Liverpool v Aston Villa 17.30 hrs Sky Sports 1

COYVB

it is not the natural reaction to drop to the ground when you're barely touched at pace. It's a new thing. proof:

quarryman

Genuine question: Do any Liverpool fans actually think it was correctly awarded as a penalty?

hadepsx

yes. you cant come rushing out like that unless you're 100% bout getting the ball

Hyzepher

maybe someone can post a still of where the contact was actually made - i cant work it out

BMMachine

it was a dive. simple as. happens quite a lot if people haven't noticed

monkey9

andyman wrote: »

Look at Suarez's left leg. There is absolutely no reason for it just collapsing before placing it back on the ground.

It's not a penalty. He wouldn't go down if it was in his own half and it wouldn't be a foul, so why is it different in the penalty box?

And this "every player does it" thing that someone said is complete nonsense. If another player does it, it's a dive as well.

There's no doubt he's decided to fall rather than being brought down. But once Guzman comes out like that, he needs to win the ball.

Will I Amnt

hadepsx wrote: »

yes. you cant come rushing out like that unless you're 100% bout getting the ball

Do you have any idea how stupid that statement is?

hadepsx

explain then?

COYVB

monkey9 wrote: »

There's no doubt he's decided to fall rather than being brought down

That's entirely his decision to make, but if he's not brought down it's not a penalty

Gavlor

hadepsx wrote: »

yes. you cant come rushing out like that unless you're 100% bout getting the ball

This is making my eyes bleed

Will I Amnt

hadepsx wrote: »

explain then?

I'll leave you to ponder it.

monkey9

quarryman wrote: »

Genuine question: Do any Liverpool fans actually think it was correctly awarded as a penalty?

Suarez dived and it shouldn't be a penalty. Even if there's minimal contact it shouldn't be a penalty that still doesn't mean he's been fouled.

I know I'm repeating myself here, but the emphasis is on the keeper winning the ball once he's rushed out like that. Once he hasn't got anywhere near the ball, it's tough sh!t if the peno is awarded.

hadepsx

thought so

Washington Irving

rarnes1 wrote: »

/unsubscribes

Who subscribes to match threads?

quarryman

COYVB wrote: »

it is not the natural reaction to drop to the ground when you're barely touched at pace. It's a new thing. proof:

The guy was incredible. Check out 3:30, the opposition literally give up trying to win the ball off him.

Will I Amnt

hadepsx wrote: »

thought so

Ok, so the keeper should stay on his line? Not bother closing down the angle or even pressure the forward?
He can always pull out like he did if he's not "100% sure" he's going to get it...

quarryman

monkey9 wrote: »

Suarez dived and it shouldn't be a penalty. Even if there's minimal contact it shouldn't be a penalty that still doesn't mean he's been fouled.

I know I'm repeating myself here, but the emphasis is on the keeper winning the ball once he's rushed out like that. Once he hasn't got anywhere near the ball, it's tough sh!t if the peno is awarded.

What's frustrating is that he has incredible balance when in possession. He's well able to stay up under a heavy challenge.

If there has to a debate about IF there was even contact then it wasn't enough to take him down.

monkey9

COYVB wrote: »

That's entirely his decision to make, but if he's not brought down it's not a penalty

Listen, I completely understand as a Villa fan you'll be p!ssed off. But it's not like Suarez was running alongside a defender and then out nowhere, just jumps through the air.

The keeper rushes out like that and the player is going to fall. That's football now. So when he rushes out, he needs to win the ball.

I'm not being biased here by the way. King Kenny's first game back in charge of Liverpool was at Old Trafford in a cup match. Berbatov took a tumble from an Agger tackle. There was no contact or at most very minimal. Basically Berbatov dived, but I said the same back then. It was tough. Once Agger sticks his leg out, he better make sure he wins the ball.

niallo27

I thought it was a penalty myself.

padd b1975

SaulGoode9 wrote: »

Who subscribes to match threads?

Probably their way of saying that they consider themselves above this debate.

shamrock55

No way was it a pen, luis cheated no doubt but he did it well enough to fool the ref

monkey9

quarryman wrote: »

What's frustrating is that he has incredible balance when in possession. He's well able to stay up under a heavy challenge.

If there has to a debate about IF there was even contact then it wasn't enough to take him down.

This is what wrecks my head. People search and rewind and slow things down looking for contact just so they can justify the penalty being awarded. This is what I'm saying about there being no difference between no contact and Guzman making contact. Suarez still hasn't been brought down, he's made the decision himself. Contact shouldn't always equate to a foul. This isn't basketball.

It's not that big a deal though, this happens all the time. It's because it's Suarez, people are going like greatest injustice of all time.

Washington Irving

padd b1975 wrote: »

Probably their way of saying that they consider themselves above this debate.

Yeah, I gathered that. I probably should have added a smiley to emphasise to joking manner the post was intended to be taken in.

(:pac:)

toxicity234

reading here, before see the penalty on the nine o'clock news.
was expecting to see a dodge call.
The goalie come out sliding out, Suarez get to the ball first. Smart from Suarez and a penalty in any league in the world.
Might not be stone wall but it still a penalty.
if it was RVP, Torres or Young it would be an penalty and they be a little or no talk about it.
But that life for Suarez and if a goalie pull a gun and shot suarez some people would say he dive. it fun to read the first 1000 time but after that it get old.
A good result for Villa, well done to them.

K-9

quarryman wrote: »

Genuine question: Do any Liverpool fans actually think it was correctly awarded as a penalty?

I can see why the ref gave it. A Spanish penalty 2 weeks in a row for us, Rodgers outburst was well worth the fine!

monkey9

K-9 wrote: »

I can see why the ref gave it. A Spanish penalty 2 weeks in a row for us, Rodgers outburst was well worth the fine!

Rodgers called it a Uruguayan penalty!!! Haha

Laois_Man

Well, there's one former Liverpool player who refuses to tow the party line.....

JPA

It's interesting to see the divide of opinion on the dive.
I wonder does it go beyond team allegiance and become more about younger vs older fans.
Younger fans are more accepting of diving or going down easy while older fans believe that contact is fine to a certain extent.

You hear the term "it's part of the game" so much but to me it's just not.

Gavlor

Funny thing is that despite it being a dodgy call, liverpool got the penalty and scored. Game over. Yet most on here still aren't honest enough to admit it was the wrong decision.

Rose tinted glasses and all that.

BMJD

If you listen closely, you can hear Suarez mutter "go back to america you bleedin foreigner" before taking a sly bite out of Guzan

#outrage #moralhighground

Was there contact? Yes
Could he have stayed on his feet? Probably
Is he the only one who does this? No


The problem with the faux-outrage towards Suarez is that sooner or later it will be on your own doorstep, just ask José

Young, Rooney, Cazorla, Ramires, Oscar,.................................

citytillidie

Laois_Man wrote: »

Well, there's one former Liverpool player who refuses to tow the party line.....

Hmmm maybe because he is Villa fan :pac::D;):eek:

andyman

BMJD wrote: »

If you listen closely, you can hear Suarez mutter "go back to america you bleedin foreigner" before taking a sly bite out of Guzan

#outrage #moralhighground

Was there contact? Yes
Could he have stayed on his feet? Probably
Is he the only one who does this? No


The problem with the faux-outrage towards Suarez is that sooner or later it will be on your own doorstep, just ask José

Young, Rooney, Cazorla, Ramires, Oscar,.................................

You're missing the important point here. Is the contact enough to bring him down?

No, it's not, therefore it's simulation.

And when those players listed above do it, it's simulation as well. So I really don't get what you're trying to say here..

K-9

Laois_Man wrote: »

Well, there's one former Liverpool player who refuses to tow the party line.....

[IMG][/img]https://fbcdn-photos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/t1/1525116_741599185852302_283271119_n.png

Stan drumming up the attention for his radio show.

JPA wrote: »

It's interesting to see the divide of opinion on the dive.
I wonder does it go beyond team allegiance and become more about younger vs older fans.
Younger fans are more accepting of diving or going down easy while older fans believe that contact is fine to a certain extent.

You hear the term "it's part of the game" so much but to me it's just not.

Probably onto something. Some of the hand balls that are given annoy me far more, and yep, I've complained when Liverpool benefited from them too. I think it's far easier to get a penalty from a hand ball than it was 20 years ago.

Linieker and Shearer gave a good shout about it on MotD, what's Suarez supposed to do, dive to his left out of Guzmann's way?

monkey9

Laois_Man wrote: »

Well, there's one former Liverpool player who refuses to tow the party line.....

Oh yeah, Liverpool legend there alright. You do know he played for Villa as well and us from the region? Not that anything Collymore says should be taken seriously anyway. The chap is a clown.

monkey9

andyman wrote: »

You're missing the important point here. Is the contact enough to bring him down?

No, it's not, therefore it's simulation.

And when those players listed above do it, it's simulation as well. So I really don't get what you're trying to say here..

Then Guzman should have won the ball, he knows what's going to happen if he doesn't.

LiamoSail

Laois_Man wrote: »

Well, there's one former Liverpool player who refuses to tow the party line.....

If that Wife beater thinks anyone with an ounce of sense will take any notice of his thoughts on abuse, then he's even more deluded then he comes across.

andyman

monkey9 wrote: »

Then Guzman should have won the ball, he knows what's going to happen if he doesn't.

Of course, the standard "the keeper puts the ref in that position" bollocks to try and justify simulation.

SantryRed

Just seen it, never a penalty. It was definite simulation. Fair play to Suarez though, he seen a chance and took it tbh. That point could be huge for 4th at the end of the season.

niallo27

SantryRed wrote: »

Just seen it, never a penalty. It was definite simulation. Fair play to Suarez though, he seen a chance and took it tbh. That point could be huge for 4th at the end of the season.

The penalties he didn't get during the year will probably be more important in fairness.

BMJD

andyman wrote: »

You're missing the important point here. Is the contact enough to bring him down?

No, it's not, therefore it's simulation.

And when those players listed above do it, it's simulation as well. So I really don't get what you're trying to say here..

I'm not missing it at all. The fact is that contact + fall = penalty unless Guzan got the ball first, which he didn't. That's where the line has been drawn. How much contact do you want to have to make it a penalty? Grab the player's ankles? Break 'em?

was it morally wholesome? probably not but hey, that's life
maybe that point will be the difference between fourth and fifth place, I doubt too many players of any team would turn it down

move on, questionable ìncindents happen in every match, every week

matrim

monkey9 wrote: »

Then Guzman should have won the ball, he knows what's going to happen if he doesn't.

Guzman plays for Swansea

martingriff

andyman wrote: »

You're missing the important point here. Is the contact enough to bring him down?

No, it's not, therefore it's simulation.

And when those players listed above do it, it's simulation as well. So I really don't get what you're trying to say here..

I think your missing BMJD's pont is that he is not saying was the penalty right or not but the that everyone is getting on there high horse about Suarez but it happens in every club he mention a number of players so will then those posters who get on there high horse about Suarez get give out the same when it is a player from there own team. Guarantee a lot would not.

Off course he went down easy and should not have been a penalty.

Edit I may have missed his point

COYVB

andyman wrote: »

Of course, the standard "the keeper puts the ref in that position" bollocks to try and justify simulation.

Just like the girl in the short skirt puts the rapist in a bad position

Lord Trollington

The Surez penalty decision is going to mask the abysmal performance liverpool put in against Aston Villa.

Toure and Gerrard played a big part liverpool failing to secure 2 points. Cissokho played his part also. Never thought I'd say it but I cannot wait until Enrique is back fit.

We had no shape in the first half. How many times did Toure kick an aimless high ball forward? Completely at odds to the way we've been playing for the majority of this season.

That was 2 points dropped, make no mistake about it.

BMJD

COYVB wrote: »

Just like the girl in the short skirt puts the rapist in a bad position

Leave Torres out of this, Vidic was asking for it

monkey9

andyman wrote: »

Of course, the standard "the keeper puts the ref in that position" bollocks to try and justify simulation.

'The standard' . Look, Suarez dived. But that's football. Fans need to accept that. Guzman didn't win the ball, the rest was inevitable. Everyone does it. The same as claiming a throw or corner when it's obvious it hit off your own player.

andyman

BMJD wrote: »

I'm not missing it at all. The fact is that contact + fall = penalty unless Guzman got the ball first, which he didn't. That's where the line has been drawn. How much contact do you want to have to make it a penalty? Grab the player's ankles? Break 'em?

was it morally wholesome? probably not but hey, that's life
maybe that point will be the difference between fourth and fifth place, I doubt too many players of any team would turn it down

move on, questionable ìncindents happen in every match, every week

I said earlier on that more physical contact occurs in all areas of the pitch and players are still able to stay upright. Why is this not the case in the penalty area?

Contact + fall does equal penalty. However a slight brush (which happen in all areas of the pitch in every game every weekend and aren't enough to bring players down bar the penalty area) and a dive does not equal a penalty.

It's wrong, it's simulation, it's deceiving the referee. End of.

monkey9

matrim wrote: »

Guzman plays for Swansea

What's his name?

monkey9

COYVB wrote: »

Just like the girl in the short skirt puts the rapist in a bad position

Oh f*ck right off will ya!!

andyman

monkey9 wrote: »

'The standard' . Look, Suarez dived. But that's football. Fans need to accept that. Guzman didn't win the ball, the rest was inevitable. Everyone does it. The same as claiming a throw or corner when it's obvious it hit off your own player.

"Everyone does it" doesn't make it acceptable.

It's Guzan, btw.