Son suspended falsely - Extremely angry

Bobby The Builder

Mods, sorry if this is an incorrect forum for this, move if required.

I am not seeking legal advice as such, I just want to know where I stand. I might just accept my son's suspension from school and leave it there and not push my luck.

OK, my son was in computer class in school and the teacher left the room momentarily and said while she was leaving "no talking or walking around", or something like that.

Everyone was working on a task (it involved sing excel for maths). When the teacher left some of the students ran amok and were talking. One of the girls was flicking bits of rubber at his back continuously, she is known in the class for being a bit of a messer. Anyway, after getting about 9 or 10 hits on the back and back of the head he turned around and said stop .. at that instant the teacher walked back in and accused him of talking.

She assigned him lunch time detention and wants an apology from him for disobeying teachers orders despite him saying what had happened and showing the teacher the eraser segments on the ground.

He is refusing to apologise and accept his lunch time detention which is supposed to take place next week and because of this, the teacher and principal are threatening to escalate this to suspension. Even though he has the back up of a few of his class mates.

He is one of the less popular kids and the messer girl is more popular so people are sticking up for her even though she was in the wrong.

Any advice on where I would stand would be greatly appreciated. Thanks folks.

GerardKeating

Bobby The Builder wrote: »

Mods, sorry if this is an incorrect forum for this, move if required.

I am not seeking legal advice as such, I just want to know where I stand. I might just accept my son's suspension from school and leave it there and not push my luck.

OK, my son was in computer class in school and the teacher left the room momentarily and said while she was leaving "no talking or walking around", or something like that.

Everyone was working on a task (it involved sing excel for maths). When the teacher left some of the students ran amok and were talking. One of the girls was flicking bits of rubber at his back continuously, she is known in the class for being a bit of a messer. Anyway, after getting about 9 or 10 hits on the back and back of the head he turned around and said stop .. at that instant the teacher walked back in and accused him of talking.

She assigned him lunch time detention and wants an apology from him for disobeying teachers orders despite him saying what had happened and showing the teacher the eraser segments on the ground.

He is refusing to apologise and accept his lunch time detention which is supposed to take place next week and because of this, the teacher and principal are threatening to escalate this to suspension. Even though he has the back up of a few of his class mates.

He is one of the less popular kids and the messer girl is more popular so people are sticking up for her even though she was in the wrong.

Any advice on where I would stand would be greatly appreciated. Thanks folks.

But (as you said) he did talk...

hullaballoo

Schools are quite literally a law unto themselves in most cases.

It's unfair that your son was caught out when the teacher walked back in but he was caught doing something he'd been told not to. Refusing to accept the punishment in this case is effectively refusing to acknowledge the school's authority. That being the case, suspension is a fair remedy from the school's perspective.

It's a bit like when you get a parking ticket even though you were only one minute outside the 15 minute grace period. You might feel like you shouldn't have gotten the ticket in the first place but you have to accept that failing to pay the fine will land you in worse trouble/Mountjoy.

Chattastrophe!

You're seriously posting about this in a legal discussion forum? :eek:

Jeez. Your son messed up and was caught, no it wasn't really his fault, and no it's not really fair, but life's not always fair! Use this as a learning experience.

How is he ever going to respect his teachers if you don't?! Dodging the punishment shouldn't even be in question!

If you felt he was being victimised on an ongoing basis, I'd be sympathetic. As it is a once-off, I think you're doing him no favours by trying to avoid punishment in this instance.

seb65

Bobby The Builder wrote: »

Mods, sorry if this is an incorrect forum for this, move if required.

I am not seeking legal advice as such, I just want to know where I stand. I might just accept my son's suspension from school and leave it there and not push my luck.

OK, my son was in computer class in school and the teacher left the room momentarily and said while she was leaving "no talking or walking around", or something like that.

Everyone was working on a task (it involved sing excel for maths). When the teacher left some of the students ran amok and were talking. One of the girls was flicking bits of rubber at his back continuously, she is known in the class for being a bit of a messer. Anyway, after getting about 9 or 10 hits on the back and back of the head he turned around and said stop .. at that instant the teacher walked back in and accused him of talking.

She assigned him lunch time detention and wants an apology from him for disobeying teachers orders despite him saying what had happened and showing the teacher the eraser segments on the ground.

He is refusing to apologise and accept his lunch time detention which is supposed to take place next week and because of this, the teacher and principal are threatening to escalate this to suspension. Even though he has the back up of a few of his class mates.

He is one of the less popular kids and the messer girl is more popular so people are sticking up for her even though she was in the wrong.

Any advice on where I would stand would be greatly appreciated. Thanks folks.

If you want to deal with the situation as a parent, arrange a meeting with yourself, the teacher and the principal. Discuss how the school is allowing your child to be bullied during class time and remind them how serious the issue of bullying has become in Ireland recently. Ask them why they are punishing your child for asking another child to stop bullying him.

Before the meeting ask them for their school policy on bullying, if they provide you with one, pick out the provisions that were broken during the incident. Ask them why they are not following their own policies.

When the meeting is over, if you feel they have not responded to your satisfaction, write a registered letter to the principal outlining the incident and: why you believe your child was mistreated; how the child was bullied on school grounds during class time; and how the school not only failed to act, but punished your child for trying to stop the behaviour, in a non-violent way.

seb65

Chattastrophe! wrote: »

You're seriously posting about this in a legal discussion forum? :eek:

Jeez. Your son messed up and was caught, no it wasn't really his fault, and no it's not really fair, but life's not always fair! Use this as a learning experience.

How is he ever going to respect his teachers if you don't?! Dodging the punishment shouldn't even be in question!

If you felt he was being victimised on an ongoing basis, I'd be sympathetic. As it is a once-off, I think you're doing him no favours by trying to avoid punishment in this instance.

The purpose of punishment is to correct bad behavior, the child was not engaging in bad behavior during this incident. Therefore, there is no rationale for the punishment.

This teacher probably doesn't have the child's respect, for good reason.

Hilly Bill

I think the thread title is misleading seeing that in the opening post it says that the school are threatening the suspension so has the son been suspended or not ? Did the son add anything else to the word Stop or was that just it?
Its sounds a bit OTT on the schools part based on the opening post. It doesn't say a lot for that teacher to be honest.

Rega

seb65 wrote: »

If you want to deal with the situation as a parent, arrange a meeting with yourself, the teacher and the principal. Discuss how the school is allowing your child to be bullied during class time and remind them how serious the issue of bullying has become in Ireland recently. Ask them why they are punishing your child for asking another child to stop bullying him.

Before the meeting ask them for their school policy on bullying, if they provide you with one, pick out the provisions that were broken during the incident. Ask them why they are not following their own policies.

When the meeting is over, if you feel they have not responded to your satisfaction, write a registered letter to the principal outlining the incident and: why you believe your child was mistreated; how the child was bullied on school grounds during class time; and how the school not only failed to act, but punished your child for trying to stop the behaviour, in a non-violent way.

Bullying is repeated and habitual behaviour. The OP doesn't mention this happening before or any history of incidents with the girl in question so I can't see it being classed as bullying. Won't get too far poring over the school's anti bullying policy.

StickyIcky

GerardKeating wrote: »

But (as you said) he did talk...

FYI when you're the very first person to reply to the first post there's no need to quote the first post.

beauf

Hes been suckered into talking. Can't get out of that. Lesson learnt. Maybe strike a deal that the teacher doesn't lose face/authority. Do the detention, but ask in the interest of fairness that the messer is moved to the front of the class, or does detention aswell. Otherwise the lesson here is don't get caught.

hullaballoo

StickyIcky wrote: »

FYI when you're the very first person to reply to the first post there's no need to quote the first post.

Moderator: there is no rule against quoting the OP whether you're the first or last person to post.

Please refrain from backseat moderation in this forum. If you have an issue with a post, please report the post.

seb65

Rega wrote: »

Bullying is repeated and habitual behaviour. The OP doesn't mention this happening before or any history of incidents with the girl in question so I can't see it being classed as bullying. Won't get too far poring over the school's anti bullying policy.

Yes because someone with a reputation for being rowdy just spontaneously throws bits of eraser at someone else's head as a once off.

The_Valeyard

seb65 wrote: »

If you want to deal with the situation as a parent, arrange a meeting with yourself, the teacher and the principal. Discuss how the school is allowing your child to be bullied during class time and remind them how serious the issue of bullying has become in Ireland recently. Ask them why they are punishing your child for asking another child to stop bullying him.

Before the meeting ask them for their school policy on bullying, if they provide you with one, pick out the provisions that were broken during the incident. Ask them why they are not following their own policies.

When the meeting is over, if you feel they have not responded to your satisfaction, write a registered letter to the principal outlining the incident and: why you believe your child was mistreated; how the child was bullied on school grounds during class time; and how the school not only failed to act, but punished your child for trying to stop the behaviour, in a non-violent way.

Seems like throwing a bit of a grenade in there.

Could be an issue with how your son reacted to his detention. Did he verbally abuse the teacher in front of the other students or refuse to retake his seat, disobedience, etc.

Bobby The Builder

seb65 wrote: »

If you want to deal with the situation as a parent, arrange a meeting with yourself, the teacher and the principal. Discuss how the school is allowing your child to be bullied during class time and remind them how serious the issue of bullying has become in Ireland recently. Ask them why they are punishing your child for asking another child to stop bullying him.

I will pop down tomorrow morning as I have a day off work. Perhaps I can see the principal if she has a free few minutes. I'm free all day and we live in the same town as the school.

Chattastrophe! wrote: »

Jeez. Your son messed up and was caught, no it wasn't really his fault, and no it's not really fair, but life's not always fair! Use this as a learning experience.

How is he ever going to respect his teachers if you don't?! Dodging the punishment shouldn't even be in question!

How did my son mess up when he was asking someone to stop harassing him?

I think you should be asking "how is he ever going to respect authority when the person being harassed is punished".

hullaballoo wrote: »

It's a bit like when you get a parking ticket even though you were only one minute outside the 15 minute grace period. You might feel like you shouldn't have gotten the ticket in the first place but you have to accept that failing to pay the fine will land you in worse trouble/Mountjoy.

You can't equate these two. Someone whose parking ticket expired technically is breaking the rules.

My son was merely asking someone else to stop breaking the rules.

GerardKeating wrote: »

But (as you said) he did talk...

So what was he supposed to do? Let her keep flicking rubber segments indefinitely?

Yes, anti-bullying has gone much too far, but so has the power trips of teachers.

sawdoubters

most parents believe the kids,
bring in the kid to the principle and have a talk

I would judge, is the kid at home a saint, does he lie, if he was a very good I would believe the kid, but most parents excuse the kids behavior

you should not fight the kids battles unless you know they are unjust, not just because he told you,

I would say let him take his lunchtime punishment,

The_Valeyard

Bobby The Builder wrote: »

I will pop down tomorrow morning as I have a day off work. Perhaps I can see the principal if she has a free few minutes. I'm free all day and we live in the same town as the school.



How did my son mess up when he was asking someone to stop harassing him?

I think you should be asking "how is he ever going to respect authority when the person being harassed is punished".



You can't equate these two. Someone whose parking ticket expired technically is breaking the rules.

My son was merely asking someone else to stop breaking the rules.



So what was he supposed to do? Let her keep flicking rubber segments indefinitely?

Yes, anti-bullying has gone much too far, but so has the power trips of teachers.

Maybe wait and hear the teachers version of events before you make assume that the teacher is on a power trip.

Bobby The Builder

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Seems like throwing a bit of a grenade in there.

Could be an issue with how your son reacted to his detention. Did he verbally abuse the teacher in front of the other students or refuse to retake his seat, disobedience, etc.

No, he simply stood up for himself politely. He has the backing of his friends as he received it on front of the class. His friend comes to the house often and he confirmed this.

McDook

The things I used to do when I was a young lad and then spin it to my mother my own way. She thought and still does think I was an angel in school. And my mates used to back me up too.
Even now when I tell her the truth she thinks im just winding her up.
My sister was the same too.

The_Valeyard

Bobby The Builder wrote: »

No, he simply stood up for himself politely. He has the backing of his friends as he received it on front of the class. His friend comes to the house often and he confirmed this.

Friends often back up friends. I remember my school days, we stuck together. Just think we need perspective to hear both sides of what happened.

Bepolite

Don't just 'pop in' arrange an appointment.

the_syco

This part rings alarm bells, tbh;

Bobby The Builder wrote: »

He is refusing to apologise and accept his lunch time detention which is supposed to take place next week and because of this, the teacher and principal are threatening to escalate this to suspension. Even though he has the back up of a few of his class mates.

From this, you should ring the principal, and book some time with them, as popping in may get you no time, or even turned away, and ask about your sons general behaviour. Although your son may be your little angel, for a school to go from detention to suspension over such a petty incident, I'm guessing that there may be a long trail of something that led to this?

johnnyskeleton

Not legal advice but personal advice:

Since you're asking this question in the legal discussion forum you are obviously thinking about a potential court case of some kind.

If this is really the type of thing that you would sue over, id seriously recommend talking it through with a friend or relative, just to give you some perspective on how minor an issue this is, vs going to court which is a very serious thing to do.

B_Rabbit

I don't have advice but i wanted to say fair play to your son for sticking to his principles on this one.

GSBellew

seb65 wrote: »

The purpose of punishment is to correct bad behavior, the child was not engaging in bad behavior during this incident. Therefore, there is no rationale for the punishment.

This teacher probably doesn't have the child's respect, for good reason.

There is only one side of the story posted here so these is no way a proper fair and unbiased opinion of the events can be formed.

Detention for talking when told not to seems fair enough, escalating the punishment for attempting to completely undermine the teachers authority also seems fair enough to me.

beauf

B_Rabbit wrote: »

I don't have advice but i wanted to say fair play to your son for sticking to his principles on this one.

Theres an element of that. But the flip side of this is you don't want to burn bridges with teachers and headmasters who you might want to manipulate down the line on some other more important issue. Don't win a battle that causes you to lose the war. He might have been better saying ok. But discussing it in private after class with the teacher.

Bepolite

B_Rabbit wrote: »

I don't have advice but i wanted to say fair play to your son for sticking to his principles on this one.

I have a similar feeling although I do fully believe the Judge Judy quote of "how can you tell a teenager is lying? Their lips move".

That said lets say Johhny is in the right here. Perhaps a lesson in authority figures don't always get it right, bad decisions are made and not to sweat the little things. Alternatively serve out your suspension and understand that taking a stand usually has a cost.

Just ensure any response is a proportionate one.

seb65

GSBellew wrote: »

There is only one side of the story posted here so these is no way a proper fair and unbiased opinion of the events can be formed.

Detention for talking when told not to seems fair enough, escalating the punishment for attempting to completely undermine the teachers authority also seems fair enough to me.

Well, there is no means for us to hear the other. However, the child's reaction seems to be quite strong if his reason for talking was not as presented by the OP.

The detention is for disobeying an order. It was not the child's intention to disobey the order not to talk, he was trying to stop some brat from lodging rubber at his head.

If someone tried to steal your wallet and you tripped him to prevent him from getting away, shall we charge you with assault then?

Bepolite

Ah the analogies have started... How far will they go? :P

Phoebas

The teacher and the principal obviously either don't believe your son's side of the story or don't think it justifies his talking in class. You might ask yourself why this is.

What's the legal angle to this anyway? Are you considering an injunction to prevent them from suspending him or suing for damages or what?

Bepolite

Phoebas wrote: »

The teacher and the principal obviously either don't believe your son's side of the story or don't think it justifies his talking in class. You might ask yourself why this is.

What's the legal angle to this anyway? Are you considering an injunction to prevent them from suspending him or suing for damages or what?

Judicial Review seems the most likely option :P

Sorry I'll stop now...

B_Rabbit

Bepolite wrote: »

I have a similar feeling although I do fully believe the Judge Judy quote of "how can you tell a teenager is lying? Their lips move".

That said lets say Johhny is in the right here. Perhaps a lesson in authority figures don't always get it right, bad decisions are made and not to sweat the little things. Alternatively serve out your suspension and understand that taking a stand usually has a cost.

Just ensure any response is a proportionate one.

There's two possibilities.

1. Johnny's a little prick in school, and he was messing. Teacher is sick of disrespect and so brings up the idea of suspension.
2. Johnny is a normal enough lad, it's one of "those" teachers, and the teacher is in the wrong.

If it's case 2, I'd tell the teacher I'll take the detention if it matters to them that much, but I will not apologise as I was not in the wrong.