SIRO - ESB/Vodafone Fibre To The Home

bloodyhawk

I cant believe this, We get this wonderful news and all people do is complain. Its seems like no matter how far this country advances people will still find some kind of reason to complain. Typical humanity, fml!

same ol sh1te

bloodyhawk wrote: »

I cant believe this, We get this wonderful news and all people do is complain. Its seems like no matter how far this country advances people will still find some kind of reason to complain. Typical humanity, fml!

Who's complaining?

garroff

I'm complaining.
This JV was supposed to bring BB to rural areas (I thought)....it never will.

hallo dare

bloodyhawk wrote: »

I cant believe this, We get this wonderful news and all people do is complain. Its seems like no matter how far this country advances people will still find some kind of reason to complain. Typical humanity, fml!

It is wonderful news and great to see it happening. what people are annoyed about (me included) is that it's not for the whole Country, well not for the minute anyway. People out in the sticks are left out yet again and getting sick of it at this stage.

What I can't understand is all these homes, regardless of where they are in the Country can be electrified but not sorted with Fibre BB. Sure the whole money story comes into things again, but when the electric grid was first established there was a sh1t load of money that was needed to fund and build an electrical infrastructure.

I still believe that the Government need to establish a BB semi-state body or establish a sister company to ESB to deal with nothing else but BB. It's the one true way of getting this nailed for good, plus the Government can collect divident from the new body also each year.

In a heartbeat they can establish a body that few to no people want with Irish Water, yet the one thing almost every home in the land wants is quality BB and it's a big song and dance.

Aw well.

Gonzo

bloodyhawk wrote: »

I cant believe this, We get this wonderful news and all people do is complain. Its seems like no matter how far this country advances people will still find some kind of reason to complain. Typical humanity, fml!

Plenty of people have a right to complain, I believe when this was initially announced it was meant to be for 'rural' homes and communities. It finally gave us a glimmer of hope that within the next 2 to 5 years, that those of us living outside of large towns and villages in even semi-rural/urban environments could finally see speeds greater than 1 to 8meg.The original announcement made it sound like they were going to rural areas where there is currently no decent broadband.

Then the reality hit when they made a proper announcement and changed it completely to urban areas yet again, delivering even faster broadband to the same communities that already have broadband that's far faster than they ever need, making the digital divide even worse than it is right now. Many of these places already have UPC Fibre, Eircom/Vodafone Efibre and Magnet Fibre.

same ol sh1te

This was never announced as being for rural areas. You guys are mixing up the national broadband plan, which was announced and still exists

hallo dare

same ol sh1te wrote: »

This was never announced as being for rural areas. You guys are mixing up the national broadband plan, which was announced and still exists

See the link in the First post.

wrt40

The irony is we will all be getting up to 10 Gb/s uncontended via mobile networks before any of this becomes mainstream.

garroff

10GB/s!!!!!!!......I'll settle for 10MB/s

wrt40....do you really mean GBs

wrt40

garroff wrote: »

10GB/s!!!!!!!......I'll settle for 10MB/s

wrt40....do you really mean GBs

Yes, "up to" 10GB/s with the next generation 5G (although not officially named 5G). The EU and South Korea are teaming up to get this technology out first. Can't remember where I read it but I'm sure a quick google will get you more info.

hallo dare

wrt40 wrote: »

Yes, "up to" 10GB/s with the next generation 5G (although not officially named 5G). The EU and South Korea are teaming up to get this technology out first. Can't remember where I read it but I'm sure a quick google will get you more info.

With a monthly cap of 2GB!

wrt40

hallo dare wrote: »

With a monthly cap of 2GB!

Probably! but it'll be uncontended, so caps should go "limitless" as was the case with landline broadband when it went uncontended. I'd imagine it'll be the death of landline products unless they can come up with something similar, so we should see them selling home broadband too. But probably wishful thinking.

Gonzo

same ol sh1te wrote: »

This was never announced as being for rural areas. You guys are mixing up the national broadband plan, which was announced and still exists

wrong, there were plenty of reports online several months back with ESB claiming they are finally going to be the ones who will tackle rural areas...
http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0122/499525-esb-broadband/

bunch of lies those articles turned out to be... I can still see rural areas in 5 years time having the same connections as they do today.

same ol sh1te

Gonzo wrote: »

wrong, there were plenty of reports online several months back with ESB claiming they are finally going to be the ones who will tackle rural areas...
http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0122/499525-esb-broadband/

bunch of lies those articles turned out to be... I can still see rural areas in 5 years time having the same connections as they do today.

That is the announcement of a bill allowing the ESB to enter the broadband market. This is a joint venture between the ESB and Vodafone which sets out to make money. As I said the National Broadband Plan still exists and had nothingto do with this joint venture

jca

wrt40 wrote: »

Yes, "up to" 10GB/s with the next generation 5G (although not officially named 5G). The EU and South Korea are teaming up to get this technology out first. Can't remember where I read it but I'm sure a quick google will get you more info.

5G???? FFS We don't have decent 3G yet!!!

Quin_Dub

same ol sh1te wrote: »

That is the announcement of a bill allowing the ESB to enter the broadband market. This is a joint venture between the ESB and Vodafone which sets out to make money. As I said the National Broadband Plan still exists and had nothing to do with this joint venture

Yes - But.. when exactly do you think they are going to "get around" to the National Broadband plan whilst they are busy offering yet more services to the same people that already have more than adequate speeds today??

Anybody reasonable living in a rural area is not expecting 200Mbs FTTH stuff anytime soon. I'm pretty sure we'd all be fairly thrilled with getting a reliable stable 20-25Mb/s service in the foreseeable future...

When I talk about rural here I'm not talking about 20 miles from civilisation half way up a mountain.. I'm talking about the 10's of thousands of people living around the country that live within a 5-7 mile radius of a 5 to 10k sized population centre...

Look at this list

Once you move outside the Top 5 places in this list, if you are living in the "Suburbs" (for the want of a better description) or beyond of any of the other places on this list , you are not getting BB other than heavily congested single digit speed muck..

And - A quick count of the numbers in this list gives 2.6M living in our 100 largest cities/towns... So that means we have about another 2M people or 40% of the population that are not likely to have broadband at a usable/affordable level anytime soon..

That's what we're complaining about!!!

Gonzo

same ol sh1te wrote: »

That is the announcement of a bill allowing the ESB to enter the broadband market. This is a joint venture between the ESB and Vodafone which sets out to make money. As I said the National Broadband Plan still exists and had nothingto do with this joint venture

if this is an announcement of a bill for ESB to enter the broadband market allowing them to set up in what is now very much urban areas with already excellent fibre broadband infrastructure then why does this article have a headline:

ESB set to deliver broadband to rural areas

and below the article image:

Plans are afoot for the ESB network to be used to roll-out broadband across rural Ireland

That article seemed to fool me and many others into false believe that something was finally going to be done to deliver decent broadband to rural areas.

The Article should have been titled:

Plans are afoot for ESB Network to enter the fibre broadband market in urban areas to compete against Eircom Efibre and UPC fibre.

same ol sh1te

Gonzo wrote: »

if this is an announcement of a bill for ESB to enter the broadband market allowing them to set up in what is now very much urban areas with already excellent fibre broadband infrastructure then why does this article have a headline:

ESB set to deliver broadband to rural areas

and below the article image:

Plans are afoot for the ESB network to be used to roll-out broadband across rural Ireland

That article seemed to fool me and many others into false believe that something was finally going to be done to deliver decent broadband to rural areas.

The Article should have been titled:

Plans are afoot for ESB Network to enter the fibre broadband market in urban areas to compete against Eircom Efibre and UPC fibre.

Sorry but I don't see joint venture with Vodafone anywhere in that article which is what this thread is about. It was a press release about a bill that was passed allowing the ESB to enter the broadband market and it was actually truthful, you and others just read to much into it. There still isn't a proper plan (nobody knows the status of the national broadband plan) and there won't be rural fibre until there is a plan and funding available

hallo dare

same ol sh1te wrote: »

Sorry but I don't see joint venture with Vodafone anywhere in that article which is what this thread is about. It was a press release about a bill that was passed allowing the ESB to enter the broadband market and it was actually truthful, you and others just read to much into it. There still isn't a proper plan (nobody knows the status of the national broadband plan) and there won't be rural fibre until there is a plan and funding available

To be fair when i started this thread i did not have Vodafone in the title, but some mod decided in all their glory to change my title and add Vodafone to it. But it doesn't matter now.

murphaph

It makes complete sense to start in urban areas and work fibre out from there. Fibre doesn't suffer from the attenuation problems associated with xDSL.

football_lover

murphaph wrote: »

we are actually now moving towards FTTB. The ESB/Vodafone JV will get 25% of all premises in the state on FTTB in Phase I alone (by 2018). Phase II (AFAICT) aims to add another 25% and assuming it takes a little longer but not much longer than Phase I then within 10 years Ireland will have 50% of all premises in the state equipped with FTTB. I promise you now that no other sizable (the likes of Andorra & Lichtenstein excepted) country in Europe (depending on how the Latvians continue with their extensive FTTB programme) will match this level of penetration and that's before we even consider the effects of the ESB's plan on Eircom and UPC. These 2 companies (especially UPC) will be forced to replace their last miles with fibre and as the ESB intends avoiding UPC areas initially, we can expect that this will push the number of premises with FTTB to over 60% in 10 years.

That would be simply phenominal and would leave most of Europe in our dust. The critical mass would have been achieved and there would be high quality fibre backhaul densely spread around the country to provide REAL wireless broadband options to our farmers and those who choose to live in isolated one off properties. Make no mistake the ESB's plan here is revolutionary stuff. Will there still be one off properties in Ireland in 20 years who can't access "decent" broadband? Yes, probably, but very few I suspect.

Edit: Just on the VDSL thing. Yes, it is only going to provide service to those within 2km of the cabinet (at present) BUT these cabinets are FTTB ready. Eircom knows they will have to replace the last miles from these cabinets with fibre at some point (though they were probably hoping for that to be at least 5 years away). When they start doing that (and they will now be forced to commercially after this ESB thing) then the 2km limit imposed by copper last miles vanishes and Eircom are not going to arbitrarily draw a circle around the cabinet and say "no FTTB beyond here". Why would they do that? They'll use these cabinets to push fibre deeper into the countryside around the towns and villages they are located in as part of general upgrades of the lines served by that cabinet (and/or the copper cabinet beside it).

50% will really be dublin based and it will not be FTTX.

It will be using existing copper for the last mile and from the cabinet to the building.

Ireland has not agenda or plan for a proper fiber optics network that it requires.

All communications infrastructure in Ireland is being geared towards urban.

football_lover

murphaph wrote: »

I've qualified everything by saying "if the plans are implemented". So far Eircom have done astonishingly well in their rollout and proves it can be done in Ireland and UPC already provide superior speeds over their coax last miles than the likes of Kabel Deutschland (max 100 Mb) or Virgin Media (162Mb I believe).

What else can we do on this thread other than speculate? If we can't speculate, then we close the thread until Phase I of the ESB rollout is complete and ask ourselves "did it work?"...I don't think so.

I'm living in central Berlin right now and we have VDSL (but not vectored and "only" 50/10). We are however in the process of buying a site in a suburban town about 10km from Berlin. It's a town of 11k people but it only partially has VDSL (about 3k people can get it) and a handful (maybe 1k people) can get cable internet (100Mb). The rest can get a max of 16Mb ADSL2 and there are no immediate plans to upgrade or build either the VDSL or Cable networks further. I'm looking on at Ireland with envy! My mother lives 650m from a cabinet and recently got VDSL and it's just as fast as ours (thanks to vectoring) despite the fact we're only ca. 150m from our cabinet. Her upload is almost twice as fast as ours.

The rollout is also a thousand times more transparent in Ireland. People on here give Eircom stick for slipped (estimated) go live dates. In Germany there are no nice maps with existing and planned cabinet locations. It's a case of calling Telekom and hoping they tell you something. The Eircom Wholesale website in comparison is awesome stuff.

Ireland does a lot of stuff really badly but it's getting its broadband sh!t together. Anybody but the most pessimistic person can see that.

40% of Ireland population is rural and there is no plans for these people.

The cities and urban Areas of Ireland are already being well serviced as you have point out.

I know people that routinely get 40 Mbps in urban Ireland but travel out 5 to 6 miles and people are getting dial up speeds.

But yet some of the people on dial up speeds are contributing more to the economy.

If Ireland wants a welfare state then everybody is entitled to such a tax driven economy.

Otherwise there is no point doing it.


If would take about 3 billion to cover the majority of Ireland in a next generation communications system.

Which would consist of copper and fiber optics.

swoofer

steady on this JV has to be approved by the EU commission yet and that's not a given. This is a bit like the Garth Brooks fiasco, ie we will set it all up and then apply for permission and as we have done so much already they cant refuse.

Also if you think Eircom are just going to accept this and roll over while they loose their customers then you are very much mistaken. At the moment the ESB is an electric company and Eircom is a telephone company ie no conflict. Once ESB joins with vofafone it becomes a telecommunications company and has to grant inter alia rights, ie you want our business so we will want use of your network, ie eircom use esb poles for lines and so on.

Its not cut and dried.

murphaph

football_lover wrote: »

40% of Ireland population is rural and there is no plans for these people.

Define rural for me please. I think a lot of this discussion hangs on what people think of when they hear "rural". I think of small country towns and villages as well as the one off isolated properties that were built en-masse in the past 30-40 years.

We certainly are not at a point where we can say all or even most towns and villages in provincial Ireland are getting at least (say) 10Mb broadband. All those small towns and villages are and should be higher priorities than one-off housing. When they are done then we can say there's "no plan", but there is a plan: actually 3 plans, to get these places on to quality fixed line BB.

The plan stops short of figuring out how to serve one-off properties. This is not really surprising as they are really difficult and/or expensive to serve. FTTH is the only quality fixed line solution for those premises because all the xDSL technologies fall off a cliff with distance from the exchange/cabinet, which is unavoidable with such settlement patterns.

To get FTTH to such properties requires a network to exist in the first place. No operator is going to start rolling out FTTH to one off properties as they'd go bust long before they go to the low hanging fruit of villages, towns and cities.

In the meantime, there should be a plan for improved wireless solutions using the fibre that is laid to nearby villages and towns. Wireless has been crap largely because the backhaul wasn't there. That problem is gradually being solved now with the various rollouts.

mark_79

Thanks a lot you miserable shower of c****.

How many more towns to suffer a similar fate?

Nolars

mark_79 wrote: »

Thanks a lot you miserable shower of c****.

How many more towns to suffer a similar fate?

Poor new ross with yer Efiber

hallo dare

murphaph wrote: »

This is not really surprising as they are really difficult and/or expensive to serve..

Yet the ESB were able to supply those same homes with Electricity!

1huge1

hallo dare wrote: »

Yet the ESB were able to supply those same homes with Electricity!

You won't get much pity around here especially as New Ross is already enabled with 100mb Broadband from eircom...

Don't really know what you are complaining about.

same ol sh1te

hallo dare wrote: »

Yet the ESB were able to supply those same homes with Electricity!

The rural electricity network took 40 yrs to complete

mark_79

Nolars wrote: »

Poor new ross with yer Efiber

With yer broadband you mean. Still waiting for e-fibre.

God this f****** country. No wonder half of it has left.