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Anyone else depressed with house hunting?
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So its great because you will pay more of your savings and borrow more than had you bought last year. Eh ok.0
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Personally, we have been watching the market for about 3 years and seriously looking for about 6 months. We rent now and will want to start a family soon.
We would really like to stay in South Dublin. I actually think prices here will still come down. It's very difficult to get an accurate price. There's just not much sense in the market right now. In one area, the seller of a 2 bed apartment could be trying to get the same price as a 3 bed house. Also, there's seems to be a lot of big, detached houses for sale at prices close enough to semi-detached smaller estate houses, within 100-150 k. This seems to indicate that the latter is over-priced.
I think the hype now being put out by the media is just making sellers over-inflate their prices. I'm seeing some ridiculous prices for houses in D12 and D6W. I'm also seeing prices of houses increasing upwards to 30%, when no one wanted them 1 or 2 years ago, they were taken off the market and are now up for sale again.
If, as some on here say, people are advertising houses, but not actually intending to sell, then this will only lead to a downfall in prices. They'll be 'really' putting their houses on the market when there's more supply. If people are going to get deals under insolvency, this will lead to more houses being released. I'd wonder too if the post codes in 2015 are going to bring down the value of some of the more prestigious areas.
I'd never let an estate agent cajole me into paying more for a house either. I'd never get into a bidding war, especially since I could take or leave all of the houses on the market right now. There'll be a house eventually.0 -
nothing to do with keeping up with the neighbours if you knew anyone buying at the time, or anything about, or even if you didnt, didnt you say you werent around at the time???. Genuine fear and concern, pushed by the politicians, media that if you dont get on, well, your luck out, people tired of paying rent and wanted their own home and security to raise their families, the same thing people want now that are searching for a home Id warrant, and nothing wrong with it either.
As for your last paragraph, good for you, fcuk everyone except you, how decent and unselfish of you, the kind of attitude that helped in the past, fcuk everyone else except me, that will sort everything, you'll be in good company, that attitude seems to go down well in this country.
you're either very selfish or bitter or a troll, or all.
I havent been inclined to ever block anyone until now.
There is something wrong with it if you cant afford it. It is up to the individual to exercise constraint and to stress test their own situation to see if they can afford repayments in case many of the following life events occur over a 20/25 year period i.e. unemployment, maternity leave, interest rate hikes (rates were around 15% in 1992 - 93) etc. It is not the media or governments fault. It is a personal decision to buy a home, not an entitlement. Please do not try to remove the responsibility of an individual, making a decision individual to them.
It has been publicised that people that should have their homes repossessed are not meeting their mortgage repayments in part or fully. This means the banks are at a loss on this loan. Since the tax payer owns the banks, its the tax payers loss.
If i hypothetically monetised the situation to a personal level - you pay a mortgage of €20k a year. Joe down the road has the same mortgage of €20k a year but is not servicing his commitments. So you go to work, earn your salary, pay taxes, pay your mortgage and then at the end of the year you stroll into your bank, withdraw €20k and knock into Joe and hand it to him. How does that situation make you feel?0 -
Barely Hedged wrote: »There is something wrong with it if you cant afford it. It is up to the individual to exercise constraint and to stress test their own situation to see if they can afford repayments in case many of the following life events occur over a 20/25 year period. Please do not try to remove the responsibility of an individual, making a decision individual to them............If i hypothetically monetised the situation to a personal level - you pay a mortgage of €20k a year. Joe down the road has the same mortgage of €20k a year but is not servicing his commitments......
By the same analogy, Joe down the road could not forsee ( nor could any of us for that matter ) a significant life event 10 or 15 years later diminishing his power to service his mortgage commitments ? Were that to be the case , would any of us be secure in taking out mortgages in the first place unless heavily secured by protection insurances of one type or another. The plight of those unable to pay or downsize for genuine and proven reasons such as unemployment or illness etc should not be equated with those who blatantly abuse the system for their own financial gain to the detriment of the taxpayer . It's all to easy to say that we should look into the future and , on the basis that we might face changing financial circumstances at some stage down the road, therefore we shouldn't take out a mortgage. Were that to be the case , would you advocate renting ad infinitum ?
I'm not talking here about those who borrowed recklessly many multiples of their income at the instigation of lenders in the boom days and now find themselves trapped in lavish homes beyond their requirements and their budgets. I'm just advocating for (average ) Joe, who borrowed modestly and has now fallen on hard times, through no fault of his own, he can't and shouldn't be lumped in to the repossession clamour of the vultures waiting on the sidelines for easy pickings or the lectures of the smug high moral ground " I told you so" brigade who , thankfully, are in a much luckier position than our Joe !0 -
So its great because you will pay more of your savings and borrow more than had you bought last year. Eh ok.
In fact, no..
I'll just have to live somewhere other than D4/D6/D3 but otherwise prices for what I'm looking for haven't gone up at all. And I can borrow more to spend more, so instead of looking for an apartment I can buy a house if I wanted.
so in fact I am in a much better position than last year
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Woodville56 wrote: »By the same analogy, Joe down the road could not forsee ( nor could any of us for that matter ) a significant life event 10 or 15 years later diminishing his power to service his mortgage commitments ? Were that to be the case , would any of us be secure in taking out mortgages in the first place unless heavily secured by protection insurances of one type or another. The plight of those unable to pay or downsize for genuine and proven reasons such as unemployment or illness etc should not be equated with those who blatantly abuse the system for their own financial gain to the detriment of the taxpayer . It's all to easy to say that we should look into the future and , on the basis that we might face changing financial circumstances at some stage down the road, therefore we shouldn't take out a mortgage. Were that to be the case , would you advocate renting ad infinitum ?
I'm not talking here about those who borrowed recklessly many multiples of their income at the instigation of lenders in the boom days and now find themselves trapped in lavish homes beyond their requirements and their budgets. I'm just advocating for (average ) Joe, who borrowed modestly and has now fallen on hard times, through no fault of his own, he can't and shouldn't be lumped in to the repossession clamour of the vultures waiting on the sidelines for easy pickings or the lectures of the smug high moral ground " I told you so" brigade who , thankfully, are in a much luckier position than our Joe !
Thats the whole basis of my argument. The average mortgage term is 20/25 years. That is quite a long time for things to happen that may affect your repayment capacity. You might not be able to forsee such an event but you can certainly plan for it. There are schemes offered by insurance companies that can protect income streams for 1-2 years in the case of unemployment.
You ask would any of us be secure in taking out mortgages heavily secured by insurance. I dont know how you arent more secure taking out an insurance policy to cover against something that might happen over 20/25 years?
If you cant factor and afford the costs above into your monthly repayment, you cant analyse interest rates over the past 20/25 years and you dont have a decent amount of equity (10%-15% deposit), im sorry you cant afford a loan over this length of time. Just because its a loan on a property doesnt detract from the fact that its a loan. You must repay loans.
Well im talking about those who borrowed recklessly at both ends of the wealth spectrum. There were a lot of average Joe's out there that got 100% mortgages. Just because theyre an average Joe, they deserve preferential treatment over everybody else?
Modest borrowing would be entering into a loan agreement fully aware of your obligations, taking out protection for long term borrowing and investing a considerable amount of equity initially or having equity in place so that if bad times hit youre covered. I cant see how somebody who borrowed modestly, given my criteria above, would be near repossesion?0 -
Quite a few houses in our area for around the €89k mark 3 bed semis great houses walk in condition. 40 minutes on the new motorway to get to work in Dublin. Cash buyers may snap them up but quite a few left.0
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Block me because you don't like my view? Perfectly fine with me.
Its not because I said I disagree with your views, its because of the vindictiveness and selfishness of them.Barely Hedged wrote: »There is something wrong with it if you cant afford it. It is up to the individual to exercise constraint and to stress test their own situation to see if they can afford repayments in case many of the following life events occur over a 20/25 year period i.e. unemployment, maternity leave, interest rate hikes (rates were around 15% in 1992 - 93) etc. It is not the media or governments fault. It is a personal decision to buy a home, not an entitlement. Please do not try to remove the responsibility of an individual, making a decision individual to them.
If i hypothetically monetised the situation to a personal level - you pay a mortgage of €20k a year. Joe down the road has the same mortgage of €20k a year but is not servicing his commitments. So you go to work, earn your salary, pay taxes, pay your mortgage and then at the end of the year you stroll into your bank, withdraw €20k and knock into Joe and hand it to him. How does that situation make you feel?
some people would disagree with that,
So, when you kick all these people out of their homes, people that dont have much, ordinary people, will the same be happening to those quite well off that have substantial assets too?
And who will be servicng the costs of putting a roof over their heads? the tax payer, it might make better sense from a cost point of view to have people with no other means to stay in their homes rather than have people moving en masse and social/housing problems that would cause.
Im not talking about people that wont service their own debt, but people that cant, also, to say people should stress test the situation they might find themselves in for 25 years, is impossible.Quite a few houses in our area for around the €89k mark 3 bed semis great houses walk in condition. 40 minutes on the new motorway to get to work in Dublin. Cash buyers may snap them up but quite a few left.
where's this?? not that Im in the market, Im just curious of 89k 3 bed semi houses.0 -
Its not because I said I disagree with your views, its because of the vindictiveness and selfishness of them.
some people would disagree with that,
So, when you kick all these people out of their homes, people that dont have much, ordinary people, will the same be happening to those quite well off that have substantial assets too?
And who will be servicng the costs of putting a roof over their heads? the tax payer, it might make better sense from a cost point of view to have people with no other means to stay in their homes rather than have people moving en masse and social/housing problems that would cause.
Im not talking about people that wont service their own debt, but people that cant, also, to say people should stress test the situation they might find themselves in for 25 years, is impossible.
where's this?? not that Im in the market, Im just curious of 89k 3 bed semi houses.Its not because I said I disagree with your views, its because of the vindictiveness and selfishness of them.
Can you please explain how a decision made by one individual acting in their own interests, entering into a legally binding long term loan agreement is the government and medias fault? Some people might disagree with that, but theyre the type of people who will easily blame everybody else for a situation theyve found themselves in rather than assessing their current position and how they got there. Those type of people, i tend not to listen to because life aint easy, its hard work and if they dont apply themselves to it, how can it be somebody elses fault?
If the mortgage is unsustainable, more than likely the cost of re-housing them would be significantly lower on the basis that they dont get a like-for-like replacement
How is it not possible to stress test the situation you find yourself in over a 20/25 year period? Income protection, extrapolating pay rises, factoring in interest rate rises. Theres calculators online for this. As most of the burden of a mortgage falls in the first 10-15 years, thats a much shorter time line to asses your finances over.0 -
Guys sorry if this doesnt fit the thread, but i moved up here from limerick 9 months ago, im only 26 buy always dream about owning my own home.... but basically my question is houses in dublin are pretty high for something bog standard and im just wondering y dont people look to live 45min- 1hr outside dublin when house hunting?? maybe people do i dnt no but it just seems that that for the money we spend is gtting us something average where maybe out in the country a bit ud fair alot better!!0
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Guys sorry if this doesnt fit the thread, but i moved up here from limerick 9 months ago, im only 26 buy always dream about owning my own home.... but basically my question is houses in dublin are pretty high for something bog standard and im just wondering y dont people look to live 45min- 1hr outside dublin when house hunting?? maybe people do i dnt no but it just seems that that for the money we spend is gtting us something average where maybe out in the country a bit ud fair alot better!!
A payoff between location and space. Some people value one over the other and as Dublin prices are on average higher than Naas/Navan for example, the majority value location. Therein lies the price differences0 -
Guys sorry if this doesnt fit the thread, but i moved up here from limerick 9 months ago, im only 26 buy always dream about owning my own home.... but basically my question is houses in dublin are pretty high for something bog standard and im just wondering y dont people look to live 45min- 1hr outside dublin when house hunting?? maybe people do i dnt no but it just seems that that for the money we spend is gtting us something average where maybe out in the country a bit ud fair alot better!!
For me it is the commute into the city centre for work. I have friends who bought during the boom and are living 30-60 mins outside Dublin, thats no traffic in a car. The commute for a lot of them is a nightmare, they could regularly be spending up to 4 hours commuting each day! Horrible quality of life imo. If I worked in somewhere like Naas I would gladly live there.
Another big reason is simply that a lot of people want to live near where they grew up?0 -
Actually my buying power gets more and more. As I said I am happy renting in a leafy D6 location. But I am also looking and if something comes up in the areas I want, then I will try and buy it. I am not looking for a family type home as I do not have a family yet, so any SCD or nice Northside area increases don't upset me.
I am also far from angry, I have never been in debt and I have enjoyed very much the last few years and I am happy for prices to go up a bit before I buy as it will give me confidence that I would not succumb to NE like the rest of the boom generation.
I wasn't part of the boom, I didn't need handouts during the bust and I am part of the solution to the problems in Ireland (I have a really good tech job). So understand the context of my ranting on here or seeya later.
Your buying power increasing has nothing to do with savvy finances and wisdom of the market. You got a promotion that pays you more. Good for you and you should be proud. Unfortunately it comes across as arrogance in your posts or you are quite happy to actually be arrogant. Property will still cost you more because you waited.
I have been working in IT a lot longer than you and probably well a head of where you are at this stage. Will you keep getting promoted and boosting your income? Unlikely. If you can scale up so quickly are you going to stay ahead of all the people below you. Are your skills going to remain valued. I have seen developers incomes drop massively as there skills become common place and they don't stay ahead of the next trend. You could make really good money as web developer at one point and now you can pick up a web page for a couple of hundred that used to sell for thousands.
I was part of the boom generation and never had an issue. There are plenty like me out there. Just because you have a tech job doesn't mean you understand the context. It doesn't even sound like you understand your own industry. You are an employee in a company and unless it is an Irish one you are part of the problem not the solution. Even if it is Irish unless you are actually producing something new and innovative you aren't much help either.0 -
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youcancallmeal wrote: »For me it is the commute into the city centre for work. I have friends who bought during the boom and are living 30-60 mins outside Dublin, thats no traffic in a car. The commute for a lot of them is a nightmare, they could regularly be spending up to 4 hours commuting each day! Horrible quality of life imo. If I worked in somewhere like Naas I would gladly live there.
Another big reason is simply that a lot of people want to live near where they grew up?
Yeah remember the ads that said Dunshaughlin was 20 mins from Dublin.
My brother lives there and with no traffic at 9pm going full speed it takes 30 mins to get there just from the M50. If you call the M50 Dublin anywhere is commutable (is that even a word). Its from the M50 in thats the time sink.0 -
Ray Palmer wrote: »Your buying power increasing has nothing to do with savvy finances and wisdom of the market. You got a promotion that pays you more. Good for you and you should be proud. Unfortunately it comes across as arrogance in your posts or you are quite happy to actually be arrogant. Property will still cost you more because you waited.
I have been working in IT a lot longer than you and probably well a head of where you are at this stage. Will you keep getting promoted and boosting your income? Unlikely. If you can scale up so quickly are you going to stay ahead of all the people below you. Are your skills going to remain valued. I have seen developers incomes drop massively as there skills become common place and they don't stay ahead of the next trend. You could make really good money as web developer at one point and now you can pick up a web page for a couple of hundred that used to sell for thousands.
I was part of the boom generation and never had an issue. There are plenty like me out there. Just because you have a tech job doesn't mean you understand the context. It doesn't even sound like you understand your own industry. You are an employee in a company and unless it is an Irish one you are part of the problem not the solution. Even if it is Irish unless you are actually producing something new and innovative you aren't much help either.
Nice feeble attempt at patronizing there, oh wise one. (and oh so wrong)0 -
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dinnyirwin wrote: »How much is that commute in money terms to Dublin.
How many Kms?
Hi its working out at €6.97 each way fuel costs and then there's the toll each way which is €3 so €18 per day, €90 a week. 43kms from Navan to Blanchardstown Dublin in 36 minutes.0 -
Thats over 100000 euro over the course of a 25 year mortgage and thats just fuel, and assumes it will never go up. Talk about a false economy.Hi its working out at €6.97 each way fuel costs and then there's the toll each way which is €3 so €18 per day, €90 a week. 43kms from Navan to Blanchardstown Dublin in 36 minutes.0 -
Its not because I said I disagree with your views, its because of the vindictiveness and selfishness of them.
some people would disagree with that,
So, when you kick all these people out of their homes, people that dont have much, ordinary people, will the same be happening to those quite well off that have substantial assets too?
And who will be servicng the costs of putting a roof over their heads? the tax payer, it might make better sense from a cost point of view to have people with no other means to stay in their homes rather than have people moving en masse and social/housing problems that would cause.
Im not talking about people that wont service their own debt, but people that cant, also, to say people should stress test the situation they might find themselves in for 25 years, is impossible.
where's this?? not that Im in the market, Im just curious of 89k 3 bed semi houses.
http://www.daft.ie/1744396
http://m.myhome.ie/for-sale/brochure/2716542
http://m.myhome.ie/for-sale/brochure/2646036
http://www.daft.ie/1740947
http://m.myhome.ie/for-sale/brochure/2651873
Plenty more around the €100k mark0 -
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Hi its working out at €6.97 each way fuel costs and then there's the toll each way which is €3 so €18 per day, €90 a week. 43kms from Navan to Blanchardstown Dublin in 36 minutes.
Not a bad price each way. I would add wear and tear to that but thats hard to work out. Buy an electric car and you would cut that cost by a lot too. Probably down to €0,50 in fuel costs each way.
I was sceptical, but I can see how it works out for you when you are working in Blanch.0 -
Thats over 100000 euro over the course of a 25 year mortgage and thats just fuel, and assumes it will never go up. Talk about a false economy.
It is even worse when you consider driving that distance increase your dangers of an accident. I also would doubt the time consistently being so low.
One thing you can be sure of the costs of running a car will go up consistently.
It really isn't a social option many people would be willing make from friends and family if they are from Dublin0 -
Ray Palmer wrote: »It is even worse when you consider driving that distance increase your dangers of an accident. I also would doubt the time consistently being so low.
One thing you can be sure of the costs of running a car will go up consistently.
It really isn't a social option many people would be willing make from friends and family if they are from Dublin
It's using the motorway though so probably consistent enough with the estimated time google maps give.0 -
It's using the motorway though so probably consistent enough with the estimated time google maps give.
Motorways aren't magic. They snarl up pretty regularly and things like the weather also reduce travel times. I just don't buy it as a consistent time.
I worked with a guy who claimed his commute was 30 minutes yet my travel time was also 30 minutes. I would pass him on my way to work and he would arrive a good 20minutes after me. He still maintained his commute was 30 minutes to Dublin. Changing the goal posts. Does this guy own a house straight on the motorway and his job is also straight on the motorway?0 -
It's great actually, I have got promoted, cashed some shares and saved another 14k. My mortgage approval is now a lot more than before.
I was interested in a few areas that have since gone up in value but to be honest I was never really committed to them as they had a e3k service charge.
Of course I am disappointed that waves of repossessions never happened and I understand now that I can't do a lot about government intervention in the property market so I may as well join in and actively pursue purchasing now. So yeah, I guess I've jumped off the fence.
It's pretty exciting but I am in a great rental now in a leafy part of D6 so I am happy to wait it out until I find something I like, rather than panic into buying a shoebox, even if it will rise in price.
So all in all it's working out great! I have to say though that it's not my main concern, rather it's a side project for me, I am enjoying my career too much to worry about it all!
I cringe for you.0 -
Quite a few houses in our area for around the €89k mark 3 bed semis great houses walk in condition. 40 minutes on the new motorway to get to work in Dublin. Cash buyers may snap them up but quite a few left.
So the best thing about the area is the ability to get on the motorway !! I take it very little job opportunities in the area so. Are people really going to start this commuting malarkey again ??0 -
Personally, we have been watching the market for about 3 years and seriously looking for about 6 months. We rent now and will want to start a family soon.
We would really like to stay in South Dublin. I actually think prices here will still come down. It's very difficult to get an accurate price. There's just not much sense in the market right now. In one area, the seller of a 2 bed apartment could be trying to get the same price as a 3 bed house. Also, there's seems to be a lot of big, detached houses for sale at prices close enough to semi-detached smaller estate houses, within 100-150 k. This seems to indicate that the latter is over-priced.
I think the hype now being put out by the media is just making sellers over-inflate their prices. I'm seeing some ridiculous prices for houses in D12 and D6W. I'm also seeing prices of houses increasing upwards to 30%, when no one wanted them 1 or 2 years ago, they were taken off the market and are now up for sale again.
If, as some on here say, people are advertising houses, but not actually intending to sell, then this will only lead to a downfall in prices. They'll be 'really' putting their houses on the market when there's more supply. If people are going to get deals under insolvency, this will lead to more houses being released. I'd wonder too if the post codes in 2015 are going to bring down the value of some of the more prestigious areas.
I'd never let an estate agent cajole me into paying more for a house either. I'd never get into a bidding war, especially since I could take or leave all of the houses on the market right now. There'll be a house eventually.
There will be dips in the market but Dublin will remain strong . Know your area and buy in the dip. There won't be a TV and to tell you when there is a dip. If the property is what you want all things considered make the offer. Just take away another years rent from the price if you are unsure see what the price looks like then .0 -
handlemaster wrote: »So the best thing about the area is the ability to get on the motorway !! I take it very little job opportunities in the area so. Are people really going to start this commuting malarkey again ??
Never said the motorway was the best thing. Im born and bred here but have friends that moved up here and work in Dublin and they love it. Great schools, plenty of things to do , cinemas, leisure centres, gyms, great restaurants, shops etc0 -
handlemaster wrote: »There will be dips in the market but Dublin will remain strong . Know your area and buy in the dip. There won't be a TV and to tell you when there is a dip. If the property is what you want all things considered make the offer. Just take away another years rent from the price if you are unsure see what the price looks like then .
It's not just a year's rent, it's the cost of negative equity should the Dublin prices drop again. If you take out a mortgage for a house that in a year decreases in value by 40,000 you will pay almost double through mortgage interest. Essentially, throwing 65-70,000 down the drain.
It seems since the media started to talk about Dublin's great return, some EAs rose prices far more than the % of price increase stated for Dublin in 2013.
The changing to post codes, the recent emerging markets crises, the potential for house repossessions/debt deals and the re-start of Dublin building could see house prices drop here again. I also do not think that the emerging generation of Irish first-time house buyers are going to be so mad for property as older generations.
I think paying 350,000+ for a mid-terrace kip is an astronomical price.
My instincts told me the boom prices were unsustainable - personally, I don't know how anyone could think that apartments were going to retain the value of those boom prices. I will trust my instincts again on this one.0 -
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I doubt they are going to drop back to the level that they have been recently. If anything I think they over shot on the way down just as much as they did on the way up, in my area at least. I live in Inchicore and a large number of livable 2 bed houses sold for €70-80k in the 2011/12/early 13. Lately they are selling for at least €110-130k. I think that's about a 60% increase based on anecdotal evidence.
I can't comment on other areas but I think €110k is still good value for here considering transport links, proximity to city centre, good community atmosphere etc. 110k is around 500pm with a 10% deposit. Seems reasonable and like it should level out around that level or a little bit higher.0
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