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SIRO - ESB/Vodafone Fibre To The Home

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    #2162
    damienirel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 949 ✭✭✭damienirel


    dbit wrote: »
    Well i think they see as with Eircom , Ara sure fu@k it there's no rush . Its not like anyone is challenging them right now nor into the near future . We all knew this would be the way it would go . Eircom as it is now i cannot see them blowing fiber from cabs anytime soon either.

    Spoke to a KN guy the other day at a garage and he had some very interesting insights that more or less back my attitude.

    Plenty of bullsh1t artist tweets from them thats about it .

    Yeah even the website is thin (siro) - it's like something that was knocked out in an hour.
    It's kind of weird maybe they know it's a flop in terms of business or something I dunno - it all stinks of $hit@

    Even this is a major fail:
    http://www.anglocelt.ie/news/roundup/articles/2015/08/26/4047110-broadband-gaff-by-vodafone-in-cavan/

    People on here about how great this fibre rollout in Ireland is going - get a fu@kin grip. It's going nowhere faster than you can imagine.


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    #2163
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,718 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    damienirel wrote: »
    People on here about how great this fibre rollout in Ireland is going - get a fu@kin grip. It's going nowhere faster than you can imagine.

    MOD: No attacking other posters here.

    I agree that we are all nervously waiting for the real launch of FTTH products here and that we are all waiting to see how truly widespread it will be and how it will be priced.

    However you have to understand what a massive undertaking this all is. Rolling out a whole new network is massive, it has only been done about three times in the past, Telecom Eireann rolling out phone lines, ESB electrification and to a lesser extent Chorus/NTL/UPC TV coax cable network. And they all took decades to rollout.

    It is a massive undertaking to build a whole new network from scratch and it certainly isn't going to happen overnight. From what we are hearing both SIRO and Eircom are quietly fibering up towns in preparation for the residential launch to come. There is no point in them saying much until they have a few towns actually wired up and ready to then start taking actual orders.

    I know it is frustrating, but we have to be patient and just wait and see.


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    #2164
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,718 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Having said that, I do have concerns.

    I'm certain the threat of SIRO forced Eircom to bring far forward it's plans to rollout FTTH. However in doing so that may have messed up SIRO's business plans and perhaps they are now reconsidering their investment?

    The danger of that, is that if SIRO decide not to rollout or largely reduce the size of their rollout, then Eircom would also likely significantly slow down their rollout.

    At the moment I kind of fell like with are in the quiet before the storm. Like two gunfighters at the OK coral, eyeing each other up before they draw.

    If SIRO go ahead with their investment, then things are going to rollout very quickly as Eircom and SIRO try and get as many towns and people before the other arrives.

    On the other hand SIRO might blink and decide to curtail their investment, which would mean everything will slow down and it will take much longer for us all to get FTTH. Oh it will eventually come either way, just how quickly is the question.

    Then there are some other questions. What happens if Vodafone decide to buy UPC as has been long rumoured?

    And what if SIRO and Eircom are having behind the scenes conversations about not overlapping on each others networks and come to an agreement to share each others networks as has happened in many other such rollouts in Europe.

    Lots of questions still to be answered.


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    #2165
    digiman
    Registered Users Posts: 4,217 ✭✭✭digiman


    bk wrote: »
    MOD: No attacking other posters here.

    I agree that we are all nervously waiting for the real launch of FTTH products here and that we are all waiting to see how truly widespread it will be and how it will be priced.

    However you have to understand what a massive undertaking this all is. Rolling out a whole new network is massive, it has only been done about three times in the past, Telecom Eireann rolling out phone lines, ESB electrification and to a lesser extent Chorus/NTL/UPC TV coax cable network. And they all took decades to rollout.

    It is a massive undertaking to build a whole new network from scratch and it certainly isn't going to happen overnight. From what we are hearing both SIRO and Eircom are quietly fibering up towns in preparation for the residential launch to come. There is no point in them saying much until they have a few towns actually wired up and ready to then start taking actual orders.

    I know it is frustrating, but we have to be patient and just wait and see.

    That makes sense, I would think that there is a huge amount of work involved in rolling out a brand new network when you have nothing to start with. Hiring staff, going through contract negotiations for multi millions for equipment and labour costs, trials and testing, ordering and billing systems and then eventually starting to build the brand new network. It would take quite a while even for the biggest most experienced network like Eircom to rollout as we have seen. Will be very interesting to see how it all goes, the competition between the 2 now should be great for the country if both have the funds to go to war properly. Lastly both will obviously need to make money for this to work so price points will be interesting to see.


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    #2166
    damienirel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 949 ✭✭✭damienirel


    bk wrote: »
    MOD: No attacking other posters here.
    Didn't direct that at anybody in particular but I see plenty of posters who seem to be very sympathetic to companies like Eircom - which makes me wonder what their motives are? This is after all a "open" forum.

    Slightly condescending telling me I have to understand how big this project is - I'm very aware of the massive undertaking thank you.

    My point is that there seems to be way too much emphasis nowadays on publicising/advertising products than focus on the product itself.
    The example of vodafone trying to sell its offering to people that couldn't even avail of it is yet again another example of this nonsense.

    I see very little happening in the near future as this is obviously seen a cost prohibitive project that will only properly go ahead with massive amounts of public funding which is even less likely. I would love to believe otherwise but nothing is indicating that.


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    #2167
    Nollog
    Registered Users Posts: 5,456 ✭✭✭Nollog


    damienirel wrote: »
    Even this is a major fail:
    http://www.anglocelt.ie/news/roundup/articles/2015/08/26/4047110-broadband-gaff-by-vodafone-in-cavan/

    So people in Cavan know the price?


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    #2168
    KeRbDoG
    Registered Users Posts: 4,252 ✭✭✭KeRbDoG


    damienirel wrote: »
    I see very little happening in the near future as this is obviously seen a cost prohibitive project that will only properly go ahead with massive amounts of public funding which is even less likely. I would love to believe otherwise but nothing is indicating that.
    I'm sure people thought the same for the FTTC rollout which is happening a lot quicker than people thought (in most areas) and from my understanding without public funding. I'm happy to be corrected.


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    #2169
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,021 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    The Akamai state of the internet reports show the huge impact that FTTC has had on Irish broadband in a very short space of time. For some reason, which I honestly can't fathom, Ireland has become a fertile breeding ground for faster and faster internet access.


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    #2170
    damienirel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 949 ✭✭✭damienirel


    murphaph wrote: »
    The Akamai state of the internet reports show the huge impact that FTTC has had on Irish broadband in a very short space of time. For some reason, which I honestly can't fathom, Ireland has become a fertile breeding ground for faster and faster internet access.

    Maybe the fact that we have a huge dependence on internet based industry.
    Unlike germany we have no heavy industries - very little manufacturing industries.
    So yeah we should have good internet - if we don't - we've not got much else to offer. Infrastructure is a key component in this country in providing jobs and we've neglected it for way way too long.


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    #2171
    damienirel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 949 ✭✭✭damienirel


    /\/ollog wrote: »
    So people in Cavan know the price?

    LOL! good one!


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    #2172
    damienirel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 949 ✭✭✭damienirel


    KeRbDoG wrote: »
    I'm sure people thought the same for the FTTC rollout which is happening a lot quicker than people thought (in most areas) and from my understanding without public funding. I'm happy to be corrected.

    Well what would be the consequences for eircom if they didn't start FTTC?
    I mean 3g/4g, upc, siro the number was up on line rental for 3/4mb lines.
    They saved their asses from extinction, that's all they've done.


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    #2173
    dbit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,322 ✭✭✭dbit


    damienirel wrote: »
    Maybe the fact that we have a huge dependence on internet based industry.
    Unlike germany we have no heavy industries - very little manufacturing industries.
    So yeah we should have good internet - if we don't - we've not got much else to offer. Infrastructure is a key component in this country in providing jobs and we've neglected it for way way too long.

    my vision on why we are climbing speed in our metro areas at least is due to the leaps and bounds in the sector and the technology revivlas that drive it , increasing speeds all the time and then there is the fact that we now have 3 major interconnect points for global ISP's and also the Global switch hub that is taking off now in mayo , cork and ....... ammm ..... cant remember the last place.


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    #2174
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,718 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    KeRbDoG wrote: »
    I'm sure people thought the same for the FTTC rollout which is happening a lot quicker than people thought (in most areas) and from my understanding without public funding. I'm happy to be corrected.

    Absolutely, when it was first announced, we were all very sceptical of it. At the time, Eircom had a terrible track record with it's rollouts of ADSL and ADSL2+.

    But we were very pleasantly surprised with how quickly and well the rollout went. It was probably one of the fastest rollout's of VDSL any where in Europe. It was like a whole new company.

    We are all now watching closely the FTTH rollout to see if they will repeat the same again * or will they return to their old ways.

    * With the understanding that FTTH is much more difficult and expensive then FTTC, so of course I'd expect it to take quiet a bit longer then the FTTC rollout, even if they go at it as fast as possible.
    murphaph wrote: »
    The Akamai state of the internet reports show the huge impact that FTTC has had on Irish broadband in a very short space of time. For some reason, which I honestly can't fathom, Ireland has become a fertile breeding ground for faster and faster internet access.

    Competition.

    UPC saw that there TV market was likely to shrink in the future, so they better invest and develop into new markets. They invested heavily in developing broadband and they priced it low, with high speeds and with lots of advertising, in order to win as many customers as possible.

    As a result, Eircom were losing customers hand over fist to UPC in the areas that UPC operated. As many as 50% of people in these areas migrated to UPC.

    As a result, Eircom had to respond with it's FTTC rollout to offer good enough broadband to try and stem the flow.

    I think they then also extended their network to non UPC areas as I say they heard rumours about the SIRO network far before any of us did. So I think they wanted to get a jump on SIRO in the rest of the country and even perhaps stop SIRO from launching by getting people on "good enough" VDSL.

    The ESB entering the telecoms market by building their own FTTH network has always made sense and frankly I'm surprised it didn't happen years ago, like it did in the Scandinavian countries.
    damienirel wrote: »
    So yeah we should have good internet - if we don't - we've not got much else to offer. Infrastructure is a key component in this country in providing jobs and we've neglected it for way way too long.

    I agree 100%.
    damienirel wrote: »
    Well what would be the consequences for eircom if they didn't start FTTC?
    I mean 3g/4g, upc, siro the number was up on line rental for 3/4mb lines.
    They saved their asses from extinction, that's all they've done.

    All true, they had to do something or they would have been wiped out.


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    #2175
    KeRbDoG
    Registered Users Posts: 4,252 ✭✭✭KeRbDoG


    damienirel wrote: »
    Well what would be the consequences for eircom if they didn't start FTTC?
    I mean 3g/4g, upc, siro the number was up on line rental for 3/4mb lines.
    They saved their asses from extinction, that's all they've done.

    As bk said, they would have been wiped out with other providers stepping in before them. I see the same happening with FTTC, if they don't get it done someone else will walk in, get the cable in the street/houses and Eircom have no up to date infrastructure to sell either direct or to wholesale customers


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    #2176
    damienirel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 949 ✭✭✭damienirel


    KeRbDoG wrote: »
    As bk said, they would have been wiped out with other providers stepping in before them. I see the same happening with FTTC, if they don't get it done someone else will walk in, get the cable in the street/houses and Eircom have no up to date infrastructure to sell either direct or to wholesale customers

    I think to understand the current situation you need to know the history:

    Eircom owns the telephone infrastructure - the copper pair which was once used exclusively for telephone was almost dead in the water. GSM had arrived - reliable and affordable and soon to be everywhere. Why bother with landlines?

    Eircom looked like a dead duck - until DSL added a new lease of life to the tired old copper network.
    Sure they spent a few quid here and there on exchanges etc. But the 20 blissful years of line rental has meant that Eircom are still here with their shareholders wondering what happened to the good old times 20 years of dosh rolling in for old hat.
    Now that Eircom are facing near certain death they have to reinvest, they actually have to provide the customers with something new -
    wow that must be an alien concept??

    If they don't get the finger out soon they will be kissing goodbye to plenty more disgruntled customers.

    I had hoped Siro had the pedigree and backing of ESB and would wipe the floor with them - however in recent weeks I'm beginning to fear they're not taking it seriously or aggressively enough - FTTH is the only solution that offers a 20 year solution and who knows may have a lot more.
    I can't believe how slowly this rollout is going - It's shooting fish in a barrel in suburban Ireland as far as customers go.


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    #2177
    jd
    Registered Users Posts: 5,699 ✭✭✭jd


    damienirel wrote: »
    But the 20 blissful years of line rental has meant that Eircom are still here with their shareholders wondering what happened to the good old times 20 years of dosh rolling in for old hat.
    Now that Eircom are facing near certain death they have to reinvest, they actually have to provide the customers with something new -
    wow that must be an alien concept??
    None of the shareholders of ~20 years ago still have shares in eircom - it's owned by a group of bondholders. The board, management team, shareholders are completely different.


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    #2178
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,021 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    Sshhh. Don't be letting facts get in the way of a rant about Eircom.


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    #2179
    damienirel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 949 ✭✭✭damienirel


    jd wrote: »
    None of the shareholders of ~20 years ago still have shares in eircom - it's owned by a group of bondholders. The board, management team, shareholders are completely different.

    Splitting hairs here bondholders vs. shareholders. hardly what's important.
    My point was investors own it and want to milk it for all they can.


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    #2180
    damienirel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 949 ✭✭✭damienirel


    murphaph wrote: »
    Sshhh. Don't be letting facts get in the way of a rant about Eircom.

    Are you working for them or one of the Bondholders?
    :D


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    #2181
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,021 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    Neither and don't know any employees or share or bondholders either. I can however recognise the transformation that has and is continuing to take place in Irish broadband and recognise Eircom's significant contribution to that transformation. I live in Germany and our legacy telco Deutsche Telekom is several years behind Eircom and yes we have communities still on dial up/ISDN even though we have far better preconditions for xdsl deployments as we have almost no one off or ribbon development. I can't believe the negativity on this forum sometimes. Ireland is roaring ahead in broadband development and it's moan moan moan regardless.


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    #2182
    damienirel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 949 ✭✭✭damienirel


    murphaph wrote: »
    Neither and don't know any employees or share or bondholders either. I can however recognise the transformation that has and is continuing to take place in Irish broadband and recognise Eircom's significant contribution to that transformation. I live in Germany and our legacy telco Deutsche Telekom is several years behind Eircom and yes we have communities still on dial up/ISDN even though we have far better preconditions for xdsl deployments as we have almost no one off or ribbon development. I can't believe the negativity on this forum sometimes. Ireland is roaring ahead in broadband development and it's moan moan moan regardless.

    So you're reading all the tweets, and false advertising. I live here - I can assure you internet speeds are nowhere near what you think they are, and like you I agree it's a big ask in a country like Ireland but we don't have much else to offer unlike Germany. I'm moaning for a reason - don't believe the hype!


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    #2183
    mass_debater
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,072 ✭✭✭mass_debater


    damienirel wrote: »
    So you're reading all the tweets, and false advertising. I live here - I can assure you internet speeds are nowhere near what you think they are, and like you I agree it's a big ask in a country like Ireland but we don't have much else to offer unlike Germany. I'm moaning for a reason - don't believe the hype!

    I live in a small village in the west and have faster cheaper broadband than either of my 2 sister's in New Jersey and Philadelphia. Ireland is a lot further ahead than you imagine


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    #2184
    damienirel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 949 ✭✭✭damienirel


    Good for you - I mean that by the way.
    I on the other hand live about 700m away from a fibre cabinet that eircom won't connect me to. Meanwhile I'm connected to the exchange directly which is 5kms away and I get a Max speed of 2.5mb. My brother living suburbia new Jersey is on a 1gb connection.


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    #2185
    mass_debater
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,072 ✭✭✭mass_debater


    damienirel wrote: »
    Good for you - I mean that by the way.
    I on the other hand live about 700m away from a fibre cabinet that eircom won't connect me to. Meanwhile I'm connected to the exchange directly which is 5kms away and I get a Max speed of 2.5mb. My brother living suburbia new Jersey is on a 1gb connection.

    What? You expect Eircom to connect you to a fibre cab when your cable pair is direct fed from exchange? Ridiculous expectation.


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    #2186
    rob808
    Registered Users Posts: 2,313 ✭✭✭rob808


    damienirel wrote: »
    Good for you - I mean that by the way.
    I on the other hand live about 700m away from a fibre cabinet that eircom won't connect me to. Meanwhile I'm connected to the exchange directly which is 5kms away and I get a Max speed of 2.5mb. My brother living suburbia new Jersey is on a 1gb connection.
    I thought they were sorting that out because there was a problem with resellers equipment and it stop eircom from given certain people efibre.There was article on silconrepublic about it.Did you ring eircom about it seem silly your still on 2.5 mb in a efibre area.


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    #2187
    damienirel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 949 ✭✭✭damienirel


    No i'm just on boards moaning for the craic. Of course i contacted them. So many times it's not funny.


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    #2188
    rob808
    Registered Users Posts: 2,313 ✭✭✭rob808


    damienirel wrote: »
    No i'm just on boards moaning for the craic. Of course i contacted them. So many times it's not funny.
    I say find out what exchange your on and ask any eircom engineer you see around Your area when would your exchange be efibre.They would have a better idea when you would be able to get it.


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    #2189
    ItHurtsWhenIP
    Registered Users Posts: 2,023 ✭✭✭ItHurtsWhenIP


    rob808 wrote: »
    I say find out what exchange your on and ask any eircom engineer you see around Your area when would your exchange be efibre.They would have a better idea when you would be able to get it.

    He's already mentioned that he is 5KM from his exchange, so he is SOOL for eFibre.


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    #2190
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,021 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    damienirel wrote: »
    So you're reading all the tweets, and false advertising. I live here - I can assure you internet speeds are nowhere near what you think they are, and like you I agree it's a big ask in a country like Ireland but we don't have much else to offer unlike Germany. I'm moaning for a reason - don't believe the hype!
    I'm sitting in an armchair in Newcastle, County Dublin (exchange is Rathcoole) right now. The mother here has internet speeds that surpass our best available product in central Berlin (double our upload). We are building a house in a commuter town of 12k people outside Berlin and we can get a max of 12Mb there accirding to immediate neighbours and only because we are not too far from the exchange. People at the far end of the town get 1 or 2 meg. My mother used to get 3 until fttc changed all that and made skyping possible (upload was the problem on her end). It's anecdotal, but no more anecdotal than your examples. The fact remains that Irish broadband is coming on on leaps and bounds. You're the high hanging fruit being far from the exchange and direct fed.


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    #2191
    Nollog
    Registered Users Posts: 5,456 ✭✭✭Nollog


    rob808 wrote: »
    I say find out what exchange your on and ask any eircom engineer you see around Your area when would your exchange be efibre.They would have a better idea when you would be able to get it.

    Her exchange is probably already enabled, it'd be the distance that'd be the killer.


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