new website idea, need help

kenk121

I have a great new website idea but have little knowledge of getting one set up or hosted etc. There is a similar website in the US but not in Ireland.

jimmii

It depends if you want a .ie or not you can see the rules regarding .ie registrations here http://www.register365.com/ie.html

There is also a whole sticky about registering a .ie on the forum http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056271832

Is it a service website, a forum or are you selling a product? Depending on what you are planning on doing there will be different things you need to do registration wise.

kenk121

Hi Jimmii

Its a service website. Can you give me any idea of cost for a website similar to donedeal or daft? All I can say is its similar but a twist that would attract more customers

jimmii

When you say cost what do you mean? If you want to set up a site and have viewing numbers like them then you would need a lot of money! The cost of setting up a site is really a how long is a piece of string type question you can set up a website for <€20 if you want or you can spend tens of thousands. If you think you can get more customers than daft then I think you will probably be in for a surprise it takes a lot of work to get to that level.

kenk121

I never said I'd be looking for more customers then daft, I posted here looking for advise. If all people were as negative as you none of these websites would have ever been set up, they didn't have all those customers when they were at this stage, and yes I am prepared to spend about 50k on this project and hope to have allot of customers. Prob never as much as them tho

jimmii wrote: »

When you say cost what do you mean? If you want to set up a site and have viewing numbers like them then you would need a lot of money! The cost of setting up a site is really a how long is a piece of string type question you can set up a website for <€20 if you want or you can spend tens of thousands. If you think you can get more customers than daft then I think you will probably be in for a surprise it takes a lot of work to get to that level.

jimmii

Sorry when you said:

kenk121 wrote: »

Hi Jimmii

Its a service website. Can you give me any idea of cost for a website similar to donedeal or daft? All I can say is its similar but a twist that would attract more customers

I thought you meant you would attract more customers but I guess you meant something else! With a budget of €50k you can definitely get off to a good start. Is it a service people are likely to be googling often or is it going to be something completely new to Ireland?

kenk121

Yes it would be Googled allot. It's not entirely new but would be an improved version of something already there but it would be more appealing to the end customer so this would make it the website to use over the competitors

jimmii wrote: »

Sorry when you said:



I thought you meant you would attract more customers but I guess you meant something else! With a budget of €50k you can definitely get off to a good start. Is it a service people are likely to be googling often or is it going to be something completely new to Ireland?

jimmii

Approach a few developers who have experience developing sites in the field you are after and see what they can do development wise and SEO/advertising wise. By the sounds of it you could be on to something is the US site pretty new or has it got an established history? Very curious to see what it is make sure to let us know when you get it up and running!

Peterdalkey

Might be worth going along to your Enterprise Board to see about getting specialised advice in the areas and even better an online guru mentor. You have the funds to be a serious prospect to them.

jimmii

Would probably qualify for High Postential Start Up funding I would have thought http://www.enterprise-ireland.com/en/funding-supports/Company/HPSU-Funding/

Graham

jimmii wrote: »

Would probably qualify for High Postential Start Up funding I would have thought http://www.enterprise-ireland.com/en/funding-supports/Company/HPSU-Funding/

Not for a domestic product.

It also has to be innovative, like DAFT/DoneDeal with XYZ doesn't sound that innovative.

This may help:

http://www.enterprise-ireland.com/en/funding-supports/Company/Have-a-Startup-Idea/

Kenk121, before you start throwing wads of cash at getting a web site built, get someone to help you with writing a proper business plan/spec. Preferably someone who isn't also offering to build you the website.

Stamply

Start slow and build an MVC/proof of concept. Build the core functionality even if there is loads of manual management in the admin section. Manual management can be great for learning how the different types of users are using the application.

If you're willing to spend that kind of money type in "Web design" into Google and pick the top three companies to speak to. You'll need very slick design, a good partner company and a plan for phasing the build, rolling out the parts you know you'll definitely need in the beginning while learning more about the market & user behaviour in order to build the more uncertain features & functionality later. There is no such thing as a complete product in web or software, its a constant evolution...

kenk121

Hi Graham

Thanks for your reply. That's what I'm looking for, someone that can advise and guide me. Would be willing to give % of the business in return

Graham wrote: »

Not for a domestic product.

It also has to be innovative, like DAFT/DoneDeal with XYZ doesn't sound that innovative.

This may help:

http://www.enterprise-ireland.com/en/funding-supports/Company/Have-a-Startup-Idea/

Kenk121, before you start throwing wads of cash at getting a web site built, get someone to help you with writing a proper business plan/spec. Preferably someone who isn't also offering to build you the website.

EIREHotspur

When talking to the local Enterprise Board be prepared and brace yourself for the term "Business Course" that will come up at least 45 times in the course of the conversation....they are also in the Business of giving Business Courses...I kid you not...experience of this in the last 6 months with several people I dealt with. They would like nothing better than to sit you in a room, show you endless powerpoint presentations and recite wonderfull insightful clever business quotes they downloaded from the internet.

I echo what the lads have said....you need to talk to an accountant who will guide you through a Business plan and also when you come to building a website...pick a web developer who will invest time with you and be available on an ongoing basis.
Scale your website as you go along and beware of outlandish quotes.

Also if you do get quotes on per section of development and not on a per hour basis.

Atomico

Forget about web design and quotes until you tease out your concept a bit more and figure out if there is an actual market for your service. Web design companies will be only too happy to quote you for something, the first thing you need to look into is whether this is a viable / good idea at all.

It sounds like it might be a 'Daft / Done Deal with this extra feature they've missed' type of idea, which doesn't sound very promising at all. That's not being negative, just realistic. If you are looking to build something that is similar to these kind of sites, it's going to need to be offer something they don't / can't - and it's unlikely that that is going to be something worth building.

EIREHotspur

Read his post again Atomico.

He wants to build a Services website....similar to donedeal.ie or daft.ie meaning in scale, design or features.

He merely gave those as examples of Services websites with website features he thought he would need....not websites he was looking to replicate.

As Steve Jobs once said...."Going into Business it is important you have a great filter system"...as in ignore the negativity you get.
My advice to him is do his own research and if he believes in it...go for it!

Atomico

EIREHotspur wrote: »

Read his post again Atomico.

He wants to build a Services website....similar to donedeal.ie or daft.ie meaning in scale, design or features.

He merely gave those as examples of Services websites with website features he thought he would need....not websites he was looking to replicate.

How can you tell that from his posts exactly?!

I already read his post. He said:

Can you give me any idea of cost for a website similar to donedeal or daft?

Then he also said the idea is similar to those sites but 'with a twist'. So based on the very limited info provided so far, it looks like he is looking at building a site that is similar to these established sites, presumably with some sort of additional feature or 'twist'. The question is, if these sites (or other sites) have not implemented this features, is there a chance it's not worth building?

EIREHotspur wrote: »

As Steve Jobs once said...."Going into Business it is important you have a great filter system"...as in ignore the negativity you get.
My advice to him is do his own research and if he believes in it...go for it!

I'm all for ignoring negativity, but as I did say in my post, I'm not being negative - merely realistic. We are also saying the same thing here - research and figure out if there is a market. The world is full of ideas people believed in but which went nowhere, right? So by all means be positive and believe in the idea, once you've figured out that it really is a good one. That may involve building an MVP at a modest cost, but do the research first!

EIREHotspur

I agree with you....and your answer is reasonable and measured...a lot of people would get provoked by my response.

I know that by the manner in which he tried to tell us and not give away his idea.

If I had a website idea like Boris Johnson's (who got the idea somewhere else) of renting out bikes around the major cities in Ireland....I would come here and ask "how much would a website like www.budget.ie cost to do....I have an idea in the services area similar to that but with a twist".

The twist would be it is bikes, not cars but by using that website I would know that I needed someone to be able to log on, use their CC and book a car (bike) and a map to show locations.

"Can you give me any idea of cost for a website similar to donedeal or daft?"

If his idea was for people to sell items or sell houses...then he would have just gave away his idea.

Atomico

I know what you mean. However, in this case I suspect that the OP may actually be thinking about an alternative Daft or Done Deal, pr perhaps a listings site in another area that takes a different approach or position to the established player(s).

We will have to await further info I guess

narubi

Good luck with the website. However I would suggest you to do some extended research before you spend 50,000 for advertisement. Try to find out why there is no such website already developed in Ireland yet. Use the Google keyword tool or other tools to see how many monthly searches and potential customers will you get from Google. Or even ask people you know or some strangers, or online if they would like to have such website in Ireland and if they would use it on daily basis.

Or you can PM me your website idea and I can give you an advice. Don't worry I already have many websites and I am busy developing them. I won't steal your idea

jmcc

kenk121 wrote: »

I never said I'd be looking for more customers then daft, I posted here looking for advise.

There are many web developers capable of building a small website. Most of them will probably offer to build such a small site for your venture and they might, through not knowing any better, expect it to scale. However building a large scale, scalable site is a very difficult thing to do and most web developers are not capable of doing this because it requires a set of skills (software engineering, hardware engineering, programming, database design and development, web development, marketing, and administration) that are rarely found in one individual.

If all people were as negative as you none of these websites would have ever been set up, they didn't have all those customers when they were at this stage, and yes I am prepared to spend about 50k on this project and hope to have allot of customers. Prob never as much as them tho

Daft were very much in the right place at the right time but they also have a good team. Donedeal got its timing right but they put a lot of work in to promoting it so it is not just the website. There will be a lot of eager people wanting to take that 50K but you might be better off working out a business plan and a requirements specification before you build anything.

Regards...jmcc

ironclaw

Hey OP, I'm a developer both in web and iPhone. If you fancy, shoot me the idea by PM (I'll go on the record here as it being entire confidential and I have dealt with people here before) and I'll try give you an idea of its feasibility and the approximate cost.

jmcc

Perhaps for fun, developers who are offering their expertise can also mention the last Daft/Donedeal scale site they built or alternatively, the size and complexity of the last large site that they built.

Regards...jmcc

ironclaw

jmcc wrote: »

Perhaps for fun, developers who are offering there expertise can also mention the last Daft/Donedeal scale site they built or alternatively, the size and complexity of the last large site that they built.

Regards...jmcc

Donedeal or Daft isn't actually that complex. Genuinely. A decent few days with 2 or 3 people would build an exact replica. A single person could probably knock out a decent version in a week.

Where they differ, is the sheer amount of users and brand awareness. And that is impossible to put a price on. Its like MySpace and facebook, why is one more popular over the other? Buy And Sell was here LONG before Donedeal and had a website first. But DoneDeal just garnered a cult following for second hand car sales (In my opinion) and that just started the ball rolling in the snow for them.

If you want to be anywhere near DoneDeal or Daft, 90% of your budget will be advertising.

Buttercake

kenk121 wrote: »

I never said I'd be looking for more customers then daft, I posted here looking for advise. If all people were as negative as you none of these websites would have ever been set up, they didn't have all those customers when they were at this stage, and yes I am prepared to spend about 50k on this project and hope to have allot of customers. Prob never as much as them tho

Nothing worse than a "I got an idea and lots of cash" guy. This is an open forum where you get quick responses for free from users experienced in answering these type of posts, nothing negative to your idea. Look forward to seeing your site.

paulheu

kenk121 wrote: »

Hi Jimmii

Its a service website. Can you give me any idea of cost for a website similar to donedeal or daft? All I can say is its similar but a twist that would attract more customers

Building a website like that requires much more then hosting. If it is (going to be) as good as you seem to think it will be you need a lot of bandwidth a lot of backend storage and power and a team of people keeping it all together.

To get it of the ground I doubt you would be able to make it work for less than high 5 figures and that's just the startup. the 50K you mention would probably be just enough to start on a tight budget, but it won't go anywhere near keeping a project like this running. Getting the site out and into the public eye alone would likely gobble up that money.

nikinova

Hi please PM me if you would like advice on setting up a site and have SEO, SMM, SEM done. I have working experience and do freelance in this area.

jmcc

ironclaw wrote: »

Donedeal or Daft isn't actually that complex. Genuinely. A decent few days with 2 or 3 people would build an exact replica. A single person could probably knock out a decent version in a week.

And a single person or two or three could probably use it at the same time. Scaling for multiple simultaneous users is a bit more complex.

Its like MySpace and facebook, why is one more popular over the other?

Management team, marketing strategy, software/hardware design and an initially clearly defined market that grew.

Buy And Sell was here LONG before Donedeal and had a website first.

Buy and Sell had a magazine first. The site was an outgrowth of that. It even wanted to give away shares in its website company at the height of the DotCom bubble because some US companies were doing so as a marketing gimmick. (There was also Ebid.ie (a poor Ebay clone by people who didn't understand what eBay was doing).

But DoneDeal just garnered a cult following for second hand car sales (In my opinion) and that just started the ball rolling in the snow for them.

They also did a lot of on the ground marketing when it seemed like eBay was the only game in town.

If you want to be anywhere near DoneDeal or Daft, 90% of your budget will be advertising.

It will still need the other stuff.

Regards...jmcc

Peterdalkey

If I wanted to set up such a site, I would be looking to buy a packaged CMS to run it, and not seek to build from scratch. I would spend my money on great graphic design and site promotion not on mechanics that I can buy off the shelf.

EIREHotspur

You know I doubt there is anyone more help in this Business than you Peter and I don't think I have read anything you posted that I have not agreed with.

You and ironclaw speak sense.

Without naming names....it is absolute yuppy double speak nonsense to throw around Web Development Terms that I have read here.

Daft.ie and Donedeal.ie are two successful websites with some of the worst design I have seen....lovely design for maybe 10 years ago.
They are built by Web Developers with Database knowledge.

You can buy ready made solutions, edit them and add in the database structure and scale up as you go along.

software engineering, hardware engineering, programming, database design and development, web development and administration = DREAMWEAVER

marketing is what makes the difference....that's a real skill to have.

Graham

EIREHotspur wrote: »

You know I doubt there is anyone more help in this Business than you Peter and I don't think I have read anything you posted that I have not agreed with.

You and ironclaw speak sense.

Without naming names....it is absolute yuppy double speak nonsense to throw around Web Development Terms that I have read here.

Daft.ie and Donedeal.ie are two successful websites with some of the worst design I have seen....lovely design for maybe 10 years ago.
They are built by Web Developers with Database knowledge.

You can buy ready made solutions, edit them and add in the database structure and scale up as you go along.

software engineering, hardware engineering, programming, database design and development, web development and administration = DREAMWEAVER

marketing is what makes the difference....that's a real skill to have.

I'd agree with Peters suggestion, commercial off the shelf software to start with customised enough to validate the concept. If it doesn't work, no big loss. If it does work be sure you have a team ready to start putting out fires in a hurry.

EIREHotspur, you're in danger of throwing out some really good advice with the sweeping generalisations of your last post.

There's a big difference between a 'developer' that can cobble together a basic website and someone that's able to build a scaleable/resilient/secure large scale web app.

There are one or two posters here who have hands-on experience at the higher end of the market, they aren't here to sell their skills/wares at all. In fact they have nothing to gain personally by sharing the benefit of their experience. Are these the double speaking yuppies you're referring to?