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new website idea, need help

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    #32
    EIREHotspur
    Registered Users Posts: 767 ✭✭✭EIREHotspur


    Graham I am from the midlands so you will have to forgive me for not being into the whole Web Development speak.....like software engineering or any of those hi filuting terms that people like to blind non tech people with.

    Like Ironclaw says in simple plain every day English.
    "Donedeal or Daft isn't actually that complex".

    If my car is towed to a garage after it breaks down on a highway and I go talk to the guy who will fix it....I don't want him to show how clever he is at his job by impressing me with his knowledge of electronics for half an hour.

    "My car is broke....what is wrong with it, how much will it cost me and how long will it take"?

    This guy doesn't want to hear complicated jargon....anything else is yuppy double speak.

    "a 'developer' that can cobble together a basic website".
    That's not a Developer....that's a Designer.

    and someone that's able to build a scaleable/resilient/secure large scale web app.
    Are you talking Web Apps now or Mobile Web Apps.
    People who can do actual Apps with original features have software coding skills...there are off the shelf solutions again if you wanted to do Apps.


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    #33
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    EIREHotspur wrote: »
    ...software engineering, hardware engineering, programming, database design and development, web development and administration = DREAMWEAVER

    It really isn't.
    EIREHotspur wrote: »
    marketing is what makes the difference....that's a real skill to have.

    Marketing can make a big difference. But I don't think it will save a service/product that doesn't work for customers/users.


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    #34
    EIREHotspur
    Registered Users Posts: 767 ✭✭✭EIREHotspur


    ok take software engineering, hardware engineering and programming out.


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    #35
    Buttercake
    Registered Users Posts: 539 ✭✭✭Buttercake


    Don't know any web developers these days who use Dreamweaver...


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    #36
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    EIREHotspur wrote: »
    Graham I am from the midlands so you will have to forgive me for not being into the whole Web Development speak.....like software engineering or any of those hi filuting terms that people like to blind non tech people with.

    I'm not sure your birthplace is entirely relevant but I'm assuming you speak the same language and use the same computers/internet as us city folk.
    EIREHotspur wrote: »
    Like Ironclaw says in simple plain every day English.
    "Donedeal or Daft isn't actually that complex".

    Superficially, maybe not. My fear for the OP is that he finds a developer to relieve him of €50k while cobbling together a website that superficially does the same as Donedeal or Daft.
    EIREHotspur wrote: »
    If my car is towed to a garage after it breaks down on a highway and I go talk to the guy who will fix it....I don't want him to show how clever he is at his job by impressing me with his knowledge of electronics for half an hour.

    "My car is broke....what is wrong with it, how much will it cost me and how long will it take"?

    Your car isn't likely to have to carry several hundred/thousand passenger at the same time.

    The OP is talking about websites that may need to support hundreds of simultaneous users, the technology required to support that is way beyond what a WP Monkey may have picked up during his 4 week FAS course.

    To borrow your analogy, the OP is talking about opening a garage, not getting a car repaired.
    EIREHotspur wrote: »
    This guy doesn't want to hear complicated jargon....anything else is yuppy double speak.

    Terms you don't necessarily understand aren't automatically yuppy double speak. They may actually indicate there's an entire industry behind what it is you're trying to have a conversation about.

    Redundancy, resilience, load balancing, cache, RAID, CDNs, DNS, I could go on but I won't. These are all things I wouldn't expect an end-user to have a clue about but they are all things you are utilising every time you open your browser.
    EIREHotspur wrote: »
    "a 'developer' that can cobble together a basic website".
    That's not a Developer....that's a Designer.

    Not sure I'd agree there either. Unfortunately there's plenty of people out there that are neither designer or developer but have enough rudimentary knowledge of html and dreamweaver drag & drop database interactions to convince themselves (and occasionally an unfortunate client) that they can build DAFT for €300 and a packet of Taytos in 3 days.
    EIREHotspur wrote: »
    and someone that's able to build a scaleable/resilient/secure large scale web app.
    Are you talking Web Apps now or Mobile Web Apps.

    There isn't much difference between web apps and mobile web apps, in fact increasingly they are one and the same presented via a responsive design.
    EIREHotspur wrote: »
    People who can do actual Apps with original features have software coding skills...there are off the shelf solutions again if you wanted to do Apps.

    There are COTS (commercial off the shelf) solutions available for many popular App segments. Just look for any successful first-to-market web site and there's nearly always a 'clone' script/package available to do a similar thing. They can be fantastic for testing a market.

    Problems only arise when you have a non-technical client being 'assisted' either by the salesman of the script or by someone who has no commercial experience beyond a few basic WordPress sites and a cobbled together mobile app.


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    #37
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    https://blog.donedeal.ie/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/DoneDeal-Case-Study-Jan-2010.pdf
    For many start-ups, a deficit of technical skills represents an early challenge. This was
    not an issue for DoneDeal.ie. Fred is a software developer who began designing and
    selling computer games as a 15-year-old in Sweden while Wexford born Geraldine
    holds a computer science degree from Waterford Institute of Technology.
    “Because we had the IT background, it was easy enough to put up the website.
    Obviously it took a lot of work but we knew what we were doing and it didn’t cost us
    anything because we did it all ourselves, so we were very lucky that way,” recalls Fred.

    Food for thought.


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    #38
    mrnobodyfan87
    Registered Users Posts: 60 ✭✭mrnobodyfan87


    kenk121 wrote: »
    I have a great new website idea but have little knowledge of getting one set up or hosted etc. There is a similar website in the US but not in Ireland.

    Hosting depends on how popular it is. Not very popular = cheap (20 euro/month), popular = expensive.

    Getting one set up will be a big cost if it needs to be custom made. Like someone said previously, getting pre-made software and getting it modified/designed to suit your needs might be a good idea.

    Also, are you sure the American company won't come in and crush you? :P


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    #39
    Peterdalkey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,091 ✭✭✭Peterdalkey


    Hey Lads
    It is sad to see the direction this thread is taking, it is not good to see some of our more expert posters throwing rocks. Step back and concentrate on giving your own opinion and suggestions. These threads where one post engenders a critique of that post made, always end up with the participants engaged in swinging dick The OP is generally long gone... Check out the recent Bitcoin thread to see what I am talking about!


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    #40
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    I think the same point is being made by all. Just not from the same POV.

    I think its summed up best by Graham
    Graham wrote: »
    ...Kenk121, before you start throwing wads of cash at getting a web site built, get someone to help you with writing a proper business plan/spec. Preferably someone who isn't also offering to build you the website.

    I think once you've done the business plan, the spec for the website will write itself. You'll know what you want from the website at that point.


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    #41
    EIREHotspur
    Registered Users Posts: 767 ✭✭✭EIREHotspur


    Ok I will give my own opinion.

    He needs an Accountant for the Business plan.

    He needs a Web Developer he will have a good ongoing relationship with to build the website and add features as time goes on.

    Any Web Developer worth their salt will build a Website with good a relational Database and good Content Management system with control over everything.

    He could start off small and If his website is successful in the long term future and he needs robust solution with ◦Dedicated Hosting the most he will pay is around €350 a month.

    What is the difference between the National carzone.ie and coltonmotors.ie in Tullamore??

    The carzone.ie website has a bigger backend relational database and a bigger budget starting off.
    Get the database design right starting off and it scales easily going forward.

    There is no great mystique with Web Development despite what someone charging many of thousands of euro will tell you.....it isn't as difficult as Game Development coding.

    One person can develop a website such as those whereas if one guy was working on Call Of Duty you would be waiting 20 years or more for your next version because that is actually very difficult to develop.


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    #42
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    EIREHotspur wrote: »
    ...What is the difference between the National carzone.ie and coltonmotors.ie in Tullamore??...

    No idea. Seems to be no connection between either site (or indeed the topic). They are owned by the same massive media group now.

    Carzone was started by another person with a IT Development background and built by (his?) web design company. Then bought by Trader Media Group after it was successful.

    http://www.worky.com/peter-crowley

    ColtonMotors is a generic dealer site done by Trader Media Group a massive media organisation

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trader_Media_Group

    A lot of smart and savvy people no doubt.


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    #43
    jmcc
    Registered Users Posts: 7,412 ✭✭✭jmcc


    EIREHotspur wrote: »
    Graham I am from the midlands so you will have to forgive me for not being into the whole Web Development speak.....like software engineering or any of those hi filuting terms that people like to blind non tech people with.
    They are not high faluting terms that people use to blind non-tech people. When you are running large scale websites they are very real issues. The people working on them have to know what creates bottlenecks in software, the effects of changing the way a program works with the rest of the site, whether it is better to scale a database up with one very high power multiprocessor database server, lots of RAM and harddrives, or to scale out with a master/slaves model with smaller, less powerful servers, whether a site can be designed to scale horizontally so that the problem of extra users can be dealt with by firing up a few extra servers.
    Like Ironclaw says in simple plain every day English.
    "Donedeal or Daft isn't actually that complex".
    The thing about such sites is that people see the frontend and think that these are not very complex sites. What they don't see are the servers behind it, the administrative interfaces, the backup systems, the redundant servers, the database servers, the people administering the site, the marketing people etc. On the surface, Boards.ie might look like just another web forum. At first glance, a random web developer/designer might think that they can stick up a copy of VBulletin on shared hosting and have the same thing going. However when you look at things like the active users statistic (3,050 (918 registered, 2,132 guests) ) on the front page, the similarities fall away.

    Then there are the search engines. That's something that a lot of small scale site developers don't really have to think about. Using the dodgy 'site:' operator on Google, site:daft.ie has about 11.8 million results. Donedeal has about 2.8 million. Boards.ie has 5.4 million. Carzone.ie has 1.94 million. Depending on what is running on the site (Adsense, Google Analytics etc), there can be three page loads (or more) from search engines for each human user page load.
    This guy doesn't want to hear complicated jargon....anything else is yuppy double speak.
    It really isn't yuppy doublespeak. Most of the suggestions have been to develop a business plan, do some research into the market and perhaps build a proof of concept model.

    This is a very valuable exercise because not only will it provide an indication of the size and profitability of the market, it will also allow the problem to be quantified. That's one of the most important aspects of building a large website for the developer (and perhaps the owner): defining the numbers of users, the size of the site and the complexity of the site.

    Regards...jmcc


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    #44
    jmcc
    Registered Users Posts: 7,412 ✭✭✭jmcc


    Peterdalkey wrote: »
    Hey Lads
    It is sad to see the direction this thread is taking, it is not good to see some of our more expert posters throwing rocks.
    The problem is that it is easy to build such a site on a small scale that is capable of handling one or two simultaneous users. However when traffic increases after a successful marketing campaign, the shortcomings of that small scale design become apparent and the server crashes. The business then has a bigger problem on its hands - it has lost credibility and has given its better designed opponents the customers that couldn't get through. And those customers might not come back. It can be better, and cheaper in the long run, to get the design right from the start.

    These two threads are worth reading. They are by the guy who built the Plenty of Fish website. They provide some insight for the development/early stage of such a site.

    How he cleared $1 million in three months.
    http://www.webmasterworld.com/forum89/13958.htm

    The technical side:
    http://www.webmasterworld.com/forum23/4496.htm

    Technically, some things have changed since then but they are very good examples of what can be done.

    Regards...jmcc


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    #45
    jmcc
    Registered Users Posts: 7,412 ✭✭✭jmcc


    EIREHotspur wrote: »
    Get the database design right starting off and it scales easily going forward.
    Ordinarily, I would agree. This is very difficult to do without knowing the size of the site and the types and numbers of queries that will be run against the database each second. That's why it is important to do the business plan and specification work first.

    Regards...jmcc


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    #46
    EIREHotspur
    Registered Users Posts: 767 ✭✭✭EIREHotspur


    Of course it is against boards.ie policy to attack anyone or their point of view on here so I won't.

    I doubt very much that the people at donedeal.ie care about server problems...they admin their websites and they pay their Hosting company for that....??
    They tell them in laymans terms what they want and if they can handle X amount of visitors going forward.

    I don't hand over a DVD to a client and start going into how I opened the video clips and converted them to .mxf files to bring into Adobe Premiere where I could colour correct them with Magic Bullet Looks and then link effects to them from After Effects......etc etc etc...
    That to me is fascinating and interesting.....to a client it is high faluting nonsense and they are not interested.
    People who want Websites cannot understand Web Developer speak...they are just not interested.....that's the fact of the matter.

    The colton website filters queries from the carzone database based on their own stock....and the point being it is just a website with a large database running on an expensive Hosting package.

    The size and type of the database starting off is determined by the Developer starting off...that's his job to determine....that's what he is getting paid to do. Anyone who has only done MTA Database Administrator Fundamentals will know that.

    Listen...At the end of the day everyone is going to believe what they want to believe....more power to you.


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    #47
    Buttercake
    Registered Users Posts: 539 ✭✭✭Buttercake


    People who want Websites cannot understand Web Developer speak...they are just not interested.....that's the fact of the matter.

    A project of the scale like what the OP wants to do, he should be engaging a website development company who will have developers, designers but also an account manager or project manager who will liaise with the client in "non developer speak" and manage the project from start to finish.

    Professional Web Developers no more want to deal direct with clients than clients deal with them, that why a web agency or company will have client managers.

    If he wants to save money and hire Billy HTML from 1998, thats up to him.


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    #48
    jmcc
    Registered Users Posts: 7,412 ✭✭✭jmcc


    EIREHotspur wrote: »
    Of course it is against boards.ie policy to attack anyone or their point of view on here so I won't.
    I know I left my Filofax around here somewhere. :)
    I doubt very much that the people at donedeal.ie care about server problems...they admin their websites and they pay their Hosting company for that....??
    They tell them in laymans terms what they want and if they can handle X amount of visitors going forward.
    Perhaps that's how it works with small scale websites but things are different when there is serious money at stake. The people running such a site might not need to be able to code or know SQL but they do generally have a working knowledge of what is required to make such a site function. They also tend to measure things. They need to know how they are making money, where they are making money and what needs to be done to continue making money.
    I don't hand over a DVD to a client and start going into how I opened the video clips and converted them to .mxf files to bring into Adobe Premiere where I could colour correct them with Magic Bullet Looks and then link effects to them from After Effects......etc etc etc...
    That to me is fascinating and interesting.....to a client it is high faluting nonsense and they are not interested.
    This is the danger of extrapolating Multimedia expertise to running large, money making websites. With large websites, the management needs to understand how they are making money and the processes by which they make money. While the core idea behind a site might be non-technical, the site itself is an exercise in technology, software and business management. Perhaps, to labour the Multimedia point, it is the difference between producing a DVD for a client and producing a blockbuster movie. One is something that only a few people see, but the other is for a wider audience.
    People who want Websites cannot understand Web Developer speak...they are just not interested.....that's the fact of the matter.
    It is like you are confusing brochureware, cookiecutter websites which are rarely updated over a year with large scale, continually changing websites like Daft.ie and Donedeal.ie which consist primarily of user generated content. The clients are not idiots and should not be treated as such. With a large scale website, the developers generally have to be able to explain, in simplified terms, how it all works and why certain requirements apply. The clients also need to have some understanding of what is involved and have to be able to figure out if they can earn their money back on the investment and make a profit. The software, the technology and the business side of things all have to work together. Now that might sound like yuppy doublespeak but it is the reality of all technological companies.
    The size and type of the database starting off is determined by the Developer starting off...that's his job to determine....that's what he is getting paid to do. Anyone who has only done MTA Database Administrator Fundamentals will know that.
    I had to Google what "MTA Database Administrator Fundamentals". It apparently is "MTA Database Administration Fundamentals" from Microsoft - an introduction to databases from Microsoft using Microsoft SQL Server. The problem with thinking that it is just the "developer" specifying the requirements for the database and letting everything run away from there is this: the database is only part of the site. It all has to work together (the database, the website and the rest) and more than one person has to be able to use the database at a time. Sometimes, the early iteration of the database design (schema) will have to be changed because it may not scale well. A database table with a few hundred rows of data might work well with certain queries but when you get to thousands or millions of rows of data other constraints kick in and you can spend more time simplifying queries to the database as well as figuring out how to make the database more responsive. But that's what people don't see with large websites. They only thing that they should see is that the site provides what they want and quickly. That's where all the other work enters the equation.

    Regards...jmcc


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    #49
    EIREHotspur
    Registered Users Posts: 767 ✭✭✭EIREHotspur


    jmcc wrote: »
    I know I left my Filofax around here somewhere. :)

    Perhaps that's how it works with small scale websites but things are different when there is serious money at stake. The people running such a site might not need to be able to code or know SQL but they do generally have a working knowledge of what is required to make such a site function. They also tend to measure things. They need to know how they are making money, where they are making money and what needs to be done to continue making money.
    Well which are you talking about....Developers who have built and maintain, add features to the website....or users who add content such as cars, houses or products to these websites?
    One is paid to know this stuff and the other just adds content...where is the need of the user to know the Developers job?
    jmcc wrote: »
    This is the danger of extrapolating Multimedia expertise to running large, money making websites. With large websites, the management needs to understand how they are making money and the processes by which they make money. While the core idea behind a site might be non-technical, the site itself is an exercise in technology, software and business management.
    Management know they are making money by their profit/loss sheet or stats they are given as to how many cars, houses or products were sold on their website. They either have Web Developers in house on the payroll or outsourced to another company.
    They pay Developers to know the Technology, software and advise them as to how that helps them maximise profits based on features or workflow.
    jmcc wrote: »
    It is like you are confusing brochureware, cookiecutter websites which are rarely updated over a year with large scale, continually changing websites like Daft.ie and Donedeal.ie which consist primarily of user generated content. The clients are not idiots and should not be treated as such. With a large scale website, the developers generally have to be able to explain, in simplified terms, how it all works and why certain requirements apply. The clients also need to have some understanding of what is involved and have to be able to figure out if they can earn their money back on the investment and make a profit. The software, the technology and the business side of things all have to work together. Now that might sound like yuppy doublespeak but it is the reality of all technological companies.
    My Dear chap I have been developing websites for over 10 years...I don't confuse brochure (or graveyard websites as I call them) with serious Dynamic Websites. Clients are not idiots...which is why it makes them uncomfortable to be made feel like idiots if you talk in terms that they don't understand...that's my experience...maybe it is different in the people you deal with.
    jmcc wrote: »
    I had to Google what "MTA Database Administrator Fundamentals". It apparently is "MTA Database Administration Fundamentals" from Microsoft - an introduction to databases from Microsoft using Microsoft SQL Server. The problem with thinking that it is just the "developer" specifying the requirements for the database and letting everything run away from there is this: the database is only part of the site. It all has to work together (the database, the website and the rest) and more than one person has to be able to use the database at a time. Sometimes, the early iteration of the database design (schema) will have to be changed because it may not scale well. A database table with a few hundred rows of data might work well with certain queries but when you get to thousands or millions of rows of data other constraints kick in and you can spend more time simplifying queries to the database as well as figuring out how to make the database more responsive. But that's what people don't see with large websites. They only thing that they should see is that the site provides what they want and quickly. That's where all the other work enters the equation.
    Like I said...I know how the structure of a large database needs to be right starting off because data redundancy is not desirable and it is difficult to change this later on. It is more about optimizing your SQL queries so that multiple users aren't accessing simultaneously but these big websites have a great budget behind them and sometimes have multiple servers handling the load.
    Websites like Carzone.ie have not changed that much in years because database info is pretty much the same - make, year, milage etc

    Look I know you know your stuff jmcc...I know my stuff although maybe not as much as you in web development because I do many other things besides that.

    My whole point is Business people hire Web Developers for a reason.


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    #50
    Peterdalkey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,091 ✭✭✭Peterdalkey


    It is interesting that Carzone and the UK Autotrader have the same owner, as a petrolhead I use both. I find the UK site is infinitely superior in layout and features to the Irish offering. I wonder why? More competition in the UK?


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    #51
    jmcc
    Registered Users Posts: 7,412 ✭✭✭jmcc


    EIREHotspur wrote: »
    Well which are you talking about....Developers who have built and maintain, add features to the website....or users who add content such as cars, houses or products to these websites?
    One is paid to know this stuff and the other just adds content...where is the need of the user to know the Developers job?
    The people on the development side and the people on the management side. Not the end users. The management has to be able to describe what it wants to do and the developers have to be able to do it or explain why it is not a good idea.

    Management know they are making money by their profit/loss sheet or stats they are given as to how many cars, houses or products were sold on their website. They either have Web Developers in house on the payroll or outsourced to another company.
    And that is one of the landmines for such a venture. If the design isn't well done at the start, then fixing the problems later could sink the company. It really gets back to doing the business plan and the research into the market first and then proceeding with the web development.
    Like I said...I know how the structure of a large database needs to be right starting off because data redundancy is not desirable and it is difficult to change this later on.
    The only certainty seems to be that the database schema will evolve. The problem with dealing with a poorly documented initial design at some time in the future is that you have to figure out what the developer was trying to do and how they were doing it. That's one of the major issues with outsourced development.
    It is more about optimizing your SQL queries so that multiple users aren't accessing simultaneously but these big websites have a great budget behind them and sometimes have multiple servers handling the load.
    That was one of the biggest problems of the last fifteen or so years - the idea that software problems could be solved by throwing hardware resources at them. (That Plenty of Fish technical thread is worth reading as it shows how someone technicallly clueful can use a more elegant approach to achieve the same results as large companies thowing loads of hardware and software at the same problem.) Some large websites don't have great budgets for software and hardware and try to grow naturally by sinking the profits back into the business.
    Websites like Carzone.ie have not changed that much in years because database info is pretty much the same - make, year, milage etc
    People generally only see the end results on screen but not the database schema and queries. They don't know if the schema has changed.
    My whole point is Business people hire Web Developers for a reason.
    I'm not disagreeing with that point. The point I was making was that the people who want to build and run large sites as a business have to have a working knowledge of what they want to achieve and be able to tell the developers what they want. (This gets back to the business plan and market research.) It does require some learning as well as investment. If you look at the people who developed some of the large and successful sites, they all seem to have a clear idea of what they want to achieve and at least a working knowledge of what is required to achieve it. I'm sure you've had people who have seen eBay, Groupon or Netflix and have approached you to see if you can build something similar.

    Regards...jmcc


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    #52
    jmcc
    Registered Users Posts: 7,412 ✭✭✭jmcc


    Peterdalkey wrote: »
    It is interesting that Carzone and the UK Autotrader have the same owner, as a petrolhead I use both. I find the UK site is infinitely superior in layout and features to the Irish offering. I wonder why? More competition in the UK?
    Competition and market size?

    Regards...jmcc


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    #53
    Peterdalkey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,091 ✭✭✭Peterdalkey


    jmcc wrote: »
    Competition and market size?

    Regards...jmcc

    I had forgotten there is also autrotrader.ie which is also inferior to the UK version!


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    #54
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Peterdalkey wrote: »
    It is interesting that Carzone and the UK Autotrader have the same owner, as a petrolhead I use both. I find the UK site is infinitely superior in layout and features to the Irish offering. I wonder why? More competition in the UK?

    As you say, due to the demand the UK one is probably better resourced. The squeaky wheel and all that.


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    #55
    Axwell
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 10,462 Mod ✭✭✭✭Axwell


    Mod Note:

    This thread has been completely derailed from the OP's topic. Discussion is all well and good but its serving no help to the OP and what they wanted to know so can we get back on track. Chances are they stopped reading once it strayed off from what they asked and became of no use.

    OP if you are still around or checking in then I suggest you look at the following two threads and post a relevant post in each. You posted a few months back looking for a business partner and about your business experience so I am sure you have plenty of knowledge in other aspects and just need to find the right person or people to work with.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056283992

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055838808


    To those interested in continuing a discussion about Web Design/Development etc

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057001260


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    #56
    jmcc
    Registered Users Posts: 7,412 ✭✭✭jmcc


    Perhaps a sticky post with the general title "So you want to build an eBay/Groupon/Daft/Donedeal" and some helpful pointers about what such sites involved from a business and technological viewpoint could be useful. It might reduce the probability of such threads appearing in the E&BM forum every few months.

    Regards...jmcc


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    #57
    Axwell
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 10,462 Mod ✭✭✭✭Axwell


    We have a general rule on boards to try limit the number of stickies where possible and there is already one there about web design. Feel free to pm me though with a paragraph or some bullet points referring to development specifically for those type of sites and I will go over it and can add it to that sticky that's there already.

    Cheers


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