Timber!!

RedRunner

Brilliant run OP. London's calling!

Duanington

great result OP - really impressive

adrian522

Nice running there OP, well done!

overpronator

I headed for Bohermeen yesterday fairly confident that I was in good shape and looking to run sub 1.24. I had felt a bit jaded on Thursdays run so I just jogged a couple of 4 milers on Friday and Saturday with some strides in both and I felt a good deal better so it was all systems go.
When we got down there the 10k was just about to start so we ended up abandoning the car near the motorway flyover at the top of that steep hill. Walking up to the clubhouse the only thing I could think about was how strong the headwind was along that home stretch, but knowing the course from the past couple of years that wind would be at our back down on the main road so it wasn't all bad.
I strolled around the carpark and got all the necessary jobs done before watching the 10k finish, then I got changed and jogged down to the start. I ran into TJ, Meno and Yaboya and had a quick few words with them. I also finally got to meet Ed Whitlock TBL and DrQ who were in good spirits and looking fit.
My loose plan for the start was to keep the first lap under 6.25 pace but if I was going faster and feeling alright I wasn't gonna hold back. After that lap I was just going on feel. I started way too far back as usual, behind the 1.30 pacer but there were so many people crowded in together I couldn't make my way up further.
Things thinned out a bit at the start and I was only really weaving for 30 seconds before I settled in. That first mile is probably the fastest of the course, mostly downhill and wind assisted so I just motored on here knowing the split would be a bit quick. 6.15
As we hit the second mile it started to feel like a half marathon, we were slightly uphill and hitting the headwind. I was sitting in a group but a glance at the watch saw 6.30 pace, no good, so I pushed on up the road. Tunguska passed me here and looked to be motoring well, he was out of sight within a few minutes. I'm pretty sure that I wasn't passed again for the entire race. The effort wasn't too easy here but I knew once we turned left and headed down for the main road things would be a bit better. Heading downhill and along the main road the pace picked up and turning back up towards the bridges I finally started to feel good. The pace was on track and I had a group of about 8 or 9 up ahead of me to chase 6.25, 6.18, 6.25, 6.14
I got up the steep hill fine and dug in for the long almost 2 mile stretch into the gale. I felt alright along here and was passing a few that were spat out from the back of the big group ahead. A few tried to go with me but couldn't which was a good sign and I was on my own until the clubhouse and the lefthand turn 6.26, 6.24.
So halfway there and I was right on target, turning out of the wind things became really quiet and I remember thinking to myself "How the fu*k are you gonna run another lap of this!", so I was definitely working hard. I spotted a few Donore vests in a group up ahead and I began trying to reel them in, I caught and passed them by the time we hit the main road again and felt alot better. I was pushing hard now with only 4 miles left and speeding up with the miles all under 6.20. I took a gel along here to get ready for the second trip along that windy stretch6.13,6.17,6.15,6.15.
The overall average pace had ticked down to 6.19 now so I thought I had a small chance at sub 83, once I got up that hill for the second time I was prepared to go for it, knowing id probably have to drop a 6.00 mile. No chance:D. The wind was a gale and crossing the bridge I was working so hard just to get the pace back to 6.20. I could see Dr Q up ahead and he became the target but he was coming back to me too fast so I knew he was just jogging it in. I pulled up alongside him and spluttered some kind of swear word, he just told me to put the head down and dig in. I decided to not look at the watch until the end and pushed on. I passed another couple of runners here but was absolute toast by the time id finished that last mile, dry retching to beat the band once id finished. 6.20, 6.15, (1.04)

Placed 60/843 1.23.07 chip time
I was happy with how I ran that getting a decent negative split and a sub 39 final 10k according to Strava, job done, but London is obviously still the main goal. The legs feel pretty good today so hopefully I recover well from it.
I have to take this week as a buffer week from P&D as I'm in the UK next weekend on a stag so it will be lower mileage overall but after that its hopefully 3 70+ mile weeks before starting to taper back. Still alot of running to be done but I'm feeling good which is the main thing.

ThebitterLemon

Just googled Ed Whitlock, ya cheeky young fecker, I'll take his times but not his wrinkles:)

TbL

overpronator

ThebitterLemon wrote: »

Just googled Ed Whitlock, ya cheeky young fecker, I'll take his times but not his wrinkles:)

TbL

Ha, I was wondering if that would get a reaction The way you paint yourself that's what I was half expecting, not the sub 3 marathoner in waiting with the devastating finishing kick!

overpronator

Time to get updating again. The week after Bohermeen was a buffer week for me, I just did a few easy runs midweek to recover from the half and the weekend was a boozefest at a stag. I'm really not able for consecutive days on the lash anymore, tough going! Back into it this week thankfully.

Monday 10.3 miles 7.22 pace
A steady paced 10 on Monday morning and the legs felt good with the rest, body was a bit more tired and I was sweating buckets. A good one to blow off the cobwebs.

Tuesday 5-4-3-2-1 @ "MP" off 2 minute recovery
Ive stuck fairly rigidly to P&D not adding in sessions but with only one MP run left on the schedule before London I felt I needed to get in at least one more quality MP effort on top of that.
Having thought about it for a while I went with Tergats 5-4-3-2-1 as I reckon id find it tough to stop and restart MP again when tired so a good extra stimulus.
If I could sum up how I went about this run it would be absolute muppetry! Pacing was far too fast from the start and I did the session on empty with no water either:rolleyes: Anyway splits from the garmin were

5 mile (6.36 pace)
4 mile (6.36 pace)
3 mile (6.40 pace)
2 mile (6.40 pace)
1 mile (6.35 pace)

The pace overall was stupid, I should have ran these around 6.45 or slower from the off but I ended up getting into a rhythm and holding on. I was tiring by the end of the 3 mile rep and really working far far too hard over the 2 mile rep, where a welcome 15s or so traffic light stop in Chapelizod saved me. The last mile was torture and I even had to stop on the Liffey towpath for a stretch as I had thought my calf was going.
I finished it very very tired but I only have myself to blame. Its a good lesson for the day because even though the first rep felt comfortable there were just too many more miles to run and I paid for it. It's the toughest session I've done in all honesty but if had I paced it at 6.45-6.49 it would definitely been more manageable. 17M+ for the session

Wednesday 5.3m 8.08 pace
Little bit of soreness and plenty of heaviness after the previous days lampooning. Tired.

ThebitterLemon

overpronator wrote: »

Time to get updating again. The week after Bohermeen was a buffer week for me, I just did a few easy runs midweek to recover from the half and the weekend was a boozefest at a stag. I'm really not able for consecutive days on the lash anymore, tough going! Back into it this week thankfully.

Monday 10.3 miles 7.22 pace
A steady paced 10 on Monday morning and the legs felt good with the rest, body was a bit more tired and I was sweating buckets. A good one to blow off the cobwebs.

Tuesday 5-4-3-2-1 @ "MP" off 2 minute recovery
Ive stuck fairly rigidly to P&D not adding in sessions but with only one MP run left on the schedule before London I felt I needed to get in at least one more quality MP effort on top of that.
Having thought about it for a while I went with Tergats 5-4-3-2-1 as I reckon id find it tough to stop and restart MP again when tired so a good extra stimulus.
If I could sum up how I went about this run it would be absolute muppetry! Pacing was far too fast from the start and I did the session on empty with no water either:rolleyes: Anyway splits from the garmin were

5 mile (6.36 pace)
4 mile (6.36 pace)
3 mile (6.40 pace)
2 mile (6.40 pace)
1 mile (6.35 pace)

The pace overall was stupid, I should have ran these around 6.45 or slower from the off but I ended up getting into a rhythm and holding on. I was tiring by the end of the 3 mile rep and really working far far too hard over the 2 mile rep, where a welcome 15s or so traffic light stop in Chapelizod saved me. The last mile was torture and I even had to stop on the Liffey towpath for a stretch as I had thought my calf was going.
I finished it very very tired but I only have myself to blame. Its a good lesson for the day because even though the first rep felt comfortable there were just too many more miles to run and I paid for it. It's the toughest session I've done in all honesty but if had I paced it at 6.45-6.49 it would definitely been more manageable. 17M+ for the session

Wednesday 5.3m 8.08 pace
Little bit of soreness and plenty of heaviness after the previous days lampooning. Tired.

OP, that's a great MP session, I'd say if your aim is sub 3 you'd need to be running 6.45 Garmin mile splits and you weren't to far off that.

Nice session to have in the bank

TbL

overpronator

ThebitterLemon wrote: »

OP, that's a great MP session, I'd say if your aim is sub 3 you'd need to be running 6.45 Garmin mile splits and you weren't to far off that.

Nice session to have in the bank

TbL

Cheers man, yeah you're 100% right, 6.45 is the plan from here on!

Duanington

that's a savage session OP - nice work!

statss

overpronator wrote: »

Thanks Sean, it's only one injury from coming crashing down though, London seems a long way away still. Might see you at the K club 10k?

yes I will be there, see you then

overpronator

Thursday 12.1M 7.56 pace
With the session from Tuesday accounting for the midweek 15 miler this one was luckily only 12. I was very sluggish feeling over the first 5 or 6 miles of this but thankfully came around by the end. Session was still in the legs no doubt.

Saturday 22M 7.45 pace
I was greeted by the first properly sunny Saturday of the year for this so the thoughts of 22 miles didn't seem so bad at all starting out. Again I felt a wee bit off for the first 40-50 minutes but once I got going it was pretty much grand and I finished it out feeling tired but strong. That's 5 runs of 20 miles or more so far this cycle. Hopefully another couple over the coming weeks will see me in decent shape endurance wise for the big day.

Sunday 7.5M 8.16 pace
Into the park again on Sunday morning for about 60 minutes on mostly trails and grass. I'm not one for garmin watching but on this run I made sure to keep it as leisurely as possible. It was another absolutely stunning day and heading across the 15 acres with loads of dog walkers and runners milling about it felt like summer is on the way. Class.


That was a solid weeks training with a good MP workout and a solid LR, 75 miles in total and my highest mileage week so far. This week I have a some 1k reps midweek but the big one at the weekend is 20m with 14@MP, a really key session which will tell alot about where I'm at for London.

overpronator

Registration email/confirmation form arrived this morning. It's only really hit me now that I've a marathon to race in less than 30 days, before this I was trundling along week to week worrying about sessions and long runs, now it's just got real:eek: (Can't wait for it!)

outforarun

Catching-up here. Very impressive 1:23:07. You are really motoring, that's over 5 minutes improvement since last September right? I'll only be slowing you down when we meet up for our next run. The 55-70 schedule is clearly working for you (touching wood). I must have another look at that schedule. The base building late last year is also standing to you I'm sure. I'd say you're chomping at the bit ahead of London now.

So will you have a shot at it, or will you wait for the next cycle?

overpronator

outforarun wrote: »

Catching-up here. Very impressive 1:23:07. You are really motoring, that's over 5 minutes improvement since last September right? I'll only be slowing you down when we meet up for our next run. The 55-70 schedule is clearly working for you (touching wood). I must have another look at that schedule. The base building late last year is also standing to you I'm sure. I'd say you're chomping at the bit ahead of London now.

So will you have a shot at it, or will you wait for the next cycle?

Alright Donal hope that hammer is behaving itself. I said that if I ran a 1.22 half I'd give it a shot, having ran 1.23.07 on a tough enough day its worth having a go I reckon. My thinking is that I'd rather detonate and run 3.12 than run a more controlled 3.05-3.10 and wonder what might have been. I'm likely gonna run an Autumn marathon aswell so I'm giving myself two shots at it this year, might take a break from them next year. I'm determined not to put pressure on myself though, I've one goal for the day (so far) which is to run the first half no faster than 1.29.30, the rest will take care of itself. I believe I can run sub 3 but in saying that I also know that I'm borderline so if I do the simple things well and get to 20 or so miles in the shape to take it on that's all I can ask.
I think the 55-70 plan was a perfect fit for where I was back in Jan as its a good jump in mileage and keeping it to one session a week makes it easier to stay consistent. The midweek 15 miler has brought me on a tonne and in some ways is almost like a half session, apart from that its very similar to the 55 plan. Had I attempted Daniels I dont think I would have fared as well, 2 sessions in a week would have been too much for me. I've learnt that consistency over a 6 month period is where its at for a viable sub 3 shot and so far I've been alright on that score, its all predicated on the base work before Christmas, those 10 weeks have proved invaluable. There's still a few hard sessions to come though so hopefully I get through them, we should definitly plan a long run too maybe the weekend after next?

menoscemo

Are you in the GFA pen OP?

overpronator

menoscemo wrote: »

Are you in the GFA pen OP?

Nah Meno, red start. Yourself?

menoscemo

overpronator wrote: »

Nah Meno, red start. Yourself?

Red start also but right at the front from the GFA pen.
I guess if you start right up the front, we won't be far off at the startline. Make sure to give me a shout as you whizz by

overpronator

menoscemo wrote: »

Red start also but right at the front from the GFA pen.
I guess if you start right up the front, we won't be far off at the startline. Make sure to give me a shout as you whizz by

I'll give you a shout at the start if you return the favour at 22 miles!

overpronator

Monday 9m 7.52 pace
Standard easy run, the legs felt quite niggly and tight. I had 10 strides on the plan but only did 6 for this reason.

Tuesday Rest
I had 5x1k planned for Tuesday but I was wrecked when I got home from work, the first time in this cycle that ive felt that properly marathon training exhausted feeling so I decided to bin these and move on. Ill fit them in this week instead.

Wednesday 15.6M 7.36 pace
I felt alot fresher on this and was moving nice and steadily pace wise but it felt easy. Only one more of these midweek long ones left

Thursday 12M 7.53 pace
Due to unavoidable stuff on Friday I had to move this one a day earlier. It wasn't ideal to run the 15 and 12 back to back but there wasnt much I could do. Slogged this one out.

Friday 6.3M 8.20 pace
Out early before work to get this one in, just recovery pace and its the first time Ive enjoyed a prework run. Maybe this is the start of something beautiful, most likely not though!

Saturday 7.1M 8.03 pace
Another easy one, I was glad on this that id moved the MP session to Sunday as the wind was just unreal around the phoenix park on Saturday. Cruel conditions.

Sunday 20.7M 7.11 pace (5 easy, 10MP 5 easy) FAILED SESSION
Another horrible day wind wise made this a very demoralising long run. I was supposed to do 14@MP but I knew starting out it was unlikely that id be able to manage that, there was just nowhere to hide yesterday with long stretches of this inevitably straight into the headwind.
I started with 5 easy then the MP section up the north road as far as castleknock and back down to the zoo for a 5 mile lap. I did two of these and left it at that. The effort going up the northroad into the wind felt like 5k pace and I felt like the risk/reward ratio for another 4 miles just wasnt worth it. I dusted myself down and jogged another 5 miles to get 20 in for the day. Splits
8.02, 7.35, 7.43, 7.43, 7.33, 6.54, 6.56, 6.39, 6.34, 6.43, 6.53, 6.46, 6.37, 6.28, 6.36, 7.22, 7.33,7.40, 7.47, 7.28, (7.20)
A tough day and my confidence has taken a hit with a failed session even though I know the conditions were tough, there's nothing to be gained from dwelling on it though.

So that was 71 miles for the week, decent mileage but not much overall quality. One more week at this mileage before taper starts.

Would people suggest repeating that 14 mile session this week instead or just chalk it down and keep following the plan?

Bulmers74

overpronator wrote: »

Would people suggest repeating that 14 mile session this week instead or just chalk it down and keep following the plan?

For me I'd continue on with the plan & not revisit the session. Conditions were severe & you had to adapt.

overpronator

Bulmers74 wrote: »

For me I'd continue on with the plan & not revisit the session. Conditions were severe & you had to adapt.

Cheers Bulmers, it makes the most sense alright.

outforarun

I'd agree, just chalk it down. You're right at the edge at the moment and I reckon that taper can't come soon enough. Repeating 14 miles MP would contradict the correct reward/risk decision you made on Sunday. Rarely will anyone expect to get through a cycle without 'failing' on a session or three and it's not like you skipped the session, you didn't 'fail' on effort.

Weekend after next sounds good for a run, I've my second 20 miler on the Sunday of that weekend so the company would be welcome.

overpronator

outforarun wrote: »

I'd agree, just chalk it down. You're right at the edge at the moment and I reckon that taper can't come soon enough. Repeating 14 miles MP would contradict the correct reward/risk decision you made on Sunday. Rarely will anyone expect to get through a cycle without 'failing' on a session or three and it's not like you skipped the session, you didn't 'fail' on effort.

Weekend after next sounds good for a run, I've my second 20 miler on the Sunday of that weekend so the company would be welcome.

I think you're right, I reckon I don't have too many weeks left in me at this kind of mileage so this being the final week is welcome, good timing I suppose. I've come down with a head cold since Sunday too which is another sing that I'm a bit run down. I've to do 17 the week after next after a 10k time trial/race so company will definitely be welcome for that slog.

bigslice

Well OP, great log and I enjoy reading it, I started at a similar time to you and would have had similar times along the way.

I'm not doing a spring marathon but am currently building up a base for Berlin in the Autumn. At the minute I'm looking at plans and the P&D that you followed is what I'm leaning to. I followed the 12 week 55mile plan for Dublin 2013 and went from 3.42 (2012) to 3.21, so I kinda trust the plans they have.

How have you found the plan and you happy with it?

Super times to date and best of luck for London.

overpronator

bigslice wrote: »

Well OP, great log and I enjoy reading it, I started at a similar time to you and would have had similar times along the way.

I'm not doing a spring marathon but am currently building up a base for Berlin in the Autumn. At the minute I'm looking at plans and the P&D that you followed is what I'm leaning to. I followed the 12 week 55mile plan for Dublin 2013 and went from 3.42 (2012) to 3.21, so I kinda trust the plans they have.

How have you found the plan and you happy with it?

Super times to date and best of luck for London.

Thanks Bigslice, do you log anywhere yourself? P&D was exactly what I needed as the increase in mileage over a consistent period has given as much of a training effect as the sessions I think. Id recommend it for the likes of ourselves at 3.15-3.30 and looking to push on ultimately to sub 3 territory. I didn't fancy upping mileage on a Daniels plan and adding in another session a week, I felt I would have buckled under that load.
Im very happy with the plan as its given me a shout at sub 3 which I wasn't expecting for London. I know I'm very much on the edge for sub 3 and it could well be a marathon cycle too early for me as I still think I lack a bit of the required speed over the shorter stuff. Hopefully I can address that with some focussed work over the summer and finally joining a club.
Id say get a good base into your legs (60+MPW for a few weeks if you can) and maybe sharpen up with some 10k training for 6-8 weeks and jump into the 12 week plan.

bigslice

overpronator wrote: »

Thanks Bigslice, do you log anywhere yourself? P&D was exactly what I needed as the increase in mileage over a consistent period has given as much of a training effect as the sessions I think. Id recommend it for the likes of ourselves at 3.15-3.30 and looking to push on ultimately to sub 3 territory. I didn't fancy upping mileage on a Daniels plan and adding in another session a week, I felt I would have buckled under that load.
Im very happy with the plan as its given me a shout at sub 3 which I wasn't expecting for London. I know I'm very much on the edge for sub 3 and it could well be a marathon cycle too early for me as I still think I lack a bit of the required speed over the shorter stuff. Hopefully I can address that with some focussed work over the summer and finally joining a club.
Id say get a good base into your legs (60+MPW for a few weeks if you can) and maybe sharpen up with some 10k training for 6-8 weeks and jump into the 12 week plan.

Thanks for the reply. I don't log anywhere myself for one reason or another, something to consider though.

I'd agree on the consistent increase with the P&D and its something that I am at ease with. Some say that's it a very repetitive at times with low level of MP miles but I'd be happy with that as you become more comfortable and controlled at a range of paces, dropping the pace for races has been an issue coming off the plan, after Dublin 2013 I ran 18.51 for a 5km with no real speed training.

I'm currently building up the mileage and have a few 10km's on the horizon with a half in late May, so your suggestion certainly will fit with my plans. Was looking at the 18wk plan but will check out the 12wk as well, if I'm clocking 60m the 12wk plan would follow on nicely.

I'll be keeping an eye on your London build up and from your race reports if you on track with 2/3 miles to go, I don't doubt you'll get under the 3hr.

Good luck and thanks again.

ThebitterLemon

S,

You've done really well on this training cycle.

Everything points to you hitting your goal but anything can happen on the day!

Like the others have said you marginally failed to hit a planned session in what sounds like tough conditions, just put it behind you and plough on.

TbL

menoscemo

+1 to what TbL said.
I really don't get the comment about you not being fast enough at the shorter distances for a 3 hr marathon. You are definitely fast enough given recent results.

If speed is the problem then I can think of two old codgers who are definitely fooked

ThebitterLemon

menoscemo wrote: »

+1 to what TbL said.
I really don't get the comment about you not being fast enough at the shorter distances for a 3 hr marathon. You are definitely fast enough given recent results.

If speed is the problem then I can think of two old codgers who are definitely fooked

Haha Meno, if I was to compare my shorter "speed" to OP's I'd be planning a sub 3.30 attempt

TbL