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Son suspended falsely - Extremely angry

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    #92
    redandwhite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 105 ✭✭redandwhite


    Phoebas wrote: »
    You'd confront the problem head on by leading it down a tangent!

    It's the main problem. A teacher should never leave a class unsupervised and is ultimately responsible for all that happens in their absence.


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    #93
    Triangla
    Registered Users Posts: 818 ✭✭✭Triangla


    Phoebas wrote: »
    The teacher/principal did make a judgement call - that detention was merited.

    OP - if you keep fighting this you may well win. The school might well decide that its too much grief to follow your line of escalation and let it pass; if a pyrrhic victory is important to you.

    I said judgement as in it's common meaning. 'The ability to make considered decisions or come to sensible conclusions.'

    Poor judgement I would refer to as a lack of judgement. The teacher displayed poor judgement going by what information the OP has given us.

    Re: Pyrrhic victory. I'm sure the OPs son will have a bit to say about that. Knowing your parents will stand up for you when you have been wronged is as important as knowing they will punish you when you are in the wrong.


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    #94
    No Pants
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,347 ✭✭✭No Pants


    redandwhite wrote: »
    It's the main problem. A teacher should never leave a class unsupervised and is ultimately responsible for all that happens in their absence.
    So the teacher should apologise and take themselves off to detention?


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    #95
    Losty Dublin
    Registered Users Posts: 13,144 ✭✭✭✭Losty Dublin


    No Pants wrote: »
    So the teacher should apologise and take themselves off to detention?

    Maybe the teachers parents should complain to the principal about their detention.


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    #96
    FreudianSlippers
    Registered Users Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    I'm sending this to Parenting, locked, as it has truly run its course in Legal Discussion. Mods may choose to unlock and the discussion can continue or they may not if they feel there is nothing of value to add.


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    #97
    Bobby The Builder
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 24 ✭Bobby The Builder


    Almost there:

    Had another meeting with the school today and brought my wife. They acknowledge their wrong-doing and are waiving the suspension and the lunch detention.

    The didn't punish the little brute who terrorized my son, nor did the teacher or the principal actually apologize exactly. I am going to ask for an apology for myself and for my son for being accused of such.

    Keep your eyes on here for any updates.


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    #98
    B_Rabbit
    Registered Users Posts: 1,364 ✭✭✭B_Rabbit


    Bobby The Builder wrote: »
    Almost there:

    Had another meeting with the school today and brought my wife. They acknowledge their wrong-doing and are waiving the suspension and the lunch detention.

    The didn't punish the little brute who terrorized my son, nor did the teacher or the principal actually apologize exactly. I am going to ask for an apology for myself and for my son for being accused of such.

    Keep your eyes on here for any updates.

    Pushing your luck.


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    #99
    Bobby The Builder
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 24 ✭Bobby The Builder


    B_Rabbit wrote: »
    Pushing your luck.

    Weren't they pushing their luck in slandering my son's good name throughout the school and by causing him such hardship and stress??

    If one of the kids sneezes or steps out of line in the slightest they have to apologize (as my son had to apologize when he was accused of talking).

    Why should it be one rule for them and one for the kids?

    This isn't a Nazi Concentration camp (and before anyone mentions it, yes, I am well aware that I have "Godwinned" my own thread).


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    #100
    B_Rabbit
    Registered Users Posts: 1,364 ✭✭✭B_Rabbit


    Slandering his "good name" ? "hardship and stress" ??
    Hardly, he almost got a detention, and there was a slight whiff of suspension.

    Jesus, get a slight grip on reality.


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    #101
    Bobby The Builder
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 24 ✭Bobby The Builder


    B_Rabbit wrote: »
    Slandering his "good name" ? "hardship and stress" ??
    Hardly, he almost got a detention, and there was a slight whiff of suspension.

    Jesus, get a slight grip on reality.

    False accusations are horrendous.

    When you accuse someone of something in the wrong the very least you can do is apologize. Should he not be commended by the school for his non-violent / non-abusive protest??


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    #102
    Days 298
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,311 ✭✭✭Days 298


    u
    Bobby The Builder wrote: »
    Mods, sorry if this is an incorrect forum for this, move if required.

    I am not seeking legal advice as such, I just want to know where I stand. I might just accept my son's suspension from school and leave it there and not push my luck.

    OK, my son was in computer class in school and the teacher left the room momentarily and said while she was leaving "no talking or walking around", or something like that.

    Everyone was working on a task (it involved sing excel for maths). When the teacher left some of the students ran amok and were talking. One of the girls was flicking bits of rubber at his back continuously, she is known in the class for being a bit of a messer. Anyway, after getting about 9 or 10 hits on the back and back of the head he turned around and said stop .. at that instant the teacher walked back in and accused him of talking.

    She assigned him lunch time detention and wants an apology from him for disobeying teachers orders despite him saying what had happened and showing the teacher the eraser segments on the ground.

    He is refusing to apologise and accept his lunch time detention which is supposed to take place next week and because of this, the teacher and principal are threatening to escalate this to suspension. Even though he has the back up of a few of his class mates.

    He is one of the less popular kids and the messer girl is more popular so people are sticking up for her even though she was in the wrong.

    Any advice on where I would stand would be greatly appreciated. Thanks folks.
    Used to be a lad in the school Id go to. Used to get suspended once or twice a year. By 5ft year he just exclaimed "What did I do?" "No I didnt" "Stop picking on me you do nothing when the other guys do it and I didnt even do it" The teacher would see him doing whatever he was at. He would be given a detention or threatened with more. Anyway hes father would come in and take hes side, the school wouldnt win. He never got suspended or had to go to detention again....

    Moral of story: Deny,deny, claim your being singled out.... Immunity.


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    #103
    Vito Corleone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,753 ✭✭✭Vito Corleone


    Your son must prove to them that he is a ferocious warrior who will not accept this great humiliation and is not afraid to fight to the death.


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    #104
    3DataModem
    Registered Users Posts: 3,997 ✭✭✭3DataModem


    Bobby The Builder wrote: »
    So what was he supposed to do? Let her keep flicking rubber segments indefinitely?

    Well, eventually the teacher will come back, or she'll get bored, or run out of rubber. Head down = no detention.

    I suggest he speak to the teacher concerned and explain calmly what happened, and tell him and the principle that despite this he'll do the detention to keep the peace and did talk when asked not to.


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    #105
    JumpShivers
    Closed Accounts Posts: 580 ✭✭✭JumpShivers


    OP, you blew it way out of proportion.

    The student was asked not to talk - he did. He could've dealt with the rubber flicking when the teacher arrived back into the classroom. It wasn't dealt with when he spoke, or even when the teacher returned. It didn't make any difference.

    Hardship and stress? G'way. It could've easily been sorted if you backed off and stopped hyping the incident up. He's a teenager. Easily could've been sorted himself.

    Also, you would not allow your son to apologize because of YOUR principles? Gonna live his life for your son, yeah?

    I'd suggest you back off, you're doing him no favours. Again as I mentioned, I'd be mortified if my dad made a huge deal out of something that could've been sorted in a day. Really.


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    #106
    RoryMac
    Registered Users Posts: 5,288 ✭✭✭RoryMac


    Bobby The Builder wrote: »
    False accusations are horrendous.

    When you accuse someone of something in the wrong the very least you can do is apologize. Should he not be commended by the school for his non-violent / non-abusive protest??
    Was he not accused of talking which you admitted he did in the OP?

    The school have backed down now but pushing them with a demand for an apology will most likely lead to your son's 'cards being marked' and a stiffer punishment down the line if he steps out of line


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    #107
    Zen65
    Registered Users Posts: 2,630 ✭✭✭Zen65


    beauf wrote: »
    Hes been suckered into talking. Can't get out of that. Lesson learnt. Maybe strike a deal that the teacher doesn't lose face/authority.

    ^ This is it!

    Yes, it's not strictly fair, in the same way that life isn't fair. The girl set him up; she played the game to get him to be the one to break the rule. The other kids get a laugh, your son learns his lesson. Rules, however spurious, are rules in a school.

    Playing the "bullying" card is wrong. This isn't bullying, it's a one-off set up. Using "bullying" as an excuse here insults those people who do genuinely get bullied repeatedly in school. The more you and your son make a big deal of it, the more it will happen to him. You need to show example to him and say quite clearly that he did break the rule, even though the reason for doing so is understandable. If he allows himself to react to the taunts then there is a price to pay.

    Understanding that may one day save him serious injury.

    Be at peace,

    Z


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    #108
    vamos!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 525 ✭✭✭vamos!


    Bobby The Builder wrote: »
    Almost there:

    Had another meeting with the school today and brought my wife. They acknowledge their wrong-doing and are waiving the suspension and the lunch detention.

    The didn't punish the little brute who terrorized my son, nor did the teacher or the principal actually apologize exactly. I am going to ask for an apology for myself and for my son for being accused of such.

    Keep your eyes on here for any updates.
    Bobby The Builder wrote: »
    Almost there:

    Had another meeting with the school today and brought my wife. They acknowledge their wrong-doing and are waiving the suspension and the lunch detention.

    The didn't punish the little brute who terrorized my son, nor did the teacher or the principal actually apologize exactly. I am going to ask for an apology for myself and for my son for being accused of such.

    Keep your eyes on here for any updates.


    I think you should let sleeping dogs lie. Your son did talk. Yes, he deemed the circumstances to require it but it is like saying I was doing 70 in a 50 but the car behind me was driving close to me and flashing its lights. Not relevant. The school has to keep a semblance of order and the teacher made the wrong call. Your son should have apologised immediately and spoken to the teacher after class. I would bet they would have apologised for being in the wrong and possibly looked into the rubber situation. Like I would appease an irate parent even if I am in the right before explaining the circumstances calmly.

    You have over-reacted to a crazy level and caused a mundane situation to erupt. You are not setting your son a good example and are making yourself out to be unreasonable and quite frankly a bit unstable. Misunderstandings are part and parcel of life and knowing how to deal with them is a life skill you should be teaching your son. Fighting fire with fire is not one of them. Comparing a misunderstanding in a school in a developed country to a concentration camp is melodramatic to say the least. Referring to someone else's child as a thug for flicking bits of a rubber at your son is not very mature.

    The teacher was wrong initially. It was wrong to leave the room and to demand teenagers were quiet when left alone. It was wrong of your son not to apologise for talking (which he did) and clarify the situation later. The most wrong in the whole sorry tale has been perpetuated by you, You overreacted, you are being overly dramatic, you are calling a teenager a thug based on another teenagers version of events, you are refusing to drop it and you seem to be taking some form of pride in coming back here to tell us how you are fighting a silly cause and going to continue to do so long after rational people consider it over. The principal doesn't owe you an apology, you owe him one. Good luck to you if your son ever gets corrected by the the Guards. Will you storm in to save him from a concentartion-camp style hell if he ever gets put in the cells?


    Also what was your son accused of only talking in class, which he did?


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    #109
    Five Lamps
    Closed Accounts Posts: 687 ✭✭✭Five Lamps


    Yeah, I'd leave well enough alone here.

    Lead by example etc.


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    #110
    noiniho
    Closed Accounts Posts: 193 ✭✭noiniho


    I don't know who needs to grow up more you or your son.


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    #111
    vamos!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 525 ✭✭✭vamos!


    Bobby The Builder wrote: »
    False accusations are horrendous.

    When you accuse someone of something in the wrong the very least you can do is apologize. Should he not be commended by the school for his non-violent / non-abusive protest??

    What was the false accusation? No he should not be commended. He didn't lead some Ghandi-style protest- he refused to do what he was asked and set his father about causing a ludicrous scene involving management. Hardly commendable.


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    #112
    mathepac
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,991 ✭✭✭mathepac


    GerardKeating wrote: »
    But (as you said) he did talk...
    Which is what the teacher observed.


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    #113
    beveragelady
    Registered Users Posts: 854 ✭✭✭beveragelady


    I have been following this thread and I wanted to interject a few times but I resisted. I can no longer resist I'm afraid.
    OP, take a few steps back ask yourself why a teacher would victimise your boy out of the blue. If he's the blameless angel you feel he is, the teacher would let him away with the odd slip-up in order not to damage a good working relationship. If he's been caught misbehaving, as you admit he has, he should take his punishment. There is an important life lesson to be learned out of this.
    You have already waded in all guns blazing in his defense. Now he probably believes he as done no wrong, because teenage boys have notoriously malleable memories where this sort of thing is concerned. He has learned nothing at all of value, but he has picked up the notion that the rules don't apply to him because his daddy makes loud noises. (I'd love to see his face in a few years when he gets a speeding ticket and all the shouting in the world won't help.)
    Before you make more loud and self-righteous noises consider this: That poor lad has to spend a good chunk of his time in that school. You are making life harder for him by throwing your weight about like this. The teacher concerned will have a good laugh about the whole thing in the staff room, and other teachers will see your son in a new light as a result. If you pursue this you will convince your son that it is a case of students versus teachers. This is not helpful, and potentially damaging to his education.
    I'm watching a similar case unfolding at the moment, where a low-level troublemaker is playing his mother against a teacher. The upshot of this will be that the troublemaker will be watched very closely by all his teachers, and when he acts out again he will be treated exactly according to the rules of the school. Instead of getting a warning and something along the lines of "come on now, there's no need for that, you're a great worker, let's get this work finished," he will be hauled before the year head and formally chastised. Right or wrong (wrong, probably) this will happen, because his mother has made enemies of his teachers.
    You mentioned that he's not one of the popular kids. You're not helping.


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    #114
    Bobby The Builder
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 24 ✭Bobby The Builder


    vamos! wrote: »
    Yes, he deemed the circumstances to require it but it is like saying I was doing 70 in a 50 but the car behind me was driving close to me and flashing its lights. Not relevant. The school has to keep a semblance of order

    Not the same thing, because the car on front will dictate the pace and could easily let the other car tailgate (as I always do when some eejit decides to do it.
    vamos! wrote: »
    Your son should have apologised immediately and spoken to the teacher after class. I would bet they would have apologised for being in the wrong and possibly looked into the rubber situation. Like I would appease an irate parent even if I am in the right before explaining the circumstances calmly.

    Talk calmly ?? How could he do that when the teacher came in guns blazing?? If you bother to read the entire thread you will see that they acknowledged at first that there were rubber segments but they refused to punish the girl as there was no proof of her wrong-doing, even though it would have been blatantly obvious what she was doing.

    A bit of discretion is what's needed.
    vamos! wrote: »
    I

    You have over-reacted to a crazy level and caused a mundane situation to erupt. You are not setting your son a good example

    They're the ones overreacting for threatening suspension for not apologizing for something he didn't do. He said one word to a bully to get her to stop. That's hardly chatting with someone.

    Yes, I am setting a very good example. Don't be walked on.
    vamos! wrote: »


    Also what was your son accused of only talking in class, which he did?


    There's no need to violate the spirit of the rules for the letter of the law.


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    #115
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,535 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Bobby The Builder wrote: »
    False accusations are horrendous.

    When you accuse someone of something in the wrong the very least you can do is apologize. Should he not be commended by the school for his non-violent / non-abusive protest??
    He wasn't accused in the wrong he did talk when told not to


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    #116
    randylonghorn
    Registered Users Posts: 29,509 ✭✭✭✭randylonghorn


    Bobby The Builder wrote: »
    Firstly, don't tell me how to raise my child. That's none of your business.
    You posted on a public forum and asked for a response. You therefore opened yourself to getting advice / comments. If you didn't want people telling you "your business", don't post in the first place.

    You're going to hate me even more for what I'm going to say next.

    Biggest problem here isn't the teacher, the school or your son, it's you, with your "Fight the Powah!" attitudes, and your absolute lack of a sense of perspective.

    What will happen to your son when he grows up and meets all the myriad minor unfairnesses and injustices which occur every day in all our lives, often with no actual malice behind them?

    Lose his head and create a stink over every one? He'll be popular with his employers, workmates, even his friends!

    And that, by your example, is what you are teaching him to do ... instead of brushing off minor inconveniences which will be forgotten an hour later, and saving his energy for the issues where there is actually something at stake.

    And btw, your thread title is completely inaccurate ... your son wasn't suspended at all, let alone suspended falsely.


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    #117
    beveragelady
    Registered Users Posts: 854 ✭✭✭beveragelady


    OP, take a look at the responses you're getting. None of them are from people who are emotionally invested in the situation, they're clear-headed and objective. Maybe you are from a certain generation and you have waited years to get one back at the teaching profession, or maybe you're genuinely convinced that your son is being treated unfairly. Either way, ask yourself why you're so motivated to make this situation worse. You're not behaving in a way that will benefit your boy in the long run. Let it lie.


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    #118
    Mardy Bum
    Registered Users Posts: 3,674 ✭✭✭Mardy Bum


    Unless the child has been a victim of bullying (flicking rubbers in one class is not bullying) for quite sometime then the parental response has been way way overboard. Admittedly, the teacher should not have left the class and he/she was probably reprimanded for this by management. This will do the boy no favours in the long run.


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    #119
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,990 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    If you think he was being picked on before, by flicking few bits of rubber at him, wait till he's back in school tomorrow and the "popular" kid tells the rest of his class that he's a tell tale who has to get his daddy to fight his battles.

    You have won a small battle in the wrong war.


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    #120
    terryduff12
    Registered Users Posts: 501 ✭✭✭terryduff12


    So if a child has a asthma attack he can't asked someone for help as that would be talking the lad wasn't sitting on the table having the Craic with the boys now was he. Last time I talked to someone it carried on for more than 5 seconds. If that teacher can't be bothered to listen to what happened then go and get some classes on how to deal with kids.what's is suppose to teach the child own up to something he didn't do great experience for the child to carry on to adulthood.


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    #121
    Big Bag of Chips
    Administrators Posts: 14,038 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Big Bag of Chips


    Bobby The Builder wrote: »
    When the teacher left some of the students ran amok and were talking.

    Just wondering about the other kids who were running amok and talking? If your son only said "one word" at the exact moment the teacher walked in, and others in the class were running amok and talking how did she even hear your son?

    Usually there's either someone who "keeps sketch" to say when the teacher is coming back and lets everyone know, or the class is caught in the act of running amok and talking, when the teacher walks back in.

    Now maybe all the other students were equally asked to apologise/given detention whatever for "running amok and talking". If so - and if they took their punishment/apologised whichever, then your son should have just fallen in with the crowd at that point, and said a half hearted "sorry" and gone to speak to the teacher after the class.

    Just let it drop now. You've gotten what you wanted - your son does not have to apologise, do detention or be suspended. Pushing this further is likely going to cause more trouble, and embarrassment for your son.


This discussion has been closed.
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