Unsocialised Dogs in Daycare

Knine

Ear defenders are not actually that expensive. I have a pair for my daughter.

DBB

Knine wrote: »

Ear defenders are not actually that expensive. I have a pair for my daughter.

I've just picked out the first Irish site I could find when I googled "Ear defenders", and they range in price, depending on their ability to block out increasing noise levels, from €5.54 to €29.41, incl VAT!
Expensive my butt!:o

VonVix

DBB wrote: »

Jeez! If the appearance of a new person makes them fight and crap so readily, I would have serious concerns about the anxiety levels those dogs are enduring generally. If they're that quick to spark and poop, they're already on edge.

It might do no harm to point out to them that whilst a pair of ear defenders might be expensive, a claim against them for damaged hearing will be sooooo much more expensive

Yeah, the dogs are very varied in terms of how comfortable they are in daycare. It seems to basically be a "one size fits all" approach, all excited, playful, nervous, tired, unhappy or young dogs all must share the same environment.

There is actually another reason I think they can be so edgy at times, but I won't be getting into that here as it may be identifying the establishment.

As above. There's a claim just waiting to happen there.

You must find it all terribly frustrating VonVix?:(

Oh god yes, a lot of people get bothered by these things, but few feel much about it with the except of myself and one other (as far as I'm aware, anyway), most just get on with everything. I think it's because they haven't been directly affected by these issues.

Knine wrote: »

Ear defenders are not actually that expensive. I have a pair for my daughter.

Just had a look now, and right you are.

tk123

DBB wrote: »

As above. There's a claim just waiting to happen there.

On the owner's insurance maybe but all the disclaimers warn that any accidents your dog has are YOUR problem and they won't be held accountable

DBB

tk123 wrote: »

On the owner's insurance maybe but all the disclaimers warn that any accidents your dog has are YOUR problem and they won't be held accountable

It would be an interesting one to test... there is a duty of care on the daycare, and if there is something unsafe in the environment which causes injury, and particularly a risk that could have been reasonably reduced/minimised, they just might have it all to do to defend themselves in a civil case.

cbd18

hpsheba wrote: »

We get asked about webcams quiet a lot but it something that we decided was not for us. Firstly I would not be 100% comfortable being on camera all day and after speaking to the staff a lot of them felt the same, not for the sake of having anything to hide but more of a case of feeling self conscious. And I did speak to the person who looks after our employment contracts and they also advised against it for legal reason. BUT anther consideration for us was the cost. Our building is quiet old and the walls are like Fort Knox, we have a hard enough time getting phone signal in there let alone broadband access for the cameras ! Its takes an age just to upload photos onto the facebook page. Have to say that gang that work with us have great patience for it and even do them when they go home after work.

The webcams at most daycares in the states don't show the staff, occasionally you can see a pair of legs walking by. Which is funny. It's a great distraction at work and it's nice knowing your dog is having a good experience.

And after reading this thread I'm even more reluctant now to use a dog daycare which is highly disappointing, because I'm sure my dog misses it and there aren't any fenced in dog parks near Galway (we go up to Dublin once a month to stay with my partners parents and use the dog parks there to get our dog some social time, she loves it and the Cabinteely park seems to have very responsible dog owners (i.e. paying attention to their dogs and correcting any bad behavior)).

Someone mentioned the floors are slippery and dogs get injured? I'm surprised they don't have the rubber floor padding that is easier on dogs joints for indoor play.

And I agree, that's a bad sign if the presence of people create that much anxiety dogs poo then and there. I've never seen that happen ! I've toured at least 10 daycares in different states I've lived in in the US (sorry I keep bringing that up but it's the only thing I have to compare Irish daycares to) and I've never seen anything like that - I agree with the other person they must be pretty stressed.

*sigh*

VonVix

Don't get me wrong, I don't mean they poo in fright, I mean that they seem to have a moments peace as well as space and grab that moment to do their business, so basically when someone is viewing the daycare they just see crap around the place lol.

And don't feel too deterred cbd18, I am sure there are great daycares in Ireland and there are loads of dogs who love it, but I honestly think many owners put their dogs in daycare for their own benefit, and not the dogs. You need to be aware of how your dog is when around loads of different types of dogs (particularly those with different muzzle and ear shapes) and humans. If you think they are going to be quiet/nervy, or potentially over enthusiastic (to the point of intentionally or unintentionally hurting another dog or getting hurt by a dog because they cannot read their body language because of a lack of exposure) then it may not be a good environment for your dog to be in.

But of course, it also depends on the schedule and actual facilities in these daycares, some may be great compared to others, they may have facilities to accommodate dogs who want to take a nap after a while, or older dogs, etc. and this may make the experience sooo much more enjoyable for dogs than certain daycares than just lump all of them together in one room for the rest of their visit.

My point in making this thread was that I have met many dogs I wouldn't consider suitable for the environment, many dogs that are probably (and most likely) absolutely lovely dogs in their own home, but in daycare? It's not fair on them. Plus I wanted to see if anyone here thought it was a good idea to bring less socialised dogs into daycare, if they thought it was of benefit to their pets.

Okay, I am waffling on now.

borderlinemeath

tk123 wrote: »

On the owner's insurance maybe but all the disclaimers warn that any accidents your dog has are YOUR problem and they won't be held accountable

One of the reasons I have insurance is in case of any altercations and/or vet bills

hpsheba

VonVix, I really feel for you. The issues that you are seeing in the place you work, we have come up against them in our place too. The floor for our daycare cost in excess of €15,000 just for the main area and has a huge safety rating BUT like all floors if it gets wet there could still be a risk but luckily 2+ years down the line we have not had an accident with a dog or a staff member due to the floor.

If you want to pm me and have a chat feel welcome, I think I some of your ex colleagues have been in to see us. So please do not think you are alone in your worries.

We like most other daycare do have a disclaimer that we ask customers to sign. The no 1 reason we have it and this may sound odd, is that people lie when talking about their dogs to us, or maybe they just see their dog through rose tinted glasses. We have had many a dog come in for assessment who are not only unsuitable for daycare but also would require serious behavioral work just to be handled by strangers. We use the disclaimer generally to point out to the owner that we are aware that there are risks working with dog but the should be honest with us from the start or they may be consequences. Again we have been lucky or maybe its because we do take it all so seriously that there have been no injuries that would require more than a plaster and usually that's from an excitable dog with those long sharp nails.

Again, daycare is not for every dog, and the point that was raised that it is more for the owner than the dog I can concur with. While we have screened out dogs well and I feel we have a wonderful group of dogs that come to us, a lot of time that are with us to make their owners life easier or better.

With Dublin so built up now, we see a lot of dogs who have attracted complaints for being nuisance barkers, we see dogs who are destructive at home when left alone ( not separation anxiety,) due to boredom, or maybe the owners don't fancy having to head out after work that particular night after work to walk the dog for an hour. Its a new industry here, and I think most people who are working in daycare and even those of us who own them, would agree, that we are learning everyday what works best for the dogs in our care and the business itself. But the one thing I feel strongly enough to state here is that NO DAYCARE is the place to try and do behaviour modification on a dog, so NO dog with big social problems should attend. Maybe after a proper modification programme but definitely not as part of one.

TG1

Just read through this thread, and it has left me feeling very relieved! I was a bit upset because my friend accused me of being cruel to my dog about 3 days ago, and hasn't stopped mentioning it since!
The dog has been a part of the family for nearly 12 years at this stage, so we know him pretty well! He's not fond of other dogs, not afraid but he just doesn't acknowledge when a dog is trying to sniff/play etc. He is also wary of strangers, and doesn't even like when friends of mine pop into our house to feed him when we are not there. He is a border collie cross, so is quite active, but at nearly 12 he doesn't have the patience for puppies or overenthusiastic playmates, and even when my brothers 9 month old pup is over he hides in the utility room every half hour or so for a break!
All along there were 6 people in the house so the dog was never left alone, but for the last couple of years there's only 3 of us living there. On the odd occasion (maybe 4 times last year, its not frequent!), We have to leave him for 8/10 hours. We leave him with a big bowl of water and toys and a frozen kong, and come back to him stretching madly, his army of squeakys in the bed, an untouched water bowl and untouched kong which he then devours once we are home. We think he just pops into bed and snoozes till we come home.
My friend heard this and was horrified, calling me cruel, and saying she couldn't believe I owned a dog if I was willing to leave him like that... She was at pains to point out that there is a very well known doggy day care 20 mins from our house (that her dog attends and apparently loves...), and wouldn't accept that it was not a situation I thought my fella would be happy in. as well as him not being happy I imagine he would be quite problematic in a daycare, as he can have a growl and show teeth to my brothers pup, and is very standoffish with people he doesn't know.
I was actually starting to doubt my own judgement because she has been so vehement about telling me off...
I'm so glad I found this thread now, as after reading it I'm a bit reassured I'm right!

DBB

Well called TG1!
I must say, there have been many times that I have talked to owners who were about to leave their dogs with a certain trainer, or a certain kennels, or a certain daycare, or whatever, and suddenly got a feeling that it wasn't right. Some owners get that feeling much earlier, like yourself TG1. Either way, they didn't leave their dogs.
Now, these owners weren't necessarily the most experienced, they may not have owned dogs before, but their instincts were spot on. I think it's REALLY important that owners listen to that little voice that's telling them things aren't right, and bring your dog home with you... it's all too common for owners to hear that little voice and still leave their dog behind regardless, because the service they're entrusting their dog to know best, don't they? They're the experts, aren't they?
Feck that! If it doesn't feel right, it probably isn't!

tk123

DBB wrote: »

I think it's REALLY important that owners listen to that little voice that's telling them things aren't right, and bring your dog home with you... it's all too common for owners to hear that little voice and still leave their dog behind regardless, because the service they're entrusting their dog to know best, don't they? They're the experts, aren't they?
Feck that! If it doesn't feel right, it probably isn't!

To my shame I didn't listen to myself for a long time. Sure what would I know I'm only an owner right? :mad: My dog used to panic going into daycare because he didn't want me to leave him etc. The other daycare that we've been to for some classes and the odd social hour (more so for the puppy - I can't leave big boy alone that long so have to bring him along but he likes getting cuddles from all the owners) - my god the difference. It's like he'd been going there for the last 4 years and not the other place they know him so well and will work within his limits without making me feel ashamed/a failure).

This also brings up a major gripe of mine - if you're an expert your reputation will tell everyone you're an expert - you shouldn't be calling yourself one lol!!

VonVix

TG1 wrote: »

Just read through this thread, and it has left me feeling very relieved! I was a bit upset because my friend accused me of being cruel to my dog about 3 days ago, and hasn't stopped mentioning it since!
The dog has been a part of the family for nearly 12 years at this stage, so we know him pretty well! He's not fond of other dogs, not afraid but he just doesn't acknowledge when a dog is trying to sniff/play etc. He is also wary of strangers, and doesn't even like when friends of mine pop into our house to feed him when we are not there. He is a border collie cross, so is quite active, but at nearly 12 he doesn't have the patience for puppies or overenthusiastic playmates, and even when my brothers 9 month old pup is over he hides in the utility room every half hour or so for a break!
All along there were 6 people in the house so the dog was never left alone, but for the last couple of years there's only 3 of us living there. On the odd occasion (maybe 4 times last year, its not frequent!), We have to leave him for 8/10 hours. We leave him with a big bowl of water and toys and a frozen kong, and come back to him stretching madly, his army of squeakys in the bed, an untouched water bowl and untouched kong which he then devours once we are home. We think he just pops into bed and snoozes till we come home.
My friend heard this and was horrified, calling me cruel, and saying she couldn't believe I owned a dog if I was willing to leave him like that... She was at pains to point out that there is a very well known doggy day care 20 mins from our house (that her dog attends and apparently loves...), and wouldn't accept that it was not a situation I thought my fella would be happy in. as well as him not being happy I imagine he would be quite problematic in a daycare, as he can have a growl and show teeth to my brothers pup, and is very standoffish with people he doesn't know.
I was actually starting to doubt my own judgement because she has been so vehement about telling me off...
I'm so glad I found this thread now, as after reading it I'm a bit reassured I'm right!

I say well done to you. All dogs are different, to leave a different dog in that situation may be "cruel" to some people, but it depends on the dog you're leaving and what you leave them with (if anything besides water)! I get the impression you can read your boy well and he is definitely looked after when he is left alone.

Maybe your friend has a dog that she couldn't imagine leaving at home, maybe her dog has separation anxiety or tears the place to bits if left alone an hour. Who knows. But often people will take their own experience as one that may apply to most dogs. I'd ignore her if I were you.

gazzer

We have been leaving our 2 dogs in a Doggy Day care near to where we work for the last 5 months. They seem to have a great time and the people who run the day care are fantastic. You can tell they really love animals (they have 8 dogs of their own). They put photos up on Facebook every day (around 300 at a time) and will always tell you if they feel that your dog is unhappy or if they have noticed something that was different in your dog on a particular day.

I would love to leave them there each work day but finances done allow it unfortunately so at the moment we leave them there 2 days a week

tk123

gazzer wrote: »

We have been leaving our 2 dogs in a Doggy Day care near to where we work for the last 5 months. They seem to have a great time and the people who run the day care are fantastic. You can tell they really love animals (they have 8 dogs of their own). They put photos up on Facebook every day (around 300 at a time) and will always tell you if they feel that your dog is unhappy or if they have noticed something that was different in your dog on a particular day.

I would love to leave them there each work day but finances done allow it unfortunately so at the moment we leave them there 2 days a week

300 photos a day?! :eek::pac:

gazzer

tk123 wrote: »

300 photos a day?! :eek::pac:

Yeah. One of the owners loves taking photos of the dogs when they are playing so throughout the day she would take all those photos and put them up on their Facebook site at around 4pm. I have gotten some gorgeous photos of my 2 from there.

hpsheba

tk123 wrote: »

To my shame I didn't listen to myself for a long time. Sure what would I know I'm only an owner right? :mad:

This also brings up a major gripe of mine - if you're an expert your reputation will tell everyone you're an expert - you shouldn't be calling yourself one lol!!

Ok, first as the owner you know your dog better than anyone else so never under estimate that when it comes to bringing them places or doing things.
We see a lot of dog owners day in day out and I would never ever assume to know the dogs better than they do. I may be able to advise some products or services that may help make their live easier, I may be able to say that X training class would be fun for their dog or x training class will help with an issues they have.

When its comes to dogs there are very few experts, its such a new science, research being done constantly changing and challenging traditional believe and old theories. I am a fan of the forever student LOL , someone who is willing to keep studying. reading new material and trying new techniques.

unclebill98

This tread is good though slightly confusing. Day care good, no day care bad....

I am a regular user of a day care centre. For many reasons like work etc. My dogs where assessed for suitability before entering the centre and I've had issue with one of my dogs and it was declined day care until its behaviours improved etc.

I find my dogs get great interaction with other dogs. Has helped me with them when I walk them myself etc as there socialised. I love when they come home there are all wrecked and just wanna sleep, apart from the pup who has endless energy.

Id agree with reasons for not seeing the area. I suppose it depends on when you turn up. The dogs could be mid play, hyped up etc and I gone in myself at this stage, never a fight but a massive rush over to see who it is. I would be wary of any day care that refused point blank to ever let you see the centre in full.

I would assume most centres have a FB page and stick up pictures etc and the webcam thing is a great idea but of course not ideal for all places.

I personally don't think its right to leave a dog for endless hours on its own on a very regular basis. The odd time fine.

Interesting tread all the same.

tk123

I think the debate is that some daycares are run better than others. Some have a skeleton crew of staff with one person watching 20 dogs or more and some have loads, some use cages and some don't, some have toys for the dogs to play with some it's just the dogs walking around in circles etc etc

unclebill98 wrote: »

I love when they come home there are all wrecked and just wanna sleep, apart from the pup who has endless energy.

I used to think the same thing about daycare and them being tired - especially when my older dog was hyper from being on a cereal based food (RC) that I'd now never dream of feeding them. My dogs get a 30min walk in the morning - just them pottering around the park so not proper walking or anything and would sleep all day, another proper walk in the evening for 40 mins or so (the pup is 8 months so can't walk her too far on concrete footpaths) and they're chilled asleep all evening. My pup would get tired 30 mins into a social hour too - she doesn't need a full day of playing.
I was working from home all week and was exhausted from only taking breaks around when the dogs would wake up to go to the loo lol - they hardly get up at all lol! .