SIRO - ESB/Vodafone Fibre To The Home

dbit

Well that shoves the notion that they wont install into already fiber enabled areas then .

bk

dbit wrote: »

Well that shoves the notion that they wont install into already fiber enabled areas then .

I don't think any such notion ever existed?

They said that for the most part * they won't target UPC areas, at least in the first phase.

* I'm sure it will happen in the odd case.

But the plan was always target Eircom ADSL and FTTC areas.

This makes sense as UPC could turn on at least 500Mb/s and perhaps even 1Gb/s almost overnight if SIRO entered their areas. So SIRO would have no major selling point over UPC.

But 100Mb/s FTTC doesn't look so great compared to 1Gb/s FTTH, so SIRO would have a distinct competitive advantage here.

However it will be interesting to see if SIRO and Eircom go head to head with FTTH in the same areas.

TireeTerror

bk wrote: »

I don't think any such notion ever existed?

They said that for the most part * they won't target UPC areas, at least in the first phase.

* I'm sure it will happen in the odd case.

But the plan was always target Eircom ADSL and FTTC areas.

This makes sense as UPC could turn on at least 500Mb/s and perhaps even 1Gb/s almost overnight if SIRO entered their areas. So SIRO would have no major selling point over UPC.

But 100Mb/s FTTC doesn't look so great compared to 1Gb/s FTTH, so SIRO would have a distinct competitive advantage here.

However it will be interesting to see if SIRO and Eircom go head to head with FTTH in the same areas.

Eircom have no need to go "head to head" with SIRO, they will be selling SIRO. My understanding is that SIRO will not be sold to the public directly, it will be resellers like Eircom and Vodafone etc who will be selling it.

In fact only today I was driving in Sligo and I saw a huge Eircom billboard stating that Eircom 1000Mb will be coming soon, and there was a huge SIRO logo on the bill advert also.

ED E

TireeTerror wrote: »

Eircom have no need to go "head to head" with SIRO, they will be selling SIRO. My understanding is that SIRO will not be sold to the public directly, it will be resellers like Eircom and Vodafone etc who will be selling it.

In fact only today I was driving in Sligo and I saw a huge Eircom billboard stating that Eircom 1000Mb will be coming soon, and there was a huge SIRO logo on the bill advert also.

We've seen no indication to date that eircom will buy a wholesale product from SIRO. By using their own wholesale and retail the eircom Group as a whole maintains its profit margins.

TireeTerror

ED E wrote: »

We've seen no indication to date that eircom will buy a wholesale product from SIRO. By using their own wholesale and retail the eircom Group as a whole maintains its profit margins.

Actually I just drove out and looked at the billboard properly. It doesnt have the SIRO logo on it. However Sligo is scheduled to have SIRO installed this year and on the billboard they specifically mention the service will be here in 2015. So unless for some bizarre reason Eircom decide to go out and also install FTTH in the same area as SIRO at the same time, then its safe to say that Eircom will be reselling it.

dbit

TireeTerror wrote: »

Eircom have no need to go "head to head" with SIRO, they will be selling SIRO. My understanding is that SIRO will not be sold to the public directly, it will be resellers like Eircom and Vodafone etc who will be selling it.

In fact only today I was driving in Sligo and I saw a huge Eircom billboard stating that Eircom 1000Mb will be coming soon, and there was a huge SIRO logo on the bill advert also.

Jaysus i dunno about that , Eircom after all want to be the provider to resellers not the other way around , maybe for a period until they blow fiber from cab to homes they may consider it as a temp work around , but then they risk brand penetration in homes not being them , and then there is Eircoms track record to consider ??? interesting to see what will happen.

ED E

TireeTerror wrote: »

Actually I just drove out and looked at the billboard properly. It doesnt have the SIRO logo on it. However Sligo is scheduled to have SIRO installed this year and on the billboard they specifically mention the service will be here in 2015. So unless for some bizarre reason Eircom decide to go out and also install FTTH in the same area as SIRO at the same time, then its safe to say that Eircom will be reselling it.

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[COLOR="Red"]Sligo[/COLOR]
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Eircom are currently ahead in this race, its likely this is just their own GPON network.

TireeTerror

dbit wrote: »

Jaysus i dunno about that , Eircom after all want to be the provider to resellers not the other way around , maybe for a period until they blow fiber from cab to homes they may consider it as a temp work around , but then they risk brand penetration in homes not being them , and then there is Eircoms track record to consider ??? interesting to see what will happen.

No reason why Eircom Retail couldnt sell SIRO. Wholesale of course provide their own network, but its hardly going to be cost effective to have two 1000Mb networks in the same street when there are many areas with no choice. Why on earth would they squander even more money when the reality is they would guarantee customers in an area that doesnt have SIRO in it.

This is the web address on the billboard. http://www.eircom.net/ultrafast/

The actual billboard was the image here, except it says "Landing soon in Sligo" and "Launching 2015". It also mentions its subject to availability and that "speeds may vary".

I was under the impression that SIRO guaranteed speeds, so you never know, perhaps Eircom have decided they want to install an inferior 1000Mb product or they are just covering themselves.

I did actually take a photo with my camera, but its being an idiot and I cannot find the data cable.

EDIT : I see Eircom have already stated they will be providing a FTTH product in the same areas as SIRO, so it seems indeed that this will be a direct competitor to SIRO. So if SIRO are guaranteeing speeds and Eircom are not, I wonder how that will play out in practice. I can predict a huge amount of misselling by reps when this all launches!

neacy69

dxhound2005 wrote: »

About three weeks ago 2 SIRO/ESB vans parked outside my house at lunchtime on Saturday. The two drivers were having their sandwiches. I wanted to see if they had any knowledge of ESB wires and poles causing interference with my radio reception which is a separate issue.

First guy had no English, referred me to the second one, who had some English. Both Polish. He said they were surveying the lines for FTTH. I am in a housing estate on the Avenue Road, Dundalk 2 miles from the town centre and I have FTTC from Eircom.

Got a notice from the ESB today saying power will be out Sunday 16th between 9 and 4 In order to facilitate the rollout of fibre network. So something is happening.

Had a similar experience with a lad in a SIRO van in my estate this morning....Nice chap - not much English - told me he was surveying/measuring the lines for SIRO and that it would be available in my estate. Happy days!

I'm the Avenue road side of the red barns road

bk

TireeTerror wrote: »

Eircom have no need to go "head to head" with SIRO, they will be selling SIRO. My understanding is that SIRO will not be sold to the public directly, it will be resellers like Eircom and Vodafone etc who will be selling it.

In fact only today I was driving in Sligo and I saw a huge Eircom billboard stating that Eircom 1000Mb will be coming soon, and there was a huge SIRO logo on the bill advert also.

While Eircom retail could re-sell SIRO, so far there is no indication they will and I would be shocked if they did!

Their is very little profit in being a re-seller, Eircom want to own the network, that is where most of the money is.

When Eircom talks about Ultrafast, they are talking about their own GPON FTTH network currently being deployed by Eircom Wholesale. It has nothing to do with SIRO.

Having said that, I wouldn't be surprised if eventually SIRO and Eircom come to an agreement to share their FTTH networks (at a lower level then Bitstream wholesale) and not overlap. But at the moment they both seem to be rushing to rollout their own networks as quickly as possible. Possibly with the hope of scaring the other off. Or at least to have a better negotiating position if they do decide to share their networks.

ItHurtsWhenIP

Folks,

I think I said it some months back. If you compare the Eircom 66 Towns with the Siro 50 towns, there are only 10 places that Eircom are going that Siro aren't. Athy, Bandon, Dublin, Dungarvan, Edenderry, Kinnegad, Loughrea, Nenagh, Portarlington and Roscrea. So there must be either overlap, or they have agreed to not run two lots of fibre on the same streets.

Siro is actually more than 50 towns, as they count some multiple places as one ... Swords, Malahide & Portmarnock are down as 1 as opposed to 3 separate places on Eircom.

So there's something like 56 towns getting both Eircom and Siro!!! :eek:

I only want one ... <sniff> ... I'm not greedy :rolleyes:

SpaceTime

They probably couldn't agree to not install in areas with UPC rollout or eircom FTTx.

It could be seen as collusion and price fixing under completion law oddly enough. Operators aren't allowed to have non-compete arrangements and it would likely create a scenario where it would be investigated.

bk

SpaceTime wrote: »

It could be seen as collusion and price fixing under completion law oddly enough. Operators aren't allowed to have non-compete arrangements and it would likely create a scenario where it would be investigated.

You are right, but instead they could join in a co-investment, just like Vodafone and Orange did in Spain:

Vodafone and Orange aim to provide six million households and workplaces in Spain with FTTH technology within five years after signing a co-investment agreement.

The deal is expected to require €1 billion in capex, according to the operators.

In a statement, Vodafone and Orange said the deal will increase fibre deployment efficiencies and maximise returns on investment for both operators.

Under the terms of the agreement, which will cover up 50 major cities, the two operators will each deploy street-level fibre in complementary geographies.

The fibre will be owned independently but will share the same technical specifications to ensure compatibility as a single network, and each partner will have guaranteed access to the whole infrastructure.

http://www.eurocomms.com/industry-news/49-online-press/8935-vodafone-and-orange-join-forces-to-deploy-ftth-in-spain-

Nollog

I really doubt eircom are advertising the siro product.

They claim to have extra fibres under ever cab, and the amount of work they're doing suggests they're running their own fibres around the place.

SpaceTime

Eircom Ultrafast Fibre (1gbit) and Siro are two competing platforms.

You may end up with 3rd parties reselling both though as they'll both be available wholesale.

Mgit

TireeTerror wrote: »

Actually I just drove out and looked at the billboard properly. It doesnt have the SIRO logo on it. However Sligo is scheduled to have SIRO installed this year and on the billboard they specifically mention the service will be here in 2015. So unless for some bizarre reason Eircom decide to go out and also install FTTH in the same area as SIRO at the same time, then its safe to say that Eircom will be reselling it.

If you look on the eircom wholesale website there is a video of them pulling fibre into houses in sligo. They are actually showing them installing ftth in Yeats Heights which is in ballinode. This video is between 6 months and 1 year old. Not sure if yeats heights was the only estate done already. Maybe it was one off for the promotional video.

On another note i wonder how siro will get the fibre into the houses. If they blow it up the pipe to the esb meter that mightnt be very convenient as if they drill through the wall behind the meter that might not be a good location in allot of houses for a balanced wifi signal etc. Unless people have cat 5 1gb will be a waste of time as wifi speeds drop dramatically unless you are in the same room as the wifi.

SpaceTime

Mgit wrote: »

If you look on the eircom wholesale website there is a video of them pulling fibre into houses in sligo. They are actually showing them installing ftth in Yeats Heights which is in ballinode. This video is between 6 months and 1 year old. Not sure if yeats heights was the only estate done already. Maybe it was one off for the promotional video.

On another note i wonder how siro will get the fibre into the houses. If they blow it up the pipe to the esb meter that mightnt be very convenient as if they drill through the wall behind the meter that might not be a good location in allot of houses for a balanced wifi signal etc. Unless people have cat 5 1gb will be a waste of time as wifi speeds drop dramatically unless you are in the same room as the wifi.

You can run the fibre in further than the meter.

(If you drilled from my meter, the modem would be going into the boiler house)

ItHurtsWhenIP

SpaceTime wrote: »

Eircom Ultrafast Fibre (1gbit) and Siro are two competing platforms.

You may end up with 3rd parties reselling both though as they'll both be available wholesale.

So why would they run two lots of fibres into the same area? They are not providing the service, only the infrastructure.

It's down to the ISPs to offer a service on the fibre. If both fibres passed my house, then the likes of, say, Munster Broadband would be able to sell me a FTTH package on either Eircom or Siro fibre. Would I choose or would MBB choose? It would make a very difficult economic proposition as one fibre may be chosen more than the other and so the investment would not pay back for the poorly performing one. Obviously Eircom Retail will push their wholesale arm's product and Vodafone would likely push Siro's.

Granted I would prefer to be able to get service off the Siro platform rather than Eircom, as they are providing symmetrical speeds.

Mgit

SpaceTime wrote: »

You can run the fibre in further than the meter.

(If you drilled from my meter, the modem would be going into the boiler house)

Running it further might be harder than you think without doing a messy job of tacking cables to walls etc. I also hope they dont leave the fibre exposed in meter box where it can be easily cut or it will make it easy for burglars to kill off alarm systems.
Most 3 bed semis have the esb meter backing onto hallway so i guess they will be easy to do as eicom socket is usually in hallway anyway.

PeadarB

Looking at the respective roll out maps Siro plan to connect 18,500 premises in Dundalk. Eircom, on the other hand, plan 13,300.

Why is there such a big difference in projected FTTH connections in Dundalk? Will this be repeated in other locations?

It occurs to me that SIRO are looking at deeper penetration of FTTH using both underground and overhead runs.

KOR101

PeadarB wrote: »

Looking at the respective roll out maps Siro plan to connect 18,500 premises in Dundalk. Eircom, on the other hand, plan 13,000.

Are any homes being connected automatically? Or, is it all on a On-Demand basis? If you're running fibre to my neighbour, is it easier just to do me at the same time?

rustalan

PeadarB wrote: »

Looking at the respective roll out maps Siro plan to connect 18,500 premises in Dundalk. Eircom, on the other hand, plan 13,300.

Why is there such a big difference in projected FTTH connections in Dundalk? Will this be repeated in other locations?

It occurs to me that SIRO are looking at deeper penetration of FTTH using both underground and overhead runs.

Have you seen a Siro Rollout map for Dundalk? Or an Eircom one for Dundalk FTTH?

PeadarB

KOR101 wrote: »

Are any homes being connected automatically? Or, is it all on a On-Demand basis? If you're running fibre to my neighbour, is it easier just to do me at the same time?

Eircom said theirs would be demand led per Richard Moat. http://www.independent.ie/business/richard-moat-the-fibre-diet-will-get-eircom-moving-again-30964828.html
Many estates in Letterkenny have had the fibre picked up from under the cabs and run to thoses estates with underground ducting already in place. I've tried to no avail to get info for those premises fed from eircom pole drops.

Siro would appear to be taking a catch all approach, given the proposed roll out numbers mentioned for Dundalk - http://siro.ie/towns/dundalk-fibre-to-the-building/

PeadarB

rustalan wrote: »

Have you seen a Siro Rollout map for Dundalk? Or an Eircom one for Dundalk FTTH?

Scroll in to street level for Dundalk and you will see the existing power infrastructure. I would expect Siro to cover as many premises as possible. http://siro.ie/roll-out/
Siro say they will cover 18,500 premises there.

Eircom has no street level map for FTTH. Each cabinet has up to 20 spare fibres lying beheath it. They say on their map for Dundalk that 13,300 premises in this exchange can now access up to 100Mb/s fibre broadband. This is a planned FTTH exchange with speeds up to 1000Mb/s when complete. http://www.eircomwholesale.ie/Our_Network/

KeRbDoG

http://siro.ie/roll-out/

In the map view, the lines which don't join up but follow roads - are those meant to be powerlines which will be covered by SIRO when it comes to an area or did they just cheap-out on maps

enfant terrible

PeadarB wrote: »

Scroll in to street level for Dundalk and you will see the existing power infrastructure. I would expect Siro to cover as many premises as possible. http://siro.ie/roll-out/
Siro say they will cover 18,500 premises there.

Eircom has no street level map for FTTH. Each cabinet has up to 20 spare fibres lying beheath it. They say on their map for Dundalk that 13,300 premises in this exchange can now access up to 100Mb/s fibre broadband. This is a planned FTTH exchange with speeds up to 1000Mb/s when complete. http://www.eircomwholesale.ie/Our_Network/

If you are near a Core aggregation site on Eircom's network will you get 1000Mb/s speeds?

PeadarB

KeRbDoG wrote: »

http://siro.ie/roll-out/

In the map view, the lines which don't join up but follow roads - are those meant to be powerlines which will be covered by SIRO when it comes to an area or did they just cheap-out on maps

Looking at Letterkenny they appear to be 220/230v underground ducts. I hope they are!!!

rustalan

Any idea what the light grey arrows mean?

PeadarB

rustalan wrote: »

Any idea what the light grey arrows mean?

Road / traffic directions.

bk

MMFITWGDV wrote: »

So why would they run two lots of fibres into the same area? They are not providing the service, only the infrastructure.

That is like asking why do Eircom and UPC each of their own separate networks operating in the same areas.

Because you make more profit servicing even 50% of the people if you own the network, versus just being a re-seller of someone elses network.

The money is in owning the network.

If Eircom and UPC both can operate a profitable business only wining 50% of customers in UPC areas, there is no reason Eircom and SIRO can't do the same in non-UPC urban areas.

Of course they would prefer to have a monopoly, but they don't really get a choice in that.

I expect what will happen is that both Eircom and SIRO will run fiber down every street, passing homes, but won't actually connect the fiber right into the home until you actually order it. That is the norm with most FTTH networks around the world.

So for instance you might have both an Eircom Wholesale and a SIRO fiber running down your street outside your home, but not connected to your home. Then if you were to order a FTTH product from Eircom Wholesale, then they come back out and connect the fiber from the street to your house.

If a year later, you then decide to switch to Vodafone/SIRO, then they come out and run a new fiber to connect from your house to the SIRO fiber on the street.

One interesting and logical possibility here is that Eircom Wholesale and SIRO could come to an agreement to share the last 20 meter of fiber connecting your home to their network. So for instance, in the above scenario, when you order Vodafone/SIRO broadband, rather then running the second fiber, they instead unplug the original Eircom drop from the Eircom street fiber and connect it to the SIRO street fiber (or vice versa). Obviously there would have to be an agreement on this and it is probably early days for this yet.

As for your question about Monster Broadband. While possible for retail ISP's to use both networks, I doubt it will work out that way. I expect they will contract with either Eircom Wholesale or SIRO. Too much administrative trouble otherwise. The intersting scenario is where Vodafone continues to retail Eircom VDSL, but then switches those customers over to SIRO as it becomes available. That would probably piss Eircom off.