Dating Agencies

LordNorbury

Emme wrote: »

He said that he never had such a variety of women to choose from as he did when he started internet dating.

This is the truth, however if you are looking for more than a few dates and some fairly casual sex, then I reckon you are in for a serious disappointment with online dating these days. Within the last year in particular, I've noticed a big change in it, maybe this is why dating agencies are marketing aggressively on the radio lately, in that they are trying to draw in people who have tried the online dating thing and have worked out that it isn't really about finding a relationship at all.

Before I'd go near a dating agency I'd try some group based activities, there is an app I downloaded recently called 'MeetMe', for people who are single, (or not single), where they can connect with other people who are into common activities, such as hiking or book clubs or just going for drinks or whatever. I haven't tried it yet but might give it a shot in the new year as I've had my fill of online dating and defo won't be going near a dating agency.

NI24

Just going to echo what Emme has said. If you're a man and you're not married you have a pretty good success rate of getting dates. If you're a woman and below average looking and/or over the age of 40, dating agencies are a waste of time and money. I know women who have been on dating sites for almost ten(!) years and have never gotten an offer. One friend in particular has slowly sunk into a depression over it. She has not been in a relationship in over 13 years.

LordNorbury

NI24 wrote: »

Just going to echo what Emme has said. If you're a man and you're not married you have a pretty good success rate of getting dates. If you're a woman and below average looking and/or over the age of 40, dating agencies are a waste of time and money. I know women who have been on dating sites for almost ten(!) years and have never gotten an offer. One friend in particular has slowly sunk into a depression over it. She has not been in a relationship in over 13 years.

I have a female friend who has fallen into the very same place, she is 40, has never had a serious relationship, has put herself very firmly into the 'crazy cat lady' box, particularly within the last year. I think when you start to perceive yourself as 'crazy cat lady', it can become a self fulfilling prophecy. Your whole approach to dating can change & your attitude to going on dates can turn negative, then the dates you do go on, 'crazy cat lady' gets mentioned and the guy generally runs a mile.

anewme

LordNorbury wrote: »

I have a female friend who has fallen into the very same place, she is 40, has never had a serious relationship, has put herself very firmly into the 'crazy cat lady' box, particularly within the last year. I think when you start to perceive yourself as 'crazy cat lady', it can become a self fulfilling prophecy. Your whole approach to dating can change & your attitude to going on dates can turn negative, then the dates you do go on, 'crazy cat lady' gets mentioned and the guy generally runs a mile.

This!

Anyone calls me a crazy cat lady will get walloped in the face with a cold cod.

I have to say there is a fair bit of negativity on this thread! Be gone!

For me, new to this and all - it aint over till the (cat) lady sings!

LordNorbury

anewme wrote: »

This!

Anyone calls me a crazy cat lady will get walloped in the face with a cold cod.

I have to say there is a fair bit of negativity on this thread! Be gone!

For me, new to this and all - it aint over till the (cat) lady sings!

I wouldn't call it negativity, more a sobering reality! You are new to it so are obviously full of enthusiasm, but it genuinely isn't easy to find something credible in these times we are living in. It's all ahead of ya in 2015!

panda100

Why on earth would you use a dating agency when you have free dating websites? I've been on okcupid and pof for the last year and have met some lovely guys. I'm 32 and there are loads of men on it in their 30's and 40's who are interested in having relationships. I would really recommend both if those sites, okcupid more as it matches you quite well with people.

Emme

panda100 wrote: »

Why on earth would you use a dating agency when you have free dating websites? I've been on okcupid and pof for the last year and have met some lovely guys. I'm 32 and there are loads of men on it in their 30's and 40's who are interested in having relationships. I would really recommend both if those sites, okcupid more as it matches you quite well with people.

With respect, you are a 32 year old woman and your experience is not relevant to that of a woman of 40 or more.

There are plenty of men on dating sites in their 30s and 40s who are interested in having a relationship with you, a 32 year old woman. I advise you to make the most of it and if you want to settle down choose somebody fairly soon. If you wait until you are 35 things will get more difficult and after 40 things get very bleak indeed.

apieceofcake

Dating is down to many things, luck is just one of them. Why would anybody write themselves off, you could meet someone at any time.all this talk about 'your life is over, dating-wise,when u hit forty is absolute rubbish! I can't be the only one that finds Lord Norbury and Emma so negative, can I??!

apieceofcake

#Emme

LordNorbury

apieceofcake wrote: »

Dating is down to many things, luck is just one of them. Why would anybody write themselves off, you could meet someone at any time.all this talk about 'your life is over, dating-wise,when u hit forty is absolute rubbish! I can't be the only one that finds Lord Norbury and Emma so negative, can I??!

I can't speak for Emme but I've been on a lot of dates over the last few years so I can speak from experience when I say it is not easy to find a serious relationship these days. Even the poster on the last page who was brimming with enthusiasm about all the nice men she has met online dating and all the rest of it, despite the abundance of choice she describes, guess what, she's still single!

For a huge variety of reasons, people are a lot more fussy these days and they are more reluctant to get into a relationship unless a lot of boxes are strongly ticked. That doesn't make people who describe their personal real world experiences on the thread, incessantly negative, humans are complex beings and no moreso than when it comes to romance & so much choice these days & very different social norms & moral boundaries, which online dating has enabled, just adds layers of complexity to what was previously a simple enough task (finding a relationship) for previous generations, living in very different times.

Wibbs

Emme wrote: »

With respect, you are a 32 year old woman and your experience is not relevant to that of a woman of 40 or more.

+1000, especially on dating sites/online. As a 32 year old woman P you're very much still in the Zone(tm). A very different thing to the zone a 42 year old woman is dealing with. Again especially online. The online world is very visual and as LordN says box ticking. It's also very much down to an age/gender demographic and a 32 year old woman like yourself P is like I said still in that zone. You're still the "prize" as it were, but statistically speaking not for that long. As Emme notes, come back if you're single at 42 and see the difference.

Put it another way; of the guys of around my age(late 40's) who aren't already married/loved up, all but one are with women under 40, two are with women under 30*, and with the exception of two, none of these lads are exactly rich and/or handsome.

That's the online world though and a very different world it is. The very nature of its box ticking means that people apply way more filters than they would, or could in real life. It's also more fantastical and can play into people's ideas that they have more choice than they actually have. After all they have a menu, so they figure they can "order" whatever they want on said menu. This plays to different people and genders depending. So for example; an average looking 25 year old man has far less of a catchment than an average looking 25 year old woman, whereas at 35 that can often be reversed. At 45 it's damn near a polar opposite. It's very much a market led, almost consumerist subculture going on. Speaking as an outsider, I'd say it's even more of a cattle market than a nightclub setting.

I have to say I really admire folks who go down the online dating route. It takes some spine to do so I reckon. Where a barely thought nonchalant "swipe", often from a gobshíte, man or woman, can mean a yay or nay. I say that as an uggo who well knows I'd get nada on POF. I can live with that. Like I say, the real world is very different.






*though just speaking for myself I don't get the under 30 vibe at my age *grandpa Simpson voice*. Fair play if it works for them, but I can't see it. And I say that as someone who would prefer an age gap. Cultural gap an added bonus. For me it means so many more viewpoints on life and approaches to life and IMHO can make for a more vibrant relationship(if the man and it's nearly always the man isn't an "old fart". IMH women mentally and emotionally age much better). My idea of purgatory would be a partner who was the same as me. I'd find that the opposite of comforting TBH. OK yea I'm weird, but there it is. Probably a learned thing too though, as the men in my extended family tend to end up with age gaps and/or foreign women. EG my da was 51 when I was born.

Wibbs

apieceofcake wrote: »

Dating is down to many things, luck is just one of them. Why would anybody write themselves off, you could meet someone at any time.all this talk about 'your life is over, dating-wise,when u hit forty is absolute rubbish! I can't be the only one that finds Lord Norbury and Emma so negative, can I??!

I agree APOC, but like I said the online world is near pure sexual/relationship capitalism at its worst. Great if you're one of the elite in age/gender/looks/status demographics, but not so great if you're not and yet you could still be and most likely are one helluva "catch" for the right person. Like I said I admire those who dive into that milieu.

NI24

LordNorbury wrote: »

I have a female friend who has fallen into the very same place, she is 40, has never had a serious relationship, has put herself very firmly into the 'crazy cat lady' box, particularly within the last year. I think when you start to perceive yourself as 'crazy cat lady', it can become a self fulfilling prophecy. Your whole approach to dating can change & your attitude to going on dates can turn negative, then the dates you do go on, 'crazy cat lady' gets mentioned and the guy generally runs a mile.

She hasn't put herself into the "crazy cat lady" box; men have, and she's following suit.

LordNorbury wrote: »

I wouldn't call it negativity, more a sobering reality! You are new to it so are obviously full of enthusiasm, but it genuinely isn't easy to find something credible in these times we are living in. It's all ahead of ya in 2015!

It's only a sobering reality for women. For men the options are nearly endless.

DoYouEvenLift

NI24 wrote: »

She hasn't put herself into the "crazy cat lady" box; men have, and she's following suit.



It's only a sobering reality for women. For men the options are nearly endless.

The tables kind of flip in favour of men then compared to when they were younger and that's how it was for women. For both I'd still argue that options are only seemingly endless for the top tier/elites.

NI24

DoYouEvenLift wrote: »

The tables kind of flip in favour of men then compared to when they were younger and that's how it was for women. For both I'd still argue that options are only seemingly endless for the top tier/elites.

Except that men's options remain stable until death (with perhaps a slight downgrade), while women's disappears. Or put this way: women have about two decades of their adult life to find someone. Men have about four decades.

panda100

NI24 wrote: »

Except that men's options remain stable until death (with perhaps a slight downgrade), while women's disappears. Or put this way: women have about two decades of their adult life to find someone. Men have about four decades.

I think that way of thinking is archaic and my inner feminist is cringing at that post. Obviously if your an individual who wants children then it's different but love and companionship have no age limit in either of the sexes. To say that women are only desirable as a partner for two decades is absolutely insulting and completely untrue. Unfortunately the patriarchal world we live in has given rise to these sexist beliefs

Wibbs

Forget feminism and patriarchy and all that, the notion that "men's options remain stable until death" is a self delusional nonsense. Sure, the deluded can point to rock stars and film stars and say "look, he's still got options". Eh, yea, he's a feckin famous dude, with good looks, talent and cash. It's akin to bald men pointing to Sean Connery to make themselves feel better about their hair falling out, but they ain't Sean Connery.

For the vast majority of men over 40(and often younger) they become more and more invisible to younger women as the years pass. Over 50 and it's mostly game over. Yes, men do have longer "in the game" than women, certainly when it comes to starting a family and yes, exceptional men can extend that further, but for the average man on the street, he has an extra ten years to play with. Tops. No way in hell does he have forty years or anything like it.

I'll bet the farm that the stats on dating sites would show this too. With women of say 25 getting more attention than women of 35, with that attention peak reversing in men.

panda100 wrote:

To say that women are only desirable as a partner for two decades is absolutely insulting and completely untrue.

Indeed and cold hard evolutionary biology backs it to the hilt. Very few animals have a menopause. In the vast majority of species out there both male and female remain fertile throughout life. Which makes sense as an infertile animal no longer has options to pass on the genes and all that. Humans are different. We positively selected to support women who were no longer fertile because they were extremely valuable to the group. If they hadn't been so valuable the human menopause would have rapidly evolved out/wouldn't have happened in the first place.

NI24

Wibbs wrote: »

Slightly less invisible to younger women maybe, but they still have a choice to date both women their own age and younger (and even older if they so desire. They do not). The same cannot be said for women and the advice on this thread proves it. If you're a woman and you want to try any kind of dating, not just online, you have to a) date older men (often decades) and b) not be "picky" (have any kind of standards). The problem with option A is that the older you get, the more people pass away. Look at old folks' homes for instance. Most in there are women and ALOT have spent several years alone (and not to repeat myself but often decades alone). The only men over the age of 30 who have trouble attracting women are men with serious personality problems or rap sheets (the two go hand in hand obviously). And if women are so valuable even after menopause, then why can't women of that age find a partner? There are far far more single women at that age than men. I can honestly say that in my small American town, I know not one bachelor over the age of 40 who does not have a choice to change his single status. I can name four women in my social circle alone who have not dated in years. These would be women of various numbers on the Looks Scale and all are financially independent. In fact, my own mother would be one (going on 15 years ((and she's dated grown men who live with their parents!)) ).

The Corinthian

Wibbs wrote: »

For the vast majority of men over 40(and often younger) they become more and more invisible to younger women as the years pass. Over 50 and it's mostly game over. Yes, men do have longer "in the game" than women, certainly when it comes to starting a family and yes, exceptional men can extend that further, but for the average man on the street, he has an extra ten years to play with. Tops. No way in hell does he have forty years or anything like it.

Very true. Your average man probably has a realistic extra ten years at most. If you have good looks, wealth, charm, are good in bed or the like, you can stretch it out, but frankly so can a woman under such circumstances.

After that, if a woman was looking to settle down and start a family, she'd have to be pretty desperate to choose an average man over fifty; biologically he can produce kids, but will he be able to pick them up?

I would however add the caveat is age disparages appear to be largely cultural. The more patriarchal the culture, the younger the woman. But Ireland is not; if you think it is, I suggest you spend a little time in Russia.

I'll bet the farm that the stats on dating sites would show this too.

As I posted earlier, they do.

The Corinthian

NI24 wrote: »

I can honestly say that in my small American town, I know not one bachelor over the age of 40 who does not have a choice to change his single status.

But is that due only to age or another dynamic?

One thing I realized, over the years, is that women are the gatekeepers to sex, men are the gatekeepers to relationships. Those bachelors over the age of 40 always could change their single status in many respects, just the attraction of a relationship is something that not everyone is interested in until older and sex becomes easier to get also as you get older. So age is a factor, but it also comes down to gender dynamics that favour women when younger and men when older.

NI24

The Corinthian wrote: »

Very true. Your average man probably has a realistic extra ten years at most. If you have good looks, wealth, charm, are good in bed or the like, you can stretch it out, but frankly so can a woman under such circumstances.

After that, if a woman was looking to settle down and start a family, she'd have to be pretty desperate to choose an average man over fifty; biologically he can produce kids, but will he be able to pick them up?

I would however add the caveat is age disparages appear to be largely cultural. The more patriarchal the culture, the younger the woman. But Ireland is not; if you think it is, I suggest you spend a little time in Russia.

As I posted earlier, they do.

I'm not even talking about starting a family, I'm talking about finding a partner. And just because things are harder in Russia or any other country outside of the Western world does not mean that the dating stakes are equitable.

And I still contend that if they wanted to, men could change the online dating stats in their favor. Women have no such option. If they are physically unattractive or relatively older, they're SOL.

The Corinthian

NI24 wrote: »

I'm not even talking about starting a family, I'm talking about finding a partner. And just because things are harder in Russia or any other country outside of the Western world does not mean that the dating stakes are equitable.

I never said it was equitable, I just disagree that it's hopeless.

Even if there is a tendency for older men to end up with younger women, this does not mean that all men end up with, or even seek, a younger woman. Over forty, men again become the majority on such sites, and while we can ride the wave of desperate thirtysomethings for a few years, this runs out by the time we reach our late forties / early fifties.

The men are there; only that they might be a bit older that the women. So is this a discussion about how older women have no chance of finding a man, or no chance of finding a younger man?

And I still contend that if they wanted to, men could change the online dating stats in their favor. Women have no such option. If they are physically unattractive or relatively older, they're SOL.

Sure, just like women could choose not to skew the odds against themselves in their thirties? And the Israelis and Palestinians could choose to change how they relate to each other and make peace too.

Given neither is realistically going to happen, do men really have such a choice?

Wibbs

NI24 wrote: »

Slightly less invisible to younger women maybe, but they still have a choice to date both women their own age and younger (and even older if they so desire. They do not).

Vanishingly few men of say 45 will be visible to the vast majority of 25 year old women(who don't have some sort of an Electra complex vibe goin on). Even if they are visible, it'll be a "fling with an old guy" more often than not. I would agree that he'll cast a much wider net than if he were a woman of that age, but that net tightens with every passing year at 55 it's much narrower and that's for a guy in good condition etc.

And if women are so valuable even after menopause, then why can't women of that age find a partner? There are far far more single women at that age than men. I can honestly say that in my small American town, I know not one bachelor over the age of 40 who does not have a choice to change his single status. I can name four women in my social circle alone who have not dated in years. These would be women of various numbers on the Looks Scale and all are financially independent. In fact, my own mother would be one (going on 15 years ((and she's dated grown men who live with their parents!)) ).

The western move to the more isolated nuclear family explains a lot of it. The US would be very much at the extreme of that. So if and when such a setup fails due to divorce there is a lot of social isolation going on. In both genders, though yes men will have more leeway. Often in purely practical terms. EG if he has children, but the ex wife has custody(the majority of cases), he has simply got more time and freedom to offer a potential partner and more time and freedom to seek out such a partner. In other more traditional cultures older women are much more valued and more socially involved too, so isolation is much less an issue.

The Corinthian wrote:

After that, if a woman was looking to settle down and start a family, she'd have to be pretty desperate to choose an average man over fifty; biologically he can produce kids, but will he be able to pick them up?

To be fair TC a guy would want to be pretty wrecked by life not to able to pick his kids at 50, or more. Sleepless nights? Maybe it's just me, but I need far less sleep the older I get than I needed when younger. It so depends on the individual. Then again, as I said I grew up with that kind of scenario and didn't notice any differences between my situation and that of my peers, whose dads would have been around 20 years younger than my own. Plus I've known a fair few married folks who had a "late child", where the woman was in her 40's and the guy was in his 50's and they handled it fine. Now if we were talking about 70 year olds, I'd be in full agreement.

I would however add the caveat is age disparages appear to be largely cultural. The more patriarchal the culture, the younger the woman. But Ireland is not; if you think it is, I suggest you spend a little time in Russia.

Yes and no. Certainly with regards to Russia. Big age gaps are unusual enough there too. That's a bit of a fallacy IME. More a fantasy of old guys hoping to get a Russian mail order bride*. Indeed I'd bet that statistically Ireland in the 1950's had some of the highest numbers of big age gaps going on.

In any event, if I was a woman over 40(or an average looking bloke under 30), I'd probably avoid online dating, or look to other more face to face avenues where the idea of box ticking and one dimensional impressions are far less in play.




*I have seen much less of age gap being frowned upon in some far eastern cultures. I'm not talking about your mail order stuff either. I mean well educated women with good careers with guys 10, 15, even 20 years older.

NI24

The Corinthian wrote: »

I never said it was equitable, I just disagree that it's hopeless.

Even if there is a tendency for older men to end up with younger women, this does not mean that all men end up with, or even seek, a younger woman. Over forty, men again become the majority on such sites, and while we can ride the wave of desperate thirtysomethings for a few years, this runs out by the time we reach our late forties / early fifties.

The men are there; only that they might be a bit older that the women. So is this a discussion about how older women have no chance of finding a man, or no chance of finding a younger man?

Sure, just like women could choose not to skew the odds against themselves in their thirties? And the Israelis and Palestinians could choose to change how they relate to each other and make peace too.

Given neither is realistically going to happen, do men really have such a choice?

This is a discussion about online dating and about how women over a certain age have little to no chance of finding men their own age or even older (younger men are out of the question).

How can women skew the odds in their favor? And men realistically can change things. Women cannot because their is no improving looks or getting younger as you get older.

Emme

NI24 wrote: »

And I still contend that if they wanted to, men could change the online dating stats in their favor. Women have no such option. If they are physically unattractive or relatively older, they're SOL.

SOL? What's that in English?

Wibbs

SOL Sh*t Outa Luck. IIRC anyway Emme.

NI24

Wibbs wrote: »

Vanishingly few men of say 45 will be visible to the vast majority of 25 year old women(who don't have some sort of an Electra complex vibe goin on). Even if they are visible, it'll be a "fling with an old guy" more often than not. I would agree that he'll cast a much wider net than if he were a woman of that age, but that net tightens with every passing year at 55 it's much narrower and that's for a guy in good condition etc.

The western move to the more isolated nuclear family explains a lot of it. The US would be very much at the extreme of that. So if and when such a setup fails due to divorce there is a lot of social isolation going on. In both genders, though yes men will have more leeway. Often in purely practical terms. EG if he has children, but the ex wife has custody(the majority of cases), he has simply got more time and freedom to offer a potential partner and more time and freedom to seek out such a partner. In other more traditional cultures older women are much more valued and more socially involved too, so isolation is much less an issue.

Yes and no. Certainly with regards to Russia. Big age gaps are unusual enough there too. That's a bit of a fallacy IME. More a fantasy of old guys hoping to get a Russian mail order bride*. Indeed I'd bet that statistically Ireland in the 1950's had some of the highest numbers of big age gaps going on.

In any event, if I was a woman over 40(or an average looking bloke under 30), I'd probably avoid online dating, or look to other more face to face avenues where the idea of box ticking and one dimensional impressions are far less in play.




*I have seen much less of age gap being frowned upon in some far eastern cultures. I'm not talking about your mail order stuff either. I mean well educated women with good careers with guys 10, 15, even 20 years older.

You once again talk about 25 year old women and 45 year old men, so I assume you're agreeing with me? That is, that men have the options of dating women of all ages and women only have the older man option (which becomes less viable with each passing day), unless they're lucky enough to have been born beautiful and they can maybe attract a man their own age.

And the post about isolation and nuclear family doesn't really apply to finding romantic partners, does it? There's a big difference between a lady feeling wanted and needed by her children or extended family and a lady feeling wanted by the opposite sex.

NI24

Wibbs wrote: »

SOL Sh*t Outa Luck. IIRC anyway Emme.

Yep.

The Corinthian

NI24 wrote: »

How can women skew the odds in their favor?

I don't think there's a single answer, but one thing I've noticed is that people of both genders don't get any more realistic of whom they can attract regardless of their age.

NI24 wrote: »

And men realistically can change things. Women cannot because their is no improving looks or getting younger as you get older.

And men can?

NI24

The Corinthian wrote: »

I don't think there's a single answer, but one thing I've noticed is that people of both genders don't get any more realistic of whom they can attract regardless of their age.

And men can?

I'm looking for any answer as to how a woman can skew the odds in her favor if she is old or physically unattractive (assuming she does all the regular things to make herself look nice).

And a man's looks/age is not detrimental to his finding romance. His personal achievements and personality are; which, for the most part, are controllable.