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Wii U / Nintendo general news and discussion

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    #1022
    johnny_ultimate
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,455 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    I also hate how segmented the Virtual Console is - the 3DS is more than capable of handling most retro Nintendo consoles (and other companies too), and yet the selection available on it is miserable. It's particularly bizarre launching GBA games on the WiiU and not having them on 3DS as well. I know early adopters were lucky enough to get those GBA downloads, but they're missing many beats by not releasing the games on handheld as well. I know there was some promise they wouldn't be released again, but again that's a pretty insane decision.

    A more unified Virtual Console across Nintendo's two main platforms would be much welcome, especially with the cross buy that is happily default on Sony platforms - and they tend to be more reasonably priced as well. Obviously Gamecube games are going to struggle on 3DS, but apart from that there's no good reason to have it as restricted as it is now. Sony have gone out of their way to ensure their PS1 titles are playable on as many devices as possible (no doubt PS4 support is on the way), but Nintendo seem incredibly reluctant to do that.


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    #1023
    Myrddin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    johnny_ultimate wrote: »
    It's particularly bizarre launching GBA games on the WiiU

    I thought that was one of the most silly decisions to date. GBA games are a perfect fit for the 3DS, where as the Wii U would have been ripe to roll out Gamecube titles on the Wii U.

    I agree that no cross-play is ridiculous too, it just seems Nintendo don't want to compromise sales of either system by giving them exclusive vc titles at stupid prices. VC content should be cross play courtesy of a unified Nintendo account.


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    #1024
    Daith
    Registered Users Posts: 4,973 ✭✭✭Daith


    Indeed a unified Nintendo account, better selection of VC games and crossplay support would be great.

    I get why Nintendo wants people to pay for old games again but they could easily do a buy a Wii U/3DS and get 10 free VC games.

    They just don't seem willing to adapt at all.


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    #1025
    johnny_ultimate
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,455 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    The current pricetags would be much easier to accept if you were assured you'd be able to download it on multiple consoles as well. I can understand them wanting to have a 'premium' value attached to some of their classics, but again there's no sensible reason to have it as restrictive as it is now.

    As Sony has proven, most players are more welcoming of having a handheld and home console in close harmony with each other as opposed to completely separate entities. As has been theorised earlier in the thread and elsewhere, a unified format is possibly the direction Nintendo will be heading with their next hardware revision, but it should have already been in place. Given the early - rough but groundbreaking - experiments with connectivity during the GBA / Gamecube era in games like Four Swords or Bomberman, it's regrettable they've been significantly outpaced by their competitors.


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    #1026
    Retr0gamer
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 51,410 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    landsleaving wrote: »
    This could have been a big seller for them. I know it takes time to get these things out, and get the emulation right and all that, but with free emulation so incredibly easy to do, and working close to perfectly in most cases, sitting on the best back catalogue in games and charging silly prices for a small range of content is beyond stupid.
    Myrddin wrote: »
    I couldn't agree more. The VC has huge potential to be a solid reason to own a WII U...it costs Nintendo virtually nothing in the grand scheme of things, to make Nes, Snes, GBA, N64 etc available to buy via the VC.

    That's quite simply not true. 'Free emulation' is firstly not easy to do and also far from accurate. Nintendo care about how their games are emulated on the virtual console so develop unique emulation wrappers for each game. They put an awful lot of work into emulating each title as close as perfectly as they can get it which means you are getting a far better version than if you run the rom in a PC emulator.

    It's simply wrong to suggest that Nintendo has something like snes9x or zsnes on the wiiu and only has to release roms. They but a lot of time and resources into the emulation of the games they release. It might be a pain that there's a long wait between releases but you are getting a superior product.

    The account system though really needs an overhaul.
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    #1027
    abbir
    Registered Users Posts: 770 ✭✭✭abbir


    Retr0gamer wrote: »
    It's simply wrong to suggest that Nintendo has something like snes9x or zsnes on the wiiu and only has to release roms. They but a lot of time and resources into the emulation of the games they release. It might be a pain that there's a long wait between releases but you are getting a superior product.

    Why does it take them so long to release games that have already been made work on the Wii? They've already got an emulator working there but so many games are not on Wii U but are on Wii.


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    #1028
    Retr0gamer
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 51,410 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    abbir wrote: »
    Why does it take them so long to release games that have already been made work on the Wii? They've already got an emulator working there but so many games are not on Wii U but are on Wii.

    Because porting to another system isn't an easy process. The big part of making accurate emulation is emulating the timing between the different chips in the system. Move to a system where the architecture is the similar but everything has different clock speeds and you are starting from scratch again.

    These releases also still have to be extensively tested before release as well.
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    #1029
    CiDeRmAn
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 34,605 CMod ✭✭✭✭CiDeRmAn


    I'll tell you what is bonkers
    To play Majoras Mask on the WiiU I had to go to the Wii Eshop and buy it for that VC, and when I want to play it, or any other VC game, I have to quite the WiiU and call up the Wii menu.
    So all these consoles are already on the WiiU, it's just needlessly fiddly.

    A page from Sony's book would be wise, given the immensely well stocked the Ninty coffers are in great games. Buy the game once from the Eshop and play it on any platform it'll run on, so if you have it on 3DS you'll get it on the WiiU and vice versa.


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    #1030
    gaynorvader
    Registered Users Posts: 1,630 ✭✭✭gaynorvader


    Retr0gamer wrote: »
    Because porting to another system isn't an easy process. The big part of making accurate emulation is emulating the timing between the different chips in the system. Move to a system where the architecture is the similar but everything has different clock speeds and you are starting from scratch again.

    These releases also still have to be extensively tested before release as well.

    I'm not convinced there's all that much work getting GBA, N64, SNES or NES games working reliably on emulated architecture. Particularly as the hardware will be the same across all Wii Us. An argument might be made for Gamecube and Wii games being a bit difficult to port.


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    #1031
    murphyebass
    Registered Users Posts: 5,553 ✭✭✭murphyebass


    CiDeRmAn wrote: »
    I'll tell you what is bonkers
    To play Majoras Mask on the WiiU I had to go to the Wii Eshop and buy it for that VC, and when I want to play it, or any other VC game, I have to quite the WiiU and call up the Wii menu.
    So all these consoles are already on the WiiU, it's just needlessly fiddly.

    A page from Sony's book would be wise, given the immensely well stocked the Ninty coffers are in great games. Buy the game once from the Eshop and play it on any platform it'll run on, so if you have it on 3DS you'll get it on the WiiU and vice versa.

    Are you saying I can log in to the Wii part of my Wii U and buy from the back catalogue of games on the Wii system like Majora's mask and play it on my Wii U? If so I'll be rather happy. It would be fiddily but still fantastic to have access to that back catalogue albeit unplayable on the gamepad screen I assume.


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    #1032
    Retr0gamer
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 51,410 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    gaynorvader wrote: »
    I'm not convinced there's all that much work getting GBA, N64, SNES or NES games working reliably on emulated architecture. Particularly as the hardware will be the same across all Wii Us. An argument might be made for Gamecube and Wii games being a bit difficult to port.

    Emulation, particularly good emulation is extremely difficult to code. You might not think it is but it won't change the truth of the matter.
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    #1033
    Daith
    Registered Users Posts: 4,973 ✭✭✭Daith


    Retr0gamer wrote: »
    Emulation, particularly good emulation is extremely difficult to code. You might not think it is but it won't change the truth of the matter.

    I would have thought that Nintendo would emulate the SNES, NES, etc rather than emulate every game separate. Its why people are comparing it to the likes of zSnes and why it seems so slow at releasing games.


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    #1034
    Retr0gamer
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 51,410 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    Daith wrote: »
    I would have thought that Nintendo would emulate the SNES, NES, etc rather than emulate every game separate.

    Emulating to the level that Nintendo does like that for a system takes an incredible amount of processing power. BSNES is the only emulator that comes close to that goal and just check the system requirements for that.

    Lower accuracy emulators really just fudge things until the game runs in a state that is good enough. It's not accurate but most people won't notice. Nintendo like sega take their legacy titles very seriously so put extra effort in. The vc titles take the same approach as the low accuracy emulators but each titles emulator is tailor just to that title to get it as accurate as possible. There's a lot of trial and error in that development approach but it does mean you don't need a 3 ghz CPU to run them.
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    #1035
    Grayditch
    Registered Users Posts: 14,347 ✭✭✭✭Grayditch


    gaynorvader wrote: »
    I was indulging in a little hyperbole. To be accurate they have little or no truly exclusive games on them (i.e. games only on XB1 or PS4).

    Exclusives, or lack thereof aside, the PS4 and Xbox One have a ton of multiplatform games you can't get on the Wii U, already. All these things matter. Thief, Tomb Raider, FIFA 14, Battlefield 4, a lot of indie games. That list is going to grow.

    For me, the PS4 for instance already has more games that interest me than the WiiU. The console really is for Nintendo games, when the come around. That to me says "limited" more than even the current gen's situation does now.


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    #1036
    gaynorvader
    Registered Users Posts: 1,630 ✭✭✭gaynorvader


    Retr0gamer wrote: »
    Emulation, particularly good emulation is extremely difficult to code. You might not think it is but it won't change the truth of the matter.

    It is, but a lot of the leg work has been done already. Much of the work is refining for a specific hardware. The problem a lot of emulators have is they have to sit on top of dlls to interface with the os, whereas Nintendo with the Wii U have full control over that side of things.

    I agree it is difficult to code, but Nintendo also, presumably, have access to the source code behind the original firmware. For the lower powered machines, it shouldn't be all that difficult not in comparison to designing a console OS.


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    #1037
    gaynorvader
    Registered Users Posts: 1,630 ✭✭✭gaynorvader


    Grayditch wrote: »
    Exclusives, or lack thereof aside, the PS4 and Xbox One have a ton of multiplatform games you can't get on the Wii U, already. All these things matter. Thief, Tomb Raider, FIFA 14, Battlefield 4, a lot of indie games. That list is going to grow.

    For me, the PS4 for instance already has more games that interest me than the WiiU. The console really is for Nintendo games, when the come around. That to me says "limited" more than even the current gen's situation does now.

    If you have a good PC or a Xbox 360/PS3 or even buy a second hand 360 or PS3, is there that much out for them? Not at the moment as far as I know. It is going to grow, but that's not a compelling argument as to why I should buy one of them now.


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    #1038
    Myrddin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    Retr0gamer wrote: »
    That's quite simply not true. 'Free emulation' is firstly not easy to do and also far from accurate. Nintendo care about how their games are emulated on the virtual console so develop unique emulation wrappers for each game. They put an awful lot of work into emulating each title as close as perfectly as they can get it which means you are getting a far better version than if you run the rom in a PC emulator.

    It's simply wrong to suggest that Nintendo has something like snes9x or zsnes on the wiiu and only has to release roms. They but a lot of time and resources into the emulation of the games they release. It might be a pain that there's a long wait between releases but you are getting a superior product.

    The account system though really needs an overhaul.

    I'd agree with that, but the disparity between the Wii & Wii U vc libraries begs to differ. They have a lot of the work done already.
    Retr0gamer wrote: »
    Because porting to another system isn't an easy process. The big part of making accurate emulation is emulating the timing between the different chips in the system. Move to a system where the architecture is the similar but everything has different clock speeds and you are starting from scratch again.

    These releases also still have to be extensively tested before release as well.

    The Wii U & Wii are very, very similar (great comparison here). Hell, all they'd have to do is run the vc titles in Wii mode...it's not as if the additional power of the Wii U is needed for vc (yet anyway). Nintendo designed these systems (Nes, Snes, GBA etc etc), there's no guesswork involved which 3rd party emulation has to deal with, no messy hacks...they have the 'source code' of these consoles for want of a better term. Porting games to current hardware, ones already ported to the Wii, shouldn't be happening at the pace its happening at. It's dismal stuff. I still believe they're priced too dear, & instead Nintendo should be using the VC as an incentive to buy a Wii U...not a way to make money from decades old games. Getting the hardware out there, should be the goal.

    I also said I believe they cost Nintendo virtually nothing in the grand scheme of things, obviously the work costs money, but it's more than likely chump change to Nintendo. With the resources & cash reserves they have, it's frankly, not good enough to say it's down to delays in getting emulation correct. I just don't buy that.


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    #1039
    Grayditch
    Registered Users Posts: 14,347 ✭✭✭✭Grayditch


    gaynorvader wrote: »
    If you have a good PC or a Xbox 360/PS3 or even buy a second hand 360 or PS3, is there that much out for them? Not at the moment as far as I know.

    Depends on what an individual is into, really and how fast they get through games. Also if you decide to begin some of the cross-gen (?) games on the next gen console there's even more games to play. For instance, I held off playing AC4 until I had it on PS4 for the better experience.

    If you picked up a next gen console, there are good exclusives games to play if you have a semi-varied taste, and then continue to get games like Watchdogs, for example on next gen. There are enough games out in my opinion, for my tastes to switch to next gen now.

    It's not as bad as early adopting a Nintendo Console, where you get home with an great game, setting a high standard, but leaving you waiting quite a while for the next one. Early adopting the 3DS was a mistake on my part, as was shifting it on before it came to life, but that's my experience.


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    #1040
    sweetie
    Registered Users Posts: 9,795 ✭✭✭sweetie


    Myrddin wrote: »
    The Wii U & Wii are very, very similar (great comparison here).

    wow, they really are close :D:confused:


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    #1041
    Myrddin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    sweetie wrote: »
    wow, they really are close :D:confused:

    Jeez, dafuq happened there :o Fixed now, sorry F1 fans :P


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    #1042
    richymcdermott
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,447 ✭✭✭richymcdermott


    http://www.siliconera.com/2014/04/01/report-nintendo-president-satoru-iwata-faces-crucial-challenge/


    I am putting this here , please understand.....


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    #1043
    readyletsgo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,276 ✭✭✭readyletsgo


    richymcdermott wrote: »
    http://www.siliconera.com/2014/04/01/report-nintendo-president-satoru-iwata-faces-crucial-challenge/


    I am putting this here , please understand.....

    Eh, its just an article, Iwata is going no where, a share holder in Hong Kong is not going to make Iwata leave Nintendo :rolleyes:.

    Everyone wants to know what the QoL thing is in June/E3. Bet its something to do with VR connected with the WiiU in a round about way.


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    #1044
    Star Lord
    Registered Users Posts: 30,123 ✭✭✭✭Star Lord


    richymcdermott wrote: »
    http://www.siliconera.com/2014/04/01/report-nintendo-president-satoru-iwata-faces-crucial-challenge/

    I am putting this here , please understand.....

    Seems to be just a poorly written compilation of facts that have been known for a couple of months now?


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    #1045
    richymcdermott
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,447 ✭✭✭richymcdermott


    readyletsgo wrote: »
    Eh, its just an article, Iwata is going no where, a share holder in Hong Kong is not going to make Iwata leave Nintendo :rolleyes:.

    Everyone wants to know what the QoL thing is in June/E3. Bet its something to do with VR connected with the WiiU in a round about way.

    I think Qol means nintendo will be going into clothes designs and toys and such, would make sense in a way but it also could mean like nintendo watches that track your heart rate.

    I dont know if vr would be well suited for nintendo games though I have no objections feeling like I am in hyrule :L


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    #1046
    Radiosonde
    Closed Accounts Posts: 613 ✭✭✭Radiosonde


    richymcdermott wrote: »
    I think Qol means nintendo will be going into clothes designs and toys and such, would make sense in a way but it also could mean like nintendo watches that track your heart rate.

    Couldn't be watches or clothes, since they emphasised that they'll be "non-wearable"


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    #1047
    Star Lord
    Registered Users Posts: 30,123 ✭✭✭✭Star Lord


    Radiosonde wrote: »
    Couldn't be watches or clothes, since they emphasised that they'll be "non-wearable"

    Yeah, exactly. God Iwata only knows what they mean by non-wearables though.


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    #1048
    Banjo
    Registered Users Posts: 10,485 ✭✭✭✭Banjo


    You can't wear a Wii U

    Just sayin'....


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    #1049
    richymcdermott
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,447 ✭✭✭richymcdermott


    Non wearable ? First I heard of this ? :confused:


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    #1050
    druss
    Registered Users Posts: 1,312 ✭✭✭druss


    Banjo wrote: »
    You can't wear a Wii U

    Just sayin'....

    I don't know. I reckon I could Flavour Flav it.


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    #1051
    Pushtrak
    Registered Users Posts: 4,640 ✭✭✭Pushtrak


    The Frostbite Engine twitter page is ran by tryhards, seemingly.

    https://twitter.com/FrostbiteEngine

    Edit: They deleted the tweets. Kotaku has an article on it.

    http://kotaku.com/frostbites-april-fools-joke-is-kinda-mean-1556136401


    Frostbite now runs on the #WiiU since it is the most powerful Gen4 platform, our renderer is now optimized for Mario and Zelda.

    Frostbite will power #HalfLife3, coming out summer 2014! #WiiU exclusive.

    Good news, we have finally fixed and optimized our 'netcode'. Uses quantum entanglement for Zero Latency connections. Exclusively on #WiiU.


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