SIRO - ESB/Vodafone Fibre To The Home

ardmacha

mass_debater wrote: »

That'll not happen, VDSL barely does 2km. We need to forget about copper, all plans should be about replacing it

Fibre cannot be distributed immediately to the entire country. There are going to be situations where fibre is nearby in the short term and existing copper should be used for the present until the rollout is complete. Everyone's attitude here seems to be that if you are on one of the early rollouts great, otherwise tough, the 2Mb will do you. Something in between is appropriate. Which should Vodafone, ESB's partner not service a cabinet on the network?

it seems to me that this is one important factor, a second is some provision to allow Eircom decommission the copper network and provide service over fibre, including ESB fibre.

mass_debater

ardmacha wrote: »

Fibre cannot be distributed immediately to the entire country. There are going to be situations where fibre is nearby in the short term and existing copper should be used for the present until the rollout is complete. Everyone's attitude here seems to be that if you are on one of the early rollouts great, otherwise tough, the 2Mb will do you. Something in between is appropriate. Which should Vodafone, ESB's partner not service a cabinet on the network?

it seems to me that this is one important factor, a second is some provision to allow Eircom decommission the copper network and provide service over fibre, including ESB fibre.

This rollout has nothing to do with Eircom copper, it's a private joint venture between two companies. You need to check out the other thread about the National Broadband Plan, nothing to do with this JV

bk

ardmacha wrote: »

Fibre cannot be distributed immediately to the entire country. There are going to be situations where fibre is nearby in the short term and existing copper should be used for the present until the rollout is complete. Everyone's attitude here seems to be that if you are on one of the early rollouts great, otherwise tough, the 2Mb will do you. Something in between is appropriate. Which should Vodafone, ESB's partner not service a cabinet on the network?

it seems to me that this is one important factor, a second is some provision to allow Eircom decommission the copper network and provide service over fibre, including ESB fibre.

The ESB do in fact sell access to their fiber backhaul to almost every telecoms company in Ireland, including UPC, Vodafone, BT, Three, Meteor, etc.

See here:
http://www.esbtelecoms.ie/about_us/customers.htm

There is absolutely nothing stopping Eircom also buying access to this network and using it to connect their Exchanges via this fiber.

I assume they don't do this, because Eircom has the largest fiber network in the country and are a major competitor of ESB Telecoms and thus Eircom would probably prefer to expand their own fiber network then rent a competitors network. It is also probably cheaper for them to do so in the long term.

Eircom have in fact been making intermediary steps. The entire VDSL project is basically a massive intermediary step to FTTH. They have also been bringing fiber to many rural exchanges, thus brining them on the NGN and thus increasing backhaul bandwidth. Finally they also seem to have started in some cases moving ADSL2+ DSLAMS from urban exchanges that have now largely gone VDSL to rural exchanges that only had ADSL until now.

All these are good intermediary steps, but unfortunately they still take time. People forget that Eircom has over 1,200 exchanges, it takes time to upgrade those all.

rob808

bk wrote: »

The ESB do in fact sell access to their fiber backhaul to almost every telecoms company in Ireland, including UPC, Vodafone, BT, Three, Meteor, etc.

See here:
http://www.esbtelecoms.ie/about_us/customers.htm

There is absolutely nothing stopping Eircom also buying access to this network and using it to connect their Exchanges via this fiber.

I assume they don't do this, because Eircom has the largest fiber network in the country and are a major competitor of ESB Telecoms and thus Eircom would probably prefer to expand their own fiber network then rent a competitors network. It is also probably cheaper for them to do so in the long term.

Eircom have in fact been making intermediary steps. The entire VDSL project is basically a massive intermediary step to FTTH. They have also been bringing fiber to many rural exchanges, thus brining them on the NGN and thus increasing backhaul bandwidth. Finally they also seem to have started in some cases moving ADSL2+ DSLAMS from urban exchanges that have now largely gone VDSL to rural exchanges that only had ADSL until now.

All these are good intermediary steps, but unfortunately they still take time. People forget that Eircom has over 1,200 exchanges, it takes time to upgrade those all.

That good that there letting wireless company in on there network so they won't object to FTTH hopefully with there new announcement it make clear to the government FTTH the way forward for NBP fingers crossed.

bk

rob808 wrote: »

That good that there letting wireless company in on there network so they won't object to FTTH hopefully with there new announcement it make clear to the government FTTH the way forward for NBP fingers crossed.

Oh no, they will still complain and whine!

Imagine are already whining that the NBP highly favours wired solutions only (rightfully so) and that it maybe challenged in court and thus held up.

These companies have no interest in seeing the people of Ireland getting the best solution possible. Only lining their own pockets.

MajesticDonkey

bk wrote: »

Imagine are already whining that the NBP highly favours wired solutions only (rightfully so) and that it maybe challenged in court and thus held up.

These companies have no interest in seeing the people of Ireland getting the best solution possible. Only lining their own pockets.

Do you, or anyone for that matter, know of the legalities surrounding this? What chance do WISPs have of overturning a decision that fibre is the way to go, and thus, doing them out of jobs?

rob808

bk wrote: »

Oh no, they will still complain and whine!

Imagine are already whining that the NBP highly favours wired solutions only (rightfully so) and that it maybe challenged in court and thus held up.

These companies have no interest in seeing the people of Ireland getting the best solution possible. Only lining their own pockets.

Imagine are a terrible company anyway they could sell FTTH products and still make profits using ESB and vodafone network .I hope nobody listen to them in NBP. I hope they only use a small percentage for wireless and the rest fibre.

ItHurtsWhenIP

bk wrote: »

Oh no, they will still complain and whine!

Imagine are already whining that the NBP highly favours wired solutions only (rightfully so) and that it maybe challenged in court and thus held up.

These companies have no interest in seeing the people of Ireland getting the best solution possible. Only lining their own pockets.

I had a chat with a DCENR representative today at a conference. While the stated goal of the NBP is for 30Mbps downstream, they have reduced the upstream requirement from 10Mbps to 6Mbps in order to give the WISPs a "fair chance" of making a competitive submission for the NBP. Imagine are the only WISP that has engaged with them so far.

However the companies tendering for the NBP also have to show what they plan to deliver over the 15-20 years of the NBP contract, as 30/6Mbps now will not be sufficient in 3-5 years (IMO).

I'd love to see what snake oil the WISPs try to show that they could, for example, deliver 250Mbps by 2030! :P

rob808

MMFITWGDV wrote: »

I had a chat with a DCENR representative today at a conference. While the stated goal of the NBP is for 30Mbps downstream, they have reduced the upstream requirement from 10Mbps to 6Mbps in order to give the WISPs a "fair chance" of making a competitive submission for the NBP. Imagine are the only WISP that has engaged with them so far.

However the companies tendering for the NBP also have to show what they plan to deliver over the 15-20 years of the NBP contract, as 30/6Mbps now will not be sufficient in 3-5 years (IMO).

I'd love to see what snake oil the WISPs try to show that they could, for example, deliver 250Mbps by 2030! :P

Dam that imagine wouldn't touch there wireless broadband rather be stuck on my 3mb than be with that company again.

Johnboy1951

MMFITWGDV wrote: »

I had a chat with a DCENR representative today at a conference. While the stated goal of the NBP is for 30Mbps downstream, they have reduced the upstream requirement from 10Mbps to 6Mbps in order to give the WISPs a "fair chance" of making a competitive submission for the NBP. Imagine are the only WISP that has engaged with them so far.

However the companies tendering for the NBP also have to show what they plan to deliver over the 15-20 years of the NBP contract, as 30/6Mbps now will not be sufficient in 3-5 years (IMO).

I'd love to see what snake oil the WISPs try to show that they could, for example, deliver 250Mbps by 2030! :P

What a bloody awful thing to do!

That is the most ridiculous thing I ever heard of when tendering for something.

rob808

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

What a bloody awful thing to do!

That is the most ridiculous thing I ever heard of when tendering for something.

it terrible I hope ESB and vodafone win it if not them Eircom rather than imagine if they won it imagine the broadband :eek:Haha it be terrible.

ED E

rob808 wrote: »

it terrible I hope ESB and vodafone win it if not them Eircom rather than imagine if they won it imagine the broadband :eek:Haha it be terrible.

Three got the last deal sure, anything could happen (unfortunately).

rob808

ED E wrote: »

Three got the last deal sure, anything could happen (unfortunately).

let hope not but we're in Ireland :P

yuloni

This post has been deleted.

Villain

yuloni wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

In the short to medium term WISPs are the only hope for rural areas, fiber is a long term dream for most areas and I sadly think that will remain for 10 plus years.

rob808

Villain wrote: »

In the short to medium term WISPs are the only hope for rural areas, fiber is a long term dream for most areas and I sadly think that will remain for 10 plus years.

Wisp have a place in NBP but should be small they only hold up rural Ireland were as Esb and Vodafone could bring FTTH to us with the electric poles given the government give them the right money.If the same thing happen again people in rural Ireland need to give up and except we never have good broadband ever:(.

dbit

rob808 wrote: »

Wisp have a place in NBP but should be small they only hold up rural Ireland were as Esb and Vodafone could bring FTTH to us with the electric poles given the government give them the right money.If the same thing happen again people in rural Ireland need to give up and except we never have good broadband ever:(.

Not acceptable , where is your fighting Irish attitude ? I think people will begin(Or have to begin ) to take matters into their own hands. Lots of towns will have over the top broadband available to them over the next 2 years . I would have no shame in walking up to those esb customers and asking hows about i pay for half your broadband bill ? hell I would even pay the whole Bill if i could get a ubiquiti wifi relay going from one of them ?

jca

dbit wrote: »

Not acceptable , where is your fighting Irish attitude ? I think people will begin(Or have to begin ) to take matters into their own hands. Lots of towns will have over the top broadband available to them over the next 2 years . I would have no shame in walking up to those esb customers and asking hows about i pay for half your broadband bill ? hell I would even pay the whole the whole Bill if i could get a ubiquiti wifi relay going from one of them ?

Guys like you are the reason to regularly change my WiFi password.

dbit

jca wrote: »

Guys like you are the reason to regularly change my WiFi password.

Just keep your WPS off , and use as many characters as possible with alpha's upper and lower and numeric, then guys like me cant really do much. Change your SSID often so the salt value keeps the keys in rotation ? What do you mean by that exactly ?


Changing wifi password does sweet FA once keys are decrypted anyway.

Villain

jca wrote: »

Guys like you are the reason to regularly change my WiFi password.

Not sure how someone offering to pay to share a connection means you should change your key often!

mass_debater

Can we please go back on topic, I open this thread each time expecting juicy news only to be let down.

Johnboy1951

Villain wrote: »

In the short to medium term WISPs are the only hope for rural areas, fiber is a long term dream for most areas and I sadly think that will remain for 10 plus years.

I disagree.
If WISPs are given the concessions which allow them to take part in the NBP that will set back service to rural Ireland for a lot longer.

As a rural dweller I would much prefer that fibre is rolled out to everyone as promised ..... even if that means waiting an extra couple of years ......... as opposed to getting an interim service now which would not be changed for a couple of decades, if ever!

No thanks!
We wants FTTH!

Villain

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

I disagree.
If WISPs are given the concessions which allow them to take part in the NBP that will set back service to rural Ireland for a lot longer.

As a rural dweller I would much prefer that fibre is rolled out to everyone as promised ..... even if that means waiting an extra couple of years ......... as opposed to getting an interim service now which would not be changed for a couple of decades, if ever!

No thanks!
We wants FTTH!

The problem is realistically you will be waiting for many years maybe decades, it is not going to be economically viable for many rural areas to get FTTH and if WISPS can deliver an interim service that meets the 30/6mb requirement until the Government can manage to fund the non-viable areas (easier said than done with EU rules) .

MajesticDonkey

Villain wrote: »

The problem is realistically you will be waiting for many years maybe decades, it is not going to be economically viable for many rural areas to get FTTH and if WISPS can deliver an interim service that meets the 30/6mb requirement until the Government can manage to fund the non-viable areas (easier said than done with EU rules) .

Except...as already stated in this thread, a rural-fibre rollout would likely cost the same if not less than a rural-wireless rollout.

Villain

MajesticDonkey wrote: »

Except...as already stated in this thread, a rural-fibre rollout would likely cost the same if not less than a rural-wireless rollout.

A lot of the rural wireless setups are in place, e.g. there are 5 in my area outside Carlow

ItHurtsWhenIP

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

I disagree.
If WISPs are given the concessions which allow them to take part in the NBP that will set back service to rural Ireland for a lot longer.

As a rural dweller I would much prefer that fibre is rolled out to everyone as promised ..... even if that means waiting an extra couple of years ......... as opposed to getting an interim service now which would not be changed for a couple of decades, if ever!

No thanks!
We wants FTTH!

Amen Brother!

Gonzo

I have to agree as much as I want a decent fibre network in place throughout rural Ireland, even if it's gonna take the next 10 years, I'd rather wait 10 years for it then have a wireless service which would be nowhere nearly as good.

dbit

Gonzo wrote: »

I have to agree as much as I want a decent fibre network in place throughout rural Ireland, even if it's gonna take the next 10 years, I'd rather wait 10 years for it then have a wireless service which would be nowhere nearly as good.

Seriously though?, really,....... you would rather wait 10 years for a fiber when wisps (With nearby fiber backhauls) can realistically provide a decent synchronous connection of say around 30/10 ?? . Im screaming take my money im afraid . I don't see it having a long term impact on the fiber plans re NBP or efiber as ESB will want to mop up all those 100 home areas that eircom will no doubt avoid . ( they have publicly stated it which is ballsy in my eyes, nothing like that being stated by any other carrier)

Edit : oops synchronous of 30/10 lols 30/30 timing bla bla bla.

ED E

It doesnt have to be all or nothing here.

Allow the WISPs to operate privately, but do not allow them to impede FTTH or sop up subsidizing. As the fibre access network pushes further out to the countryside it'll provide them with better backhaul with which to supply their subs with increased performance, but eventually they'll need to change business model.

Nothing stopping them starting local GPON schemes to interconnect with the big players like what B4RN have been doing.

realdanbreen

Vodafone phone & broadband is down today in Limerick, any other areas having problems?