Timber!!

yaboya1

Super, super running Shane.
Brilliant result. Reading back on the race thread it looks like you ran the perfect race. Congratulations.

I'm coming after you now though

bigslice

Congrats and well done OP. Great stuff not just yesterday but over the past few years to put yourself in a place able to do that. Well earned.

Looking forward to the race report.

overpronator

Guys thanks so much for the messages, it means alot. I got back today and I'm still completely and utterly fooked, I wasn't able for much last night, stomach was in ribbons and a couple of pints had me nodding off. I watched the BBC coverage tonight and had a few beers, will do up a report tomorrow, suffice to say the splits looked consistent but it was a real battle from mile 1. The last 10k was absolutely horiffic.

NetwerkErrer

overpronator wrote: »

Guys thanks so much for the messages, it means alot. I got back today and I'm still completely and utterly fooked, I wasn't able for much last night, stomach was in ribbons and a couple of pints had me nodding off. I watched the BBC coverage tonight and had a few beers, will do up a report tomorrow, suffice to say the splits looked consistent but it was a real battle from mile 1. The last 10k was absolutely horiffic.

Cracking run op! As they say, nothing easy is worth doing and there was always going to be a battle in their somewhere! Fairplay on toughing it out and even lifting the pace towards the end. Not many around who picked off the sub-3 on their first attempt, well deserved man!

overpronator

yaboya1 wrote: »

Super, super running Shane.
Brilliant result. Reading back on the race thread it looks like you ran the perfect race. Congratulations.

I'm coming after you now though

That makes two of us, reckon I'm only keeping it warm for you though!

overpronator

Murph_D wrote: »

Bravo. Hearty congrats! Great to see another milestone from the Class of 2012.

Cheers D its great that there's still a few of us knocking about these parts keeping our mild ocd at bay!

overpronator

NetwerkErrer wrote: »

Cracking run op! As they say, nothing easy is worth doing and there was always going to be a battle in their somewhere! Fairplay on toughing it out and even lifting the pace towards the end. Not many around who picked off the sub-3 on their first attempt, well deserved man!

Thanks lad, its all down to BB67 and P&D 55-70!

overpronator

tang1 wrote: »

Superb stuff OP, expected to be honest after the great training block you put in. Very well done & enjoy the celebrations, hope the misus got on well to.

Cheers tang, she was 4 on the nose and a 17 min pb. Can't argue with that!

overpronator

bigslice wrote: »

Congrats and well done OP. Great stuff not just yesterday but over the past few years to put yourself in a place able to do that. Well earned.

Looking forward to the race report.

You're next

Duanington

Great stuff OP - sounds like you had a real battle on your hands and came out on top big time....well done :-)

adrian522

Hi OP, A few questions for you if you don't mind,

You followed P&D 55-70 I think.

If so, what did you think of the plan?

Anything you would change?

Did you do any races other than the proscribed races?

Did you run the 3 proscribed races in weeks 12, 14 and 16?

Thinking about this plan but it looks like a long slog from the start until you get till the race prep section..

Toblerone1978

adrian522 wrote: »

Hi OP, A few questions for you if you don't mind,

You followed P&D 55-70 I think.

If so, what did you think of the plan?

Anything you would change?

Did you do any races other than the proscribed races?

Did you run the 3 proscribed races in weeks 12, 14 and 16?

Thinking about this plan but it looks like a long slog from the start until you get till the race prep section..

Can I add another - is there anything you did change and with the benefit of hindsight, was it the right thing to do?

overpronator

Heya Adrian,

You followed P&D 55-70 I think.
Yep, I decided to follow the 12 week plan, with an extra 3 weeks to play with. I knew I would have 1 week where running would be very limited with some personal stuff and a stag, I wanted to insert 2 longer marathon paced sessions into the other two weeks.

If so, what did you think of the plan?
It was perfect for me from where I was coming from, I had been running one session a week for about a year previous so the format allowed me to up the mileage sensibly and keep a bit of the sharper running in there too. A plan like Daniels (for me) would probably have been a dangerous choice as I would have had difficulties increasing mileage and adding an extra session. I like the P&D sessions too which helps. I find the long tempo efforts early on brought my general fitness along and they are tough sessions physically and mentally. The midweek 15 milers do exactly what they say on the tin, it was more or less a 2 hour run for me every Wednesday and as it went on these got easier and faster which tells you something is working. The V02 max stuff at the end divides opinion and I can see why as they probably aren't truly specific marathon workouts for highly experienced and/or very fast marathoners (correct me if I'm wrong). For me, I feel that my efficiency at all paces improved with these sessions, could be result of the taper too but everything felt alot easier as the plan was closing out and these sessions helped with that. I think you get aserious aerobic gains from the other runs in the plan, these definitely sharpen those gains up, maybe biomechanically as much as anything, but obviously I'm no expert.

Anything you would change?
I felt like I needed more MP sessions, hence why I added some stuff in on extra weeks, this is a common complaint which is levelled at P&D. Also for me, there aren't enough long runs over 20 miles to feel confident attacking a big PB, the 12 week plan has just a 20 and a 21. I ended up doing 4x20, 1x21 and 2x22. This is personal but I felt like I needed more proper long runs to harden up the legs and mind.

Did you do any races other than the proscribed races?
I did the trim 10 miler but didn't race it, I did it at MP as part of a 20 miler. Apart from that no.

Did you run the 3 proscribed races in weeks 12, 14 and 16?
The 12 week plan had just the 2. Bohermeen fell in the correct week but naturally enough I didn't do the 17M long run the day after, I just chalked that one down as a change to the plan. I did a 10k two weeks out as prescribed and raced it, running a big PB. I can't say if this helped me on race day or not but I hit my goal so I would likely do it again.

Thinking about this plan but it looks like a long slog from the start until you get till the race prep section.
Its definitely a slog but I reckon that's true of all marathon training. I think that if you have a good base of running that doing 10k specific stuff beforehand and then jumping into the 12 week plan would a good way to do things, but the more experienced on here could advise you better on that I think.

Can I add another - is there anything you did change and with the benefit of hindsight, was it the right thing to do?
Heya Toblerone, that's a good question. Seeing as I hit my goal its a tough one to answer but if I put myself in a place where things did go really wrong towards the end then one is that I definitely feel is that my leg strength was poor. Hamstrings gave out on me (again) and my calfs and quads just about held on. I have never done any core work so that's something I need to address. Could also be that I was less comfortable and efficient at goal MP but I'm not sure. I think as goals get more aggressive that more MP running is important, take that with a pinch of salt though, nothing is set in stone as far as running is concerned!
I think that Bohermeen took a bit of the wind out of my sails training wise, I don't know if I would have the courage not to race a half in the buildup (I needed the validation of 1.23 to go for sub 3) but I found things considerably tougher from there on in, it took a long time to recover properly. Its one ill have to think about properly though!


Hope those rambles helped, all of it is just personal opinion, there's more than one way to skin a cat. Id say give P&D a shot, I ran a 17m PB, that's probably the best metric to judge it against!

adrian522

Thanks OP, good answers there.

For some reason I thought you did the full 18 week plan, which is what I'm looking at, having concentrated on shorter distances up to this point in the year.

I think I'd also like to do a half at some point too even though the plan only has races up to 10 miles.

kit3

Congrats on a great result OP. Interesting to read your observations on P&D. I'm looking at it too but at the up to 55 mile plan. As a matter of interest what type of plan did your OH follow - that was a great improvement too and more at my end of the scale

overpronator

kit3 wrote: »

Congrats on a great result OP. Interesting to read your observations on P&D. I'm looking at it too but at the up to 55 mile plan. As a matter of interest what type of plan did your OH follow - that was a great improvement too and more at my end of the scale

Cheers Kit, she followed P&D 12/55 and ran an 18 minute PB. It was her first time following any kind of plan and I think she really liked it. She followed it to the letter too.

kit3

overpronator wrote: »

Cheers Kit, she followed P&D 12/55 and ran an 18 minute PB. It was her first time following any kind of plan and I think she really liked it. She followed it to the letter too.

Thanks for that - ye both are a good endorsement for the plan

Note to self - get the finger out & read the book !

dintbo

Have to agree some great answers to the questions (and in fairness some pretty good running as well )

Overpronator for A/R tist in the spotlight!!!!

overpronator

So as I made my way through 11 miles in the Dublin Half Marathon last September I had just left the 90 min pacers and was feeling strong. I remember thinking to myself, this is 11 miles at sub 3 hour marathon pace, not as bad as I thought, wouldn't fancy it for 26 though! I suppose that was the point at which I subconsciously started to think that sub 3 wasn't just a place for the machines, maybe I could give it a lash over the next couple of years. I didn't for one moment think it would materialise so quickly after that day.
The journey to London 2015 really started here
I really wanted to give a spring marathon training a proper honest shot, following a plan and running higher mileage to move myself on. BeebBeep67 advised on a base phase for the rest of the year which went well, allowing me to increase mileage sensibly run a good PB in the Waterford Half (1.24.56). I absolutely feel that this phase was the makings of me over the following months and really allowed me to tackle P&D 55-70 in January.
Training went smoothly up until Bohermeen with just a few days missed for a virus. I ran 1.23.07 there so the sub 3 shot was viable at least. I saw out the last couple of weeks of training peaking at 75 miles and completing Tergat's 5-4-3-2-1 session on target which was good for confidence.

Race
Heading to London I was determined not to put myself under pressure, the plan was not to do anything stupid over the first 20 miles, get to half way no faster than 1.29.30 and not wimp out in the last 6. When I put it like that to myself the time pressure aspect of it was definitely reduced.
I lined up in pen 1 on the red start behind the 3 hour pacer. I had no intention of running with the pace group but once we set off I didn't fancy pushing ahead and have them snapping at my heels so I settled in for the moment. Right from the off I felt like I was racing, there was none of the ease into the marathon feeling Id always had previously so I knew it would be a grit the teeth day. I didn't getting worried though, that would come later! The pace group was massive and there was alot of bumping and elbowing over the first 5k in particular, maybe due to the fast nature of the opening miles but it all felt a bit frantic. As we hit Woolwich and the spectacular merge with the green and blue starts I was feeling better and enjoy things. The drummers under the bridge at 5 miles were great again and things began to feel easy for the first time as we made our way back to Greenwich and the Cutty Sark at 10k. The noise and crowds here were incredible, I enjoyed this part having let it pass me by last year
6.49, 6.44, 6.40, 6.43, 6.51 6.54
I hit a ropey patch around mile 8 as the pacer seemed to surge on. I let him go not wanting to change my effort and run his race, the hoardes took after him as you would expect and I got a good few elbows and whatnot as they pushed past. The distance between me and his flag stayed at about 30-40M so I wasn't too worried, I just wanted to get to Tower Bridge and through half way to see where I was at. The crowds again at mile 10 in Rotherhide were stunning, much bigger than I remembered last year plus there was a deadly bagpipes band, you forget how amazing the support is throughout this marathon is. I was still feeling crap, very bloated more than anything but it was coming in waves so I hoped it would pass. As we made our way to the turn onto Tower bridge road the roar in the distance could be heard and was growing. Heading up the drag with the noise and crowds it's the only time the likes of me would get to experience the feeling that pro athletes must get all the time. Its pretty mind blowing passing under that structure with the crowd and the screaming, I made sure to take it in despite feeling like my goose was cooked along this stretch. I passed halfway shortly after this in 01:29:33 so exactly on target.
6.50, 6.44, 6.48, 6.45, 6.41, 6.40, 6.41
The next phase of the race is a blur through pretty nondescript areas in the Isle of Dogs. I saw Meno along here and gave him a shout but we didn't get to run together for any length of time. As we ticked along through 16 miles the effort levels weren't rising too much which was good and I started to feel good again for a couple of miles to 18. The pacer told us we had about 45 seconds leeway which seemed correct, so I was settling in for the grind to the finish, 8 miles seemed a very long way though. We were into the middle of the skyscrapers at Canary Wharf by now, a bit I hated last year and had been looking forward to getting through since half way. The pacer surged on here again it seemed and I heard a few swears from people behind me, then out of nowhere I felt a coming together right behind me. A guy was tripped from behind and grabbed my back to steady himself, he splatted right down in what looked a sore one and was taking me with him:mad: He lost grip on my back at just the right time for me and I managed to steady myself banging my knee off a footpath, how I managed to stagger on to my feet without losing balance Ill never know. Sometimes you just need the luck to go for you and I was doubly blessed that nobody from behind us steamrollered me as I was getting back up. It all happened in a couple of seconds but even now I can see it clearly. At this point it was 19 or so miles and I decided to leave the pace group. Everyone was getting jumpy, me included and I didn't want to risk things being decided for me by a trip or a fall. I pushed ahead into open road and immediately started to feel not just better, but great. Was this it? Was I gonna hit for home 7 miles out?.... yep.......looks like it. ****.
6.44, 6.44, 6.41, 6.38, 6.52, 6.33, 6.37
I came through the 20 mile marker with over a minute to spare by the pace band but it was starting to get properly tough now, the legs were really tiring and I was afraid that my 1.5 mile surge was going to bite me. I spotted my fellow Louth man David Carrie up in the distance so I decided to try and catch him, this was great, I was racing it in I could feel the cramp starting to rise in my hamstrings by now though, I'm used to this, I've had to stop with cramp in all of my previous 4 marathons so I stayed calm. I eased back the pace a bit but it made no difference so I just picked it up again waiting for the inevitable to hit and hit it did, right a gel station around 22 miles. Sniper in the left hamstring. I stretched it for about 15 seconds and tried to get going but couldn't, it knotted up again, more stretching as the pacer steamed past me with his group. I remember thinking of AMK in Manchester last year at this point and thought I was finished. Luckily I got moving, walking, then hobbling and finally running. I got great shouts from the guy manning the gel station which gave me a lift, big thanks to him. A quarter mile on and it seemed ok, I was moving at 6.45 pace by the watch, the pace group were 50M up the road. I was really hurting at this stage and I kept wanting to stop. Finishing times had left my head by now, it was about seeing it out. Coming through the 23 mile mark I didn't think I had 3 miles in me and wanted to drop out, a radio car blasting out the Jackson 5 so loudly it shook my bones was such an assault on the senses that I nearly did just say fu*k this and pull over as I was passing. Mad. I knew I was catching pacer though which kept me going big time and a welcome downhill past Tower bridge again and onto Thames St perked me up, the noise here was incredible and for the first time I really felt it was pushing me on. I drew level with him going into the tunnel at 25 miles by the time we got up the hill on the other side I had passed him again. Open road ahead and through 25 miles. Dig in. I spotted David Carrie again so tried to focus on him from here. I was in agony and just to compound things my right hamstring got the sniper treatment, I pulled up and stretched again but got moving far more easily this time, only lost a few seconds. I remember saying to Meno after that I'd had a third cramp stop but for the life of me I cant remember where or for how long. The legs were absolutely shot now but the pace was holding true, 6.45 all the way. Keep this up and sub 3 is yours. One foot in front of the other was all I was capable of. It was still very much in the balance as Big Ben emerged in the distance, passing under that clock with it reading 1.04 was very satisfying. I made sure not to step on any bottles or make any sudden movements as I rounded onto Birdcage walk. This long lonely stretch was the toughest piece of running I've ever endured. I'll never forget it. My entire lower body was ready to give in, calf, quads and hamstrings were screaming, I knew I had at least 90 seconds in the bank but couldn't relax as it could just as easily just fall apart at any minute. There is some agony very visible on my face from the pictures along here! Finally the 600m to go sign, then the 385 yards and I knew it was done. I started to blow kisses like some kind of demented fool to the crowds roaring on from the Victoria Monument. Rounding by Buckingham Palace and turning onto the mall I was fist pumping, windmilling and anything I could think of . I crossed the line arms in the air and let out a big ol boggers roar. 2.58.20 I couldn't believe it.
6.48, 7.02, 6.41, 6.25, 6.41, 6.51, (6.21)
Once we had finished I don't mind saying I got a tad emotional for 3 or 4 minutes. It was genuinely nothing to do with my finishing time which is weird, I was just so completely and utterly fu*ked and spent after the previous 3 hours that I didn't know where I was at or what to do next. Every last piece of me was poured out on to those streets and I have never felt so exhausted. One of the volunteers followed me down the mall for a few minutes expecting me to keel over but once I got my bag and had a sit down I started to come around a bit. Wow. What an experience. The real satisfaction came from gutting it out to the end and refusing to give up, I know I was lucky though, Sub 3 was right in the balance for me over those last few miles, this could easily could have been a tale of woe so I'm extremely relieved to have gotten it done.
I saw Meno a while after and he looked like I had felt a couple of minute before. My OH came in then in exactly the same state. That's the marathon I suppose. Class.

http://app.strava.com/activities/292880465/overview

AuldManKing

Great report.
Those cramps are a ba$tard alright. Well done for getting through it.

Was there anything different that you done for this marathon in relation to cramps

Following the race, did the legs seize up??

overpronator

AuldManKing wrote: »

Great report.
Those cramps are a ba$tard alright. Well done for getting through it.

Was there anything different that you done for this marathon in relation to cramps

Following the race, did the legs seize up??

Cheers man and no I didn't do anything differently!, just waited to see if and when they would show up in the race:rolleyes:
The legs didn't sieze up after but I was careful no to put them in a position where that was possible. It has happened to me in the past though after the Frank Duffy this year they were really bad. Worrying when it happens after a 10 miler.

I think cramping is maybe the endpoint readout of different things for different people. For some it could be electrolytes for me I think it could be leg strength, I have weak hamstrings and have torn both of then a couple of times each from my GAA days so working on them would probably be a good place for me to start. I've run a couple of long runs over 3 hours with zero water or carbs on warmer days than last weekend but with zero issues so id be dubious that its that anyway. The one this is I've never took on the volume of salts in training that I would do in a marathon so maybe overloading is a problem also?

Have you suffered with any since Manchester?

adrian522

Well done OP, great report there. That pace group sounds like a right mess. Well done for seeing out out though.

Duanington

wow - what a performance.

I got a bit emotional myself reading that OP - very impressive result and a cracking report. Well done !!

tailgunner

Brilliant report, well done!

bigslice

Great run and great report. Well done.

BeepBeep67

Well done again Shane, as you said yourself

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PCkvCPvDXk

career move

That was deadly Well done again!

statss

Absolutely delighted for you Shane, your progress is sensational.

Bulmers74

Great stuff - delighted for ya. Inspirational report.

Murph_D

Heroic stuff, Shane. That's some pain management right there. Sincere, sincere congrats.