Central Remedial Clinic debacle

steddyeddy

For Forks Sake wrote: »

Don't let facts get in the way of a good rant.

http://cpi.transparency.org/cpi2013/results/

Actually I don't believe that twaddle for a second. Some of the sh1t I have seen going on in this country rivals some developing nations.

donegal__road

This scandal is a new all time low, and the board members who are complicit in this can have no defense. The public gave generously to this charity for years, on the understanding that the money collected would benefit sick children.

Whether Kiely & co. give the money back or not, they are now disgraced forever... I feel sorry for their families.

Busted Flat.

donegal__road wrote: »

This scandal is an all new low and the board members who are complicit in this can have no defense. The public gave generously to this charity for years, on the understanding that the money collected would benefit sick children.

Whether Kiely & co. give the money back or not, they are now disgraced forever... I feel sorry for their families.

Why feel sorry for their families, they were living off the fat of the land.
Private schools on the backs of invalid kids, get a grip.

tayto lover

donegal__road wrote: »

This scandal is an all new low and the board members who are complicit in this can have no defense. The public gave generously to this charity for years, on the understanding that the money collected would benefit sick children.

Whether Kiely & co. give the money back or not, they are now disgraced forever... I feel sorry for their families.

I feel sorry for the families of the sick children, the collectors who stood out in all weathers and the staff who were relying on these donations.
These CEO's and their families benefited from it and not those it was intended to help.

Hitchens

Busted Flat. wrote: »

Get a grip it was Noonan

donegal__road

Busted Flat. wrote: »

Why feel sorry for their families, they were living off the fat of the land.
Private schools on the backs of invalid kids, get a grip.

I suppose what I meant is these guys families might not feel entirely comfortable or safe to go out and about as normal, because of the sins of their fathers, so to speak.

LynnGrace

tayto lover wrote: »

I feel sorry for the families of the sick children, the collectors who stood out in all weathers and the staff who were relying on these donations.
These CEO's and their families benefited from it and not those it was intended to help.

Saw some elderly volunteers at Christmas, in the local shopping centre, selling the CRC teddy bears. People passed by, without a second glance, whereas in previous years, I am sure, they would have donated.
This story has revealed a cynicism at the heart of these organisations that is very very hard to take. Sadly, I don't believe anything will change, and those with the huge top ups, and pension pots will walk away, unscathed.

steddyeddy

donegal__road wrote: »

I suppose what I meant is these guys families might not feel entirely comfortable or safe to go out and about as normal, because of the sins of their fathers, so to speak.

You would be surprised really. Haughey's family have little or no shame considering the still own an island!!

Stojkovic

For Forks Sake wrote: »

Don't let facts get in the way of a good rant.

http://cpi.transparency.org/cpi2013/results/

Oh you believe something you read.
Have you read the Warren Commission ?

mike65

Irish corruption is modest set against say Italy or Greece but looks awful besides Denmark or Sweden (who no doubt have their own little scandals), not that comparisons are required - dealing with the "cvnt class" who expect to get away with enriching themselves on the publics money is where we should spend our energy.

pache

tayto lover wrote: »

It really is time for a big round-up in this country.

So does this mean we are ready to give sinn fein an opportunity to clean the place up??....i mean lets face it they just couldnt be any lower than the lowest of the low we have at the mo allowing the direct neglect of children who need all the support the state can and should be providing.

Jonkenji

I've seen first hand through a family member the work that CRC frontline staff do for people with cerebral palsy and spina bifida. I believe the damage to CRC's reputation now is far worse than the sum of money involved (€740,000 all the same) and what Paul Kiely has done to those poor patients now by destroying CRC's reputation for the sake of personal greed is frankly disgusting. It almost makes me want to throw up. I sincerely hope justice will be served upon him.

Busted Flat.

mike65 wrote: »

Irish corruption is modest set against say Italy or Greece but looks awful besides Denmark or Sweden (who no doubt have their own little scandals), not that comparisons are required - dealing with the "cvnt class" who expect to get away with enriching themselves on the publics money is where we should spend our energy.

There is no excuse for the low life stealing from the sick and invalid to enrich the creeps that got to the top of the heap through corruption. There is no comparison. Comparing other countries is a non runner, just an excuse.

FouxDaFaFa

As amusing as it is to see the CEO squirm his way through bull**** like "I was on my honeymoon", it's absolutely ridiculous.

It goes beyond the CRC too. Afaik, we don't have a regulatory body that monitors charities.

It trickles all the way down to a local level. I'm from Galway, I work in the city and I see the same people at regular positions throughout the city collecting for The Hanly Centre and the Asthma Society. These people are paid a living wage to collect the money. They make about 500e a week each.

The general public does not know this. We like to believe that charities are actually more concerned with being charities than being businesses.

There is a charity called "Charity:Water" that uses 100% of public donations for charitable projects. If you donate X amount, they can trace what your money was used for.

They have a second, separate account for admin costs and wages and this is funded by angel investors and rich entrepreneurs who want to feel good about themselves (or want tax breaks). Surely, this kind of model is not too much of a stretch for us.

We need a strict regulator who holds no prisoners and who regularly audits charities (including religious organisations that hold charitable status) in order to ensure there is no wrongdoing.

The current system makes it incredibly easy to embezzle money and carry out a number of other serious financial crimes. It's not good enough.

Wind In The Willows

Lets get real here folks, this type of under the counter dealing and playing fast and loose with public monies is nothing new, neither in the public or private /voluntary sector. Just that it's getting an airing now at the instigation of the Fine Gael and Labour coalition (masquerading as our government) in order to divert attention from their own shambolic management of this country and because their own hands are clean..for once , it appears.
I'm not defending any of the voluntary sector CEO's or their Boards or the HSE for that matter but it suits Kenny, Reilly, Hogan & Co to have the spotlight shone elsewhere rather than on their own tawdry shenanigans - think Irish Water and the €50m nobody knows about, think overruns in Health Budget, think Water Charges, think all the broken pre election promises, think Eirgrid running roughshod over rural communities in the south east etc, think cuts to social services etc etc..... Nice diversion this CRC stuff !
And boy aren't Deputies Ross, McDonald,McGuinness and a few low profile faceless back bench hangers on loving the spotlight ! Were there to be a sniff of FG/Labour(or FF for that matter) involvement or imprimatur to any of the shady goings on in these voluntary agencies, would there be such a feeding frenzy on the mis-management of these agencies?? I wonder would Deputy Ross and Deputy McDonald be as liberal with their accusations of lying etc were they not to have the protection of Dail privilege - innocent until guilty indeed !
I suppose it will all help Deputy Ross's re-election campaign whenever the time comes( west Brit and pompous self righteousness goes down well in Dublin South it seems - slip on the Blueshirt, Deputy), as will Deputy McDonald's own dubious Shinner baggage be helpfully assuaged/forgotten from her new found moral high ground, a crowded place these days for populist wannabe's ! And as for Deputy McGuinness,in his lofty position as chair of this august committee and lately a FF convert to fiscal governance , it wasnt that long ago since he was advocating that we, willing taxpayers that we are, should pony up not alone TD junkets but lets pay for the WAGS to tag along as well !
Are we really taken in by all this diversion, while Kenny and his government trample our country and our spirit underfoot so that himself, Noonan etc can be proclaimed the wunderkind of Europe and snuggle lap dog like at the feet of Frau Merkel and Messers Rehn, Schauble, Barroso et al
Roll on 2016 or perhaps sooner when ordinary folk get to do our own interrogation of the honourable deputies and pass our own judgements ! Then again, this is Local & European Election year is'nt it ??? Lets start now !!!

Wind In The Willows

tayto lover wrote: »

It really is time for a big round-up in this country.

Include politicians in that Tayto Lover !:D

diomed

We need a Charity Regulator NOW.
It would help if the word "charity" was restricted to organisations that do charitable work.
The other businesses should be obliged to use the word "SCAM" in their title and in all their advertising and approaches to the public.

kippy

I have no idea why we have so many of these chairitable organisations n the first place. The running cost to pay these leeches are astounding.

Phill Ewinn

diomed wrote: »

We need a Charity Regulator NOW.
It would help if the word "charity" was restricted to organisations that do charitable work.
The other businesses should be obliged to use the word "SCAM" in their title and in all their advertising and approaches to the public.

Ah yeah. Lets employ one, a load of staff, a building shure, generous pensions all 'round.


What we need to do is make the gardy do their fcuking jobs properly.

Potatoeman

feargale wrote: »

All this charity stuff is a cop out by the government, who should be doing all this work and paying for it by extra taxation. That can't be done here because the rich would be severely tapped, unlike the present situation where poor suckers pay disproportionately to charities.

I remember a c4 documentary a few years ago about this western attitude where it looked at how developing countries deal with this versus developed.
The developing countries would see it as a community responsibility and people would take turns helping out where in the west people expected the government to get professionals to do it. The problem being training insuring and paying these people is expensive and people dont want increased taxes.

Wind In The Willows

Another aspect of this debacle is the question of audit ? Where do the charity's auditors ( internal or external ) fit into this ? Asleep on the job or just turning a blind eye ? The governance gaps are so glaringly obvious , did nobody shout stop ? See no evil, hear no evil etc etc. Also as an agency under the aegis of the HSE, how come routine HSE or Dept of Health oversight of voluntary agencies (part funded from the health budget ) failed to uncover the goings on in CRC , rather than allowing these thrill seeking TD's the dubious credit of exposing what's happening now ?

tritium

Wind In The Willows wrote: »

Another aspect of this debacle is the question of audit ? Where do the charity's auditors ( internal or external ) fit into this ? Asleep on the job or just turning a blind eye ? The governance gaps are so glaringly obvious , did nobody shout stop ? See no evil, hear no evil etc etc. Also as an agency under the aegis of the HSE, how come routine HSE or Dept of Health oversight of voluntary agencies (part funded from the health budget ) failed to uncover the goings on in CRC , rather than allowing these thrill seeking TD's the dubious credit of exposing what's happening now ?

I'm pretty sure it was a routine HSE audit that first uncovered this. Then the useless lads and lassies of the PAC jumped on the bandwagon for some political showboating as usual

Cantona's Collars

Scandal after scandal get's uncovered in this country and nobody goes to jail.If anyone does it's for trivial things such as contempt of court.
Unfortunately this will be forgotten about as the next scandal pops up,no lessons learned.Just look at the Anglo Tapes scenario,if that happened in the States,there'd be at least 2 bankers behind bars for 20 years each.Not in Ireland though,all we get are cries of contracts,historical events & we can't do anything about it.The same judicial system jailed a man for 6 years for improper declarations on the importation of garlic.Fraud is fraud and there should be no discrimination (unless they are friends of the government:rolleyes: )

Fishyfreak

My nephew has a serious disability and would regularly use the CRC for their services. The CRC used to send a bus to collect him and other patients (he lives in Swords) and take them back home after the physio/swimming etc.

Last year my sister in law received a letter from the CRC advising that they could no longer afford to fund this pickup service.

Shame on the Board, Chairman and the senior executives. They are scum.

Potatoeman

zerks wrote: »

Scandal after scandal get's uncovered in this country and nobody goes to jail.If anyone does it's for trivial things such as contempt of court.
Unfortunately this will be forgotten about as the next scandal pops up,no lessons learned.Just look at the Anglo Tapes scenario,if that happened in the States,there'd be at least 2 bankers behind bars for 20 years each.Not in Ireland though,all we get are cries of contracts,historical events & we can't do anything about it.The same judicial system jailed a man for 6 years for improper declarations on the importation of garlic.Fraud is fraud and there should be no discrimination (unless they are friends of the government:rolleyes: )

I dont think they do deserve jail. They knew the regularor was incompetent and they could spin him lies to get what they wanted. They should not be able to influence the FR so easily.

Cantona's Collars

Potatoeman wrote: »

I dont think they do deserve jail. They knew the regularor was incompetent and they could spin him lies to get what they wanted. They should not be able to influence the FR so easily.

If you were collecting for charity and getting paid x amount but decided to conceal even more money that you collected all for yourself what would you expect to happen if you got caught.Let him spin it however he wants,the extra money he took was basically theft.

donegal__road

zerks wrote: »

Scandal after scandal get's uncovered in this country and nobody goes to jail.If anyone does it's for trivial things such as contempt of court.
Unfortunately this will be forgotten about as the next scandal pops up,no lessons learned.Just look at the Anglo Tapes scenario,if that happened in the States,there'd be at least 2 bankers behind bars for 20 years each.Not in Ireland though,all we get are cries of contracts,historical events & we can't do anything about it.The same judicial system jailed a man for 6 years for improper declarations on the importation of garlic.Fraud is fraud and there should be no discrimination (unless they are friends of the government:rolleyes: )

If it was China, they would already have been executed.

michael999999

Where is michael martins statement?

Someone needs to give the Fianna fail rats nest a kick, and ask him is he proud of fianna fails inner circle robbing disabled kids funds!

mike65

Wind In The Willows wrote: »

Lets get real here folks, this type of under the counter dealing and playing fast and loose with public monies is nothing new, neither in the public or private /voluntary sector. Just that it's getting an airing now at the instigation of the Fine Gael and Labour coalition (masquerading as our government) in order to divert attention from their own shambolic management of this country and because their own hands are clean..for once , it appears.
I'm not defending any of the voluntary sector CEO's or their Boards or the HSE for that matter but it suits Kenny, Reilly, Hogan & Co to have the spotlight shone elsewhere rather than on their own tawdry shenanigans - think Irish Water and the €50m nobody knows about, think overruns in Health Budget, think Water Charges, think all the broken pre election promises, think Eirgrid running roughshod over rural communities in the south east etc, think cuts to social services etc etc..... Nice diversion this CRC stuff !
And boy aren't Deputies Ross, McDonald,McGuinness and a few low profile faceless back bench hangers on loving the spotlight ! Were there to be a sniff of FG/Labour(or FF for that matter) involvement or imprimatur to any of the shady goings on in these voluntary agencies, would there be such a feeding frenzy on the mis-management of these agencies?? I wonder would Deputy Ross and Deputy McDonald be as liberal with their accusations of lying etc were they not to have the protection of Dail privilege - innocent until guilty indeed !
I suppose it will all help Deputy Ross's re-election campaign whenever the time comes( west Brit and pompous self righteousness goes down well in Dublin South it seems - slip on the Blueshirt, Deputy),as will Deputy McDonald's own dubious Shinner baggage be helpfully assuaged/forgotten from her new found moral high ground, a crowded place these days for populist wannabe's ! And as for Deputy McGuinness,in his lofty position as chair of this august committee and lately a FF convert to fiscal governance , it wasnt that long ago since he was advocating that we, willing taxpayers that we are, should pony up not alone TD junkets but lets pay for the WAGS to tag along as well !
Are we really taken in by all this diversion, while Kenny and his government trample our country and our spirit underfoot so that himself, Noonan etc can be proclaimed the wunderkind of Europe and snuggle lap dog like at the feet of Frau Merkel and Messers Rehn, Schauble, Barroso et al
Roll on 2016 or perhaps sooner when ordinary folk get to do our own interrogation of the honourable deputies and pass our own judgements ! Then again, this is Local & European Election year is'nt it ??? Lets start now !!!

Waubble wousing ahoy!

Jasus would you like to start a party or something just so we can all vote for you?!

donegal__road

Wind In The Willows wrote: »

I'm not defending any of the voluntary sector CEO's or their Boards or the HSE for that matter but it suits Kenny, Reilly, Hogan & Co to have the spotlight shone elsewhere rather than on their own tawdry shenanigans - think Irish Water and the €50m nobody knows about, think overruns in Health Budget, think Water Charges, think all the broken pre election promises, think Eirgrid running roughshod over rural communities in the south east etc, think cuts to social services etc etc..... Nice diversion this CRC stuff !

I agree with this... the CRC is plastered across the front page of the indo with story of how a mum cried when she heard the scandal unfold.... and not a word of the €50 million Irish Water debacle, Phil Hogan etc... all vanished.

Plazaman

The €473,000 lump sum payout was one thing (even though Kiely lied when he retire saying it was just over €200,000), but it was the payment of the €273,000 to Mercers Consultants to pay for his pension fund which was the scummy icing on his cake of corruption. In effect this money stated he has already done his work up to the end of 2016.

He should be made listen to the Morning Ireland interview this morning with that mother who regularly attends the CRC with her disabled son.

Kiely wouldn't know the words "shame" or "embarrassment", anyone who is quite happy to take money from sick kids, is a special type of cúnt.

Hitchens

TANAISTE Eamon Gilmore has backed away from two ministers' calls to block €7,000-per-head Irish Water staff bonuses -- because the Government has no power to do so.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/gilmore-admits-cabinet-cant-block-irish-water-bonuses-29924318.html

Amazing the way the Govt never has power to do what's right

Potatoeman

zerks wrote: »

If you were collecting for charity and getting paid x amount but decided to conceal even more money that you collected all for yourself what would you expect to happen if you got caught.Let him spin it however he wants,the extra money he took was basically theft.

I was replying to the poster talking about the Anglo tapes.
If this guy did steal the money the gardai should be looking into it.

Skylinehead

Hitchens wrote: »

TANAISTE Eamon Gilmore has backed away from two ministers' calls to block €7,000-per-head Irish Water staff bonuses -- because the Government has no power to do so.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/gilmore-admits-cabinet-cant-block-irish-water-bonuses-29924318.html

Amazing the way the Govt never has power to do what's right

Well in that case, they don't. What exactly do you want them to do?

Tony EH

SeaFields wrote: »

I have to say Shane Ross is absolutely brilliant to listen to in the Public Accounts Committee. He is ripping the CRC a new one whenever he gets a chance.

One of the best, if not the best critical commentators we have in this country.

It's a pity he has no power to change anything though.

donegal__road

Tony EH wrote: »

One of the best, if not the best critical commentators we have in this country.

It's a pity he has no power to change anything though.

where can you watch a re-run of this?

Grand Moff Tarkin

Seeing all this in the news makes me happy to have never handed over a brown cent to any form of charity.

arctictree

Here's what Putin would do:

tayto lover

donegal__road wrote: »

If it was China, they would already have been executed.

Maybe we need to employ a few Chinese judges here.

CAUN

Anybody have a link to the most recent grilling? I can only find the ones from December on youtube.

Irish Steve

More regulators, in ivory towers, and with no real power to DO anything. No thanks.

How about closing the whole shooting match down and declaring the republic a failure, and starting a new republic.

New political system, new civil service, new semi states where needed, but with no golden handshakes, or bonus schemes, or special tax and pay breaks, or under age retirement pension schemes, or any of the other multitude of looking after the boyos schemes that are every bit as offensive as taking money from charity donations to pay inflated pensions.

The whole aspect of "value" of employment has to be re evaluated from the top to bottom. Is banking REALLY worth obscene bonuses for sitting in an office and pressing the ENTER key at the right millisecond? Is politics so special that it justifies a pension before the state retiring age for the people that are rejected by the electorate?

Are people like accountants, solicitors and the like really doing the job they are there for if nothing is reported as being out of order or incorrect?

Are the regulators doing their job if companies or organisations are not being made to deal with their shortcomings, and that does not mean taking a local authority to court and fining them for a failing, all that does is reduce the quality of service the local authority provides to the people that need it. The person responsible for the failure should pay the price of their failure, which in some countries means they are executed, but as we are "civilised", how about them losing the job that they clearly didn't do correctly? When was the last time a civil servant was fired for incompetence? Ever? No, not moved sideways, or transferred to another department, or even (if the failing was so severe) transfer the entire department to another department, or rename it so that the rules change, and the old failings can't be compared to the new failings.
The Medical professions have things like fitness to practice committees. When will we have fitness to practice for politicians, and civil servants, at all levels?


Banks a problem? Maybe, but as big a problem. and basically untouchable are things like the big accountancy practices that never find anything wrong with the books that they audit, the legal profession that never finds anything wrong with things like completion certificates on new property, the architectural profession that has yet to pay out a single cent in compensation for project that were signed off by its members but were not built in accordance with the specifications,

What's the most popular phrase if you write to a regulator, or a semi state like the RSA "It's not within our remit" So many things and ways to wriggle out of taking responsibility for the actions of the people that are supposed to be being regulated, or supervised, or controlled.

We have regulators up the whazzoo, in areas that are totally inappropriate, and in a lot of cases, they are impotent, and their regulation is sterile and has no meaningful outcome. There are ways around the presence of a regulator, and in some cases, the presence of the regulator encourages the black economy, in that if it's illegal to be paid to do a certain job, then the easy way to to make sure that the payment can't be seen or traced. House alarms, CCTV, Domestic electrical work, domestic gas work, night club security, bouncers, All regulated by heavy handed rules that are so easy to avoid, and so badly managed, the majority of people just laugh at the stupidity of the way that things are being supposedly managed.

perhaps things might have been different if there had been protests and civil disobedience along the lines of what happened in Greece, but "the system" has been in place too long here, its built in to the culture to not challenge the system, it starts with the Catholic Church, and goes on from there, and that regrettably is a big part of the issue now, the whole concept of Church, Mass, confession, and "sin" means that as long as it's been confessed, there are no implications and (and this is the underlying failing of the system) no consequences. Don't think too much, just sit and say the right words at the right time, and everything will be grand. Yeah, right........

In the situations that are increasingly being exposed, there ARE consequences, for people who have been deprived of services, and the people who are responsible for taking money in questionable circumstances need to be made to face up to and deal with the long term consequences of their actions. The attitude of God towards a failing is irrelevant if that failing has resulted in long term harm to another. God can do what he likes, at the appropriate time, but before that, there are ( or should be) consequences for Life. People at the top in places like CRC are NOT gods in their operation, they are servants, and if they are not providing an appropriate and effective service then the solution is simple, remove them. Is moral outrage or offending public decency not a valid reason for terminating a contract of employment? If it is not, it needs to be.

tayto lover

Gilmour on the News at One feigning shock and dismay.
Did he forget how his wife was looked after with a 92 k plus expenses job a few years ago?
Of course he will say there was nothing shady about it.
Hypocrite.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/eamon-gilmores-wife-moves-her-92000-job-to-ruairi-quinns-office-28903543.html

Tazio

I think there is a common thread running thought all the scandals over the last few years... .I just can't put my figure on it.....


http://cdn4.independent.ie/incoming/article29794059.ece/ALTERNATES/h342/paul-kiely.jpg

Ghost Buster

Tony EH wrote: »

One of the best, if not the best critical commentators we have in this country.

It's a pity he has no power to change anything though.

He has already been labeled a 'west brit' on this thread,. A phrase which always makes me die a little inside. It seems that any articulate public figure who appears educated gets this. Personally he is one of the only politicians I have any respect for.

fortwilliam

From the CRC website.

Just look at the wording, all the while the CEO was looking at his bank account filling up with the few quid from your Gran's coffee morning or the €150 from the pub quiz down the local on a Wednesday night...

Makes me shudder how he can look at his balance or pension pot and his healthy children in private school without feeling utter self disgust.
Shame on him and all like him.

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dublinman1990

I'm a young unemployed student in this country and I when heard the news about this scandal yesterday about Paul Kiely, I was sickened to my stomach to the point of anger about his disgraceful behavior.

He should be sent to the realms of a prison cell immediately for his heinous crime. But first he should pay the money back to let the CRC reform itself. Than the CRC should go to the new charity regulator to let them appoint a new corrupt free board and let the people themselves run the charity in a real and proper way with no pay or contractual arrangements to think about or to preserve the workings of the past ilk.

If any money is there to help the disabled kids let it help them instead or else close-up shop for good.

I know it puts huge pressure on the parents and the staff not invloved in any way by this 'retirement' scam but it will give a long term help to clean itself up.

Slideshowbob

Is the 700k+ payment to Kiely on top of an annual pension or the totality of it?

diomed

Slideshowbob wrote: »

Is the 700k+ payment to Kiely on top of an annual pension or the totality of it?

I think he has €90k+ a year pension, but he won't get that for another three years. The €740k is to tide him over until then.

tayto lover

Just discovered that he's a mate of Bertie's.
Says it all.
That lad could contaminate a whole continent.

cml387

Totally unfair to blame Bertie.
Or Fianna Fail in general (who incidentally were up to their necks in the CRC gravy train).


Blame the people who have elected the b**tards.