Son suspended falsely - Extremely angry

Thargor

I only finished secondary school 7 or 8 years ago but I must be getting old... If Id brought this bullsh1t home to my parents I would have got screamed at by my mother or a smack in the face from my father and both would have made me crawl to the teacher and principle with an apology for disobeying their instructions and an offer to do the detention. Feel sorry for todays teachers if they actually have to enter into debate with the parents and children on every bit of irrelevant crap like this.

Im just laughing at the thought of my parents going online to seek legal advice on what my rights are in this situation, Ireland must have been a more innocent place in the naughties :P

Bobby The Builder

Bobby The Builder wrote: »

Any advice on where I would stand would be greatly appreciated. Thanks folks.

Since you've posted this in a legal discussion forum, I'll presume you mean where do you stand from a legal point of view.

For any sanction short of suspension, you stand nowhere, so to speak. The school has the authority to manage its own standards and code of behaviour and discipline effectively without any statutory legal impediment. Of course, the school could find itself in bother if it commits a civil wrong, but that's not likely to be the case and it's very difficult to prove anyway. The same applies for any suspension that is shorter than 4 weeks (20 school days).

So in those cases, you'd really have to talk to a legal professional about the circumstances for advice.

If a school does suspend your son for a period of 20 days or more, you acquire yourself some rights under statute law. A student in that position (or his/her parents) may appeal such a suspension to the Department of Education and Skills. Do a search on the web for Section 29 of the Education Act, 1998 for more details.

Having said that, it is very doubtful that the circumstances you've described would lead to the school suspending a student for 4 weeks.

I wouldn't pretend for a moment to advise you, and in any case I don't think I can, but if I were in your position I would have my doubts as to whether taking some form of civil legal action would be helpful to my son or to relations between him and the school. I stress that this is personal and "psychological" advice only.

Having said that, if things are serious enough and he is troubled by this, you should be supportive of him. Maybe the best way to do that is to have a discussion with the school about the incident, and explain why it is of such concern to you - while at the same time making it clear that you endorse the school's policies and guidelines on behaviour and expect your son to do the same. In that regard, I'm not sure that an "extremely angry" approach to the school is the best one to take.

More than once over the years, I've had to be supportive of my youngster while at the same time explaining to him that the school gets to make and enforce the rules, even if sometimes the operation of the rules can seem unreasonable. I'd even go so far as to say that when the school has been a bit out of line (which hasn't happened much) my son has learned as much if not more than he has when he's got it in the neck deservedly. In other words, as long as the school's behaviour isn't outrageously unfair, sometimes a teenager can learn a valuable character-forming life lesson from a situation like this.

usersame

Part if going to school in Ireland is being treated unfairly by teachers who over compensate with discipline

Bobby The Builder

I am not considering legal advice, as per the charter (I don't think you can get legal advice here) I just thought it was the most appropriate forum, as AH would be full of sarcastic annoying answers which would p1ss me off even more. I am already seething with anger.

I better pop a chill pill before even phoning the school tomorrow.

Middle Man

GerardKeating wrote: »

But (as you said) he did talk...

What???

The_Valeyard

Bobby The Builder wrote: »

I am not considering legal advice, as per the charter (I don't think you can get legal advice here) I just thought it was the most appropriate forum, as AH would be full of sarcastic annoying answers which would p1ss me off even more. I am already seething with anger.

I better pop a chill pill before even phoning the school tomorrow.

Go in as a raging bull and you will get no-where and come off looking like a complete pr*ck. Just be calm and polite when addressing the situation.

Ironman76

The teacher sounds like a bit of a weapon. I fn hated school because of how you could never reason with teachers over simple things. I remember once I was sent to the principals office for tying my fn shoelace.

If you genuinely feel your son is being honest you should admire his stance on not apologising. Fair play to him.

Ironman76

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Go in as a raging bull and you will get no-where and come off looking like a complete pr*ck. Just be calm and polite when addressing the situation.

Agreed, be the bigger person.

Middle Man

Rega wrote: »

Bullying is repeated and habitual behaviour. The OP doesn't mention this happening before or any history of incidents with the girl in question so I can't see it being classed as bullying. Won't get too far poring over the school's anti bullying policy.

AFAIK, to hit another person is assault! Age might be a factor, but to hit or hurt another person is wrong - simple as!

The_Valeyard

Middle Man wrote: »

AFAIK, to hit another person is assault! Age might be a factor, but to hit or hurt another person is wrong - simple as!

Was there any damage or hurt caused?

Sorry, but that seems like the same excuse to shoot someone who throws popcorn at you in the cinema.

Middle Man

Ironman76 wrote: »

Agreed, be the bigger person.

...and maybe get the son to write a statement on what happened. Then if you're happy with it, use it to back up your concerns when you contact the school.

Bobby The Builder

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Was there any damage or hurt caused?

Sorry, but that seems like the same excuse to shoot someone who throws popcorn at you in the cinema.

What ?? are you actually for real??

OK, shooting a person who throws popcorn at you is an overreaction. My situation is more akin to being booted out of the cinema for disturbing other audience when asking other person to stop throwing popcorn at me while the other person gets away with it.

What an absolutely ridiculous post. (sorry if that counts as back-seat modding).

I am off to kip now, I'll let you all know how things are tomorrow after my son goes to school tomorrow. I will pop into the secretary or principal and arrange an appointment for my son and I to talk with the principal and teacher.

Middle Man

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Was there any damage or hurt caused?

Sorry, but that seems like the same excuse to shoot someone who throws popcorn at you in the cinema.

...well would you like it if someone fired elastic bands at your head???

BTW, I missed the bit about guns - I thought we were talking about seemingly unfair discipline here!

vanessamee

If I honestly came home from school and told my parents that I was disruptive in class for what ever the reason my parents would ave given me a shoe on d arse for giving the teacher reason to give out

finished school ten years ago the times have changed greatly.

Middle Man

Bobby The Builder wrote: »

What ?? are you actually for real??

OK, shooting a person who throws popcorn at you is an overreaction. My situation is more akin to being booted out of the cinema for disturbing other audience when asking other person to stop throwing popcorn at me while the other person gets away with it.

What an absolutely ridiculous post. (sorry if that counts as back-seat modding).

I am off to kip now, I'll let you all know how things are tomorrow after my son goes to school tomorrow. I will pop into the secretary or principal and arrange an appointment for my son and I to talk with the principal and teacher.

Yep, that seems to be the best thing to do...

The_Valeyard

Bobby The Builder wrote: »

What ?? are you actually for real??

OK, shooting a person who throws popcorn at you is an overreaction. My situation is more akin to being booted out of the cinema for disturbing other audience when asking other person to stop throwing popcorn at me while the other person gets away with it.

What an absolutely ridiculous post. (sorry if that counts as back-seat modding).

I am off to kip now, I'll let you all know how things are tomorrow after my son goes to school tomorrow. I will pop into the secretary or principal and arrange an appointment for my son and I to talk with the principal and teacher.

Yes I am for real, we only have one version of these events. We do not know if your son is entirely innocent or was there more to this story. Like the cinema description all we do not know if both parties were disturbing the film or not.
At least you attacked the post not the person, think that's okay.

Middle Man wrote: »

...well would you like it if someone fired elastic bands at your head???

Yes, but I wouldnt go nuclear on it either.

Pat Mustard

OP, I've read your post and see that you are angry.

I think that this problem may be one where a diplomatic solution might be best for all concerned.

In other words, somebody needs to go and talk to the teacher and the principal. If that person if going to be you, don't go into a negotiation angry. You are more likely to say something that you might regret when you are angry. You might want to leave it lie a little while, until you have calmed down (I don't know how angry you are).

As previously pointed out, you should make an appointment rather than just drop in.

If you go and talk to the school authorities and cannot reach an amicable arrangement, and if school authorities suspend your son, maybe then check out other options, at that stage.

Middle Man

vanessamee wrote: »

If I honestly came home from school and told my parents that I was disruptive in class for what ever the reason my parents would ave given me a shoe on d arse for giving the teacher reason to give out

finished school ten years ago the times have changed greatly.

So the girl firing the elastic bands - that's OK and her victim has no right to protest???

Am I missing something???

Middle Man

The_Valeyard wrote: »

<snip>

Yes, but I wouldnt go nuclear on it either.

Well possible suspension for refusing to apologize for protesting against another student who was hitting him isn't OTT???

BQQ

I was in a similar situation when I was in school.
Teacher wouldn't have me back until I apologised. I refused to do it, so I basically had detention for her class.
That was only allowed to continue for a short time as they didn't have anyone willing to supervise me and obviously I was missing a lot of classes in a leaving cert year.

I was told I would be suspended if I didn't apologise.
I got the impression the principal didn't want to do it, but my stubbornness was backing him into a corner.
Some time had passed by then and I had calmed down and I could see that some minor incident was spiralling out of control.
Thing we're getting worse and worse for me, so I had to change my approach.
I gave a mealy mouthed half apology and my problems disappeared.

Painful as it might be, I think your son is going to have to swallow this for his own good. The teacher will not back down or any authority she has will be gone.

McDook

Get your son to take a lie detector test before you do anything.
I guarantee you dont know him as well as you think you do. Such is the life of a parent.

abellew

The amount of times my son has come in telling me he's had dentition and in the next breath is explaining that his friend asked him for a pen and he was just giving it to him. My reply is always the same did the teacher ask you not to talk if the teacher asked him not to speak then he shouldn't have spoken. End of story even if a girl was hitting him with a rubber or whatever it was.
How do we expect teacher to teach if we argue with there decision every step of the way and how do we expect our kids to respect teachers if we undermine their decisions
You weren't in the class room and i can tell you now after 5 years of having a teenager in secondary school they aren't as snow white as you think and no matter what you have been told its quite likely that your son may have omitted certain details to make him look better.

I thought that parents are contacted by the school before a child is suspended? If anything, it sounds like the principal is only warning what may happen if your child continues to undermine their authority.

I think you may find out more than you wanted to know at the meeting.

vanessamee

Middle Man wrote: »

So the girl firing the elastic bands - that's OK and her victim has no right to protest???

Am I missing something???

I think litte johnny isnt as innocent as his making out and daddy mite be in for a suprise when visiting the school

No Pants

Middle Man wrote: »

AFAIK, to hit another person is assault! Age might be a factor, but to hit or hurt another person is wrong - simple as!

Should have called the Guards then. Once there's a crime number, consider a visit to the PIAB.

Every so often I flirt with the idea of becoming a teacher. This kind of nonsense is a helpful reminder of why I should never, ever do it: pain in the hoop kids and their even greater pain in the hoop parents.

Five Lamps

I recall a similar situation to this that happened to me in school. Wrong place at the wrong time and got detention for something I wasn't involved in.

Suspenesion would have been a harsh punishment but detention is no big deal. The best advice is take the punishment and get over it. Apologise and move on. Lifes too short. In fact he many even get some kudos from getting detention.

yawhat!

What sort of school are you in seriously? Detention and suspension for talking??. Sounds like a concentration camp. I really think you are trolling or your son is definitely not telling you the truth.

There is no hope in help you would get suspended for talking or refusing to apologize

nuac

seb65 wrote: »

If you want to deal with the situation as a parent, arrange a meeting with yourself, the teacher and the principal. Discuss how the school is allowing your child to be bullied during class time and remind them how serious the issue of bullying has become in Ireland recently. Ask them why they are punishing your child for asking another child to stop bullying him.

Before the meeting ask them for their school policy on bullying, if they provide you with one, pick out the provisions that were broken during the incident. Ask them why they are not following their own policies.

When the meeting is over, if you feel they have not responded to your satisfaction, write a registered letter to the principal outlining the incident and: why you believe your child was mistreated; how the child was bullied on school grounds during class time; and how the school not only failed to act, but punished your child for trying to stop the behaviour, in a non-violent way.

or tell the child to apologise for talking in class, and move on.

Bobby The Builder

nuac wrote: »

or tell the child to apologise for talking in class, and move on.

Firstly, don't tell me how to raise my child. That's none of your business.

He wasn't talking in class, he was asking someone to stop harassing him.

Could you tell me what he was supposed to do?? let her continue doing it?? huh??

yawhat! wrote: »

What sort of school are you in seriously? Detention and suspension for talking??. Sounds like a concentration camp. I really think you are trolling or your son is definitely not telling you the truth.

There is no hope in help you would get suspended for talking or refusing to apologize

Yes, the suspension is not for talking.

He was asked to apologize for talking in class, if he doesn't apologize, he will receive lunch time detention, if he refuses to attend detention he will receive suspension.

I cannot believe the nerve of being accused of trolling. I am seething with anger over the whole thing. I am just back from the principal actually, she agreed to discuss it there and then when I dropped down for an appointment.

I'll explain next post.

Bobby The Builder

I went down to the school at 10AM and asked to see Mrs. *******, the principal.

She called my son out of class along with Mrs. *******, the teacher and the girl who was flicking rubber.

The girl outright denied flicking rubbers as she wasn't actually seen when the teacher walked back in, despite there being segments between his chair and the front of her desk and segments stuck to his jumper.

The principal recommended a "compromise", that my son apologizes there and then and the whole thing will be dropped.

I refused to let him apologize in principle as the rubber segments were clear evidence and were there for the teacher to see, and there is sweet fúck all way else for there to be those segments between the two desks.

I have taken my son home now and he is very upset. Like I said he is only a timid lad at the best of times and is not that popular among his classmates compared to his girl, which means even if he is in the right, people might stick up for the girl because of popularity etc. Being timid, I also admire him for sticking to his guns, which makes me believe him even more.

I am not going to let this finish at this and him apologizing.