SIRO - ESB/Vodafone Fibre To The Home

muffler

Marlow wrote: »

SIRO has no facility to offer you a broadband service. They only do the last mile. They have no nationwide infrastructure at all.

They simply build the local network and then hand the connections off to the providers.

So, there is no way, they could give you that.

Meant to reply earlier to this. Im familiar with and agree with what you have posted. I fully understand that SIRO cannot provide me with a bb service..at least not directly anyhow.

The point I'm making in this debate is that SIRO are asking me to facilitate them as a company and in doing so I will be facilitating another 40 houses potentially. But who is facilitating me? I dont need or want the service as Im quite happy with the fibre BB I already have.

If I acceded to their request SIRO stands to make money out of this, neighbours get high speed BB but what do I get? Answer: Nothing.

Worst of all I am being asked to forego any possible chance of ever extending my house to the side coupled with the potential for workmen to enter my property at any time in the future for maintenance purposes and then there's the little issue of the property loosing value because it would have a burden registered

Marlow

Averi Cool Midget wrote: »

Let's face it. They go facade mounted because they are miles behind on their stated deadlines and it would cost them a fortune to bury cable everywhere.

No. They have used facade retracted solutions from day one in the cities.

muffler wrote: »

The point I'm making in this debate is that SIRO are asking me to facilitate them as a company and in doing so I will be facilitating another 40 houses potentially. But who is facilitating me? I dont need or want the service as Im quite happy with the fibre BB I already have.

If I acceded to their request SIRO stands to make money out of this, neighbours get high speed BB but what do I get? Answer: Nothing.

You're looking at this wrong. Basically, all it means that your house and probably 1 or 2 neighbors before and after your house won't get enabled for SIRO .. ever.

The unit they are fitting will be for the purpose of servicing 4 houses at the most.

/M

Marlow

Averi Cool Midget wrote: »

Have you any images of the small box? Muffler said DP so that is what I was going on.

That box there. A box every 4-6 houses. Fibre gets pulled back, when a premise gets connected and the premise then connecting using that fibre.

That's been used in many places. I've seen them in Sligo, Athlone, Limerick, Ennis.

/M

digiman

This is a huge problem for infrastructure providers, everybody wants something and trying to catch a freebe.

I hope the NBP doesn't have the same issues when it comes to accessing poles and other infrastructure.

As others have said try and come to an agreement where they will sort something out in the future in the unlikely event that you extend your home but you can't expect they will offer everyone who says no a free service because guess what everyone will end up saying no as this will travel around quick and they for sure can't give everybody free broadband.

oscarBravo

Averi Cool Midget wrote: »

In your opinion should SIRO provide any compensation in this case?

No.

We've seen the question asked on this forum before: why can't we do B4RN-type projects in Ireland? The answer I've always given is that in the UK, landowners ask "how can I help?", while in Ireland, they ask "what's in it for me?"

If muffler doesn't want to facilitate the provision of fibre broadband to his neighbours, that's entirely up to him, and he's completely within his rights. But if a facade-mounted fibre solution requires financial compensation for every homeowner, it's just not financially viable.

muffler

Marlow wrote: »

The unit they are fitting will be for the purpose of servicing 4 houses at the most.

They have already told me that there will be 26 houses (I see 40 houses) served by placing boxes on the gable wall of my house.

Johnboy1951

oscarBravo wrote: »

No.

We've seen the question asked on this forum before: why can't we do B4RN-type projects in Ireland? The answer I've always given is that in the UK, landowners ask "how can I help?", while in Ireland, they ask "what's in it for me?"

If muffler doesn't want to facilitate the provision of fibre broadband to his neighbours, that's entirely up to him, and he's completely within his rights. But if a facade-mounted fibre solution requires financial compensation for every homeowner, it's just not financially viable.

Then let them do it another way.
It is not as if they were asked to put their gear on a private dwelling.
It was their request.

If someone wished to erect a commercial advertising hoarding on another's land do they usually get compensated?
Why should this be any different?
Both are commercial endeavours.

My guess is that most of the time people will say go ahead because they do not have a good service and this is one way they ensure they will get it, and the likes of Siro are taking advantage of that.

muffler

digiman wrote: »

This is a huge problem for infrastructure providers, everybody wants something and trying to catch a freebe.

Not sure if you have read all my previous posts but looking for a freebie is not what this is about.

digiman wrote: »

As others have said try and come to an agreement where they will sort something out in the future in the unlikely event that you extend your home

I have tried but they have refused to engage in any dialogue.

digiman wrote: »

but you can't expect they will offer everyone who says no a free service because guess what everyone will end up saying no as this will travel around quick and they for sure can't give everybody free broadband.

oscarBravo wrote: »

If muffler doesn't want to facilitate the provision of fibre broadband to his neighbours, that's entirely up to him, and he's completely within his rights. But if a facade-mounted fibre solution requires financial compensation for every homeowner, it's just not financially viable.

I cant be any clearer at this stage. I am not looking for free broadband but I am looking to protect my interests and the interests of my family in the future. SIRO wish to place 2 boxes (connected to each other) on the gable wall of my house which will service, in their estimate, 26 houses approx. and if I agree I am legally prohibited from ever carrying out any improvement works (extension) to that side of the house.

So some people think I should sacrifice all this for nothing? I despair, I really do.

scamalert

muffler wrote: »

They have already told me that there will be 26 houses (I see 40 houses) served by placing boxes on the gable wall of my house.

thats 40 risks that you face wrath of your neighbors :pac:





jokes aside, if they aren't even willing to offer free BB for you then tell them to fck off as saying rest wont have BB isn't excuse to extort you, as 40houses is like 24k+ a year profit for them, which should be peanuts to offer you free BB to host their equipment at very least, in other words there's 0 incentive for you to have any hassle in even doing talks if thats the attitude.

Marlow

scamalert wrote: »

as 40houses is like 24k+ a year profit for them

Where on earth did you come up with that figure ? It's more like 10k/year to them ... if all 40 houses sign up.

With 25% uptake currently, it's more like 2.5k/year. And that's before they've paid any bills.

At the quoted 26 houses with 25% uptake, it's sub 1800/year.

/M

tsue921i8wljb3

oscarBravo wrote: »

No.

We've seen the question asked on this forum before: why can't we do B4RN-type projects in Ireland? The answer I've always given is that in the UK, landowners ask "how can I help?", while in Ireland, they ask "what's in it for me?"

If muffler doesn't want to facilitate the provision of fibre broadband to his neighbours, that's entirely up to him, and he's completely within his rights. But if a facade-mounted fibre solution requires financial compensation for every homeowner, it's just not financially viable.

That is a completely disingenuous argument. B4RN is a community owned operation. The majority shareholders are the people served by the project. SIRO is a profit oriented joint venture between a semi-state and a multi billion euro company.

Also there seems to be some disagreement with what is actually being proposed here. What Marlow posted seems different to what muffler describes. Why was he told he would need two of them?

I'd probably acquiesce to the request myself as I would want the service but I can see why muffler is taking the stance he is.

Marlow

Averi Cool Midget wrote: »

Why was he told he would need two of them?

It is probably different kit. If they told him 26 premises, then it could be the DP at the headend of a surface retractable solution, like the one in the picture i posted. Him seeing 40 houses doesn't make a difference .. because when they say 26 premises, then that's the amount of the ports in the DP. Not an inch more. That's probably what they stick on one OLT port. Lower contention than OpenEIR, if so.

I actually need to go on a scouting missing to find one and take a picture. They can probably also mount them on an ESB pole or a latern somewhere, as what they do with a lot of overhead stuff or construct a roadside cabinet or manhole to house them in.

Either way .. I understand where muffler comes from. So that's one thing.

But the other attitude here .. to think, that SIRO is going to make sh!tloads of money from this .. is completely wrong.

A couple facts:
- SIROs wholesale pricing up until 1.4. is based on OpenEIRs regulated pricing prior to Sept 2016 .. those figures are obtainable.
- The Gbit promotion means Gbit FTTH is sold at near 150 Mbit/s pricing level.
- 25% uptake on SIRO is also a well known estimated figure.

Based on the 26 premises being served from the gear, we're talking sub 1800 EUR/year of turnover before taxes coming from that installation. Under no circumstances 5 digit figures or more as others here assume.

/M

Johnboy1951

Averi Cool Midget wrote: »

That is a completely disingenuous argument. B4RN is a community owned operation. The majority shareholders are the people served by the project. SIRO is a profit oriented joint venture between a semi-state and a multi billion euro company.

Also there seems to be some disagreement with what is actually being proposed here. What Marlow posted seems different to what muffler describes. Why was he told he would need two of them?

I'd probably acquiesce to the request myself as I would want the service but I can see why muffler is taking the stance he is.

Muffler is lucky, as apparently he already has fibre installed IIUC, so he is in a position to negotiate.

That they were not even prepared to offer a free install (whatever about ongoing monthly sub( or indeed engage at all, then I completely agree with his stance.

They come 'begging' and are not prepared to talk?

Marlow

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

That they were not even prepared to offer a free install

It wouldn't wonder me, if the stance is, that demands are made from day 1, then their stance is probably that it's going to be trouble later on anyhow, so better not to do it. As I pointed out: there is very little in it for them margin wise to begin with.

/M

tsue921i8wljb3

Marlow wrote: »

It is probably different kit. If they told him 26 premises, then it could be the DP at the headend of a surface retractable solution, like the one in the picture i posted. Him seeing 40 houses doesn't make a difference .. because when they say 26 premises, then that's the amount of the ports in the DP. Not an inch more. That's probably what they stick on one OLT port. Lower contention than OpenEIR, if so.

I actually need to go on a scouting missing to find one and take a picture. They can probably also mount them on an ESB pole or a latern somewhere, as what they do with a lot of overhead stuff or construct a roadside cabinet or manhole to house them in.

Either way .. I understand where muffler comes from. So that's one thing.

But the other attitude here .. to think, that SIRO is going to make sh!tloads of money from this .. is completely wrong.

A couple facts:
- SIROs wholesale pricing up until 1.4. is based on OpenEIRs regulated pricing prior to Sept 2016 .. those figures are obtainable.
- The Gbit promotion means Gbit FTTH is sold at near 150 Mbit/s pricing level.
- 25% uptake on SIRO is also a well known estimated figure.

Based on the 26 premises being served from the gear, we're talking sub 1800 EUR/year of turnover before taxes coming from that installation. Under no circumstances 5 digit figures or more as others here assume.

/M

Any SIRO DPs I've seen are certainly not inconspicuous. They seem to wrap semi-luminous yellow tape around the cables going into them too which makes them stand out even more.

enfant terrible

Hi guys,

Just been cleared for Siro.

I'm still using an old Slingbox that needs port 5001 open.

Would I have trouble opening this port with any of the routers supplied by vodafone, sky, digiweb etc?

Marlow

enfant terrible wrote: »

I'm still using an old Slingbox that needs port 5001 open.

Would I have trouble opening this port with any of the routers supplied by vodafone, sky, digiweb etc?

Airwire, Digiweb, Carnsore Broadband and Westnet are using the Fritz!Box. No problems opening ports there. Rocket and Kerry Broadband probably also use that router.

Vodafone ... dunno.

Sky .. that thing is fairly locked down. You can't even change the DNS server in it.

/M

tsue921i8wljb3

Not so neat cabling here except for the one premises that obviously requested it be hidden.

Marlow

Averi Cool Midget wrote: »

Not so neat cabling here except for the one premises that obviously requested it be hidden.

A good few of the shops on the road, where I took my picture, have been painted since. Cables and boxes also.

You can't really make it out, once somebody has pained over the cable.

I can see though, how somebody would request that. On the other hand, it's not an easy job for the installers to get at that cable, if they ever need to.

/M

muffler

Averi Cool Midget wrote: »

What Marlow posted seems different to what muffler describes. Why was he told he would need two of them?

I'll clarify this as best I can. Im in an "end of terrace" 2 storey house. Behind me is a another row of terraced houses which run parallel to the row of houses where I am.

SIRO want to take a cable from a pole on the far side of the road (underground) until it gets to my gable wall and then up the wall and into box A. Box A would be located to the front part of the gable and the proposal was to take a lead from it and run it across the fronts of all the houses in my terrace which consists of 3 blocks of 7 houses.

Then they proposed to take another cable from box A and run it horizontally along the gable wall to box B which would be fitted near the rear end of the gable. A lead would then be taken from box B and run overhead to the "end of terrace house" directly behind me.

@ Marlow. From day 1 I said I would co-operate as best I could while reserving the right to protect my family home and not have restrictions imposed. They were clearly told that I would also be willing to accommodate the neighnours but when they have now adopted the stance of "take it or leave it" Im not left with much choice in the matter.

Marlow

Aye. That very much sounds like 1 DP servicing a surface retractable solution and then probably an optical coupler for the second segment.

/M

enfant terrible

Marlow wrote: »

Airwire, Digiweb, Carnsore Broadband and Westnet are using the Fritz!Box. No problems opening ports there. Rocket and Kerry Broadband probably also use that router.

Vodafone ... dunno.

Sky .. that thing is fairly locked down. You can't even change the DNS server in it.

/M

Thanks Marlow,

Currently have a Vodafone HG658c router, anyone know if they use this router for Siro?

tsue921i8wljb3

muffler wrote: »

I'll clarify this as best I can. Im in an "end of terrace" 2 storey house. Behind me is a another row of terraced houses which run parallel to the row of houses where I am.

SIRO want to take a cable from a pole on the far side of the road (underground) until it gets to my gable wall and then up the wall and into box A. Box A would be located to the front part of the gable and the proposal was to take a lead from it and run it across the fronts of all the houses in my terrace which consists of 3 blocks of 7 houses.

Then they proposed to take another cable from box A and run it horizontally along the gable wall to box B which would be fitted near the rear end of the gable. A lead would then be taken from box B and run overhead to the "end of terrace house" directly behind me.

@ Marlow. From day 1 I said I would co-operate as best I could while reserving the right to protect my family home and not have restrictions imposed. They were clearly told that I would also be willing to accommodate the neighnours but when they have now adopted the stance of "take it or leave it" Im not left with much choice in the matter.

Ask them for pictures and exact dimensions of what they propose. Post them here if you can.

Johnboy1951

Marlow wrote: »

It wouldn't wonder me, if the stance is, that demands are made from day 1, then their stance is probably that it's going to be trouble later on anyhow, so better not to do it. As I pointed out: there is very little in it for them margin wise to begin with.

/M

Very little in the short term, yes.
But it is to be expected (and Siro & Openeir are betting on it) that the uptake will increase in the short term (5 years).
I would expect within 10 years that they will have 90%+ uptake.

Running fibre as you well know is a long term investment so IMO they should do it properly and not be using private houses as distribution points.

digiman

Marlow wrote: »

Where on earth did you come up with that figure ? It's more like 10k/year to them ... if all 40 houses sign up.

With 25% uptake currently, it's more like 2.5k/year. And that's before they've paid any bills.

At the quoted 26 houses with 25% uptake, it's sub 1800/year.

/M

And its costing them around 600 a home to build in the first place so 15.6k paid upfront before anyone takes up a service there. This is a long long term investment with a slow payback. VM would be a quicker return as they offer tv and other services and would have revenue which is between 2 and 5 times per customer.

Nevermind maintaining and running the network.

There is no profits to be made for quite a while yet and there is significant risk on their part that they could be out of business before they ever make a profit.

Unfortunately the attitude of many of the posters here already is that they need to negotiate better in such circumstances.

digiman

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Very little in the short term, yes.
But it is to be expected (and Siro & Openeir are betting on it) that the uptake will increase in the short term (5 years).
I would expect within 10 years that they will have 90%+ uptake.

Running fibre as you well know is a long term investment so IMO they should do it properly and not be using private houses as distribution points.

Once openeir getting going on their urban rolllout that 90% will be divided between at least 2 and in quite a few cases 3 access providers which is already the case today in a number of towns.

tsue921i8wljb3

digiman wrote: »

And its costing them around 600 a home to build in the first place so 15.6k paid upfront before anyone takes up a service there. This is a long long term investment with a slow payback. VM would be a quicker return as they offer tv and other services and would have revenue which is between 2 and 5 times per customer.

Nevermind maintaining and running the network.

There is no profits to be made for quite a while yet and there is significant risk on their part that they could be out of business before they ever make a profit.

Unfortunately the attitude of many of the posters here already is that they need to negotiate better in such circumstances.

Where I am coming from is that muffler is being asked to be in a somewhat unique situation relative to other premises in his area. This may materially affect the value of his home would he wish to sell and may limit his ability to extend. I do not believe that everybody that has the boxes posted by Marlow should be eligible for compensation or concession but someone going beyond as I believe muffler is being asked to should get some form of goodwill from SIRO IMO.

digiman

Averi Cool Midget wrote: »

Where I am coming from is that muffler is being asked to be in a somewhat unique situation relative to other premises in his area. This may materially affect the value of his home would he wish to sell and may limit his ability to extend. I do not believe that everybody that has the boxes posted by Marlow should be eligible for compensation or concession but someone going beyond as I believe muffler is being asked to should get some form of goodwill from SIRO IMO.

A box or a cable, in a facade situation one or both will be on your house.

You could argue that if Muffler doesn't agree then all 26 houses lose out. But just say SIRO do give him free install or free service for some period of time. Then his enterprising next door neighbor must agree or 25 people lose out so he thinks he should also be compensated as he now becomes the man in charge. All he has to say is that I don't want any cable on the facade of my house.

So in the end where do you draw the line? The attitude is that Siro are playing poker with these guys and bluffing, they are very unlikely to be playing every situation on such a micro level.

Johnboy1951

digiman wrote: »

And its costing them around 600 a home to build in the first place so 15.6k paid upfront before anyone takes up a service there. This is a long long term investment with a slow payback. VM would be a quicker return as they offer tv and other services and would have revenue which is between 2 and 5 times per customer.

Nevermind maintaining and running the network.

There is no profits to be made for quite a while yet and there is significant risk on their part that they could be out of business before they ever make a profit.

Unfortunately the attitude of many of the posters here already is that they need to negotiate better in such circumstances.

Not better ....... but if Siro is requesting something extraordinary, and then are not willing to discuss the situation that acquiescing to their request would raise, then why should someone make any concessions for their commercial roll out, particular one that could have serious repercussions for the home owner in the future?

tsue921i8wljb3

digiman wrote: »

A box or a cable, in a facade situation one or both will be on your house.

You could argue that if Muffler doesn't agree then all 26 houses lose out. But just say SIRO do give him free install or free service for some period of time. Then his enterprising next door neighbor must agree or 25 people lose out so he thinks he should also be compensated as he now becomes the man in charge. All he has to say is that I don't want any cable on the facade of my house.

So in the end where do you draw the line? The attitude is that Siro are playing poker with these guys and bluffing, they are very unlikely to be playing every situation on such a micro level.

I don't know if I am misunderstanding the situation here or what. In my view muffler is being ask to put equipment (boxes, DPs, whatever) that his neighbours are not being asked to. In my view that makes his situation different to his next door neighbour.

I can see your point about others then trying to hold SIRO to hostage as it were but I don't think SIRO should give in to such intimidation. Surely this all could be accounted for with strong legal agreements before the build takes place. Special circumstances get special treatment.