Why don't Irish men look after their shoes?

eviltimeban

More often than not, when I see Irish men wearing shoes with suits, the shoes are unpolished, scuffed, and generally in rag order. The number one thing you have to have is clean polished shoes!

Twee.

Are you trying to start a discussion or just ranting? Have you any shoe care tips to share?

freshpopcorn

Have you any stat's to back this up?

sawdoubters

my mummy does it for me

Balaclava1991

Kintarō Hattori

As an Irish man I'm shocked and appalled OP. I own both Polish as well as leather protector and apply both!

Howard Juneau

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

As an Irish man I'm shocked and appalled OP. I own both Polish as well as leather protector and apply both!

I sat down on my back step a few days ago to polish all my boots, and it did occur to me "I can't imagine that any of my friends bother to do this".

Anyone any mad tips? I knew someone once who used to swear that he rubbed the inside of a banana skin on his shoes as a final layer of shine

eviltimeban

OK OK I wasn't having a rant, I was just observing. Most older guys I know (let's say, 35+) look after their shoes. Young guys tend not to. I don't have any stats, only personal opinion formed from observation - guys on the train, guys in town, guys in shops, etc. I keep an eye out for these kinds of things you see. Tie knots, shirt collars, trouser lengths, shoe care - its the little details.

And tips? Polish your shoes every day! Its all about building up a wax - layer upon layer, to protect the leather. My dad used a product called Dale's Dubbin, but I just use a regular polish, applied with a soft cloth and removed with a brush. That's all. Easy peasy. A friend of mine swears by shoe trees, I haven't got any but its something I'm going to look into.

Balaclava1991

eviltimeban wrote: »

OK OK I wasn't having a rant, I was just observing. Most older guys I know (let's say, 35+) look after their shoes. Young guys tend not to. I don't have any stats, only personal opinion formed from observation - guys on the train, guys in town, guys in shops, etc. I keep an eye out for these kinds of things you see. Tie knots, shirt collars, trouser lengths, shoe care - its the little details.

And tips? Polish your shoes every day! Its all about building up a wax - layer upon layer, to protect the leather. My dad used a product called Dale's Dubbin, but I just use a regular polish, applied with a soft cloth and removed with a brush. That's all. Easy peasy. A friend of mine swears by shoe trees, I haven't got any but its something I'm going to look into.

I use one brush to apply the polish, another brush to smooth it out and a cloth to bring out the shine.

In regard to tie knots there is nothing worse than the school boy knot when men are wearing an expensive suit, shirt and tie. They look like ruffians.
Most men nowadays do not know how to tie a half windsor or a full windsor or other knots. A proper tie knot can actually make a cheap tie, cheap shirt and cheap suit look elegant while a poor knot no matter how expensive the suit, shirt and tie will look awful.

dudara

It's not just men to be honest, some women have very scruffy looking shoes (and bags) too.

It's important to look after leather items.

eviltimeban

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

I use one brush to apply the polish, another brush to smooth it out and a cloth to bring out the shine.

In regard to tie knots there is nothing worse than the school boy knot when men are wearing an expensive suit, shirt and tie. They look like ruffians.
Most men nowadays do not know how to tie a half windsor or a full windsor or other knots. A proper tie knot can actually make a cheap tie, cheap shirt and cheap suit look elegant while a poor knot no matter how expensive the suit, shirt and tie will look awful.

By school boy knot, are you using a casual term or are you referring to the 4 in the hand knot, also known as the school boy knot? This is the knot I use and it looks great!

GreeBo

Use an old pair of tights to shine your shoes after you have buffed them with the polishing brush, amazing shine.
If you buy expensive shoes, buy shoe trees!
I use them in all my golf shoes and it keeps them perfect for far longer.

Toast4532

What are shoe trees?

Balaclava1991

eviltimeban wrote: »

By school boy knot, are you using a casual term or are you referring to the 4 in the hand knot, also known as the school boy knot? This is the knot I use and it looks great!

No offence but that knot looks awful and extremely sloppy.

This is a full Windsor knot. It looks far neater and classy and it feels more comfortable than the school boy knot.



Here is how to tie the simpler half-Windsor



And this is how to tie the full-Windsor.



I get a pain in the face when I see a guy who had gone to the trouble of buying a good suit and shirt and tie and doesn't know how to tie a good knot.

The most important elements to how a man dresses and stands out are his tie knot, how he shines his shoes and his cuff links.

Invest in all three and even if you are a low budget dresser you will look classy.

Shiny shoes are always a must.

omb0wyn5ehpij9

Toast4532 wrote: »

What are shoe trees?

They are something you put in your shoes to keep the shape when you aren't wearing them. These are shoe trees:

eviltimeban

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

No offence but that knot looks awful and extremely sloppy.

OK you clearly have no idea what you're talking about. I'm not offended, I just can't respect your opinion.

The picture you posted, the knot is far too big for the collars. And its an awful tie. It looks like something Donald Trump wore in the 90s.

eviltimeban

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

The most important elements to how a man dresses and stands out are his tie knot, how he shines his shoes and his cuff links.

This is a bit of a facile approach to judging the elements. What you really should be looking at is:

- quality of cloth / material
- cut of the suit / trousers
- balance of colours / textures

and then everything else. It goes without saying that a man who has the above three things right will naturally have polished shoes. Cufflinks? No. Not all shirts are double cuff.

And getting back to the ties, see here for more excellent examples of four in the hand knots: http://www.styleforum.net/t/275666/getting-the-four-in-hand-knot-right

Didn't this thread start off being about shoes?

Balaclava1991

eviltimeban wrote: »

OK you clearly have no idea what you're talking about. I'm not offended, I just can't respect your opinion.

The picture you posted, the knot is far too big for the collars. And its an awful tie. It looks like something Donald Trump wore in the 90s.

The half windsor can be used for a smaller collar while the full windsor is suited for a bigger collar.
It doesn't matter about the color of the tie. The picture I used was just illustrative of the knot.
The school boy knot looks like the type of knot a guy who habitually wears shell suits would put on when he goes to court.
There are hundreds of other variations on the tie knot so you can pick your own.
The school buy knot is the perfect way to ruin the look of expensive clothes.
Combined with buffed up shoes and cuff links you can't go wrong.

There is nothing worse than shoes that are scuffed and dirty. It looks awful.

At the moment there seems to be a godawful fashion of dressing sloppily.

Balaclava1991

eviltimeban wrote: »

This is a bit of a facile approach to judging the elements. What you really should be looking at is:

- quality of cloth / material
- cut of the suit / trousers
- balance of colours / textures

and then everything else. It goes without saying that a man who has the above three things right will naturally have polished shoes. Cufflinks? No. Not all shirts are double cuff.

And getting back to the ties, see here for more excellent examples of four in the hand knots: http://www.styleforum.net/t/275666/getting-the-four-in-hand-knot-right

Didn't this thread start off being about shoes?

Yes it did start about shoes but shining your shoes is only part of a full effect.

I wouldn't buy a shirt that is not suitable for cuff links. End of. What's the point?

In the same if I was a smoker I would smoke a pipe rather than a rolled cigarettes or if I was force to eat fast food I would go to Subway or Burger King rather than Supermacs.

My point was that if you are cannot afford expensive tailoring you can make yourself look better by taking care of your tie knot and your shoes together.

I've seen guys who clearly have a good income and good jobs looking like complete gurriers because they have dirty shoes and can't tie a knot.

If you are wearing shoes than can be polished you should polish them.

If I could order men who dress sloppily to be shot by firing squad I would do it!:)

househero

I recently came back from Milan. I couldn't believe that most men were wearing formal shoes, with casual clothes. The youngsters were all wearing beige timberlands.

I like to look like a man, I won't wear a man bag, scarf or shoes with a heel. I do wear very expensive smart clothes, a £1200 Armani coat, with £90 trainers because I have yet to find smart casual shoes that don't rape my feet. If you feel like judging me, or make presumptions about me, that's fine with me, I will live my good life and you are free to get upset about what I wear on my feet. Each to their own.

Monkeybonkers

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

If I could order men who dress sloppily to be shot by firing squad I would do it!:)

You think people should be murdered because they don't conform to your standards? Maybe you should look at your own Hitleresque opinions before you start judging others by what they wear.

People can wear what they want, they don't need Nazi-like commentators like you wishing death upon them because they haven't polished their shoes!!

eviltimeban

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

Yes it did start about shoes but shining your shoes is only part of a full effect.

I wouldn't buy a shirt that is not suitable for cuff links. End of. What's the point?

In the same if I was a smoker I would smoke a pipe rather than a rolled cigarettes or if I was force to eat fast food I would go to Subway or Burger King rather than Supermacs.

My point was that if you are cannot afford expensive tailoring you can make yourself look better by taking care of your tie knot and your shoes together.

I've seen guys who clearly have a good income and good jobs looking like complete gurriers because they have dirty shoes and can't tie a knot.

If you are wearing shoes than can be polished you should polish them.

If I could order men who dress sloppily to be shot by firing squad I would do it!:)

Again, you are completely and utterly wrong on many points, and on your approach.

Double cuff / French cuff shirts are not the only cuff types to wear. Look around Italian / European style, in many cases the shirts are single cuffs. I wear single cuffs in the summer, as the cuff is lighter in warmer weather.

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

The school boy knot looks like the type of knot a guy who habitually wears shell suits would put on when he goes to court.

Again, you obviously haven't seen many guys going to court. What you get there is a massive tie knot, too short tie, and hung loosely from the neck. Like what footballers wear.

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

The school buy knot is the perfect way to ruin the look of expensive clothes.

Your vehemence towards a tie knot which is clearly a perfectly stylish, popular and accepted knot (when done properly - did you look at that link in my last post?) is somewhat odd. Again, I cannot argue with you as I just plain don't respect your opinion.

Don't feed the trolls, methinks.

JOSman

sawdoubters wrote: »

my mummy does it for me

That's the reason why!

househero

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

If you are wearing shoes than can be polished you should polish them.

If I could order men who dress sloppily to be shot by firing squad I would do it!:)

You should probably worry about something else. I would expect an uprising from the fashion police would would be quickly beaten in to submission by men who couldn't care less about what they wear on their feet. A pair of work boots to the head would swiftly stop cries of 'oooo those shoes are scuffed' hahahahaha

I suspect your declaration of 'ordering' men who dress sloppily to be shot by firing squad, is quite telling about your undisclosed public displeasure.

Maybe a man wearing bad shoes is making a statement about his sexual preference. Blame societies unwritten rules not the man. You might like to move to Italy if shoes are really that important.

Balaclava1991

househero wrote: »

I recently came back from Milan. I couldn't believe that most men were wearing formal shoes, with casual clothes. The youngsters were all wearing beige timberlands.

I like to look like a man, I won't wear a man bag, scarf or shoes with a heel. I do wear very expensive smart clothes, a £1200 Armani coat, with £90 trainers because I have yet to find smart casual shoes that don't rape my feet. If you feel like judging me, or make presumptions about me, that's fine with me, I will live my good life and you are free to get upset about what I wear on my feet. Each to their own.

Nobody is saying you can't wear casual shoes.

But if someone is wearing polishable shoes they should polish them. That's all.

It looks bad if they are scuffed.

eviltimeban

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

Nobody is saying you can't wear casual shoes.

But if someone is wearing polishable shoes they should polish them. That's all.

It looks bad if they are scuffed.

That, I agree with.

Balaclava1991

househero wrote: »

You should probably worry about something else. I would expect an uprising from the fashion police would would be quickly beaten in to submission by men who couldn't care less about what they wear on their feet. A pair of work boots to the head would swiftly stop cries of 'oooo those shoes are scuffed' hahahahaha

I suspect your declaration of 'ordering' men who dress sloppily to be shot by firing squad, is quite telling about your undisclosed public displeasure.

Maybe a man wearing bad shoes is making a statement about his sexual preference. Blame societies unwritten rules not the man. You might like to move to Italy if shoes are really that important.

Polishing your shoes is civilized.

Similarly if you are eating in a fancy restaurant you do not eat with your hands, wolf your food and speak when your mouth is full or if you are at a classical music concert you don't rip open a giant packet of crisps and distract everyone with crunching noises.

househero

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

Nobody is saying you can't wear casual shoes.

But if someone is wearing polishable shoes they should polish them. That's all.

It looks bad if they are scuffed.

Its true. But, what you must realise, is they don't give a shot. (I'm not swearing on here) They probably wouldn't be wearing formal attire if they didn't have to.

Spending too much time in airports I get to see how the majority if people from other countries dress (or at least how people flying to those countries dress as a whole), Irish men are quite smart in comparison, American designer brands are quite common. Much better looking than sports clothes loving countries. Of which there are many. Next time you are in an airport take a look at the boarding q for a few countries and you will see what I mean.

And actually in some countries eating with your hands in a 'fancy' restaurant is quite the norm. Maybe a little bit of travel will open your mind and change your expectations and priorities in life. There are so many more important things to worry about in life. Such as being more tolerant of other people and their decisions in life.

Its best not to judge on appearances as it often leads to embarrassing incorrect assumptions.

An Riabhach

eviltimeban wrote: »

More often than not, when I see Irish men wearing shoes with suits, the shoes are unpolished, scuffed, and generally in rag order. The number one thing you have to have is clean polished shoes!

And this is a problem with Irish men only,is it?
Strangely enough I don't look at anybody elses suits or shoes unless they ask me to.

eviltimeban

Seasan wrote: »

And this is a problem with Irish men only,is it?
Strangely enough I don't look at anybody elses suits or shoes unless they ask me to.

Well... I live in Ireland... I see men in Ireland... hence... etc. You see where I'm going. I apologise if I've included other nationalities by mistake.

Well I just guess no one has asked me either, but hey, we're on a Fashion and Appearance forum here, I was making an observation, one I still hold as true. I think that MEN IN IRELAND (then) could make a better effort of looking after their shoes when they are wearing a suit / going to work (I couldn't give a fiddlers what they wear casually).

Balaclava1991

househero wrote: »

Its true. But, what you must realise, is they don't give a shot. (I'm not swearing on here) They probably wouldn't be wearing formal attire if they didn't have to.

Spending too much time in airports I get to see how the majority if people from other countries dress (or at least how people flying to those countries dress as a whole), Irish men are quite smart in comparison, American designer brands are quite common. Much better looking than sports clothes loving countries. Of which there are many. Next time you are in an airport take a look at the boarding q for a few countries and you will see what I mean.

And actually in some countries eating with your hands in a 'fancy' restaurant is quite the norm. Maybe a little bit of travel will open your mind and change your expectations and priorities in life. There are so many more important things to worry about in life. Such as being more tolerant of other people and their decisions in life.

Its best not to judge on appearances as it often leads to embarrassing incorrect assumptions.

I am not going to compromise on this.
If you have black leather shoes you freaking polish them.
No arguments.

eviltimeban

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

I am not going to compromise on this.
If you have black leather shoes you freaking polish them.
No arguments.

Or burgundy, or brown, or tan, or navy, or green... or are we only allowed wear black ones? :rolleyes:

Balaclava1991

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

Polishing your shoes is civilized.

Civilised?

Surely that's a step too far. So people without polished shoes (perhaps because they have more important things to do) are less civilised than you?

I would say treating other people as your equals despite the state of their shoes is a considerably more civilised thing to do.

Sitting down to polish my shoes the other day took three hours, and I only had that time free because it was finally a bit nice outside (I wont use coloured polish indoors, I'm quite messy with it) and I was having a long weekend from work. Not everyone has that time, even if they were only to do a half-job at it.

Balaclava1991

true-or-false wrote: »

Civilised?

Surely that's a step too far. So people without polished shoes (perhaps because they have more important things to do) are less civilised than you?

I would say treating other people as your equals despite the state of their shoes is a considerably more civilised thing to do.

Sitting down to polish my shoes the other day took three hours, and I only had that time free because it was finally a bit nice outside (I wont use coloured polish indoors, I'm quite messy with it) and I was having a long weekend from work. Not everyone has that time, even if they were only to do a half-job at it.

It doesn't take three hours to polish your shoes!

A person who does not polish their shoes or cannot neatly knot a tie or button his top collar or shave properly or trim his beard or mow his lawn or cut back overgrown bushes or wash his car or keep his mouth shut when he chews is a lesser being.

Neatness and attention to detail is a sign of discipline, strength of character, responsibility and maturity.

Someone who can be trusted and depended upon.

Three hours to polish your shoes????

househero

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

I am not going to compromise on this.
If you have black leather shoes you freaking polish them.
No arguments.

The point is, people don't. And they are free to do so.

However I would look at VERY BADLY scuffed shoes the same way I see tights with bad ladders in them.

You are right in the fact that they could look so much better if they polished their shoes, I have thrown out a few pairs I could have probably just polished, but that would ruin the fun of buying new ones wouldn't it. But the point is, they look better wearing formal clothes and the way I see it, I can look better than the majority just with a little effort.

Worry about you, not others.

freshpopcorn

I think the truth is a lot of men see shoes as part of work and if they can get away with them looking scruffy there happy. I know men who would have good enough jobs and they might polish there shoes if they were really dirty or if they were going to a wedding/funeral.

eviltimeban

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

A person who does ...[snip]... is a lesser being.

That's a bit of a ridiculous comment.

househero

eviltimeban wrote: »

Well... I live in Ireland... I see men in Ireland... hence... etc. You see where I'm going.

Your statement makes it sound like your not Irish.

eviltimeban

BDJW wrote: »

They are something you put in your shoes to keep the shape when you aren't wearing them. These are shoe trees:

Well, proper ones look like this:



They help keep the shape of the shoes and absorb moisture from the leather.

eviltimeban

househero wrote: »

Your statement makes it sound like your not Irish.

I am Irish, born and bred in Dublin, but what's that got to do with it?

househero

eviltimeban wrote: »

I am Irish, born and bred in Dublin, but what's that got to do with it?

Nothing really. But its good to stir the pot on such a ridiculous thread haha with comments being thrown around about shooting scruffy shoe people who are deemed lesser beings than someone with too much time on their hands and probably no children. Its all gone a little mad in here.

I think people wearing grey trousers that are not in school, should have their legs sawn off and stitched back on upside down. Just for the craic.

Nice shoe preservers where did u get them?

GreeBo

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

I wouldn't buy a shirt that is not suitable for cuff links. End of. What's the point?

A double cuff shirt looks ridiculous with a fitted jumper, you have lumps at the end of your sleeve.

Perhaps you never wear a jumper/sweater?

eviltimeban

househero wrote: »

Nothing really. But its good to stir the pot on such a ridiculous thread haha with comments being thrown around about shooting scruffy shoe people who are deemed lesser beings than someone with too much time on their hands and probably no children. Its all gone a little mad in here.

It wasn't me that posted that - if you read back - it was Balaclava, and no, I do not agree with his / her comments.

I have children, two in fact, yet I'm still able to dress well and while I would never openly criticise a person's clothes, I just noted that a lot (not all) of Irish men (or men in Ireland) didn't look after their shoes very well. I wasn't making a judgement or offering them to a firing squad, just saying.

And yes the thread did go a little off the rails!

househero wrote: »

Nice shoe preservers where did u get them?

Image from the web - I don't have a set (yet). Apparently they are very good though.

eviltimeban

GreeBo wrote: »

A double cuff shirt looks ridiculous with a fitted jumper, you have lumps at the end of your sleeve.

Perhaps you never wear a jumper/sweater?

Because cufflinks maketh the man, apparently. :rolleyes:

househero

eviltimeban wrote: »

It wasn't me that posted that - if you read back - it was Balaclava, and no, I do not agree with his / her comments.

I have children, two in fact, yet I'm still able to dress well and while I would never openly criticise a person's clothes, I just noted that a lot (not all) of Irish men (or men in Ireland) didn't look after their shoes very well. I wasn't making a judgement or offering them to a firing squad, just saying.

And yes the thread did go a little off the rails!



Image from the web - I don't have a set (yet). Apparently they are very good though.

Yes it all went a little military.

I will have to go on a hunt for those shoe preservers. I'll post a thread if I find them somewhere here as they look brilliant even without my shoes on them haha.

eviltimeban

househero wrote: »

Yes it all went a little military.

I will have to go on a hunt for those shoe preservers. I'll post a thread if I find them somewhere here as they look brilliant even without my shoes on them haha.

I'll ask my friend where he got them, but they are also on Amazon: clicky

Balaclava1991

GreeBo wrote: »

A double cuff shirt looks ridiculous with a fitted jumper, you have lumps at the end of your sleeve.

Perhaps you never wear a jumper/sweater?

No.

Balaclava1991

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

It doesn't take three hours to polish your shoes!

If you see the first page of the thread, 'my shoes' refers to all of my many pairs of boots (one pair knee high, two pairs shin high, one pair short and one pair of ankle boots) - include the belty bits too and that's a lot of leather to get through, especially if you want it done right. One round of applying, then brush in, then another little bit of applying at the stitching and brush in, then shine with another brush, then shine with a pair of socks, then a last high-speed shine with a pair of tights (at which point I'm exhausted).

So yes, three hours.

I won't address the rest of your post as it has nothing to do with the topic on hand (and is quite scary).

Balaclava1991

true-or-false wrote: »

If you see the first page of the thread, 'my shoes' refers to all of my many pairs of boots (one pair knee high, two pairs shin high, one pair short and one pair of ankle boots) - include the belty bits too and that's a lot of leather to get through, especially if you want it done right. One round of applying, then brush in, then another little bit of applying at the stitching and brush in, then shine with another brush, then shine with a pair of socks, then a last high-speed shine with a pair of tights (at which point I'm exhausted).

So yes, three hours.

I won't address the rest of your post as it has nothing to do with the topic on hand (and is quite scary).

All you need is polish, one brush to apply it (a new brush is best), one brush (usually an older one with curled hairs) to smooth it out and then a cloth to buff up your shoes to a brilliant mirror shine. It takes 5 mins maximum to polish one pair of shoes to a brilliant shine. Kiwi shoe polish is the best.

How in the name of God could it take 3 hours to polish your shoes?

You only need to polish the pair of shoes you wish to wear on that particular day.

Kintarō Hattori

Now chaps.... let's get back on track.

Some people polish their shoes - yay.

Some people don't -boo.

We need to encourage those scoundrels to look after their appearance a little more.