Riello burner problem

cruiser202006

Riello 40 burner problem this evening! Motor and fan running fine solenoid clicks on and burner runs fine for a minute then stops for a second then starts and so on! Ruled out control box and photocell! Am I looking at a problem in fuel pump?

jimf

what pressure are you getting at fuel pump

how did you check control box and photocell

cruiser202006

jimf wrote: »

what pressure are you getting at fuel pump

how did you check control box and photocell

I'm gettin 8 bar at fuel pump. Checked wit a new control box and photocell and problem is persisting

jimf

cruiser202006 wrote: »

I'm gettin 8 bar at fuel pump. Checked wit a new control box and photocell and problem is persisting

did you check the nozzle

agusta

Id agree with jim,It could be a partially blocked nozzle.It seems like the fan could be blowing out the flame.You could lower the air on the air box and see does it run better.It would have to be set up with a flue gas analyser to get it right.You should fit a new nozzle if you dont have a new one fitted

cruiser202006

jimf wrote: »

did you check the nozzle

Brand new nozzle! Burner hasn't burnt a tank of oil in 3 years and hasn't been serviced since installed 9 years ago! Problem could be happening for a while as there an old couple and probably never noticed. Can't seperate solenoid from needle valve as nut is seized on top and needle valve and nut are spinning together! Had neither a solenoid or pump for old riello in van to try

jimf

what kind of boiler is this burner fitted to any chance you have a flugas recycling issue going on

have you checked filters at tank and pump

how about condition oil did you check for water contamination

agusta

cruiser202006 wrote: »

Brand new nozzle! Burner hasn't burnt a tank of oil in 3 years and hasn't been serviced since installed 9 years ago! Problem could be happening for a while as there an old couple and probably never noticed. Can't seperate solenoid from needle valve as nut is seized on top and needle valve and nut are spinning together! Had neither a solenoid or pump for old riello in van to try

It either a lack of fuel or over aired.It best sort out the the needle valve and see is it opening fully.wd 40 would help you free the nut

cruiser202006

Thanks lads. Calling back tomorro wit a pump so I'll drop the air on it first to see if it solves de problem.

jimf

also make sure you no obstruction in the flue or flueways through the boiler if it hasn't been serviced in 9 years jaysus you could find anything in there

DGOBS

+1 on recycling, is it an outdoor module, what boiler?
Is there any fluctuation on the oil pressure leading up to the lockout (could be blocked filter or fire valve so starvation of fuel)

shane0007

For a fuel supply issue, check the fuel pump with a vacuum gauge. If it starts pulling negative pressure, it's a supply issue.

TPM

I was at a boiler before christmas that in their words "untill now never gave any trouble" my translation "was never serviced"
Similar symptoms to op, but the cause was the boiler being blocked solid with soot and crap from years of decreasing combustion efficiency.

DGOBS

You should be able to hear the pump under duress easy enough if a supply issue and see it on the pressure gauge, can't even remember last time I had to pull out the vacuum gauge

agusta

jimf wrote: »

also make sure you no obstruction in the flue or flueways through the boiler if it hasn't been serviced in 9 years jaysus you could find anything in there

+1

jimf

TPM wrote: »

I was at a boiler before christmas that in their words "untill now never gave any trouble" my translation "was never serviced"
Similar symptoms to op, but the cause was the boiler being blocked solid with soot and crap from years of decreasing combustion efficiency.

they can take some abuse in fairness

shane0007

DGOBS wrote: »

You should be able to hear the pump under duress easy enough if a supply issue and see it on the pressure gauge, can't even remember last time I had to pull out the vacuum gauge

Just a simple tool to 100% confirm a supply issue over a pump issue. I generally find fuel pump flicker issues can be from both supply & pump issues, so the vacuum just nails it.

TPM

jimf wrote: »

they can take some abuse in fairness

thats the biggest problem with them, they just keep going so people forget about them and tent to assume they dont need servicing, I generally ask them would you expect your car to go for "5" years with out servicing of maintenance, Usually gets a nice facial expression

Wearb

jimf wrote: »

also make sure you no obstruction in the flue or flueways through the boiler if it hasn't been serviced in 9 years jaysus you could find anything in there

I would be inclined to go down the route of an air problem also. Either on output side or intake.

What was the make of the Boiler? Did you strip all the baffles out and check the flue-ways?

cruiser202006

Disconnected flexi hose at pump first before I put a new hose on as Old one on since installation plus thought it was being starved of oil but deres a good flow. Gonna lower de air first and see if it solves de problem and take it from there.

cruiser202006

Wearb wrote: »

I would be inclined to go down the route of an air problem also. Either on output side or intake.

What was the make of the Boiler? Did you strip all the baffles out and check the flue-ways?

It's a firebird 70/90 heatpac model baffles combustion chamber and flue all cleaned and checked

jimf

cruiser202006 wrote: »

It's a firebird 70/90 heatpac model baffles combustion chamber and flue all cleaned and checked

is your issue happening with the door on and off

shane0007

cruiser202006 wrote: »

Disconnected flexi hose at pump first before I put a new hose on as Old one on since installation plus thought it was being starved of oil but deres a good flow. Gonna lower de air first and see if it solves de problem and take it from there.

If it's an air issue (combustion issue), it would show on your FGA. If it's a re-circulation issue, this would show only when door is on or the FGA would also assist inside the casing. If the door is off & the issue still arises, it is unlikely to be a re-circulation issue.

cruiser202006

Door is off when problem is occurring! Didn't put the analyser on it but will put it on it tomorro.

Wearb

cruiser202006 wrote: »

It's a firebird 70/90 heatpac model baffles combustion chamber and flue all cleaned and checked

Did you check the tank for water or/and dirt? Was the pump filter clean? Nothing floating around the air-box? Otherwise you are left with the few things that you haven't managed to replace.

jimf

had 1 like this last year fuel pump was slipping

but was showing on p gauge as fluctuating pressure but was engaging again so not going to lockout

cruiser202006

Air box and filters clean! Pump isn't fluctuating! Staying at a constant 8 bar!

DGOBS

Check for a flue gas leak either between the burner and mounting flange, or the door gasket directly above the the burner, if a bad on can recycle even with cabinet door off

Set your o2 to 5.5% make sure it isn't over aired

scudo2

cruiser202006 wrote: »

Air box and filters clean! Pump isn't fluctuating! Staying at a constant 8 bar!

Bad nozzle or crack across control box where electrodes connect = no spark at nozzle ?

EDIT . Sorry I forgot you already tried a different box.

jimf

did you get this sorted today

cruiser202006

jimf wrote: »

did you get this sorted today

Got sorted after thanks! Overaired! Simple fix! Cheers for de help!

shane0007

cruiser202006 wrote: »

Got sorted after thanks! Overaired! Simple fix! Cheers for de help!

If it was over-aired, it was a combustion issue so did you not spot it when you first flue gas analyised it? This would have showed up immediately.

cruiser202006

shane0007 wrote: »

If it was over-aired, it was a combustion issue so did you not spot it when you first flue gas analyised it? This would have showed up immediately.

Had serviced and was warming up to do analysis when noticed problem occurring so hadn't used analyser yet but I know now for future reference

jimf

cruiser202006 wrote: »

Had serviced and was warming up to do analysis when noticed problem occurring so hadn't used analyser yet but I know now for future reference

do you not run the boiler for a few mins before service just to make sure there are no issues like this

you will meet a smart arse someday that will tell you it was working fine before you went at it and you could end up fitting parts that you wont get paid
for and believe me they are out there

DGOBS

A simple check if you come across this again, block a small portion of the air intake with your hand, and see if the problem stops, will give you a good quick indication