Timber!!

Tom Joad

overpronator wrote: »

Brilliant, I reckon we will be going at a similar clip so we can get a group formed:cool:

Jaysus I'd only be holding you back with the running you are doing at the minute :eek:. Savage running on that 15 with 8 at MP - impressive stuff.

outforarun

overpronator wrote: »

A nice thought for sure and cheers for the encouragement but its very early days yet. I won't think about targets until after Bohermeen as there is just too much running to be done in the meantime. In reality though as things stand I feel I would need the half pb to come down to 1.22 before I'd feel like I was in with a real shot, currently 1.24(very)high . I know people say 1.23 is about right to go for it but the way I cramp in marathons id need that extra bit of wiggle room I think.

Hmmm that doesn't sound like a categorical 'no'.

Toblerone1978

overpronator wrote: »

A nice thought for sure and cheers for the encouragement but its very early days yet. I won't think about targets until after Bohermeen as there is just too much running to be done in the meantime. In reality though as things stand I feel I would need the half pb to come down to 1.22 before I'd feel like I was in with a real shot, currently 1.24(very)high . I know people say 1.23 is about right to go for it but the way I cramp in marathons id need that extra bit of wiggle room I think.

My PB for a half 5 wks before DCM was just over 1.25 (lowered to just under 1.25 since). Grant it, I was borderline when I did the sub-3 so you should aim higher (or should I say lower!) but I would have thought that 1.22 is unnecessarily ambitious for a sub-3.

overpronator

outforarun wrote: »

Hmmm that doesn't sound like a categorical 'no'.

Speaking purely in hypotheticals!

overpronator

Toblerone1978 wrote: »

My PB for a half 5 wks before DCM was just over 1.25 (lowered to just under 1.25 since). Grant it, I was borderline when I did the sub-3 so you should aim higher (or should I say lower!) but I would have thought that 1.22 is unnecessarily ambitious for a sub-3.

That's encouraging to hear alright, cheers. Hopefully I make it to Bohermeen in one piece and after that ill know where I stand.

overpronator

Two medium long runs in the plan on Monday and Tuesday and both were pretty uneventful

Monday 12 miles 7.50 pace
I just did two laps of a 6 mile loop near my place in Kilmainham. Heuston station out to Chapelizod up Ballyfermot hill and back down into Kilmainham joining the DCM course to the Jail, one lap clockwise and another anticlockwise. The legs felt fresh on this on and it ticked by surprisingly quickly. I've really noticed my easy pace drop over the last couple of months without any effort which is both pleasing and encouraging that I'm doing something right.

Tuesday 11.2 miles 7.55 pace
I was a bit more sluggish starting off on this one taking in a route through Kimmage, Terenure, Walkinstown, Crumlin and back to Kilmainham but freshened up a bit by the end. I was more conscious of keeping this one easy than I was the previous night but the wind at my back coming down the Crumlin road gave a couple of faster splits to finish.

That's the two longest midweek runs in the can for the week, with the first Tempo run of this block to come on Thursday. I cant say I'm looking forward to that!

overpronator

Wednesday 5.16 miles 9.08 pace
I was joined by the better half on this one so for once I actually did a proper recovery run. The legs felt grand, a wee bit heavy from the two previous runs but nothing major.

Thursday 9 miles with 5@Tempo
I had been down in the city for work this afternoon meaning I was out and about in the wind and suffice to say it was absolutely manky. Thankfully it had calmed somewhat before I started this and I tried to pick a sheltered enough route. I started out with a 3 mile warmup and a few strides and felt pretty good. McMilllan has my LT pace somewhere around 6.20 after Waterford but with the conditions I wasn't fussed on splits but did hope I could keep it under 6.30ish. In the end they were:

6.20
6.17
6.28 (all into the wind)
6.23
6.08 (all wind assisted)


I'm happy with how it went but the sections into the wind were hard work particularly miles 3&4 where I was really puffing so it probably wasn't a true tempo more a wierd kind of fartlek or something! I always say I was trying to keep the effort constant but into the wind is so much rougher no matter how you approach it. i.e Mile 3 felt like the end of an eyeballs out 5k, whereas Mile 5 felt like a steady effort. You gotta love it:D

overpronator

Saturday 5.3 miles 8.23 pace \
No running Friday so I stuck in the recovery run for Saturday evening. Seeing as I didn't run Friday after the tempo my legs didn't feel great on this but it eased out a bit by the end.

Sunday 18.3 miles 7.46 pace \
18 miles always feels like a real long run in the way 16 doesn't, its just far enough that it could get messy in my experience! In the end it was grand as I was hoping it would be due to being fairly well rested. I was keeping a good eye on pace over the first few miles but this was wrecking my head so I ran mostly on feel making sure never to strain and it worked out well but come the final mile I was tiring so hopefully I judged it ok.

A solid week, just over 61 miles, I'm feeling good and not tired yet but that will start to come over the next few weeks.

ThebitterLemon

That's a decent long run this early in your training cycle

TbL

overpronator

Nothing to see here at the minute, I've been laid up since Tuesday with a bad virus. I reckon I caught it off my Dad last weekend who had a bad dose. It was hard to get out out of bed never mind run :mad: but I'm on the mend today thankfully.

overpronator

I managed a couple of runs Saturday and Sunday thankfully and I feel far better now.

Saturday 5.6 miles 8.19 pace
Felt a bit off as I expected I would but just glad to be out on a lovely crisp afternoon in the park.

Sunday 14.4 miles 7.37 pace
This was a play it by ear run and I chose a loop whereby after 4 miles if I wasn't feeling it I was close to home. Thankfully I felt alot better than yesterday and after a cautious start I was tipping along nicely by at the end. My legs felt really fresh naturally enough after 4 days enforced rest. I was very tempted to push this out to 16 or 18 by the end but thought better of it.

Overall a write off of a week but it's out of my control so no point dwelling on it. I've an entry for the Trim 10 miler next Sunday but I wont race it, as I don't want to miss another long run or have a compromised weeks training following it as I try to recover. I may still try to make it down there early to get some miles in beforehand and do the race as part of a MP session so its not a completey wasted entry, Ill decide on that early in the week.

overpronator

Im back on the P&D train this week thankfully, work has required me to jig things about a bit but I still should get all of the runs in.

Monday 5.4m 8.03 pace
The first 3 miles of this were ran very easy but I felt lethargic and heavy legged so I threw some strides in on miles 4&5 in an effort to perk up. This always does the trick for me but it was no use, I just felt crap!

Tuesday 14m 8.18 pace
More of the same Tuesday had me thinking I still wasn't over that poxy virus and after 4 miles of this I wanted to bin it. Unfortunately Luckily id agreed to meet a friend for some miles at my 5 mile point and after another 6 very easy with him I felt a shade better. I tacked on 3 myself at the end to hit the planned mileage and was extremely glad to chalk this one off, worst run in a long time.

Wednesday 12m 7.58 pace
I hit the road with trepidation tonight but a mile in I knew it was going to be fine, what a difference a day makes! I felt great on this and the miles flew by despite the wind and snow showers.

So i've another 9 easy with strides and a recovery to chalk off before the big weekend session of 17(or 18 maybe, im not sure) with 10 at MP. I have an entry for the Trim 10 miler so it makes sense to use the race for this. I'll tip down there early on and get a few miles in before attempting the race at anything under 7 minute pace. If I can hold sub 7 for it I'll delighted but its gonna be a rough session id say.

overpronator

I took Thursday as a planned rest day which worked out for the best with snow and horrific traffic around Dublin, I was very glad to spend the evening on the couch.

Friday 9.2 Miles 7.43 pace
Perfect running conditions last night, cold, clear and only a moderate breeze. I did my usual 9 mile route from Kilmainham up through Stoneybatter, Blackhorse Ave as far as Ashtown and back down the Navan Road, North Circular and home. I threw in 10x 15-20 second strides which brought the average pace down, these really do break up the run in the middle portion and it was over before I knew it.

Saturday 5.5 Miles 8.24 pace
A gentle jog this morning to loosen up the legs. I'm glad that I wasn't doing a MP run this morning as the park is enveloped in a gale as usual.

Tomorrow I'm heading to Trim for the 10 miler which Ill attempt to run in and around Vdot Mp, I'm looking forward to it (I think!).

tang1

Best of luck tomorrow, windy around Trim today to, hope conditions improve for you.

overpronator

tang1 wrote: »

Best of luck tomorrow, windy around Trim today to, hope conditions improve for you.

Cheers Tang I was thinking it probably would be, sure it keeps things interesting

yaboya1

Good luck tomorrow.
Will probably see you there

overpronator

yaboya1 wrote: »

Good luck tomorrow.
Will probably see you there

Same to you man, will keep an eye out for ya

overpronator

I headed over to Trim early this morning with a view to getting 7 or so miles in before the race, I parked up near the race start and at around 10.55 I set off. Not really knowing where I was going I headed up to check out the start area and then turned back to make my way down to the Boyne. There is an absolutely beautiful stretch along the river on paths turning into grass which Tang suggested so that was a very pleasant way to spend those early miles. The legs felt good and as I made my way up to the start so I was hopeful of a decent session after clocking 7 miles but was unsure of how long Id be able to hold a good pace.

About 5 minutes waiting about at the start and we were off, I couldn't spot Tom Joad but hoped to find him in the masses eventually. Initially I forgot I wasn't supposed to be racing it and tore off with the crowd but got a hold of myself when I saw 6.10 pace showing on the watch. It was a wee bit annoying to ease off and let people pass me but once TJ fell in with me it was all good and we settled into a nice rhythm. I hate letting the garmin dictate pace on sessions like this so we just tipped along solidly chatting away and let the pace look after itself. We hit Dunderry village after about 5 miles and turned into a bit of a headwind and a longish drag which woke me up a shade but apart from that it was a pretty uneventful 10 miles. Thankfully I didn't feel much strain breathing wise throughout, although the legs were tiring a bit as we headed up a small drag at the 9 mile marker. There was a friendly downhill stretch after that and I felt good so over the last half mile I pushed on to see if there was anything left in the legs finishing strong for a 66.2x for the 10 miles.
I got chatting to yaboya after and the 3 of us did a short cooldown jog which brought me back to the car where I put some warm clothes on and I jogged my way back to the finish area to wait for the better half tacking another couple of slow recovery miles on to make it 20 for the day.
Loads of soup, coffee and cake after was great down at race HQ where my dull glycogen depleted mental arithmetic had me mixing up my hopeful 10 mile race time and half when talking to Yaboya, I think Martin Fagan was worried!

The session worked out faster than planned marathon pace but I'm just looking at it as a good solid longer session, I'm not fussed if it was a bit fast at this stage. The benefits of running it in a race with TJ were massive, I would never have been able to hold that pace solo and having him there in the race was even more encouragement not to slacken off. Overall I'm delighted with it but I am also aware of the mental benefits of doing these sessions alone so the next long MP run will be attempted solo. I also reacquainted myself with taking a gel at "speed" with no adverse stomach impact so one less thing to worry about going forward.

66 miles for the week.

Splits from the Garmin
8.05, 7.44, 7.47, 7.46, 7.42, 7.50, 7.19, 6.36, 6.47, 6.40, 6.41, 6.52, 6.42, 6.43, 6.32, 6.36, 6.12 , 8.08, 8.21, 9.00.

outforarun

Nicely done. While developing frostbite yesterday morning I was thinking how glad I was not be racing. Seems from your report though that the cold wasn't a problem.

overpronator

outforarun wrote: »

Nicely done. While developing frostbite yesterday morning I was thinking how glad I was not be racing. Seems from your report though that the cold wasn't a problem.

Cheers D, it was absolutely baltic down there yesterday and I was asking myself what the hell I was doing in parts of those early easy miles. I didn't notice it so much during the race as I had a hat, underarmour and proper thermal gloves on. I do think that when the wind is blowing in the phoenix park though it's just a level above anything else, from the sounds of things yesterday was one of those days up there.

overpronator

Monday 5.6 miles 8.44 pace
A handy recovery after Sundays long session. The legs felt ok but fairly dead, no shock there. This was down as a rest day on P&D but this is one change ill always make to the plan as I know my legs would have been in a jock for a couple of days had I taken the day off

Wednesday 15 miles 8.05 pace
I had intended to do this one Tuesday but unforeseen circumstances had me down in Drogheda Tuesday night. I did this one with the HR to make sure I kept myself in check and it was fine, felt good. I noticed a funny tightness in my left calf which Ive never had before, one to keep an eye on as I've had trouble with that calf before. Gave it a good going over with the roller once I got home.

Thursday 13.9 miles miles 8.12 pace
Chugging along P&D style with another MLR, the first 10 miles of this were at about 7.45 pace but I ran into the better half doing a tempo at that stage so I just jumped in with her and saw out the final 4 at around 8.30 pace. No calf feedback.

Friday 10k Tempo
I was a bit apprehensive about this one because the plan has a recovery day after the 2 MLRs but I had to fit this one in tonight as the alternative would have been to run it before my LSR on Sunday. It's something I've done before but with mileage creeping up I didn't want risk it, so tonight it was.
The plan was to hold anything around 6.20 pace as suggested by McMillan. The first mile came in at 6.16, a bit fast but it felt right and I just kept it going by feel from there. I felt very strong through 5 miles, working for the next half and suffered for the last quarter. I missed the beep for six miles and when I looked at the watch it read 6.1 so I decided to see it out for a 10k split:rolleyes: The splits were

6.16
6.17
6.20
6.17
6.15
6.15
1.11

Happy with this one as the effort felt spot on and I usually suffer more on these sessions, I did it up on the acres road lap which is far flatter than my normal route which was a help I'm sure. 10k split was 38.51 which is a nice confidence boost (and unofficial PB), but I'm more happy with how I felt than the split if that makes sense. 10 miles for the day.

Just a very handy recovery tomorrow before meeting outforarun for a long run Sunday.

ThebitterLemon

That's a tasty few days running!

Very impressive 10k tempo

TbL

overpronator

ThebitterLemon wrote: »

That's a tasty few days running!

Very impressive 10k tempo

TbL

Cheers TBL, I can see those weekly 15 milers really starting to grind as the weeks go by. P&D seems determined to turn people into big smelly diesel engines, I dont exactly smell of lavender most days so I'm well on my way!

tang1

Serious stuff OP, you'll go much quicker in a competitive race environment with that 10k time.

outforarun

To be travelling that fast over 10K so early in the plan bodes really well for summer 10ks.

overpronator

Saturday 6.3M 8.57 pace
A recovery paced effort to shake off the previous nights session. I was tired on this one but was enjoying my waddle around the park so I added a mile on to take in some trails for the first time this year. It's great fun just jogging about aimlessly on these recovery runs.

Sunday 20M 8.03 pace
I met outforarun for 14 miles of this one. We started off early into a phoenix park covered in thick fog on a stunner of a morning, cold and crisp. I felt a bit ropey at the start as Id had a couple of pints (too many) for the rugby but came out of it a few miles in. The pace was easy for this one, a time on the feet effort and it flew by as we chatted all things marathon and our shared runners OCD! When he headed off home I was on my own for the final 6, I turned up the north road and was feeling tired but heading for home back down chesterfield I perked up and finished it out well with a few steadier miles. This was all done and in the bag before 11 so I had the rest of the day to concentrate on my hangover!

Just over 71 miles for the week with a stepback to come at a good time next week.
Looking back on the log I see that I ran 6 days this week in the Phoenix park, Spring must be kicking in at last

overpronator

Monday 5.3 miles 8.58 pace
A handy recovery run, I'm glad that I'm keeping these a bit more disciplined lately as the legs felt very good once I finished

Tuesday 15.8 miles 7.59 pace
The weekly P&D slog run, like a gob*****e I changed my route on a whim to take in more of Castleknock and cut out some of Ballyfermot but so I ended up just adding distance, that little .8 makes a difference on a cold Tuesday night! I felt very good for 13 or so miles of this one but my feet were getting a bit sore as I finished up, probably doe to the 20 miler on Sunday in the same shoes and the higher mileage in general too.

Wednesday 8 miles 7.47 pace + 10 20s Strides
I felt like crap on this one, a bit jaded after the previous night and my legs were heavy. There were 10 strides in the plan and they definitely helped flush out the previous few days. Glad when this was over.

Thursday 5 mile Tempo
Last night was Tempo night and I was back to my hilly route around Chapelizod and Kilmainham instead of the flat acres road from last week. Again target pace from McMillan was 6.20. The first mile out the chapelizod road was ok but it felt tougher than last week so I knew that the hill out of Chapelizod from the marathon course in mile 2 would be a killer. I eased back the effort a bit to got up it but it still hurt. Once I had recovered from the hill I got back on in and finished it out grand. Give me a flat tempo route any day! 9 miles for the night, I was supposed to do 10 but didn't fancy a 3 mile cooldown so left it at 2.
Splits:
6.19
6.25
6.19
6.14
6.17

A handy 5 or 6 miles on the cards for tonight before the long run Saturday morning.

overpronator

Friday 5.4 miles 8.39 pace
Tired on this one and basically decided to put the long run off until Sunday by the end. I'm glad I took Saturday off as I got a much better quality LR in Sunday.

Sunday 17.3m 7.26 pace
One thing I've been worried about over the past couple of weeks is the one paced nature of most of my training on this plan. So rather than another easy 2+ hour run which wouldn't have taken much out of me I got stuck into the hills back home in Drogheda for a steadier placed long run to try hit on a bit of a different stimulus. The plan had 17 miles so I stuck to that aspect of it on a challenging loop with some long drags and very cut up trails towards the end. A very enjoyable one but not one for every week of course, definitely nice to mix it up all the same.

Just over 61 miles for the week, the plan goes back to higher mileage over the next 2 weeks with 70 miles prescribed back to back which will be a challenge. If I can get through them ok Ill start to think about Bohermeen but first off Ive 18m with 12@MP to contend with next week, dreading it already!!

overpronator

Monday

AM 6.5m 8.28 pace

PM 4.5m 9.05 pace

A double on the plan for Monday and both were handy recovery efforts, I felt a bit sh1t on the morning run as my body rebelled against me but on the evening jog I felt smashing. I ran the first 2 miles with the OH and the last 2 on my own keeping it all easy. There might be something to this double recovery day idea!


Tuesday 5x1200 (set watch to .75 of a mile) 2.30 jogged recovery

The first speed session in the plan, 5x1200 and I think it came at a good time after a number of weeks of steady running. I was looking forward to the change in focus as much as anything as P&D can be quite samey as we all know.
The one very specific target for this session was to not flog myself in the middle of a high mileage week. From reading P&D these aren't the key marathon sessions they serve as more complimentary work to improve efficiency and turnover therefore I felt there was no need for an eyeballs out hero session here, just get the reps in . My real focus for this week is the PMP session on Saturday so I was also hoping that this might serve as a bit of a sharpener for that too.
I headed down to the Chapelizod road at Islandbridge for this and as usual there was a headwind in the out of town direction so I knew the splits would be inconsistent between the out and back reps. A 3 three mile warmup and 5-6 short strides and I was off. Splits:

4.27 (5.57 pace)
4.19 (5.46 pace)
4.31 (6.01 pace)
4.22 (5.49 pace)
4.32 (6.03 pace)

1,3 and 5 were into the wind with 2 and 4 having a tailwind. Rep 1 was by far the toughest and I eased off half way through it as I was was stretching a bit so I knew the rest of the session would go that way if I didn't cop on! The other reps into the wind were more sensible efforts and the wind assisted reps, 2 and 4 were comfortable.
11 miles in total for the session and nothing earth shattering, in all honesty the sustained "speed" was a bit of a shock to the system at first but that's to be expected after so long away from these efforts. The recovery was pretty generous at a 2.30 jog, also I left the flats at home to save the legs a bit so hopefully those two things mean I recover ok.

RedRunner

You're in savage form these days OP. Super training going on here!