Talk to forums........

frag420

I hope I am in the right place for this..........

It seems that a lot of companies are using boards as a way to reach out and help with customers complaints. Many are more than helpfull but this thread got me thinking http://www.boards.ie/ttfthread/2057077031

So on the above thread we have four members from Eircom effectively asking the OP for his personal details which he has supplied previously. When asked a question they seem to ignore parts and answer the parts they want. In my view this is not customer service. It seems to me that these comapnies use the generic and overused "pm me your details" reply as a way of maintaining a good reply percentage.

So my suggestion is lets have customer satisfaction percentage where we can see if the customer is satisfied with the responce and outcome of their complaint. I know Boards get paid for having these companies on the site but as a community site albeit a commercial enterprise would it not be better to keep the community happy? I know satisfaction is down to the individual and what they percieve it to be but from the above thread and many other similar threads one can assume that the OP's are not getting a satisfactory outcome or service?

Just an idea and looking forward to hearing peoples thoughts on this........

frAg

aidan_walsh

CSAT is very much a double edged sword, and something that every company manages differently. I doubt that Boards would be able to put together a package that would be able to suit everyone, unless they were to allow companies to PM CSAT surveys to thread starters.

Mr Simpson

Send a csat by PM once someone has started a thread. Not a be all and end all, but it would be a good indicator

Pawwed Rig

It would depend if the companies actually wanted it though which I doubt they would unless they had a similar survey for their other 'customer service' avenues.

The thread the OP links to is a shocking display of customer service (imho) but probably is not unusual. I find these most useful when deciding on what companies I sign contracts with. A brief scroll through 20 pages on the company and look at how they deal with the issues is a very good indication on how good or bad your experience will be. In fact the talk to fora were the primary reason I changed my mobile phone provider.

nesf

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

It would depend if the companies actually wanted it though which I doubt they would unless they had a similar survey for their other 'customer service' avenues.

The thread the OP links to is a shocking display of customer service (imho) but probably is not unusual. I find these most useful when deciding on what companies I sign contracts with. A brief scroll through 20 pages on the company and look at how they deal with the issues is a very good indication on how good or bad your experience will be. In fact the talk to fora were the primary reason I changed my mobile phone provider.

There's a flip side to it too though, the reps on these forums often have their hands completely tied once you mention certain problems or issues (e.g. billing disputes is not their pay grade to be making calls on). You could easily have people doing their best but they themselves stuck waiting on someone further up the chain to get back to them before they can give a good answer to the customer. I've known people working in technical support for quite a few major companies and in all cases if a problem would cost more than X to resolve on the spot they had to pass it up the chain or tell someone that someone more senior would get back to them etc.

The company can often look like they're giving someone the run around but usually it's got nothing to do with the reps who are being paid to fight fires but aren't being given buckets or hoses.

Pawwed Rig

nesf wrote: »

The company can often look like they're giving someone the run around but usually it's got nothing to do with the reps who are being paid to fight fires but aren't being given buckets or hoses.

Sure I realise this and have no problem with the reps on any of the fora (didn't mean to sound like I did). Similarly I have no beef with call centre agents at the end of the phone. But if I have a problem that I need sorted I want it sorted with a little hassle for me as possible so I will go with whichever company seems to be the best from that perspective.

Lovely Bloke

nesf wrote: »

There's a flip side to it too though, the reps on these forums often have their hands completely tied once you mention certain problems or issues (e.g. billing disputes is not their pay grade to be making calls on). You could easily have people doing their best but they themselves stuck waiting on someone further up the chain to get back to them before they can give a good answer to the customer. I've known people working in technical support for quite a few major companies and in all cases if a problem would cost more than X to resolve on the spot they had to pass it up the chain or tell someone that someone more senior would get back to them etc.

The company can often look like they're giving someone the run around but usually it's got nothing to do with the reps who are being paid to fight fires but aren't being given buckets or hoses.

What a cop-out.

Did you even read the thread linked?


The treatment of the poster in that thread is horrifically disrespectful.

Is there anyone in Distilled who even looks at how those TalkTo forums run. I already know the answer.

If the Stats provided in those forums are based on responses like that poster got, then they are meaningless, and actually are lies.

It shouldn't be allowed to happen on this platform, but it's all good.

Now go away and stop complaining, it's not our fault.

Mr. G

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

What a cop-out.

Did you even read the thread linked?


The treatment of the poster in that thread is horrifically disrespectful.

Is there anyone in Distilled who even looks at how those TalkTo forums run. I already know the answer.

If the Stats provided in those forums are based on responses like that poster got, then they are meaningless, and actually are lies.

It shouldn't be allowed to happen on this platform, but it's all good.

Now go away and stop complaining, it's not our fault.

It isn't Boards.ie's fault either. A company can have so many departments so it is hard for the Eircom reps to cover everything. The complaints team may not be allowed to comment on the issue, due to DPA concerns.

I still prefer to contact a company through Boards, rather than email. It is hard enough to even find an email address for Eircom.

LoLth

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

What a cop-out.

Did you even read the thread linked?


The treatment of the poster in that thread is horrifically disrespectful.

Is there anyone in Distilled who even looks at how those TalkTo forums run. I already know the answer.

If the Stats provided in those forums are based on responses like that poster got, then they are meaningless, and actually are lies.

It shouldn't be allowed to happen on this platform, but it's all good.

Now go away and stop complaining, it's not our fault.

I sometimes wonder, do you just come to this site to punish yourself? You seem to despise the site, everyone who works for it, everyone who volunteers and over 50% of those who post.

why keep coming back when it obviously annoys you so much that you feel you *have* to post about it at any opportunity.

I get that some people feel a need to criticise and I appreciate feedback that is constructive as it helps us provide a better community for the users but for quite a long time your feedback has been negative only , directly confrontational with anyone that has not instantly agreed with you or jumped to do things the way you want them done. So I'm curious, why do you keep coming back and why do you honestly believe that , given your consistent level of sniping/sideways digs/passive-aggressive posting should anyone on the staff or admin teams should actually respect your opinion?

On topic:
I agree that thread is ridiculous and it really does not paint Eircom in a good light at all. (I moved away from eircom years ago because of their terrible customer service, just like I moved away from Vodafone).

I'm not actually sure what the agreement with the company is as far as response rates / customer satisfaction goes for a talk to forum. The Eircom forum does seem to use some form of notification system for new posts / replies and certainly the OP seemed to have gotten farther with the talk to forum that he did on the phone - the first issue was sorted out but then the update email got sent and things went quickly downhill.

I quite like the idea of a boards.ie side customer satisfaction survey, maybe an option for the customer to mark a thread "resolved" from their side and write a comment visible only to themselves and boards.ie staff (and anonymously in a report to the account manager at the company owning the talk to forum? - sanitised of course!).

I'll point Niamh at this thread. She'd have the most insight into what is and is not agreed / acceptable / feasible.

nesf

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

What a cop-out.

Did you even read the thread linked?

Yes, and I'm saying this is a natural consequence of companies tying their reps hands and not placing people with actual decision making power in the front lines but hiding them behind a screen of people.

I didn't say I approve of it, I'm just surprised people are surprised by this.

Boards.ie: Niamh

Just a quick note to say that I have not forgotten/ignored this thread; I shall post properly in the morning. Thanks

frag420

I think at the very least the OP's on the various threads in the Talk To forums should have a right to reply and much like on adverts leave positive or negative feedback based on the outcome. With every thread they should be given the opportunity to answer a few questions about the process and if tey are satisfied with both the service and outcome.

For instance if like in the thread I linked to the OP is asked several times to PM their details then that for me would result in negative feedback. If like in several other threads that questions are asked openly by the op as to why certain actions are happening/not happening and these are blatently ignored but other aspects are replied to then that would garner negative feedback. It will be obvious to people reding the thread if this is warrented or not.

For companies to have a public profile here that in many cases serves to just frustrate the complaints procedure while using certain tactics to show of a great reply time/percentage is a complete sham and a mockery of customer service!!

P_1

I'd hazard a guess that some companies who have 'Talk-to' forums have possibly implemented the same staff training (and constraints) that they use for their call center staff for the staff who man the forum. Basically for each new call (or post on a thread) they have to ask the same KYC questions which people are used to dealing with when they call a call center but wouldn't expect on a 'Talk-to' forum. I wonder if a sticky pointing this out on each forum might help solve the confusion?

frag420

P_1 wrote: »

I'd hazard a guess that some companies who have 'Talk-to' forums have possibly implemented the same staff training (and constraints) that they use for their call center staff for the staff who man the forum. Basically for each new call (or post on a thread) they have to ask the same KYC questions which people are used to dealing with when they call a call center but wouldn't expect on a 'Talk-to' forum. I wonder if a sticky pointing this out on each forum might help solve the confusion?

Thats all fair and good but if the equivalent to being asked for your details four times in a phone call by four different people!! Would you consider that good customer service? I sure as hell would not!!

P_1

frag420 wrote: »

Thats all fair and good but if the equivalent to being asked for your details four times in a phone call by four different people!! Would you consider that good customer service? I sure as hell would not!!

True but I don't think the companies class the one thread as one long phone call. Rather each separate post as an individual one. Plus Data Protection means that they need to open a new ticket for each call which means they have to ask for the KYC stuff with each update. A username on Boards doesn't really cut it to keep things legal under data protection law.

Pawwed Rig

P_1 wrote: »

A username on Boards doesn't really cut it to keep things legal under data protection law.

I don't know about that. I've had issues on the Talk To forums that took a few weeks to resolve and I only had to provide my details on the initial query.

P_1

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

I don't know about that. I've had issues on the Talk To forums that took a few weeks to resolve and I only had to provide my details on the initial query.

Fair point, possibly depends on the company. I have noticed that the bigger the company the more (for lack of a better term) anal they tend to be about KYC.

frag420

P_1 wrote: »

True but I don't think the companies class the one thread as one long phone call. Rather each separate post as an individual one. Plus Data Protection means that they need to open a new ticket for each call which means they have to ask for the KYC stuff with each update. A username on Boards doesn't really cut it to keep things legal under data protection law.

Well then by that logic the OP in the post I linked to above had to make........wait for it.........wait for it...........20 phone calls and it is still not resolved having spoken to FOUR different customer care reps each starting with the generic send me your details and I will look into this for you bullish!t!!

This is not customer care!!

Boards.ie: Niamh

We've been talking about this a bit in the office this morning. This should address the main questions asked.

Reps asking members to PM details
Private messages are private, so if you PM your details to Rep A, Rep B won't have them. We introduced the idea of a Group PM inbox so that all correspondence went via that and this helped alleviate this somewhat.
However, there were some inconsistencies on our end with how this worked, so just this week Alvis rolled out a change that means all correspondence to and from any rep is copied to the "Group PM" account for the forum, so all information will be easier to get.

Customer service agreements
We do not have customer service agreements with Talk To forum clients. We supply them with a service - a platform (Talk to forum) on Boards, we give them training in how to use it and we advise on how to make the best use of it for their business needs.
Most of the companies who sign up for a Talk to Forum have been providing customer service on other platforms for many years; however when there are any difficulties translating that experience to Boards.ie, we would often go over these issues together when we meet with their teams.

Gathering customer feedback
There are very few reliable and fair methods we could employ to gather real customer feedback that would not be open to abuse. If members want to know about a company, they can read their forum, the answers given and what people have to say about them there. This is one of the biggest benefits of the Talk Tos, people get to see how a company deals with its customers' problems before deciding if they want to do business with them.

frag420

Boards.ie: Niamh wrote: »

We've been talking about this a bit in the office this morning. This should address the main questions asked.

Reps asking members to PM details
Private messages are private, so if you PM your details to Rep A, Rep B won't have them. We introduced the idea of a Group PM inbox so that all correspondence went via that and this helped alleviate this somewhat.
However, there were some inconsistencies on our end with how this worked, so just this week Alvis rolled out a change that means all correspondence to and from any rep is copied to the "Group PM" account for the forum, so all information will be easier to get.

This a great idea and something that should eleviate some of the issues outlined. However having multiple people dealing with the one issue has to be addressed too. Now I know there may be valid reasons such as absenteeism or someone has left the company in question. But to have four different people trying to deal with the same issue is unacceptable and unprofesional! I think that the reply %'s should refelct this too.

Boards.ie: Niamh wrote: »

Customer service agreements
We do not have customer service agreements with Talk To forum clients. We supply them with a service - a platform (Talk to forum) on Boards, we give them training in how to use it and we advise on how to make the best use of it for their business needs.
Most of the companies who sign up for a Talk to Forum have been providing customer service on other platforms for many years; however when there are any difficulties translating that experience to Boards.ie, we would often go over these issues together when we meet with their teams.

Boards.ie: Niamh wrote: »

Gathering customer feedback
There are very few reliable and fair methods we could employ to gather real customer feedback that would not be open to abuse. If members want to know about a company, they can read their forum, the answers given and what people have to say about them there. This is one of the biggest benefits of the Talk Tos, people get to see how a company deals with its customers' problems before deciding if they want to do business with them.

There are few and reliable methods, you are correct. However may I suggest a moderating service much like in adverts. Now I know that moderators do an awesome job here, one that is unpaid and unapreciated by many but if someone was to moderate in an inpartial way so that if the OP were to leave a comment stating that they were unhappy with the service or commitment by the rep to sorting out the issue that the moderator could view that in the context of the thread and make a jusgement call as to whether the comment was justified. In bargain alerts you can see if a bargain alert is over on the main page. How about on the main page for each companies forum we can see if the issue has been reslved satisfactorally (green smiley) or not satisfactoally (red unhappy smiley). Surely if each company is hapy with the level of customer service they provide then they should have no issue with this??

Mr Simpson

The one thing I'd say to that frag, and this isn't specific to you or anyone else. But, how do you guage satisfactory resolution.

Imo, and contrary to popular belief, the customer isn't always right. The customer should always come first in customer service, but sometimes the customer is just wrong/and or has unrealistic expectations, should these be resolved as unsatisfactory?

A big red smiley appearing on the home page for the company, when if somebody impartial (a potential customer) were to read the thread they may not find it unsatisfactory (but mightn't read it with the smileys)

frag420

Thats what the moderator would be there for, to decide if the outcome is satisfactory and the rating justified? I am not suggesting its a perfect solution but I think there has to be some way of gauging if a company is doing right by the customer and in the case of the thread highlighted in my op we can all see that the level of customer service is shocking!!

Maybe it could go a way to make the companies act in the interests of good customer service.

Mr Simpson

frag420 wrote: »

Thats what the moderator would be there for, to decide if the outcome is satisfactory and the rating justified? I am not suggesting its a perfect solution but I think there has to be some way of gauging if a company is doing right by the customer and in the case of the thread highlighted in my op we can all see that the level of customer service is shocking!!

Maybe it could go a way to make the companies act in the interests of good customer service.

An impartial moderator would not be privvy to a lot of details of cases due to Data protection though, how could they in a position to guage responses

frag420

You can see from the thread I linked to that we are not privy to some details but we can all agree that the level of service was terrible. We will know the type of details as per the pub obi request but not the intricacies of the details. All we need to know is that if details are requested via pm by either party that they are forwarded and received.

Mr Simpson

frag420 wrote: »

You can see from the thread I linked to that we are not privy to some details but we can all agree that the level of service was terrible. We will know the type of details as per the pub obi request but not the intricacies of the details. All we need to know is that if details are requested via pm by either party that they are forwarded and received.

In a lot of cases, yes you're correct its obvious. But in plenty its not. The pm's mightn't just be names and account details, they're not the only things that are covered by DPA. I do this on a daily basis for a very very large company, a lot of the stuff I deal with could never be discussed on a public forum, you could only post the general stuff which would give you no idea whats going on. Its not as clear cut as that unfortunately.

Steve

frag420 wrote: »

There are few and reliable methods, you are correct. However may I suggest a moderating service much like in adverts.

Adverts is not really different to the other talk-to forums.

As a mod there (on the talk-to forum), I can moderate discussions and ensure they remain civil but any 'hard' questions are deferred to staff members to answer as they see fit.

The idea of forcing an answer out of a company in their own forum by a third party moderator is untenable in the immediate future imo.

frag420

Its not so much about forcing an answer from them, more like requiring them to act in a way that is befitting of the term customer service!!

Steve

I don't see a difference really.

Either way requires "forcing" them to answer in public rather than deal with a matter in private with their customer.

I'm not saying one option is better, this is worthy of debate.