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SIRO - ESB/Vodafone Fibre To The Home

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    #452
    fergus1001
    Registered Users Posts: 2,625 ✭✭✭fergus1001


    I can see eircoms network becoming redundant over the next 10 years and the company itself get into serious trouble because of the lack of line rental and income from other operators using there network


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    #453
    jca
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,585 ✭✭✭jca


    fergus1001 wrote: »
    I can see eircoms network becoming redundant over the next 10 years and the company itself get into serious trouble because of the lack of line rental and income from other operators using there network

    Tough. Entirely their own fault if it does happen.


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    #454
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,026 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    fergus1001 wrote: »
    I can see eircoms network becoming redundant over the next 10 years and the company itself get into serious trouble because of the lack of line rental and income from other operators using there network
    Their copper last mile will eventually become redundant yes, as eventually FTTH/B will be ubiquitous. That day is more than 10 years away though. ESB won't even complete Phase I of this project until 2018 and that's assuming they get a swift green light from the EU.

    Phase I only encompasses something like 25% of all premises. That leaves a lot or premises still reliant on copper twisted pairs or coax (though I believe UPC will move to replace their coax last mile with fibre as well. They'll have no choice and are probably in the best position to do so as the cable network is much younger overall than the telephone network).

    Even so, we're looking at more like 20+ years from now before you could reasonably expect every last bit of copper to be retired from the Eircom network. Even that would be a huge achievement though!! It all depends how the ESB/VOD JV pans out. They have a much harder task ahead of them than Eircom with VDSL. No matter what people think about "using existing ESB infrastructure" there will be a awful lot of digging done to get fibre actually into properties. It'll be akin to when an area gets connected to the natural gas grid I'd say.


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    #455
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,026 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    jca wrote: »
    Tough. Entirely their own fault if it does happen.
    Eircom are not going to sit back and watch the ESB lay fibre to people's homes without reacting. They didn't build the VDSL cabinets to be "FTTH ready" for a laugh. They'll begin replacing their last mile with fibre as well. So will UPC.

    It's a total game changer when one large provider goes FTTH on such a scale as has been announced.


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    #456
    kaizersoze
    Registered Users Posts: 7,042 ✭✭✭kaizersoze


    Other than Galway city, nothing in Galway...


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    #457
    fergus1001
    Registered Users Posts: 2,625 ✭✭✭fergus1001


    kaizersoze wrote: »
    Other than Galway city, nothing in Galway...

    You have have esb fibre in Galway already look at the MAN's on the maps


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    #458
    Manc Red
    Registered Users Posts: 293 ✭✭Manc Red


    It will be interesting to see what impact this has. Competition is great for everyone. I'm in a fibre enabled area for over a year now and still haven't been able to get it. I kinda gave up hope that we would ever get it. Hopefully this will be our saving grace, but I won't believe anything until I see it.

    Up to 1Gbps broadband in Ireland...? It just seems to good to be true.


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    #459
    1huge1
    Registered Users Posts: 6,173 ✭✭✭1huge1


    I wonder how much of this can be attributed to Pat Rabbittes time as Communications minister even if he is about to lose that job, the pace of change in the broadband infrastructure in this country has finally started to catch up with the rest of the world.

    Whatever it is, it is very welcome.


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    #460
    7upfree
    Registered Users Posts: 2,124 ✭✭✭7upfree


    murphaph wrote: »
    Their copper last mile will eventually become redundant yes, as eventually FTTH/B will be ubiquitous. That day is more than 10 years away though. ESB won't even complete Phase I of this project until 2018 and that's assuming they get a swift green light from the EU.

    Phase I only encompasses something like 25% of all premises. That leaves a lot or premises still reliant on copper twisted pairs or coax (though I believe UPC will move to replace their coax last mile with fibre as well. They'll have no choice and are probably in the best position to do so as the cable network is much younger overall than the telephone network).

    Even so, we're looking at more like 20+ years from now before you could reasonably expect every last bit of copper to be retired from the Eircom network. Even that would be a huge achievement though!! It all depends how the ESB/VOD JV pans out. They have a much harder task ahead of them than Eircom with VDSL. No matter what people think about "using existing ESB infrastructure" there will be a awful lot of digging done to get fibre actually into properties. It'll be akin to when an area gets connected to the natural gas grid I'd say.

    Yeah - where my parents live all the ESB wires are underground. So what happens there? €450m doesn't seem like a lot when you look at that kind of thing.


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    #461
    kaizersoze
    Registered Users Posts: 7,042 ✭✭✭kaizersoze


    fergus1001 wrote: »
    You have have esb fibre in Galway already look at the MAN's on the maps

    I know. We have a MAN here in Ballinasloe.

    What I meant was, in the 50 locations listed by ESB/Vodafone, nothing for Galway except for Galway City


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    #462
    markad1
    Registered Users Posts: 921 ✭✭✭markad1


    I can't believe it....Rush is on the list:D:D


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    #463
    ED E
    Registered Users Posts: 36,167 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    kaizersoze wrote: »
    Other than Galway city, nothing in Galway...

    Direct fed VDSL otw for parts anyways. Keep town dwellers happy.
    1huge1 wrote: »
    I wonder how much of this can be attributed to Pat Rabbittes time as Communications minister even if he is about to lose that job, the pace of change in the broadband infrastructure in this country has finally started to catch up with the rest of the world.

    None of it, we can safely say that.


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    #464
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,026 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    kaizersoze wrote: »
    Other than Galway city, nothing in Galway...
    ...and if 95% of Galway's population was covered you'd say "How come everyone in Galway except me can get FTTH?".

    They can't win. They have to start somewhere FFS!!


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    #465
    godskitchen
    Registered Users Posts: 1,826 ✭✭✭godskitchen


    Is it just me or is the current ESB fibre network not all that impressive?......

    From the published map it looks like they have a lot of fibre to run.


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    #466
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,026 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    That's what the half billion is for ;-)


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    #467
    Steviemak
    Closed Accounts Posts: 430 ✭✭Steviemak


    godskitchen wrote: »
    Is it just me or is the current ESB fibre network not all that impressive?......

    From the published map it looks like they have a lot of fibre to run.

    Compared to eircom's fibre network it really isn't.
    http://www.eircomwholesale.ie/Our_Network/

    It's the last mile that Eircom are let down


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    #468
    Steviemak
    Closed Accounts Posts: 430 ✭✭Steviemak


    godskitchen wrote: »
    Is it just me or is the current ESB fibre network not all that impressive?......

    From the published map it looks like they have a lot of fibre to run.

    Compared to eircom's fibre network it really isn't.
    http://www.eircomwholesale.ie/Our_Network/

    It's the last mile that Eircom are let down


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    #469
    kaizersoze
    Registered Users Posts: 7,042 ✭✭✭kaizersoze


    murphaph wrote: »
    ...and if 95% of Galway's population was covered you'd say "How come everyone in Galway except me can get FTTH?".

    They can't win. They have to start somewhere FFS!!

    Just making an observation.

    Wind your fu€kin neck in.


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    #470
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,026 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    kaizersoze wrote: »
    Just making an observation.

    Wind your fu€kin neck in.
    It's this "nothing for MY county" mentality that has the country where it is.


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    #471
    fergus1001
    Registered Users Posts: 2,625 ✭✭✭fergus1001


    kaizersoze wrote: »
    Just making an observation.

    Wind your fu€kin neck in.

    Down with that sorta thing!


    Careful now !


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    #472
    greilly123
    Registered Users Posts: 25 ✭greilly123


    Is it not possible for ESB to deliver broadband through the power socket. ?


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    #473
    hallo dare
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,787 ✭✭✭hallo dare


    greilly123 wrote: »
    Is it not possible for ESB to deliver broadband through the power socket. ?

    Huh???


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    #474
    eirman
    Registered Users Posts: 1,000 ✭✭✭eirman


    One of the most relevant and cogent comments in this thread was made by BK ......

    However the ESB do think different from other companies. They work on long term infrastructure projects.
    They are looking at this as a long term investment over 30 years.

    Therefore normal return on investment calculations don't come into play when it comes to remote rural areas.

    In addition, consider the cost saving implications of having an ESB smart meter and a fibre connection side by side ....
    • Real-time monitoring of usage.
    • Remote automatic reading of meters (no more meter readers employed)
    • Remote disconnection & reconnection of electricity supply.


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    #475
    dalta5billion
    Registered Users Posts: 1,034 ✭✭✭dalta5billion


    greilly123 wrote: »
    Is it not possible for ESB to deliver broadband through the power socket. ?

    Broadband over power line was a disaster.


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    #476
    TheDriver
    Registered Users Posts: 12,517 ✭✭✭✭TheDriver


    can anyone describe how this works in reality? what equipment etc will we see in our homes?


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    #477
    norrie rugger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,656 ✭✭✭norrie rugger


    Will be better when they release a coverage map, rather than just a list of places.

    A lot of the places named cover a lot of areas that, even now, have differing levels of service


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    #478
    ED E
    Registered Users Posts: 36,167 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    TheDriver wrote: »
    can anyone describe how this works in reality? what equipment etc will we see in our homes?

    A small ONT and any cable router you like.


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    #479
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,026 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    I presume most of the digging will be subcontracted just like the eircom VDSL rollout. 60 employees certainly won't be enough for this mammoth task.


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    #480
    Impetus
    Registered Users Posts: 1,667 ✭✭✭Impetus


    murphaph wrote: »
    I presume most of the digging will be subcontracted just like the eircom VDSL rollout. 60 employees certainly won't be enough for this mammoth task.

    This essentially looks like a rural FTTP project - which does not generally involve much digging - they just string the fibre from ESB or phone pole to pole (which is mechanizable) . Rural areas are the cheapest to install fiber in. The issue is how much use will be made of this infrastructure in a rural area? I have no objection to good broadband service becoming available in either rural or urban areas.

    Finally it is down to contention ratios - eg a gigabit fibre shared among 100,000 subscribers gives a theoretical 10 kbits/sec at best (and in reality much less). A fast Morse code machine, no better. One needs competition (ie open fibre) to encourage lots of providers to compete on both quality (ie low contention) and price.


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    #481
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,026 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    Impetus wrote: »
    This essentially looks like a rural FTTP project
    No it doesn't. Have you read anything about the JV? They have named the towns they wish to target in Phase I. They are largely provincial towns with more than 4,000 buildings, so yes, it is going to involve lots of digging in estates which aren't ducted for electricity (lots and lots of them!!).
    Impetus wrote: »
    which does not generally involve much digging - they just string the fibre from ESB or phone pole to pole (which is mechanizable) . Rural areas are the cheapest to install fiber in. The issue is how much use will be made of this infrastructure in a rural area? I have no objection to good broadband service becoming available in either rural or urban areas.
    But they aren't doing any of this in Phase I. It's also definitely not cheaper to connect 50 one off houses over 10km² than 50 houses in a single estate, with ducting or not.
    Impetus wrote: »
    Finally it is down to contention ratios - eg a gigabit fibre shared among 100,000 subscribers gives a theoretical 10 kbits/sec at best (and in reality much less). A fast Morse code machine, no better. One needs competition (ie open fibre) to encourage lots of providers to compete on both quality (ie low contention) and price.
    What are you on about? They don't have "one" fibre serving 100k subscribers. I think you're just trying to knock this project for some weird reason. Google "ESB FTTH" and check out the praise for this project in the industry. It is a huge step Ireland is taking going down this road now. The other providers will be forced to upgrade their last miles to FTTH as well.

    Ireland will have the best broadband in Europe and most of the world in 10 years if this all goes to plan.


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