Wii U / Nintendo general news and discussion

CiDeRmAn

druss wrote: »

I don't know. I reckon I could Flavour Flav it.

Flavor Flav is the one
Public Enemy No. 1

RoyalCelt

Myrddin wrote: »

Like it or not though, that is the image a lot of people have of Nintendo these days. For those people, the worst that can happen is they miss out on some great games....but life goes on. It's Nintendo's problem to fix, as people will happily spend money on other systems & games.

well said that's what i was getting at. i can't see them changing it though. their most successful console ever had that image (Wii) and they will have more chance at hitting the jackpot again by targeting kids and old people.

But with the changing market it's going to have to be mobile unless they're willing to invest some of their billions like microsoft do and not expect to make it all back.

CiDeRmAn

I don't think Nintendo have been afraid to invest.
The Wii was the first time they made a console less powerful then the competition.
And the WiiU may well be the last time.
Perhaps the WiiU would have been better launched as the Wii HD without the Gamepad back in '11 or so, as an incremental update.
Then they would have been free to produce a proper update by now.

CiDeRmAn

I have no complaints about the quality of the consoles game content so far and would argue there's likely nothing so far on the two consoles as good as its best up to now.
That said it would have been gratifying to have seen a Nintendo console that could compete nose to nose with the rest.
We might have seen a situation where the WiiU would have competed in the basis of its exclusives and feature list alone, with third parties being fully engaged.
I think the lack of EA engagement with the WiiU is going to really hurt it.

Kaizersoze81

It's finished as a console with the exception of 1st party games.

CiDeRmAn

Kaizersoze81 wrote: »

It's finished as a console with the exception of 1st party games.

Except for Ubisoft and Activision and Sega and Namco/Bandai.... Oh wait, that's quite a few right there....

murphyebass

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

I have no complaints about the quality of the consoles game content so far and would argue there's likely nothing so far on the two consoles as good as its best up to now.
That said it would have been gratifying to have seen a Nintendo console that could compete nose to nose with the rest.
We might have seen a situation where the WiiU would have competed in the basis of its exclusives and feature list alone, with third parties being fully engaged.
I think the lack of EA engagement with the WiiU is going to really hurt it.

The power is definately off putting for someone who is using it as first console or only console. Its a shame that nintendo have written themselves out of this space. I agree with you in hoping that the next console will be the same power as the other two but I wouldnt count on it.

That said I think your right there cant be complaints about the games so far, in particular the 1st party stuff has been superb to say the least.

I was looking at the PS4 earlier as mate got one and was raving about it. I couldnt see one game that would tempt me to parting with my cash. Not one! Dont get me wrong its in its infancy and games will come but right now theres just absolutely nothing there of any interest imo. I hope it has something by xmas! I like buying new devices at xmas. This year was Wii U. Year before was a Neo Geo Pocket Color. If theres still nothing on it I might get a Nintendo 3DS XL instead. Damn first world problems. :pac:

Kaizersoze81 wrote: »

It's finished as a console with the exception of 1st party games.

So eh its not a finished console then?

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

Except for Ubisoft and Activision and Sega and Namco/Bandai.... Oh wait, that's quite a few right there....

Yeah its ok list but its not exactly great now is it. That said looking at the amount of indies coming in the coming year I'm genuinely not bothered at all by the lack of 3rd party stuff.
Theres plenty to play on the Wii U. People tend to dismiss it without even looking at whats available via eshop etc, which in it self could be a lot better but does offer a lot that the other two dont and cant for that matter.

I'm dying to see what Nintendo come up with at E3. In a way its the last roll of the dice in attracting new business. That, Mario Kart and Smash bros really are the big hopes at this stage for the system in terms of sales and numbers. That said as I've said before even if it keeps up steam at its current level it'll be with us for another couple of years at least as its sales are close to being on par with the GameCube which didnt exactly break them.

Bring back Sega in to the fold I say just to mix it up a bit !!

tok9

Seriously.. this thread needs to be closed.

Varik

tok9 wrote: »

Seriously.. this thread needs to be closed.

A name change would be good at least.

petes

tok9 wrote: »

Seriously.. this thread needs to be closed.

Anyone forcing you to read it or indeed post in it?

Radiosonde

It's interesting to look at the different priorities in terms of launch window titles between WiiU and PS4/One. PS4 has Killzone and Infamous; Xbone has Dead Rising and Titanfall. Those titles are what draw consumers of so-called mature games (the main demographic that buys console games), and thus consolidate third-party support. Sony gives you Uncharted, third parties are confident that bringing Tomb Raider and Bioshock: Infinite to your console are worthwhile (those are maybe bad examples, but they're just shorthand for dozens of other titles). Ditto Halo, the audience for COD etc is there.

Wii U had NSMB U, Nintendoland, the promise of Pikmin 3, and tokenistic mature effort ZombiiU (which flopped badly). What does that say to third parties? Well, Rayman Legends sold best on WiiU: there's certainly fans of 2D platformers buying WiiU thanks to Mario. But what else? Why bring Deus Ex (flop), COD (flop), or Arkham Knight, or Watch_Dogs (will be canned, I'm sure of it)?

Power is one thing, but Nintendo needed its own Western studios making games that appeal to the core Western demographic. Sadly, they didn't need Donkey Kong. In the age of Angry Birds and Minecraft, I'm not sure a kid-friendly console is a viable proposition anymore.

kunst nugget

murphyebass wrote: »

That said as I've said before even if it keeps up steam at its current level it'll be with us for another couple of years at least as its sales are close to being on par with the GameCube which didnt exactly break them.

Considering most people would call the GameCube an also ran, that's hardly a ringing endorsement for the WiiU.

Retr0gamer

kunst nugget wrote: »

Considering most people would call the GameCube an also ran, that's hardly a ringing endorsement for the WiiU.

The Gamecube though was a fantastic machine, one of the best ever, and the WiiU seems to be heading that way as well if they keep the quality of releases up. Plenty of also rans turned out to be great machines to own, look at the Neo Geo Pocket.

murphyebass

Radiosonde wrote: »

It's interesting to look at the different priorities in terms of launch window titles between WiiU and PS4/One. PS4 has Killzone and Infamous; Xbone has Dead Rising and Titanfall. Those titles are what draw consumers of so-called mature games (the main demographic that buys console games), and thus consolidate third-party support. Sony gives you Uncharted, third parties are confident that bringing Tomb Raider and Bioshock: Infinite to your console are worthwhile (those are maybe bad examples, but they're just shorthand for dozens of other titles). Ditto Halo, the audience for COD etc is there.

Wii U had NSMB U, Nintendoland, the promise of Pikmin 3, and tokenistic mature effort ZombiiU (which flopped badly). What does that say to third parties? Well, Rayman Legends sold best on WiiU: there's certainly fans of 2D platformers buying WiiU thanks to Mario. But what else? Why bring Deus Ex (flop), COD (flop), or Arkham Knight, or Watch_Dogs (will be canned, I'm sure of it)?

Power is one thing, but Nintendo needed its own Western studios making games that appeal to the core Western demographic. Sadly, they didn't need Donkey Kong. In the age of Angry Birds and Minecraft, I'm not sure a kid-friendly console is a viable proposition anymore.

If I was 15 again I'd want a PS4 1st and Wii U a distant distant 2nd.

Things that matter when your younger:

Graphics and Power. Come on power is important.. remember "Now youre playing with power!".. Good marketing in fairness.
The popular games. Nowadays that would be COD and Fifa I suppose.
Cool factor. In fairness PS4 has that in spades, Wii U eh does not.
Mature titles as you mentioned. The one that sticks out in my mind was mortal kombat back in the day everyone wanted to see blood! Nowadays its GTA. Wii U gets Lego City Undercover.. (personally I enjoy it but 15 year old me would have said get lost I'm play yet another game of PES.)

The likes of Deus Ex and Mass Effect 3 were never gonna sell well as most people who own a Wii U own these on either on PS3 or Xbox 360. Personally I'm enjoying having them as I can play them on the gamepad but I'd say I'm in the minority.

I think there is a place for the Wii U or something "kiddy friendly" for want of a better term but it has got to be marketed correctly.
As a parent now myself I dont think children should be sitting down to play the PS4. The Wii U is the ideal console to get children on to the console ladder so to speak.
The bottom line is the Wii U was marketed incredibly poorly. And continues to be marketed poorly. The name alone sure pretty much ruined the console. The attempts to explain it were idiotic. And whatever idiot decided to call it the Wii U in the first place should be sacked.

Retr0gamer

Radiosonde wrote: »

Power is one thing, but Nintendo needed its own Western studios making games that appeal to the core Western demographic. Sadly, they didn't need Donkey Kong. In the age of Angry Birds and Minecraft, I'm not sure a kid-friendly console is a viable proposition anymore.

The last generation changed the playing field with third party games taking over from first party software in terms of importance. Having first party western style games on the WiiU would be a fruitless disaster for Nintendo. They needed to get third party support on the WiiU and when they underpowered the console that boat sailed, there's no getting it back. Ubisoft will continue to support the system, they'll support anything but I doubt we'll see anythign but the odd big hitter on the system.

As for there being no market for kids games since iOS, that couldn't be further from the truth. Both are completely different markets that can co-exist. It doesn't stand up to scrutiny when those games are selling like crazy on 3DS and stuff like DKCR and NSMB Wii were so successful. Nobody is buying them because no one owns a WiiU. The whole failure of the WiiU isn't that it's underpowered, it's that Nintendo failed to put into the public conscience what it is and that it exists.

If Donkey Kong was on a more popular system, make no mistake it would fly off the shelves.

Mario Kart 8 should push a few units hopefully and maybe raise awareness of the system. Apparently it's up superb and on par with the quality of DS and Mario Kart 7.

Retr0gamer

If Nintendo want to stay relevant when the next console generation comes around they need to create a machine that matches the competitors, use the same architecture so that ports are low cost to third parties meaning there's no reason they won't port to the system.

They also need a radical case design from what the Wii looks like. The WiiU looking like a Wii and with a similar name just confuses people. Look at the Super Nintendo, Nintendo 64 or PS2-3. The name signifies more power while the console looks completely differently. To average joe that says 'brand new console'.

As it stands nintendo just need to ride the Wii out. Jumping the gun on the generation will leave them underpowered for the next one meaning they have to bring out a new console and alienate their userbase or try and ride it out with an underpowered machine. Both say disaster to me. They need to try and keep unit sales of the machine as high as possible and remind people why they are considered the best developers in the world by bringing out qaulity must have games. They've a lot of work ahead of them. It might not get them to the top spot but with third party support they can begin clawing back some lost ground.

I really don't think another gimmicky console is going to push it really. However I can see the possibility of the industry completely changing in the next 7 years. Digital was vilified at the start of this generation, now it's acceptable. I can see streaming services like Playstation Now changing the playing field slowly this generation. Maybe there's something we haven't even seen yet.

kunst nugget

Retr0gamer wrote: »

The Gamecube though was a fantastic machine, one of the best ever, and the WiiU seems to be heading that way as well if they keep the quality of releases up. Plenty of also rans turned out to be great machines to own, look at the Neo Geo Pocket.

Great machines they might be but that doesn't change the fact that they died off due to consumer indifference.

Retr0gamer

kunst nugget wrote: »

Great machines they might be but that doesn't change the fact that they died off due to consumer indifference.

Nope.

Neo Geo Pocket died off because SNK went bankrupt. They were well on their way to bankrupcy before the NGP was even released and it certainly wasn't the main cause of their troubles. It sold decent enough numbers in Europe.

The Gamecube didn't die off it was supported and had games released on it a good year after the Wii was released.

Consumer indifference was the cause of low sales but they were continually supported for as long as possible.

tok9

petes wrote: »

Anyone forcing you to read it or indeed post in it?

No but that doesn't mean I can't give an opinion.

It's been stated several times that it's going around in circles.

Radiosonde

Retr0gamer wrote: »

The last generation changed the playing field with third party games taking over from first party software in terms of importance.

Regardless of first party or third party, Sony and MS made sure to launch with exclusives like Killzone and Dead Rising, the kind of games that resemble the major multiplatform games we get these days. Nintendo launched with a 2D platformer. What multiplatform game fared better on Wii U than other machines? A 2D platformer.

Retr0gamer wrote: »

As for there being no market for kids games since iOS, that couldn't be further from the truth. Both are completely different markets that can co-exist. It doesn't stand up to scrutiny when those games are selling like crazy on 3DS and stuff like DKCR and NSMB Wii were so successful. Nobody is buying them because no one owns a WiiU. The whole failure of the WiiU isn't that it's underpowered, it's that Nintendo failed to put into the public conscience what it is and that it exists.

I didn't say no market for kids games, I said for a kid-friendly console; as in, a console orientated around the wants and needs of kids. Nintendo's entire image is geared towards making family-friendly, toyish devices. This hasn't been a disaster for 3DS (though its runaway success in Japan is not reflected in the West, where Nintendo themselves have considered it a bit disappointing.)

But NSMB is already five years ago, and a new iteration and a stunning 3D Mario haven't shifted U's in any great numbers, and up against Sony's "sleek, powerful" "consumer electronics" image, Nintendo has floundered with Wii U. Why should parents invest in Wii U, when the kids are happy playing Minecraft on your tablet, or games you judge suitable on your PS4? Who needs a dedicated kids' console these days?

I am somewhat hopeful for MarioKart though, as it screams "new gen" in a way nothing else on Wii U has so far.

Radiosonde

On QOL, I remain open-minded until they reveal it, but I fear it's just going to be a distraction from the real challenges Nintendo faces - another attempt to recapture the casual dollar that propelled the Wii to top of the pile, another way for Satoru Iwata to try keep investors onside for another few years, when they should probably just vote him off the board at the next opportunity.

Retr0gamer

I still don't think sales of any of the machines were really affected by what launch titles were on the machine. PS4 mostly sold on the brand name mostly and a campaign that made people aware the system existed, the WiiU sold poorly because most people don't know it exists.

There was a hell of a lot of people returning NSMB U because they thought it would work on the Wii. There is demand for those games and a console like the WiiU. Nintendo has just failed spectacularly to tap it.

kunst nugget

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Consumer indifference was the cause of low sales but they were continually supported for as long as possible.

But low sales meant it stop it being economically viable to develop for the Gamecube and so the it was quietly put out to the pasture having sold less than half of what it was originally estimated to sell.

I'll admit I'm not that knowledgeable about the NeoGeo but there's nothing wrong in what I said about consumer indifference killing off the Gamecube.

johnny_ultimate

To be fair, even mediocre 2D platformers tend to be infinitely preferable to Killzone Shadowfall.

We need to stop equating graphical firepower with quality. Telling that most of the best PS4 games to date take place on a 2D or 2.5D plane, and honestly I have no problem whatsoever with that. Whether the mass market agrees is a more contentious question...

That said, though, no doubt the WiiU is going to suffer massively from lack of parity with One and PS4. People keep complaining about the Watch dog WiiU delay, but it's not going to be anything better than the 4th or 5th 'best' version of the game in any case. Could even be the worst, depending on how the 360 and PS3 versions pan out - I'd doubt the Wii U version will be significantly superior to them even in best case scenario. That sort of thing is only going to become more pronounced as fewer titles get released across all currently active platforms. Obviously there's exclusives and that's what matters above all, but yeah for multi platform releases WiiU is dead in the water already, barring more technically undemanding titles or perhaps a few gimmicky game pad features.

Radiosonde

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

We need to stop equating graphical firepower with quality. Telling that most of the best PS4 games to date take place on a 2D or 2.5D plane, and honestly I have no problem whatsoever with that. Whether the mass market agrees is a more contentious question...

But if the best PS4 games in five years all take place on a 2D plane, the console will have been a waste of time; that likely could have been achieved on lesser hardware, and thus there was no point in issuing a new console.

It's quality that rests on the technical firepower which we should demand from the PS4, the same sort that saw the PS3 pushed to its limits to produce a world as rich and engaging as that of The Last of Us. Of course, that's not to denigrate in any way less technically-demanding worlds that are just as or more rich and engaging, but we don't need a PS4 to play Papers, Please.

johnny_ultimate

Well Resogun is a 2D game that absolutely could not have been done to the same quality on other hardware. The PS3 would likely implode under the stress of those vibrant particle showers (even if the developers are clearly just showing off at times ). 2D ≠ technically inferior - I'm sure this generation will produce some 2D worlds far grander than anything seen so far, and that's no slight on the hardware whatsoever. Many of the best looking games of last gen were 2D (Vanillaware titles, for example) and they utilised the updated tech wonderfully in ways previous gens couldn't. After all, for quite some time Geometry Wars was easily the most impressive software on the young Xbox 360.

And obviously all the best games of this console generation won't be 2D - I'd say that's the safest assumption in the world. Doesn't mean that if we get a plethora of great 2D games they're inferior to their 3D counterparts. A great game is a great game, irregardless of whether it's a rich, realistic and immersive 3D world or a joyous 2D Mario game. I don't consider the latter a 'waste' of hardware if it's done well enough, and Nintendo at their peak remain masters of their field in that regard.

Pac1Man

So we all agree that marketing has been the WiiU's downfall. Taking it back a bit, why did the GameCube sell less than anticipated? I wouldn't have considered myself a gamer back then so my knowledge is hazy at best. I'm curious to know what Nintendo could have learned from that generation and brought with them to their subsequent consoles.

murphyebass

Pac1Man wrote: »

So we all agree that marketing has been the WiiU's downfall. Taking it back a bit, why did the GameCube sell less than anticipated? I wouldn't have considered myself a gamer back then so my knowledge is hazy at best. I'm curious to know what Nintendo could have learned from that generation and brought with them to their subsequent consoles.

Playstation 2.

Radiosonde

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Well Resogun is a 2D game that absolutely could not have been done to the same quality on other hardware. The PS3 would likely implode under the stress of those vibrant particle showers

Well, I've not seen Resogun, but your point was about graphics. If it achieves what it does in part through fancy graphics, then I don't think there's anything "telling" about it being a 2D game.

A great game is a great game, irregardless of whether it's a rich, realistic and immersive 3D world or a joyous 2D Mario game. I don't consider the latter a 'waste' of hardware if it's done well enough, and Nintendo at their peak remain masters of their field in that regard.

It's a waste of the hardware if the that's all or most of what the console boasts, which may end up being the case on the Wii U, if Nintendo decides to rely on cheaper, faster to produce games. In other words, if you could do what you're doing with the old hardware, no need for new hardware. And Nintendo haven't made a "joyous" 2D mario plaformer since the SNES's heyday.

Banjo

No sequel to jet force Gemini

And they still haven't learned!

The loss of Rare was huge, as no one knew their output was going to turn to **** at the time. While MS bought up promising titles / houses to secure themselves a market foothold, Ninty resisted the Disc, with their proprietary compromise limiting their data capacity. They also resisted the idea of the console as entertainment centre and, in general, the internet.

But a JFG sequel would have fixed all that