Wii U / Nintendo general news and discussion

RoyalCelt

C14N wrote: »

Source? I can't find anything on what the Gamecube sold after around 18-20 months in all territories. Your assertions that the next Nintendo console will do even worse is also completely baseless, you'd might as well make such a prediction based on rock paper scissors.

I seen the graphs with reliable sources on various forums which have hundreds of pages in these threads. Sites such as neogaf and vgchartz (note the sources were not from either of these).

I honestly can't be arsed proving this by trawling through them again. So if it means much to you would you mind getting a source to prove me wrong (or right)?

And I base my prediction on a lot of things. The fact is the gaming market is changing and unless they can come up with a new fad for the Wii U successor there won't be room for 3 console manufacturers. This is not pre Ipad days.

Microsoft if they don't get their finger out could end up not making another xbox and the PS5 if it comes (likely 8 years from now) could be the last ever dedicated console released.

The PSV is dead outside of Japan and the 3DS is tanking big time. The market is changing big time and if you analyze it you'll see there is a good chance the Wii U successor will continue the over all downward trend since their first home console.

The Wii was huge and it led to the Wii U. I don't see how after it failing (in sales) so much it can pick the pieces up for it's next one. If they ever release another in 2016/17 the PS4/XB1 era will be in full swing and nobody will be in the mood for a new Wii.

I would have said VR could be their next fad, but MS, Facebook and Sony are closing down that market fast.

Corholio

RoyalCelt wrote: »

I seen the graphs with reliable sources on various forums which have hundreds of pages in these threads. Sites such as neogaf and vgchartz (note the sources were not from either of these).

I honestly can't be arsed proving this by trawling through them again. So if it means much to you would you mind getting a source to prove me wrong (or right)?

And I base my prediction on a lot of things. The fact is the gaming market is changing and unless they can come up with a new fad for the Wii U successor there won't be room for 3 console manufacturers. This is not pre Ipad days.

Microsoft if they don't get their finger out could end up not making another xbox and the PS5 if it comes (likely 8 years from now) could be the last ever dedicated console released.

The PSV is dead outside of Japan and the 3DS is tanking big time. The market is changing big time and if you analyze it you'll see there is a good chance the Wii U successor will continue the over all downward trend since their first home console.

The Wii was huge and it led to the Wii U. I don't see how after it failing (in sales) so much it can pick the pieces up for it's next one. If they ever release another in 2016/17 the PS4/XB1 era will be in full swing and nobody will be in the mood for a new Wii.

I would have said VR could be their next fad, but MS, Facebook and Sony are closing down that market fast.

Because Nintendo are well known for fads?

The funny thing is if Nintendo were first in with VR, people would say the tech will get better as it goes on so the competitors have the advantage there, if they came late to the VR scene, same people would probably say they are behind the game.

RoyalCelt

Corholio wrote: »

Because Nintendo are well known for fads?

The funny thing is if Nintendo were first in with VR, people would say the tech will get better as it goes on so the competitors have the advantage there, if they came late to the VR scene, same people would probably say they are behind the game.

I've no opinion on that scenario you created but their motion sensor controller for the Wii was genius and well timed. They didn't rush to market like the xbox to get in before the ps3. The thing sold itself to every age group male and female. Can't they recreate that buzz? Because with their hardcore games that most on here love they have no hope. That market has come and gone.



The harsh reality I'm afraid. I'm calling it now, Nintendo will be the first to leave the industry between the big three and become a software company like sega did. They will likely release on whatever console(s) are dominant when it happens and focus big time on mobile (android, ios etc).

Nintendo are sitting on a lot of money and if they go for another round and lose things could get ugly. April NPD in the USA showed the PS4 on it's own sold more than the Wii, Wii U and 3DS combined.

And the Vita apparently sold under 5k that month so you can take it mobile and tablets have killed handhelds.

Deano7788

The 3DS is tanking? That's news to me I have to say.

CiDeRmAn

RoyalCelt wrote: »

The harsh reality I'm afraid. I'm calling it now, Nintendo will be the first to leave the industry between the big three and become a software company like sega did. They will likely release on whatever console(s) are dominant when it happens and focus big time on mobile (android, ios etc).

Complete nonsense, and an opinion only.
Of all companies, Nintendo has shown that it is dedicated to it's mission of providing innovative gaming experiences.
The WiiU was poorly marketed, but it is not a poor machine or a poor place to host videogames.
They are extremely unlikely to ever produce as a third party instead of making and selling their own hardware, and they are sitting on a pile of funds that can see them through to their next home console release.
To liken Nintendos output and reckon it will find a better home on mobile platforms is also showing a lack of understanding or appreciation for their games library, but you're engaging in a mere guessing game, so I suppose anything can be typed in, screen never refused characters.

Nintendo are sitting on a lot of money and if they go for another round and lose things could get ugly. April NPD in the USA showed the PS4 on it's own sold more than the Wii, Wii U and 3DS combined.

And the Vita apparently sold under 5k that month so you can take it mobile and tablets have killed handhelds.

Nintendo are sitting on a lot of money.
Sales figures for the PS4 are fine and dandy, and it's to be expected to be strong, but what on earth have 3DS sales got to do with it in April?
Nintendo had sold 12.24 million 3DS consoles last year and this year should be just as good, plus they have none of the write down on price on the device that Sony have with the PS4.

And the Vita has been weak, but it's nonsense to suggest that it's performance is reflective of handheld sales at all, give how strong the 3DS is.
You might want to consider the broader picture in terms of sales as well, given the Vita sold 25,000 machines in Japan from April 7th to 14th link, the 3DS lineup still sold 32,000 by comparison.

So, continue on with your doom saying, and have fun with it.
Nintendo are going no where.
And this is what Nintendo are doing on other platforms,
link
Honestly, a few links to back up statements goes a long way to separate idle speculation from fact.

Nollog

RoyalCelt wrote: »

Nintendo will be the first to leave the industry between the big three and become a software company like sega did. They will likely release on whatever console(s) are dominant when it happens and focus big time on mobile (android, ios etc).

Nintendo are sitting on a lot of money and if they go for another round and lose things could get ugly. April NPD in the USA showed the PS4 on it's own sold more than the Wii, Wii U and 3DS combined.

And the Vita apparently sold under 5k that month so you can take it mobile and tablets have killed handhelds.

I disagree with this.

NTMK

When did the vita, a woefully managed handheld become the barometer for handheld gaming?

also when did it become more likely that a company that is debt free and rerlatively healthy revenue wise become more likely to fail than a company that is billions in debt (that is rated as junk) and all of their electronics bar one are failing?

Daith

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

Complete nonsense, and an opinion only.
Of all companies, Nintendo has shown that it is dedicated to it's mission of providing innovative gaming experiences.

Now that is rubbish and pure Nintendo fanboi crap. Steam, Sony and Microsoft have all delivered fantastic and innovative gaming experiences not to mention other other companies.

XBox Live is a fantastic and despite been out for a long time is something Nintendo's online service can't compete with.

Steam have not only created tremendous games have also created a brilliant platform for other companies to release these games on.

Sony's PS4 is a purer games machine than the Wii U and it's predecessors are homes to innovative games that aren't available on Nintendo machines. It's PS Plus service is something Nintendo could learn from too.

Nintendo can be innovative but they aren't the only ones and the Occulus Rift makes the Wii U and it's IPad fearing tablet look stone age in comparison.

tok9

Bloody hell I was mighty tempted to get the Wii there but it's already sold out.

£112 on John Lewis for the Basic with NSMB and an 8GB card.

I honestly shouldn't be buying another console as I'll probably won't be gaming much at all next year... but that price was ridiculous!

gaynorvader

/\/ollog wrote: »

I disagree with this.

Nice graph, very misleading though as Sony have had their profits eaten into by their TV and PC departments for years.

EDIT: Whoops! Missed the game part of that there!

abbir

gaynorvader wrote: »

Nice graph, very misleading though as Sony have had their profits eaten into by their TV and PC departments for years.

That graph is only showing Sony's game division.

Nollog

gaynorvader wrote: »

Nice graph, very misleading though as Sony have had their profits eaten into by their TV and PC departments for years.

"Sony GAME"
abbir beat me

Digital Society

People have short memories. Nintendo are filthy rich and have enough money to not make a profit for the next 100 years.

Theyll come out with a Console in about 3 or 4 years that is a s powerful as the PS5 or the XBox Two and everyone will forget.

Sony are the ones losing Billions and selling off whole divisions of their company. Not Nintendo.

gaynorvader

abbir wrote: »

That graph is only showing Sony's game division.

/\/ollog wrote: »

"Sony GAME"
abbir beat me

Lol! need to get my eyes checked!

Star Lord

Daith wrote: »

Now that is rubbish and pure Nintendo fanboi crap. Steam, Sony and Microsoft have all delivered fantastic and innovative gaming experiences not to mention other other companies.

XBox Live is a fantastic and despite been out for a long time is something Nintendo's online service can't compete with.

Steam have not only created tremendous games have also created a brilliant platform for other companies to release these games on.

Sony's PS4 is a purer games machine than the Wii U and it's predecessors are homes to innovative games that aren't available on Nintendo machines. It's PS Plus service is something Nintendo could learn from too.

Nintendo can be innovative but they aren't the only ones and the Occulus Rift makes the Wii U and it's IPad fearing tablet look stone age in comparison.

Nobody is arguing that Microsoft and Sony's platforms haven't featured innovative games. To argue that the PS4 is a purer games machine though is simply ridiculous, particularly when you're calling others 'fanboi' for countering your opinion. To be a purer games machine, it'd have to lose the bluray movie functionality. The Wii U only plays games. The PS4 plays games and movies. Not sure how that makes it a 'purer' games machine?

The innovation on the Microsoft platforms mainly comes down to the imagination and ingenuity of the 3rd party developers. I can't recall the last game by Microsoft that could really be called imaginative. Sony have some great imaginative 2nd party developers, especially Media Molecule, who bring out some really beautiful, fun games.

Nintendo on the other hand do a lot of games development themselves, and while at first glance, the games often have familiar visuals, IE Mario or Link or whoever, but if you take the most recent Mario 3D World on the Wii U for example, there is so much imagination pushed into each and every level within the game that it really outshines anything else that I've played in a long, long time.

richymcdermott

DamoElDiablo wrote: »

Nobody is arguing that Microsoft and Sony's platforms haven't featured innovative games. To argue that the PS4 is a purer games machine though is simply ridiculous, particularly when you're calling others 'fanboi' for countering your opinion. To be a purer games machine, it'd have to lose the bluray movie functionality. The Wii U only plays games. The PS4 plays games and movies. Not sure how that makes it a 'purer' games machine?

The innovation on the Microsoft platforms mainly comes down to the imagination and ingenuity of the 3rd party developers. I can't recall the last game by Microsoft that could really be called imaginative. Sony have some great imaginative 2nd party developers, especially Media Molecule, who bring out some really beautiful, fun games.

Nintendo on the other hand do a lot of games development themselves, and while at first glance, the games often have familiar visuals, IE Mario or Link or whoever, but if you take the most recent Mario 3D World on the Wii U for example, there is so much imagination pushed into each and every level within the game that it really outshines anything else that I've played in a long, long time.

Not sure if you implied it but media molecule is first party studio for sony. :P

Daith

DamoElDiablo wrote: »

To be a purer games machine, it'd have to lose the bluray movie functionality. The Wii U only plays games. The PS4 plays games and movies. Not sure how that makes it a 'purer' games machine?

You can watch Netflix on your Wii U yeah? Surely the Blu-Ray players adds to the video games potential by allowing bigger content too. The added gimmick of the tablet distracts from just playing the console.

DamoElDiablo wrote: »

The innovation on the Microsoft platforms mainly comes down to the imagination and ingenuity of the 3rd party developers. I can't recall the last game by Microsoft that could really be called imaginative. Sony have some great imaginative 2nd party developers, especially Media Molecule, who bring out some really beautiful, fun games.

I'm talking about innovation in general for video games. Nintendo haven't bettered the Xbox Live service or provided anything unique there. Sony have some brilliant games that Nintendo can't compete with either. I mean if we are discounting 2nd parties then are we discounting Smash Brothers too?

DamoElDiablo wrote: »

Nintendo on the other hand do a lot of games development themselves, and while at first glance, the games often have familiar visuals, IE Mario or Link or whoever, but if you take the most recent Mario 3D World on the Wii U for example, there is so much imagination pushed into each and every level within the game that it really outshines anything else that I've played in a long, long time.

That's fantastic but it doesn't mean that other companies can't and haven't been as innovative as Nintendo. The initial argument was that it is Nintendo alone doing the innovation. The last Zelda game wasn't innovative at all for me to be honest.

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

Complete nonsense, and an opinion only.
Of all companies, Nintendo has shown that it is dedicated to it's mission of providing innovative gaming experiences.

Allyall

Daith wrote: »

The added gimmick of the tablet distracts from just playing the console.

Woah Woah Woooaaahh!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=km27QN8Zq00

:eek:

Sacrilege.

It most certainly does not. It adds to the gaming experience.
Hopefully more developers will find more ways to implement it. I think watchdogs is going to show the difference of playing with it,more than any other.

Daith

Allyall wrote: »

It most certainly does not. It adds to the gaming experience.
Hopefully more developers will find more ways to implement it. I think watchdogs is going to show the difference of playing with it,more than any other.

Ok. So when I pickup a Wii U, what game makes best use of the tablet? Does Mario 3D World make good use out of it as it's a game I'll def pickup.

Though your use of hope reminds me of the Wii remote. Wii sports was the best use of the remote. Can't remember any other game that made a great use. Shake to jump? Can I not just press a button?

Allyall

Daith wrote: »

Ok. So when I pickup a Wii U, what game makes best use of the tablet? Does Mario 3D World make good use out of it as it's a game I'll def pickup.

Though your use of hope reminds me of the Wii remote. Wii sports was the best use of the remote. Can't remember any other game that made a great use. Shake to jump? Can I not just press a button?

Probably Pokemon Rumble U, Game And Wario, Nintendoland make the most of it.
Deus ex uses it a fair bit.
Zelda will most likely, Hopefully Bayonetta, X will too.
Watchdogs is apparently going to.
Admittedly, it hasn't been utilised as much as many would like, but it definitely does not Distract from playing.

Banjo

As a dedicated off-TV player, the tablet controller focuses my play in ways you couldn't imagine. Or maybe you could - Imagine playing a video game where you had no visual or aural feedback, just the rumble pack, and episodes of America's Chefs Have a Talent For Buying Antiques Off Corpses. How much better would that game be if you had a screen in between your hands with speakers on it? Much better, that's right. Any game that uses the Off TV play option is using the screen right. (So that includes All the VC and Wii titles once you've updated )

Zombi U I felt really used the tablet well - you don't want to look down at it, but you find your eyes drawn to the map, and if you're watching the map you're not watching the screen... you ping the radar and a red blip appears right behind you, then you hear the groan....
That game puts the ****s up me something rotten. Yes, it distracts you from playing, but that's the point. It gives you a tactical advantage but if you rely on it too much it gets you killed. Not being distracted by the map and looting dialog is part of the game mechanics.

By the way, if you think the Wiimote was a waste of time, play PES on Wii. They made brilliant use of the Wiimote (aside from shake-to-shoot which was ditched on '09), turning yet another football game into a sports RTS. Then fly the plane in Wii Sports Resort and try not to say VROOOOOOOOOM!

Daith

Allyall wrote: »

Probably Pokemon Rumble U, Game And Wario, Nintendoland make the most of it.
Deus ex uses it a fair bit.
Zelda will most likely, Hopefully Bayonetta, X will too.
Watchdogs is apparently going to.
Admittedly, it hasn't been utilised as much as many would like, but it definitely does not Distract from playing.

So you can list three games that make best use of the Wii U's unique selling point?

Honest question. The Wii U without the tablet. Would it make a difference now?

Retr0gamer

Daith wrote: »

So you can list three games that make best use of the Wii U's unique selling point?

Honest question. The Wii U without the tablet. Would it make a difference now?

In the first two years of the DS and Wii's life there wasn't much that made good use of the touch screen and motion control. These things take time. I will however say that ZombiU's multiplayer really shows how well the controller can be used. One player is on the screen playing a FPS, the other player with the tablet is playing the part of the dungeon master and putting down zombies and traps to try and kill the player. It works beautifully. Same with Nintendoland. There's great scope for some asynchronous multiplayer with the device and games like ZombiU make good use of it in the single player. It will take a while before we see a lot of games that use it well.

In the meantime it's a damn comfy controller that's great to use and lets you play when the missus is watch corrie.

Daith

Retr0gamer wrote: »

In the first two years of the DS and Wii's life there wasn't much that made good use of the touch screen and motion control. These things take time. I will however say that ZombiU's multiplayer really shows how well the controller can be used. One player is on the screen playing a FPS, the other player with the tablet is playing the part of the dungeon master and putting down zombies and traps to try and kill the player. It works beautifully. Same with Nintendoland. There's great scope for some asynchronous multiplayer with the device and games like ZombiU make good use of it in the single player. It will take a while before we see a lot of games that use it well.

I think this comes back to your point about innovation. Wii Sports, derided by many as a tech demo made fantastic use of the remote. Sold me and lots of others. That E3 presentation when the Nintendo guys played Wii tennis was great.

Nintendo haven't show exactly the best use of the controller or why it is essential to me at least. Off-play is a great idea but not a system seller for me.

Even your original example comes down to it as a local multiplayer experience. I'm not sold tbh but I am waiting for Nintendo to pull a Wii Sports out of their hat.

Allyall

Daith wrote: »

So you can list three games that make best use of the Wii U's unique selling point?

Honest question. The Wii U without the tablet. Would it make a difference now?

I listed three that imo made the best use of it, so far. There are many others that use it.
Also, I was pointing out that it doesnt distract from playing. It adds to it.

Yes, I think it would make a difference now. More so since January, Nintendo have said that they plan on getting the best out of it, so those games are still to come.

Retr0gamer

Daith wrote: »

Nintendo haven't show exactly the best use of the controller or why it is essential to me at least. Off-play is a great idea but not a system seller for me.

Even your original example comes down to it as a local multiplayer experience. I'm not sold tbh but I am waiting for Nintendo to pull a Wii Sports out of their hat.

Well that's a problem for Nintendo, it's a hard sell until you've actually played those games and then it makes sense and you love it. It's hard to reall demonstrate it until you've actually used it.

Daith

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Well that's a problem for Nintendo, it's a hard sell until you've actually played those games and then it makes sense and you love it. It's hard to reall demonstrate it until you've actually used it.

Fair enough but I guess that's where the "distraction" piece comes from with the tablet. Not for playing the game but the overall Wii U experience. Other consoles don't really have that issue. You see a game running that's it.

Likewise how many 1st party Nintendo titles, the games that sell the Wii U actually benefit from it. Does it really enhance Mario Kart 8?

Retr0gamer

The thing is not all games need to use the a systems gimmicks and Nintendo knows this better than anyone. As can be seen in early winds and ps3 games shoehorning in touch screen and motion controls when not needed made a lot of games worse. Sure it doesn't add much to some games or anything in something like tropical freeze where it's turned off, but I'd rather that than poorly thought out shoe horned features.

Daith

Retr0gamer wrote: »

The thing is not all games need to use the a systems gimmicks and Nintendo knows this better than anyone.

That's the question though. Is it a gimmick or an integral part of the Wii U? At the moment it looks more like a gimmick. Would Nintendo be better off releasing the Wii U without the tablet ala MS and Kinect? Lower the price of the Wii U?

C14N

RoyalCelt wrote: »

I seen the graphs with reliable sources on various forums which have hundreds of pages in these threads. Sites such as neogaf and vgchartz (note the sources were not from either of these).

I honestly can't be arsed proving this by trawling through them again. So if it means much to you would you mind getting a source to prove me wrong (or right)?

This is a BS defense in any situation. Saying "prove me wrong" is terrible reasoning, I could just as easily say the Wii U is outselling the Gamecube 5:1 and I'm right until proven wrong. Like I said, I was unable to find figures on early Gamecube sales, I'll be happy to agree with you that it did much better than the Wii U if I at least knew what the numbers were.

RoyalCelt wrote: »

And I base my prediction on a lot of things. The fact is the gaming market is changing and unless they can come up with a new fad for the Wii U successor there won't be room for 3 console manufacturers. This is not pre Ipad days.

But you still have no idea what Nintendo will come up with next. After the medicore sales of the Gamecube and the astonishing sales of the PS2, who would have predicted that the PS3 would have to be dragged for the first 3 years while the Wii was selling out worldwide? And even at that point, who would have predicted that the PS3 would turn things around? When we're still only a few months into this race, you're just guessing blindly.

RoyalCelt wrote: »

The PSV is dead outside of Japan and the 3DS is tanking big time.

Just...what?? How could you possibly think this? It's sold nearly 45m units, each week it's the second biggest seller after the PS4, and it's not far off the PS4. The VGChartz front page shows the top 3 selling games from the week of May 3rd are 3DS games. By any metric, it's doing very well.

RoyalCelt wrote: »

I don't see how after it failing (in sales) so much it can pick the pieces up for it's next one.

I don't see how it makes a difference. How well a console does a few months after release doesn't seem to give any indication at all of how the next one will do at all.

RoyalCelt wrote: »

The harsh reality I'm afraid. I'm calling it now, Nintendo will be the first to leave the industry between the big three and become a software company like sega did. They will likely release on whatever console(s) are dominant when it happens and focus big time on mobile (android, ios etc).

You mean they will leave their primary industry that has historically done very well for them based on a few months of bad sales, despite being in no immediate financial trouble?

RoyalCelt wrote: »

Nintendo are sitting on a lot of money and if they go for another round and lose things could get ugly. April NPD in the USA showed the PS4 on it's own sold more than the Wii, Wii U and 3DS combined.

That's kind of a misleading figure when you consider that the 3DS sells almost as well as the PS4 and the Wii is selling almost nothing. Besides, the PS4 is doing superbly, while the Wii U is not doing well, it doesn't have to reach those lofty heights to be profitable.

RoyalCelt wrote: »

And the Vita apparently sold under 5k that month so you can take it mobile and tablets have killed handhelds.

And the 3DS is selling over 100k per week, so you can take it they haven't.

Daith wrote: »

Now that is rubbish and pure Nintendo fanboi crap. Steam, Sony and Microsoft have all delivered fantastic and innovative gaming experiences not to mention other other companies.

He didn't say nobody else ever did anything, but if you look at this generation there's nothing really innovative about the PS4 or Xbox One. Not saying that makes them bad (in fact, MS tried to innovate and made things worse) but whether you like the Wii U's touch screen or not, it's still about the only thing out there that's new from a console standpoint.

Daith wrote: »

Nintendo can be innovative but they aren't the only ones and the Occulus Rift makes the Wii U and it's IPad fearing tablet look stone age in comparison.

Oculus Rift is PC only, it won't affect the console race. Morpheus might but there's still no release date in sight or details about actual performance.