SIRO - ESB/Vodafone Fibre To The Home

jca

I'm with VF since February and have downloaded around 500gb per month and was never charged anything extra.

ED E

air wrote: »

How is that exactly?
You stated that Siro could simply lay as many fibres as they want as they go along. This is simply untrue. They are limited in what they can run due to the physical limitations of the infrastructure they are using to run fibre.

Shared medium over the air is totally different to shared medium over a physical carrier. Obviously there are practical limitations to how many 6mm optics you can fit in one duct, but its still N x band vs 1 x band per locality.

digiman

bk wrote: »

There is a massive difference between Fiber and Mobile Broadband. Mobile broadband is severely limited by radio spectrum available and thus bandwidth.

Fiber on the other hand has no such limitations * Terabytes per month of extra data on a fiber network are literally counted in a euro or two. Thus there is no excuse for caps on a FTTH network.

* Strictly speaking Fiber has a certain amount of spectrum available too, but it is so much more then available to mobile broadband, it isn't even worth talking about. Practically speaking Fiber really doesn't have any limitations.

ED E wrote: »

Shared medium over the air is totally different to shared medium over a physical carrier. Obviously there are practical limitations to how many 6mm optics you can fit in one duct, but its still N x band vs 1 x band per locality.

The worry for a network would be that if everyone had unlimited caps combined with superfast uploads that customers would be seeding torrents and could put huge pressure on the backhaul for their networks. Not everyone using torrents is tech savy enough to limit their upload speeds, so they would basically have to start shaping bit torrent traffic.

Don't forget that not all the ISPs such as Sky and Vodafone and any of the smaller guys have their own national dark fibre backhaul networks. Sky for example use BT for their backhaul network and I would imagine are buying in 10Gb bundles of capacity. It will cost them more to buy more capacity from BT.

This isn't such a big deal for Sky at the moment as they are not using FTTH and most of their upload speeds are probably an average of 10Mb/s or less. As a result it much more difficult for a Sky customer to download/upload 1TB compared to a Vodafone customer. Can you imagine the impact on Sky's backhaul network if they had customers who were on 1000/200Mb FTTH packages with unlimited caps.

Eir of course have a national dark fibre network so it's much easier for them to add extra capacity with DWDM or upgrade optics from 10Gb to 40Gb to 100Gb.

I certainly see peoples point that paying E90/month you shouldn't have to worry about caps. It's a bit like the Irish Water argument, unless you charge people for it they won't conserve and alot of capacity gets wasted by people leaving their torrents and taps running!!

ED E

I disagree that national backhaul is the issue, not at all. The limits are there because of fees paid to Hibernian/C&W(Vodafone)/Telia/L3 to get packets from Dublin/Belfast/Wexford to London/Paris.

digiman

ED E wrote: »

I disagree that national backhaul is the issue, not at all. The limits are there because of fees paid to Hibernian/C&W(Vodafone)/Telia/L3 to get packets from Dublin/Belfast/Wexford to London/Paris.

Good to see that you are coming around to my way of thinking, I meant to add in transit costs also but it's not an area that I am very familiar with anyway!!

ED E

Don't worry, I'm still of the opinion that for €90/mo Vodafone can leverage their EU wide network of 140M subscriptions and set a FUP that gives power users peace of mind.

bk

Averi Cool Midget wrote: »

That is not entirely true for GPON which both eir and Siro are using. Each GPON port is limited to 2.5Gbps down and 1.25 Gbps up. This is then furter split between individual premises. Siro have stated that they are using a 1:32 split ratio.

That is correct, but let me put that in context for you.

Lets say each of your 32 neighbours signs up to SIRO (unlikely) and all 32 use it 100% the top speed they can 24/7 all month long (almost never actually happens), you would still be looking at 78Mb/s per home!

That would equate to 25TB totally capacity per home. In the most unlikely scenario possible. Given that there simply is no justification for a 1TB cap.

Also it ignores that fact that it would be relatively trivial to upgrade to even more bandwidth in future, either by running more fiber and reducing the split from 32:1 to 16:1, 8:1 or even done to 1:1 eventually. Alternatively you can add more advanced lasers and do 10GPON, etc. which uses multiple different frequencies.

Well it is true, that there would be a cost to such upgrades, at least they would be possible and relatively affordable compared to mobile broadband. The point with mobile broadband is that once the spectrum is used, it is gone and there is no more.

BTW This is how Virgin/UPC manage to offer free speed upgrades over the years. Behind the scenes they are constantly upgrading the network, splitting nodes, laying more fiber, etc. You just don't see them talking about it. Once we move to the era of FTTH, you will likely see the same sort of quiet upgrades to the FTTH network as demand calls for it. With node splits etc. being quietly done to areas that have high congestion, etc.

tsue921i8wljb3

I was more playing devil's advocate with my post. I agree that the cap is overly restrictive. Vodafone have form in this matter though. They tried capping their FTTC product to 300GB but when enough customers complained they removed the cap.

http://www.boards.ie/ttfthread/2057308106

http://www.boards.ie/ttfpost/94324567

PeadarB

IMG_0215.JPG

Aerial ODP Glencar Road, Letterkenny. 8:1 split? ESB Networks stringing the armoured fibre from pole to pole and the KNN lads splicing the ODP's in. They are flat out. There will be up to 2,000 connections ready in the first phase.

The same ODP is being used at the mini-pillars. Two of them are in the manhole serving 9 houses in our cul-de-sac. KNN were there yesterday testing the connections. A brief look at the engineer's plan for our area would seem to indicate that the ducted rollout will only cover 30% (my estimation) of premises. The rest are done from the pole mounted ODP's.
Next test in two weeks or so before handover and first connections.

ED E

Nice recon work Peadar.

Cantona's Collars

Open evening with Siro at Wexford Co.Co. offices in Carricklawn @ 6pm on 16th May.

Manc Red

Vodafone have now switched from a phone line checker to an address checker - http://www.vodafone.ie/home/broadband

swoofer

but is it accurate!!

GerardKeating

swoofer wrote: »

but is it accurate!!

What exactly does the following speed/line test mean please.

It is "Up to 24", or "Up to 100".

AlmightyCushion

GerardKeating wrote: »

What exactly does the following speed/line test mean please.

It is "Up to 24", or "Up to 100".

Maybe minimum 24Mbps up to a max of 100Mbps.

Ould Mr Brennan

GerardKeating wrote: »

What exactly does the following speed/line test mean please.

It is "Up to 24", or "Up to 100".

I got the same answer even though I think my local cabinet is only 1 or 2mb enabled

JohnC.

From what I can tell from my results pre and post FTTC upgrade (exchange only just upgraded and not really available yet), the bottom is the maximum the exchange/cab is capable of, based on the technology used, and the top is what they think you can expect to actually get at your location. Personally, before the exchange upgrade, the top figure was lower than I was actually getting (covering their ar$es?) and I suspect the post upgrade figure is also lower than I could get.

guil

The Vodafone checker tells me the max speed my line can handle in text underneath the upto 100mb picture.

ED E

GerardKeating wrote: »

What exactly does the following speed/line test mean please.

It is "Up to 24", or "Up to 100".

Any lines that qualify for VDSL vodafone says up to 100Mb even if the prequal is 7Mb, same for DSL with a 2Mb line being "Up to 24Mb" even though they know otherwise.

Its really dishonest, even Eir don't lie like that.

loyatemu

checking my address it shows 100Mbps/100Mbps in the image but the small print above it says "Our line check showed that the maximum speed your line can currently achieve is 30Mbps with 100 Mbps broadband plan"

30Mb/s is actually correct (it's what the Digiweb and Eir checkers say) - but they're definitely not making it easy for people to understand the speed they'll get.

Chimichangas

GerardKeating wrote:

What exactly does the following speed/line test mean please.

GerardKeating wrote:

It is "Up to 24", or "Up to 100".

Ould Mr Brennan wrote:

I got the same answer even though I think my local cabinet is only 1 or 2mb enabled

I think it means up to 24mb on a standard line, and eventually with fibre up to 100mb. If you're currently only getting 2mb that won't change until you get fibre... but it sounds great though..😉

Chimichangas

ED E wrote:

Any lines that qualify for VDSL vodafone says up to 100Mb even if the prequal is 7Mb, same for DSL with a 2Mb line being "Up to 24Mb" even though they know otherwise.

ED E wrote:

Its really dishonest, even Eir don't lie like that.

Oh please....!!
My next door neighbour gets fibre as do others in my estate. Yet EiR tell me I'm not in line for fibre for the foreseeable... their own agents and knn install techs can't understand why they're saying they can't give fibre now.
They all make it up, as and when they need to.

swoofer

it should have told you the actual possible line in a paragraph speed and the bit you posted shows your exchange is a 24mbs one. The 100mbs is to make it look good.

ED E

Chimichangas wrote: »

Oh please....!!
My next door neighbour gets fibre as do others in my estate. Yet EiR tell me I'm not in line for fibre for the foreseeable... their own agents and knn install techs can't understand why they're saying they can't give fibre now.
They all make it up, as and when they need to.

Thats openEir, no eir(Retail). Separate issue.

The point is Magnet and Eir present the real prequal where as Vodafone ask for address and present bullsh1t.

neacy69

GerardKeating wrote: »

What exactly does the following speed/line test mean please.

It is "Up to 24", or "Up to 100".

Its means nothing!!

I got the same when I ran an address check on the vodafone website so I called for more information only to be told that I can still only achieve a maximum of 5mbs on my line....I asked why the address checker said different and she mentioned something about that was the package they could offer my address but the line speed was different....

Banjoxed

loyatemu wrote: »

checking my address it shows 100Mbps/100Mbps in the image but the small print above it says "Our line check showed that the maximum speed your line can currently achieve is 30Mbps with 100 Mbps broadband plan"

30Mb/s is actually correct (it's what the Digiweb and Eir checkers say) - but they're definitely not making it easy for people to understand the speed they'll get.

Wow. So they actually overestimated the capability of the service by a factor of 3.3 times.

Gonzo

neacy69 wrote: »

Its means nothing!!

I got the same when I ran an address check on the vodafone website so I called for more information only to be told that I can still only achieve a maximum of 5mbs on my line....I asked why the address checker said different and she mentioned something about that was the package they could offer my address but the line speed was different....

it almost seems like a cruel joke. I can just about get 8meg and it shows the same crappy image for me. That image makes it look like between 24 and 100 meg is available at your address. They really shouldn't be allowed use it.

Nollog

Dis mine, I can get 90mbps on 100mbps it says in the paragraph above, other retailers have told me that number before too.

I'm currently on 17/10 because i'm cheap, don't want a long contract, and waiting for siro.

jca

/\/ollog wrote: »

Dis mine, I can get 90mbps on 100mbps it says in the paragraph above, other retailers have told me that number before too.

I'm currently on 17/10 because i'm cheap, don't want a long contract, and waiting for siro.

It costs the same whether you're on 17/10 or 100/20 as far as I know.

Nollog

jca wrote: »

//ollog wrote: »

Dis mine, I can get 90mbps on 100mbps it says in the paragraph above, other retailers have told me that number before too.

I'm currently on 17/10 because i'm cheap, don't want a long contract, and waiting for siro.

It costs the same whether you're on 17/10 or 100/20 as far as I know.

not if i'm on an old contract, with sky. It was a tenner more when "fibre" came out, so I didn't bother. Expected siro way earlier.