · 15-01-2014 4:46pm

just sent him a tweet with this link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open-source_software.

[-0-] · 15-01-2014 5:19pm

He might be talking about this: http://boingboing.net/2013/10/11/w3cs-drm-for-html5-sets-the.html

PrzemoF · 16-01-2014 12:13pm

"Irish politician Patrick O'Donovan of the Fine Gael party has called for a crackdown on open-source browsers, calling them a gateway to an 'online black market' filled with 'illegal goods such as drugs, weapons and pornography' - but may, perhaps, be merely confused as to his terminology."

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/bits/2014/01/15/fine-gael-browser-crackdown/1

Stuxnet · 16-01-2014 1:41pm

OMG F*****G clueless

Johnboy1951 · 16-01-2014 3:39pm

Our fault ........ we elect 'them' .......

croo · 16-01-2014 5:22pm

Threads merged

Grudaire · 17-01-2014 10:12am

FYI Common sense statement from the Greens:

https://www.facebook.com/GreenPartyIreland/posts/10152497827158066?stream_ref=10

Meanwhile other countries get a chuckle!

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/bits/2014/01/15/fine-gael-browser-crackdown/1

Steveire · 18-01-2014 12:30pm

I found the /. thread:

http://tech.slashdot.org/story/14/01/14/2253228/irish-politician-calls-for-crackdown-on-open-source-internet-browsers

He's clearly talking about particular open source software, ie the Tor Browser Bundle and .onion domains/Silk Road etc. He's not talking about open source software in general. No mention of that on /. or on this thread.

Quite a stupid response from both this thread and /. if you ask me.

Oh, actually Tor is mentioned on the /. thread. My bad.

hardCopy · 18-01-2014 1:07pm

Steveire wrote: »

I found the /. thread:

http://tech.slashdot.org/story/14/01/14/2253228/irish-politician-calls-for-crackdown-on-open-source-internet-browsers

He's clearly talking about particular open source software, ie the Tor Browser Bundle and .onion domains/Silk Road etc. He's not talking about open source software in general. No mention of that on /. or on this thread.

Quite a stupid response from both this thread and /. if you ask me.

Oh, actually Tor is mentioned on the /. thread. My bad.

Tor is not mentioned in the Fine Geal press release, therein lies the stupid.

croo · 18-01-2014 3:20pm

He's clearly talking about particular open source software, ie the Tor Browser Bundle

He never mention Tor... that he might mean that is purely speculation.

"Open Source" is the primary adjective he uses to describe the software ... but the fact that the software is Open Source is of no relevance. And most the web is run on Open Source software, if we got rid of it we'd most probably not have any web... probably something most rulers would like.

Plus, we all know [or should know if we're going to comment on the matter] that
1. Tor offers no true anonymity, and
2. The US goverment is a big sponsor of it
Will O'Donovan call for a crackdown on the USA?
No, of course he won't. The truth is, this is just more of the usual fear mongering - it's not like the country has nothing else to really be worrying about.

Did O'Donovan ever ask himself why the Tor was created at all? I mean, it's not as if the crime lords of the world commisioned the software! I'm sure they have their own truly [for the moment at least] secure communication methods.

By all means let O'Donovan call for the banning of anoymous web & payments - but then let him call for the banning of anoymous payments like paper money and the use of anything other than clear envelopes & the registering of mobile phones to ensure that no communications can be private & secure. Absurd suggestions right? Well so are his.

I spent most of my adult life living outside Ireland so never took much interest in its politics. Since I returned and took notice have I've realised that the old "blue shirt" nickname is still well deserved.

Steveire · 19-01-2014 4:19pm

hardCopy wrote: »

Tor is not mentioned in the Fine Geal press release, therein lies the stupid.

Why does he have to mention Tor by name? Why does not doing so make him 'stupid'?

It's a politician talking and the target audience is not techies - it's not techie writing for techies.

You are an expert in the subject matter (assuming you made the TBB connection in your head off-thread before I made it?), and you're judging the politician by framing him with your techie expectations. That's your mistake.

When politicians talk about roads they don't talk about gravel ratios, drainage etc. Civil engineers don't get self-righteous and call them stupid as you are doing.

This politician was told about how 'the darknet' or something similarly scary sounding facilitates criminality. Yes, it's dual-use - so what? This politician is talking about criminality. He is definitely not 'stupid' for not mentioning TBB by name. The language is not ambiguous or confusing. He doesn't call for a crackdown on all open source software.

open source internet browsers and payment systems *which* allow users to remain anonymous in the illegal trade of drugs, weapons and pornography

Your confusion in reading is your stupidity, not his. Feel free to also look for connecting phrases like 'through the use of' and 'open-source internet browsers *which* protect anonymity *in order to facilitate illegal online activity*'.

The only actual problem seems to be 'browsers' in the last paragraph, which should be 'websites' or similar for that press release.

croo, it doesn't matter if Tor is exactly what he meant. The point is that he was talking about software *which facilitates*. That it is open source is indeed irrelevant.

Grudaire · 19-01-2014 4:22pm

Steveire wrote: »

croo, it doesn't matter if Tor is exactly what he meant. The point is that he was talking about software *which facilitates*. That it is open source is indeed irrelevant.

So you're saying that closed source software cannot facilitate crime and anonymity?

Johnboy1951 · 19-01-2014 4:38pm

When politicians talk about roads they don't talk about gravel ratios, drainage etc. Civil engineers don't get self-righteous and call them stupid as you are doing.

Would you think that politician was stupid if he referred to a laneway or minor road as a motorway?

If our politicians wish to issue press releases then it is incumbent on THEM to get it right ....... or suffer the ridicule they so deserve!

Steveire · 19-01-2014 6:31pm

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

If our politicians wish to issue press releases then it is incumbent on THEM to get it right ....... or suffer the ridicule they so deserve!

This is the self-righteousness I mentioned before.

Grudaire, your interpretation is intriguing and revealing.

Grudaire · 19-01-2014 7:13pm

Steveire wrote: »

This is the self-righteousness I mentioned before.

Grudaire, your interpretation is intriguing and revealing.

croo · 20-01-2014 9:45am

Steveire wrote: »

That it is open source is indeed irrelevant.

Well I'm glad we got that straight anyway!

Steveire wrote: »

The language is not ambiguous or confusing. He doesn't call for a crackdown on all open source software.

open source internet browsers and payment systems *which* allow users to remain anonymous in the illegal trade of drugs, weapons and pornography

Your confusion in reading is your stupidity, not his.

Actually i think it is you that is misunderstanding.
The use of which is a non-restrictive clause that adds additional information. His statement called for the control of open source internet browsers and added the additional information that they are used in the illegal trade of drugs, weapons and pornography.

Whether he, and you, meant that is another matter.

Steveire wrote: »

croo, it doesn't matter if Tor is exactly what he meant. The point is that he was talking about software *which facilitates*. That it is open source is indeed irrelevant.

He might have been, I haven't completed my mind reading course yet, all I know is what he wrote. He writes not of software but of open source software.

The sad thing is, to the non techie you say he was addressing, open source is often viewed with skepticism. Why is the free? Is it bad? Is it a scam? When people, ignorant of the facts, make authoritative statements like this, which are in fact false, it only makes it harder for those promoting open source. And open source is, in my opinion, an important freedom worth promoting.

Steveire · 20-01-2014 11:16am

He writes not of software but of open source software.

It's just an adjective.

His statement called for the control of open source internet browsers

It truly amazes me that that is what you get from http://www.finegael.ie/latest-news/2014/odonovan-calls-for-crackd/index.xml, for the same reasons of "meaning of words and phrases" ('which' and 'in order to') that I pointed out before. You simply believe what you want to believe.

Your choice of interpreting what he writes continues to surprise me, as I wrote before, especially your chosen interpretation of "non-restrictive clause that adds additional information". Wierd. You think I'm the one making assumptions. You're assuming a non-common meaning of 'which facilitates'.

I assume he specifies 'open source' as the adjective because it is easy available, not because it is 'bad' or 'a scam'. Wierd.

Anyway, enjoy whatever you want to believe about words! I personally don't think it's healthy for Free Software to be such a snarling bunch of reflexive self-righteous hyenas. As I pointed out before, I see only one word that was not-ideally chosen.

Grudaire · 20-01-2014 11:36am

Steveire wrote: »

I assume he specifies 'open source' as the adjective because it is easy available, not because it is 'bad' or 'a scam'. Wierd.

Anyway, enjoy whatever you want to believe about words! I personally don't think it's healthy for Free Software to be such a snarling bunch of reflexive self-righteous hyenas. As I pointed out before, I see only one word that was not-ideally chosen.

The irony is that the use of 'black' or 'asian' as an adjective would be unquestionably attacked even if the person specified that they were talking about 'black people who rape and steal'. It is with this logic that I disagree with the irrelevant use of 'open-source' in O'Donovans statement.

"a snarling bunch of reflexive self-righteous hyenas." ... Tbh you're the one who is most snarling and self-righteous here..

croo · 20-01-2014 11:48am

Steveire wrote: »

It's just an adjective.

It truly amazes me that that is what you get from http://www.finegael.ie/latest-news/2014/odonovan-calls-for-crackd/index.xml, for the same reasons of "meaning of words and phrases" ('which' and 'in order to') that I pointed out before. You simply believe what you want to believe.

Your choice of interpreting what he writes continues to surprise me, as I wrote before, especially your chosen interpretation of "non-restrictive clause that adds additional information". Wierd. You think I'm the one making assumptions. You're assuming a non-common meaning of 'which facilitates'.

I assume he specifies 'open source' as the adjective because it is easy available, not because it is 'bad' or 'a scam'. Wierd.

Anyway, enjoy whatever you want to believe about words! I personally don't think it's healthy for Free Software to be such a snarling bunch of reflexive self-righteous hyenas. As I pointed out before, I see only one word that was not-ideally chosen.

It's not a case of interpretation but of English.
http://www.writersdigest.com/online-editor/which-vs-that

No need to be abusive just because you cannot argue your point.

Johnboy1951 · 20-01-2014 1:52pm

I assume he specifies 'open source' as the adjective because it is easy available, not because it is 'bad' or 'a scam'. Wierd.

What makes you believe your assumptions are any more accurate than anyone else's reading of the piece?

Irish politician Patrick O'Donovan of the Fine Gael party has called for a crackdown

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