Denis O’Brien and Irish Water

donegal__road

donegal__road wrote: »

A water meter being installed at Whitehall, Dublin during the week..

Well there's where the wasted €2 billion will be spent.

Banjo String

Deleted User wrote: »

Well there's where the wasted €2 billion will be spent.

The gravy train just keeps on rolling for some.

While the new utility believes it will need about 1,700 staff , it has signed service level agreements with the 34 local authorities who run the Republic’s water and waste water infrastructure. As matters stand, these legal agreements, which run up to 2026, involve about 4,300 local authority staff , whose cost is to be paid by Irish Water.

While the primary purpose of establishing Irish Water is the creation of massive savings from increased efficiency, a large proportion of the potential savings have been jettisoned because of how the employee issue is being handled, Prof FitzGerald said.


Overstaffed
“It is massively overstaffed. They are being made to spend €1 billion to €2 billion more than they need to over the coming decade,” he said. He added that the issue was one politicians did not want to address.

A spokeswoman for Irish Water said the service level agreements were signed last year and continue to 2026, but the issue of the resources involved will come up for review every year.

What a complete fcuk up.

RandomName2

Banjo String wrote: »

The gravy train just keeps on rolling for some.



What a complete fcuk up.

Well they did promise jobs.

At least when people are on the dole there's some hope that they'll come off of it. Overstaffed local authorities are just going to be a burden we'll have to endure.

Remind me how this was meant to be saving us money?

Oh yeah, it wasn't, it was just meant to save the state money by increasing expenses for tax-payers. Not exactly the same thing.

SpaceTime

I wonder how realistic this project is anyway?

They're installing easy to install meters first.

Wait until they start getting to older suburban areas in Dublin, Cork etc where the pipe networks crumble when disturbed and were they won't even be able to find a stopcock as it was landscaped over in the 1960s

That's when the labour and costs will go through the roof.

In France for example, water metres are usually in the house itself. They might be in the garage or even under the kitchen sink.
They certainly don't dig up the street and disturb old cast iron pipes for the 'craic'

Banjo String

RandomName2 wrote: »

Well they did promise jobs.

At least when people are on the dole there's some hope that they'll come off of it. Overstaffed local authorities are just going to be a burden we'll have to endure.

Remind me how this was meant to be saving us money?

Oh yeah, it wasn't, it was just meant to save the state money by increasing expenses for tax-payers. Not exactly the same thing.

I hope the Irish people finally awaken and see that they are being seen as mere cash cows to fund or fix whatever fcuk ups are made by inept Govt.

It would be nice to see non payment of water bills by the public en masse. Sadly though, as seen with the HHC and LPT, we've too many hard working honest citizens in this country.

Which is more than can be said for the cronies we elect to D. E

crusher000

Augmerson wrote: »

Dunno what to make of it. Certainly pissed off. Is this all true? How come the media aren't coming out with this?

Because DOB owns most the media in this country.

donegal__road

SpaceTime wrote: »

In France for example, water metres are usually in the house itself. They might be in the garage or even under the kitchen sink.
They certainly don't dig up the street and disturb old cast iron pipes for the 'craic'

the water meters are inside the house in Canada also.

crusher000

donegal__road wrote: »

the water meters are inside the house in Canada also.

This has also to do with the low temperatures in winter as the meters may freeze over if out side thus stopping supply of water to the building. I'm sure with all the money spent on consultants they have also thought of this if Ireland ever gets a severe winter. Then again........

SpaceTime

It just makes no sense to me to go digging up roads in places where you may have serious difficultly finding the water pipes and may even cause problems by disturbing them.

They've really given themselves an almost impossible task that I've never seen anyone do anywhere else in the world.

Also, it's a huge missed opportunity to run ducts for fibre if they are going to insist on digging up every driveway in the country.

Cantona's Collars

SpaceTime wrote: »

It just makes no sense to me to go digging up roads in places where you may have serious difficultly finding the water pipes and may even cause problems by disturbing them.

They've really given themselves an almost impossible task that I've never seen anyone do anywhere else in the world.

Also, it's a huge missed opportunity to run ducts for fibre if they are going to insist on digging up every driveway in the country.

They don't dig that big a hole anyway,just about 2 foot square.They somehow managed to install mine in where the existing stopcock is without any digging,problem now is if I need to turn off the water at the mains it's nigh on impossible to access the lever as the meter is in the way.

SpaceTime

They'll have fun at my house! There's no stopcock that we can find anyway lol
I'm certainly not going looking for it either. They can find it themselves.

donegal__road

crusher000 wrote: »

This has also to do with the low temperatures in winter as the meters may freeze over if out side thus stopping supply of water to the building. I'm sure with all the money spent on consultants they have also thought of this if Ireland ever gets a severe winter. Then again........

then what about France.. I was replying to a previous post which said that the water meters were inside the buildings in France. Their climate isn't far off ours..

SpaceTime

donegal__road wrote: »

then what about France.. I was replying to a previous post which said that the water meters were inside the buildings in France. Their climate isn't far off ours..

Western France is basically the same as Ireland with a decent summer.

Banjo String

zerks wrote: »

They don't dig that big a hole anyway,just about 2 foot square.They somehow managed to install mine in where the existing stopcock is without any digging,problem now is if I need to turn off the water at the mains it's nigh on impossible to access the lever as the meter is in the way.

Be a shame if you had to knock the meter off (with a sledgehammer or something) to turn your mains off.

In an emergency or something, obviously

Banjo String

Denis must be rubbing his grubby wee hands.

bloopy

Broadsheet.ie has come out swinging after last Friday's encounter with Denis O'Brien's solicitors.

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2014/01/30/thicker-than-uisce/

Stavros Murphy

MadsL wrote: »

I'm utter unsuprised at Irish Water not keeping meeting minutes, their CEO is the same man whose planning department kept no notes of meetings with one Joe O'Reilly over the planning for the Chartered Land development at Moore Street. Despite promising an ABP Oral Hearing Inspector that they would produce the minutes, they were never forthcoming.

No names no pack drill is a John Tierney mantra.

The CFO of Chartered Land is a mate and he is the straightest man I've ever met. I'm guessing the other side might not be.

steddyeddy

Did I just hear that Idiot answer Stephen Donnelly's question with "Do you want me to sack 2000 workers?". F me but that chap is ridiculous, Tell me is it the less educated crowd that vote for these chancers?

Il Trap

Inda didn't even attempt to answer his question!! :mad:

God, what deplorable little spiv!

AngryHippie

hedgehog2 wrote: »

Am I fecking surprised no,do I feel like a royal mug being a citizen of this country YES.

In 2016 we are going to have these crooks celebrating the 100yr anniversary of the 1916 rising,if Collins and Pearse were to observe such practice those found guilty would be tried for treason.

I think that is part of the problem with the Irish mentality to be honest, politicians both present and historically get put on a pedestal, and treated as if they were some sort of demi-gods by their own supporters, which leads to a total lack of accountability. Politician gets elected, runs amok with the public finances, goes unpunished, spends a few years in the wilderness until the opposition have had their go at running amok, then get re-elected and do the same fcuking thing again.

It has been a cycle since the foundation of this country.
While I do agree that the nation was founded on the heroic actions of the few back in 1916, and that many paid the ultimate price for the sake of our self-determination, since that time, we have walked straight into a two-part, polar situation, with an occasional coalition holding the balance of power, but never effectively.

To rein these fcukwits in, the only way is to have complete oversight, or to get the people with the right expertise in to do the job.
How the fcuk can a schoolteacher be a minister for finance ?
Yes he as 20 odd years experience in Leinster house, but that makes him an experienced politician, not a financial decision maker. He gets led by the nose, either by the Troika, or the CB or whomever he deems to be the person with the plan, without ever getting a plan for his term in line with the manifesto he was elected for. That way it's just hopping from one foot to the other like a cartoon character, putting out fires and generally behaving like a bumbling idiot. I don't have a problem with him as a person, but as a MOF and cabinet member, himself, and quite a few of the other goons in there just to not have the savvy to ask the right questions to see through the lines of bullsh!te they get fed by their advisors.

Personally, I was really fond of Cowens idea for a full-time broadcast of all activity in the Dail and Seanad, every discussion, every debate, clear view of who is in attendance and what they are saying. Sure, it all gets recorded, but it is not readily accessible, we can't watch it real-time, and we are largely given the mushroom treatment by the whole lot of them.

The system is inadequate, it needs to be designed around the required outcome, which is to get 1 year ahead on planning, 5 years ahead on financing of planning, and have some KPI's, targets and public access to the debates and final input on decisions.

I'm relatively sure that Bunreacht na hEireann wouldn't be up to the job, but why should we take that off the table, especially if the end result is greater accountability, and better value for money for the taxpayer ?

shedweller

What a cancerous shower of *****. We need a People Of Ireland Union or something to represent us. Someone like Vincent Browne could head it. Someone with a bit of bite.
The majority of us are simply too busy working and doing school runs etc to be protesting every few days. Thats whats going to have to be done to topple these wasters which is why they continue.
And they jail protest organisers don't they? All sown up for themselves as usual.

shedweller

A little light reading from 2012:
http://www.swp.ie/content/denis-o-brien-why-he-attacks-left

Basically, don't expect any honest debate on his shady practices and wheelin and deelin!

Zebra3

ScumLord wrote: »

.To be fair we don't have an extremely corrupt country. It's all pretty small time financial corruption but it is systematic in this country.

You must have missed the bit where the taxpayer has got shafted with billions of euro of debts belonging to private speculators. :rolleyes:

shedweller

Zebra3 wrote: »

You must have missed the bit where the taxpayer has got shafted with billions of euro of debts belonging to private speculators. :rolleyes:

Oh yes, lets not forget that. A very slick media campaign went into top gear for that. It even crept into Boards and still persists if im not mistaken.

shedweller

Turns out the tax dodging slimy eel is a member of the trilater al comm ission.
On his wiki page is reference no.33 which i am unable to link directly to from my phone.

Sums it up really.

JuliusCaesar

Has the original comment in the journal been removed? I can't find it now.

shedweller

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

Has the original comment in the journal been removed? I can't find it now.

Ha ha! If this was a tv show we'd all be screaming at the tv telling the Irish to wake the feck up and do something!!

Steve Perchance

AngryHippie wrote: »

Personally, I was really fond of Cowens idea for a full-time broadcast of all activity in the Dail and Seanad, every discussion, every debate, clear view of who is in attendance and what they are saying. Sure, it all gets recorded, but it is not readily accessible, we can't watch it real-time, and we are largely given the mushroom treatment

This already happens. Www.oireachtas.ie broadcasts all proceedings live - transcripts of all activity are available under 'parliamentary debates' within a couple of hours.

Dempsey

Kippure wrote: »

Me to . Media...what media. There afraid to report on any thing which might upset the status flow.. afraid to report on things that cut deep to the bone.

There are no Journalist,s in Ireland anymore . The last real Journalist was Veronica Guerin. God bless her.

Denis O Brien owns half the media in this country

shedweller

Dempsey wrote: »

Denis O Brien owns half the media in this country

What half does he not own?

humanji

shedweller wrote: »

What half does he not own?

Northside People and Cat Fancy Weekly.

steddyeddy

Il Trap wrote: »

Inda didn't even attempt to answer his question!! :mad:

God, what deplorable little spiv!

The worst thing about that is the monkeys in the background chanting "You want to sack 2000 workers " to a legitimate question about money wastage. They can't answer why they locked in contracts so they start slagging the question. We are paying these guys wages and yet they don't give a sh1t about how much we as tax payers pay out

legal_lassie

so what are we gonna do? sit behind our computers and complain? cool.

generalmental

legal_lassie wrote: »

so what are we gonna do? sit behind our computers and complain? cool.

Remember when they used to call us the frightened Irish oops sorry the fighting Irish

renegademaster

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

Has the original comment in the journal been removed? I can't find it now.

please pm and let me know what the comment was all about

Stavros Murphy

Ye are wasting your breath. He's stepped past the point of caring what some eejits like us think.

humanji

generalmental wrote: »

Remember when they used to call us the frightened Irish oops sorry the fighting Irish

I don't think we were ever called the Fighting Irish. That was a name given to US civil war soldiers or something like that.

AngryHippie

humanji wrote: »

I don't think we were ever called the Fighting Irish. That was a name given to US civil war soldiers or something like that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Notre_Dame_Fighting_Irish

10/10.

generalmental

Stavros Murphy wrote: »

Dunno how this is news to anyone. Been boiling my pi55 about this for ages - absolute banana republic. Scumbaggery is the only word for it.

No no no Scumbags only wear tracksuits and have nicknames like Rasher ;-)

generalmental

Its funny reading over all that again. Come on the 10th of December.

Tail Docker

generalmental wrote: »

Its funny reading over all that again. Come on the 10th of December.

A lot of closed accounts, pity really. But interesting to read back. Still boils my pi55 though.

Gentleman Off The Pitch

This thread should be stickied to remind everyone what mugs we are!

Tinkersbell

kunst nugget wrote: »

A very innocuous piece about Irish Water protecting its pipe network had a very interesting comment that I think everyone should read about the history of Irish Water. It is a very maddening read…


So, lets see – Irish Water: a synopsis so far.

Ireland goes bankrupt and the Troika calls for more taxes.
Water meters are decided upon and a plan to build Irish Water are hatched.
Siemens, a company with massive resources and know-how in this area – and also with a massive installed base in the UK – offer to install the meters for free.

Phil Hogan declines Siemens’ offer – no answer as to why he decided this was ever forthcoming – “just, no – we have an Irish solution to this”
Both Siemens and industry analysts are baffled as to why a state would go for a far more expensive solution.

Denis O Brien, the man accused by a High Court Judge to have “beyond all doubt” bribed a FG government to gain control of a a state asset (Esat)- and to have subsequently made hundreds of millions by selling same – “purchases” a company called Siteserv which specialises in the installation of water meters.

This is about a year before the water meter tender.

Now, numerous European companies also wanted to buy Siteserv and offered way more money for the company (which then owed €100 million to Anglo Irish Bank and was completely insolvent).

The Irish Government (weirdly again FG) – (or actually you, Mr(s). Irish Taxpayer) gave the company to Denis O Brien with the €100 million owed to Anglo (now state owned – i.e. by you) written off. It’s not written off for you, the taxpayer – you still pay it – it’s just that Denis doesn’t, got it?

Some gamble for Denis to buy a company with €100 million written off and with no guarantee of a lucrative water meter contract.

A business in an area where he has no previous experience or competence.
Siteserv subsequently bids in the EU tendering process and, lo and behold, wins. The contract is for hundreds of millions of Euros.

Now, enter Irish Water.

The CEO of which used to be the financial officer of an organisation which spent €100 million of Irish taxpayer’s money on the, according to the EU, illegal process to build an incinerator in Dublin.

No incinerator was ever built or will ever be built but €100 million, again of your money, is gone – and John is now the CEO of Irish Water.

No minutes of meetings – which spent €100 million of your money were ever recorded – the money is just gone.

John then installs his homeboys and homegirls from the Poolbeg project to Irish Water – citing the abysmal salaries at Irish Water as the reason why nobody else would apply for these jobs.

People who were direct beneficiaries of the illegal Poolbegl scam are now newly fledged semi-state employees.

Paid for by you, the taxpayer – again.

Okay?
The biggest langer in this solar system is the Irish taxpayer.

This is just the latest episode of the calamity that is Ireland Inc.

We haven’t a fcuking chance – no matter who we vote for.

But, we’re great craic.

Heh heh heh"

---

Just one thing wrong with this piece.
Siteserv owed €143 million, of which €100 million was 'written off' and landed on the heads on Mr & Mrs Taxpayer.

Grayson

AngryHippie wrote: »

I think that is part of the problem with the Irish mentality to be honest, politicians both present and historically get put on a pedestal, and treated as if they were some sort of demi-gods by their own supporters, which leads to a total lack of accountability. Politician gets elected, runs amok with the public finances, goes unpunished, spends a few years in the wilderness until the opposition have had their go at running amok, then get re-elected and do the same fcuking thing again.

It has been a cycle since the foundation of this country.
While I do agree that the nation was founded on the heroic actions of the few back in 1916, and that many paid the ultimate price for the sake of our self-determination, since that time, we have walked straight into a two-part, polar situation, with an occasional coalition holding the balance of power, but never effectively.

To rein these fcukwits in, the only way is to have complete oversight, or to get the people with the right expertise in to do the job.
How the fcuk can a schoolteacher be a minister for finance ?
Yes he as 20 odd years experience in Leinster house, but that makes him an experienced politician, not a financial decision maker. He gets led by the nose, either by the Troika, or the CB or whomever he deems to be the person with the plan, without ever getting a plan for his term in line with the manifesto he was elected for. That way it's just hopping from one foot to the other like a cartoon character, putting out fires and generally behaving like a bumbling idiot. I don't have a problem with him as a person, but as a MOF and cabinet member, himself, and quite a few of the other goons in there just to not have the savvy to ask the right questions to see through the lines of bullsh!te they get fed by their advisors.

Personally, I was really fond of Cowens idea for a full-time broadcast of all activity in the Dail and Seanad, every discussion, every debate, clear view of who is in attendance and what they are saying. Sure, it all gets recorded, but it is not readily accessible, we can't watch it real-time, and we are largely given the mushroom treatment by the whole lot of them.

The system is inadequate, it needs to be designed around the required outcome, which is to get 1 year ahead on planning, 5 years ahead on financing of planning, and have some KPI's, targets and public access to the debates and final input on decisions.

I'm relatively sure that Bunreacht na hEireann wouldn't be up to the job, but why should we take that off the table, especially if the end result is greater accountability, and better value for money for the taxpayer ?

Yopu're right about the attitude people have towards politicians. Because they get elected people seem to miss the fact that we are really just hiring them on a short fixed term contract.

And because we have so many TD's there's so many publicans, teachers etc who get elected. They're large personalities in small communities. Once they're elected they start climbing the political ladder, making deals etc.. Eventually they're in cabinet posts. So we have a group of idiots in charge.

I know people hated Shatter, but he was the only one who was actually in a position he had relevant qualifications for. better than Bertie with his accountancy qualifications that he lied about.

Banjo String

Some good points made here.

It seems like someone must respond so i will do it. 
My name is Derek Byrne i am one of the Edenmore 9, I am also a part of Dublin says no. We began the water meter protests in Dublin back in February of this year when Donna Griffin put out a call for help on our Facebook page. 
Since then a simple stand has turned into a massive movement led by ordinary people who have had enough of the corrupt Political parties enforcing unnecessary pain and suffering on the people of this country. 
They call it Austerity we call it enforced poverty. This so called Austerity was applied to those of us that could least afford it and those that could afford it were spared as per usual. 
The introduction of water charges is the straw that broke the camels back. And as we have seen with the people of Ireland rising up and standing in their hundreds of thousands and demanding change and sending a clear we won`t pay water charges message. 

Today the Irish Independent owned by Dennis O`Brien (CORRUPT BILLIONAIRE) printed a story saying the movement has been infiltrated and taken over by DISSIDENT REPUBLICANS. They have tried to say that a superintendent was badly assaulted outside Coolock Garda station the other night when a protest was held outside the station. 
If you look at all the videos of the protest, you will see the superintendent walking in and out of the crowd. The worse thing that happened to him was i called him a sergeant and maybe burst his ego. But the super remained safe and well as unlike the gardai we do not respond to incitement. 

The Independent tried to state that missiles were thrown at the gardai and the police station. If this is true where is the evidence ? 

The evening herald had a reporter onsite at the protest. He didn`t report anything the day before when he got the story out. Sure the Gardai attempted to seize his camera as he may have gotten the gardai acting inappropriately.
What does that say ? 

The Independent also says a detective had her car window smashed. Again we have seen no evidence of this. And yet again there was a lot of reporters present and photographers. And not one image. 
If any of what the RAG INDEPENDENT had written well there would be video or pictures online. 
There is none and yet again another Denis O`Brien RAG has attempted to slate the people of this country. 

We will no longer be giving interviews at protests to these Rag Newspapers owned by Denis O`Brien. They have gotten away for to long hiding the truth and distorting it with lies. 
The various water meter pages are your media. They report the truth of what is happening in this country. They are free to read and do not go towards keeping a parasitic Corrupt Billionaire in the lifestyle he lives. 
The Irish Independent has again attempted to destroy a peoples movement with Bull**** and lies. 
Now it is time for you to get the message out and to bring Denis O`Briens empire to it`s knees and BOYCOTT THE INDEPENDENT AND THE EVENING HERALD. 

Regards 
Derek James Byrne 
Anti Austerity Campaigner and pain in the Governments backside

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=997103893649451&id=850647988295043&ref=bookmark

Kinda mad when you think of it. All the criminal damage, and assault and still ne'er a protester charged or prosecuted or evidence, either pictorial or video.

(although the Indo printed pictures of riots in Brussels, conveniently below a water meter protest related headline yesterday)

As for dissident involvement........ :pac:

Tinkersbell

Banjo String wrote: »

Some good points made here.


https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=997103893649451&id=850647988295043&ref=bookmark

Kinda mad when you think of it. All the criminal damage, and assault and still ne'er a protester charged or prosecuted.

As for dissident involvement........ :pac:

Denis O'Brien's 'Independent News & Media' (always have to laugh when I read the full title:D) really has shown itself up for what it is in the last few days.
I wonder will FG sell him RTE in the next while (refusing any better bids on behalf of the taxpayer) just to complete the set?

Banjo String

Tinkersbell wrote: »

Denis O'Brien's 'Independent News & Media' (always have to laugh when I read the full title:D) really has shown itself up for what it is in the last few days.
I wonder will FG sell him RTE in the next while (refusing any better bids on behalf of the taxpayer) just to complete the set?

I see the water meter protests are now targeting Topaz filling stations too.

Hardly gonna result in any of us bumping into Denis in Lidl tbh, but Meh....

michael999999

Gentleman Off The Pitch wrote: »

This thread should be stickied to remind everyone what mugs we are!

And e mailed to pat Kenny and the rest of the Newstalk staff daily, when the wonder why people don't want to pay Irish water a Cent.

Little CuChulainn

Tail Docker wrote: »

A lot of closed accounts, pity really. But interesting to read back. Still boils my pi55 though.

If you have to boil your piss I don't think you have to pay the water charges so at least that's one thing.

Tail Docker

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

If you have to boil your piss I don't think you have to pay the water charges so at least that's one thing.

The ESB bill is through the roof though as it's constantly boiling these days. Whiffy too.