World Cup 2014 Super Thread copyright warning #1645

blueser

A fascinating insight into Bosnia's long, bloody journey from the carnage in what was Yugoslavia in the early nineties to the footballing carnival in Brazil this next few weeks.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jun/08/edin-dzeko-united-bosnia-world-cup

K4t

Corholio wrote: »

As someone mentioned he's not good enough to be starting for a top tier team, or even close really. A 2nd tier team, working hard and being effective, is where he will probably end up.

Yeah, that's why he's one of Utd's best players and consistently performs well in the biggest games including the CL. You're crazy calling him a 2nd tier player.

Pro. F

Smithwicks Man wrote: »

How can we possibly have a discussion when you refuse to use any possible means of comparing the squads? I'm guessing that this is because you have realised you can't prove your point because it is wrong and that's fine, but please just accept that.

I have not refused to use any possible means of comparing the talent pools available to the top nations. You are straw-manning.

Smithwicks Man wrote: »

You're telling me that the reason England don't perform as well as the other teams mentioned is solely because of the strategy employed and not because they don't have as good of a selection of players? Fair enough, I disagree.

Well not solely. They have underperformed in international football for the majority of it's 140 year existence, so obviously, not every year would they have had a strong pool of talent available. But yes, for all the other years when they have had a strong pool of talent and still underperformed. I put that down to their poor footballing strategy.

Smithwicks Man wrote: »

Well this is hilarious. If you had any sort of material to back up your point then you'd be typing it instead of saying you won't get into a discussion about it.

The material that I have to back up my point is the same as the material you have - my opinion on various players' abilities. We disagree about a lot of players. I'm not interested in carrying on that discussion into a new tangent because I think you are a time waster.

Apart from the fact that we completely disagree on the basic abilities and requirements of central midfielders I think that you are carrying on your argument, about how to judge the talent pool available to England, in an intellectually dishonest way - with straw men, ad hominem, appeals to authority, time wasting, etc.

Smithwicks Man wrote: »

I think my knowledge of De Jong surpasses yours seeing as I have seen every game he has played this year (50+) and I'm guessing you watched him play a handful of times, if even.

But then again, I don't see how anybody could take you seriously when you continually have called him a terrible passer of the ball despite everything pointing to the opposite.

Any player playing in the top league with a pass accuracy of 91.4% couldn't be a terrible passer of the ball. And if you had watched him play as much a I have, you'd also know that he doesn't just pass it backwards or complete 2 yards passes - he regularly sets up attacks and picks out solid medium-ranged passes every game.

The fact that you have watched de Jong so much and still think that he is an excellent dcm only convinces me that you are a poor judge.

I didn't say that de Jong only passes the ball backwards or 2 yards. I gave a far more nuanced explanation than that for how a weak CM can rack up good passing stats. But you ignore that of course.

If the situation were reversed and I had seen him more than you, I wouldn't expect you to change your opinion because of that. Neither of us is going to change our opinions on de Jong so there is no point arguing about it. Here's another option: Shut the fúck up about it.

Smithwicks Man

Pro. F wrote: »

Here's another option: Shut the fúck up about it.

I love the sound of the toys hitting the ground as they're thrown out of the pram

Careful now, another user could be inclined to report abuse like that


For the record, I don't think NDJ is an excellent player, I just think he is very, very good at what he does and is a much better player than those you've mentioned.

Anyway, we've clogged up enough of the thread so let's just agree to disagree.

Utopia Parkway

Looper007 wrote: »

I have Wilshire ahead of Henderson and I probably pick Ox (if he was fit ahead of Sterling) he has a little more experience. I don't get the love for Henderson, he's just a grafter for me.

Henderson works extremely hard but there is much more to his overall game that just hard work. Had 4 goals and 7 assists in the league last season. His finishing probably needs some work but his passing can be very good. Especially at slipping little through balls down the channels. Got a fair few of his assists from those kind of balls

Gbear

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

Henderson works extremely hard but there is much more to his overall game that just hard work. Had 4 goals and 7 assists in the league last season. His finishing probably needs some work but his passing can be very good. Especially at slipping little through balls down the channels. Got a fair few of his assists from those kind of balls

Really, if you were looking at a big shakeup and stuffing in all the young talent, it'd be Gerrard Henderson would be replacing.

He has the ability but being the engine room for a team in the WC might require more balls than he has.

Corholio

K4t wrote: »

Yeah, that's why he's one of Utd's best players and consistently performs well in the biggest games including the CL. You're crazy calling him a 2nd tier player.

One of United's best players? Not that that has been much to crow about in the season just gone, but has he been better than Van Persie, Rooney, Mata, De Gea, Evra etc. He will not be a consistent started for United or any top 4 team in the next 6 or 7 years, I will gladly take my medicine if I am wrong but I'm pretty confident he won't.

K4t

Corholio wrote: »

One of United's best players? Not that that has been much to crow about in the season just gone, but has he been better than Van Persie, Rooney, Mata, De Gea, Evra etc. He will not be a consistent started for United or any top 4 team in the next 6 or 7 years, I will gladly take my medicine if I am wrong but I'm pretty confident he won't.

Yep he was a standout player last season and offered more than Van Persie in all round play scoring only three fewer goals than him. The only other outfield players who were as good are Rooney and Mata. Welbeck was also our best player in the ties against Bayern and against Real last season. He will be key to any success Utd have over the next decade.

The reason for all the criticism he receives is in your post, because he's a Utd player. Utd fans criticise him for a few missed chances (1v1 with Neuer a big one) plus genuine disappointment with the team and club (hell even Van Persie has come in for criticism a fair bit) and opposition fans simply because it's their favourite hobby to belittle Utd and their players, especially when the club struggles. The same is true with Rooney at the moment, even if he is not at his best.

Corholio

K4t wrote: »

Yep he was a standout player last season and offered more than Van Persie in all round play scoring only three fewer goals than him. The only other outfield players who were as good are Rooney and Mata. Welbeck was also our best player in the ties against Bayern and against Real last season. He will be key to any success Utd have over the next decade.

The reason for all the criticism he receives is in your post, because he's a Utd player. Utd fans criticise him for a few missed chances (1v1 with Neuer a big one) plus genuine disappointment with the team and club (hell even Van Persie has come in for criticism a fair bit) and opposition fans simply because it's their favourite hobby to belittle Utd and their players, especially when the club struggles. The same is true with Rooney at the moment, even if he is not at his best.

Absolute and utter rubbish. Nothing to do with being an United player at all, if anything I'm slightly more biased towards United because of family connections. Your not going to be one of those United fans that can't accept criticism are you? There's lots of valid criticism against him.

You do realise Van Persie missed a decent sized part of the season and still scored more. Welbeck scored 1 Champions League goal and before he scored in October for United, he hadn't scored at Old Trafford in over 14 months.

He won't be 'key' to any success United have. Better players will come in and easily displace him.

K4t

Corholio wrote: »

Absolute and utter rubbish. Nothing to do with being an United player at all, if anything I'm slightly more biased towards United because of family connections. Your not going to be one of those United fans that can't accept criticism are you? There's lots of valid criticism against him.

You do realise Van Persie missed a decent sized part of the season and still scored more. Welbeck scored 1 Champions League goal and before he scored in October for United, he hadn't scored at Old Trafford in over 14 months.

He won't be 'key' to any success United have. Better players will come in and easily displace him.

I criticise all Utd players, a lot, it's hard not to after the season just gone. But the blatant attack on Welbeck in particular in recent days due to his deserved and continuing inclusion in the England team I simply can not ignore. I acknowledge that his finishing has not been great at times but then you also have to allow for the fact that he is more often than not played wide to allow for Rooney or Rvp and he still scored 9 league goals this season.

As for his all round game, it is fantastic and is rewarded by managers with starts for both club and country.

kfallon

Italy with 3 goals in 3 minutes go 5-2 up

Smithwicks Man

kfallon wrote: »

Italy with 3 goals in 3 minutes go 5-2 up

Immobile has done himself a lot of favours tonight

A 4-3-1-2 of:

De Rossi---Pirlo---Verratti

---

Cassano

---

--Balotelli

---

Immobile---

is a very solid attack. Can't see them lining up like that though

Cantona's Collars

kfallon wrote: »

Italy with 3 goals in 3 minutes go 5-2 up

5-3 now.

mike65

The Shop Steward telling the media where to go.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/jun/08/gary-neville-england-roy-hodgson-world-cup

Paully D

Get your predictions in lads and we'll see who comes closest at the end of the tournament, it'll be something to look back on. My effort is below. Getting the scores correct doesn't really matter to me, it's all about getting the right teams in

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/world-cup/10501412/World-Cup-2014-Wallchart-Predictor-Game.html

dreamers75

ummm as ever i pick **** all draws.

greendom

France setting themselves up for a fall with an 8 - 0 win in their send off match. Wouldn't see Roy do anything daft like that.

miralize

Beefy78

Agueroooo wrote: »

Johnson.
Rooney.
Welbeck ..

Need to to dropped if England have any chance. They are passengers out there and a big liability imo.

Literally nonsense.

Johnson is the only right back in the squad, Rooney is England's top competitive goalscorer of all time, scored 20 this season despite playing for a midtable side and scored seven in qualifying to top score yet again).

You must have a weird definition of "passenger".

Neeson

obezyana

I predict a Germany Argentina final with Argentina to win. Brazil and Uruguay for the 3rd and 4th place spots.

kingtiger

Spain v Brazil final for me with Spain edging it 2-1

I don't believe Messi is 100% there is something not right with him at the moment, proven by him vomiting constantly on the pitch over the last few matches he has played, so just cant go with the Argies without a fully fit Messi

greendom

Brazil to win it on home soil for the first time.

Morzadec

Great article about Bosnia, Dzeko, and what the World Cup means to Bosnia.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jun/08/edin-dzeko-united-bosnia-world-cup

Apart from the fact it would be an amazing story, I said that this World Cup I would probably have a slight bias towards European teams and small nations. Bosnia fit the bill for both so will probably be the team I'll be getting behind in Brazil.

Paully D

This post is adapted a bit from one I made on the betting forum, but lots of people seem to be writing Croatia completely off on opening night and I'm not so sure that is wise. A look at the last 10 World Cups tells us only Germany (1994), Brazil (1998) and Germany (2006) have won when favoured on opening night:

1974 - Brazil drew 0-0 with Yugoslavia
1978 - West Germany drew 0-0 with Poland
1982 - Argentina lost 1-0 to Belgium
1986 - Italy drew 1-1 with Bulgaria
1990 - Argentina lost 1-0 to Cameroon
1994 - Germany beat Bolivia 1-0
1998 - Brazil beat Scotland 2-1
2002 - France lost 1-0 to Senegal
2006 - Germany beat Costa Rica 4-2
2010 - Mexico drew 1-1 with South Africa

I think Brazilians could be in for a bit of a shock if they think they'll just turn up and blitz Croatia to get things off to a nice start. Croatia are a decent side in any case, and the trend indicates that there's a very big possibility of an upset (i.e., Brazil not winning).

TheTownie

Anyone know a shop selling a world cup wall chart poster?

Would love to stick one up on the wall.

Col200sx

TheTownie wrote: »

Anyone know a shop selling a world cup wall chart poster?

Would love to stick one up on the wall.

I just logged in to post that exact question!

I got one yesterday with the Indo, which is the official one (I think), the blue one, but that's just a fixture list pullout really.

Looking for a big chart where you fill out the tables, scores, and further fixtures etc

Dickerty

Great video here from John Oliver (was guest host of The Daily Show for a while) about what a shambles FIFA are, in relation to the WC and beyond -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlJEt2KU33I

aodea

Smithwicks Man wrote: »

The possession-based style that Spain play, as boring as it can be sometimes, should also help to conserve energy for the later stages of the tournament as well.

It's a pity Navas isn't with them, think he would've offered more than Torres who I would have behind Costa and Villa in the pecking order for attack.

Actually statisically you run almost as much buy keeping possession. (will try find the link) They only way to conserve energy as mentioned is by sitting deeper and conservsing energy on defensive side by being compact.

Nuri Sahin

Paully D wrote: »

This post is adapted a bit from one I made on the betting forum, but lots of people seem to be writing Croatia completely off on opening night and I'm not so sure that is wise. A look at the last 10 World Cups tells us only Germany (1994), Brazil (1998) and Germany (2006) have won when favoured on opening night:

1974 - Brazil drew 0-0 with Yugoslavia
1978 - West Germany drew 0-0 with Poland
1982 - Argentina lost 1-0 to Belgium
1986 - Italy drew 1-1 with Bulgaria
1990 - Argentina lost 1-0 to Cameroon
1994 - Germany beat Bolivia 1-0
1998 - Brazil beat Scotland 2-1
2002 - France lost 1-0 to Senegal 2006 - Germany beat Costa Rica 4-2
2010 - Mexico drew 1-1 with South Africa

I think Brazilians could be in for a bit of a shock if they think they'll just turn up and blitz Croatia to get things off to a nice start. Croatia are a decent side in any case, and the trend indicates that there's a very big possibility of an upset (i.e., Brazil not winning).

Odds have nearly been slashed by half since a week ago While I fancy Brazil will win by the odd goal, Croatia's midfield will certainly give Brazil some problems, Mandzukic being suspended is a big worry though.

fuzzydunlop85

Lads heard on itv the other night something about injury worries for van persie? Any word on this?

Al Capwned

My effort....
I dont know if I even agree with myself here!

batistuta9

Paully D wrote: »

This post is adapted a bit from one I made on the betting forum, but lots of people seem to be writing Croatia completely off on opening night and I'm not so sure that is wise. A look at the last 10 World Cups tells us only Germany (1994), Brazil (1998) and Germany (2006) have won when favoured on opening night:

1974 - Brazil drew 0-0 with Yugoslavia
1978 - West Germany drew 0-0 with Poland
1982 - Argentina lost 1-0 to Belgium
1986 - Italy drew 1-1 with Bulgaria
1990 - Argentina lost 1-0 to Cameroon
1994 - Germany beat Bolivia 1-0
1998 - Brazil beat Scotland 2-1
2002 - France lost 1-0 to Senegal
2006 - Germany beat Costa Rica 4-2
2010 - Mexico drew 1-1 with South Africa

I think Brazilians could be in for a bit of a shock if they think they'll just turn up and blitz Croatia to get things off to a nice start. Croatia are a decent side in any case, and the trend indicates that there's a very big possibility of an upset (i.e., Brazil not winning).

That's just a variation of gamblers fallacy

Winston Payne

fuzzydunlop85 wrote: »

Lads heard on itv the other night something about injury worries for van persie? Any word on this?

He came off at half time during one of their friendlies last week as a precaution over a groin injury/issue. He struggled with it in training over the weekend. According to himself though he hasn't been pain free in six years and is good to go so...

fearrua

Anyone watching the Greece-Bolivia friendly on Setanta? I really do have too much free time...

Pepe LeFrits

I had a go at the predictor (not taking it too seriously, I pay very little attention to international footie these days!), and I had Portugal beating Argentina in the final, with Brazil hammering Spain in the 3rd place play off. Spain v Colombia, France v Portugal, Brazil v Uruguay and Argentina v Germany the QFs.

El Horseboxo

Nice act by Neymar. I'd say it made that kids year.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEONQ-hf7Ts

kfallon

Latest Nike ad

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iy1rumvo9xc

blueser

Morzadec wrote: »

Great article about Bosnia, Dzeko, and what the World Cup means to Bosnia.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jun/08/edin-dzeko-united-bosnia-world-cup

Apart from the fact it would be an amazing story, I said that this World Cup I would probably have a slight bias towards European teams and small nations. Bosnia fit the bill for both so will probably be the team I'll be getting behind in Brazil.

That country has come through an awful ot since the carnage of the early nineties

Smithwicks Man

aodea wrote: »

Actually statisically you run almost as much buy keeping possession. (will try find the link) They only way to conserve energy as mentioned is by sitting deeper and conservsing energy on defensive side by being compact.

Physically the stats may be similar, but it is much more draining mentally to concentrate on keeping the opposition out and chase the ball than it is to play with it. Or at least I'd like to believe that :P

Nuri Sahin

Neymar injured in training...

Smithwicks Man

Nuri Sahin wrote: »

Neymar injured in training...

Badly injured ?

FatherTed

Still strikes going on there for public transport. I was talking to a colleague today who works in our Sao Paolo office and they've been telecommuting because travel throughout the city has become impossible.

kwestfan08

TheTownie wrote: »

Anyone know a shop selling a world cup wall chart poster?

Would love to stick one up on the wall.

The Observer had a great one yesterday so I picked it up. In sure there''ll be a few knocking around the the next few days. Don't think any tabloid has given away any yet

TheTownie

kwestfan08 wrote: »

The Observer had a great one yesterday so I picked it up. In sure there''ll be a few knocking around the the next few days. Don't think any tabloid has given away any yet

I've seen a lot of tabloids promoting their digital versions. Hopefully a physical version pops up.

dreamers75

The Star did a crap black and white on yesterday.

Paddy Power have an A4 printable one which is decent.

http://blog.paddypower.com/2014/05/20/print-and-share-your-all-singing-all-dancing-world-cup-2014-wallchart/

googled eyes

Neymar injured in training. Not sure how serious

TheTownie

Bosnia staff escape attempted robbery;

Paulo Freitas ‏@Cynegeticus 2m
Bosnia's manager Safet Susic and his staff escaped an armed robbery in Guarujá, the police sirens scared off the robbers. #WorldCup

Corholio

kwestfan08 wrote: »

The Observer had a great one yesterday so I picked it up. In sure there''ll be a few knocking around the the next few days. Don't think any tabloid has given away any yet

The Sun gave away one weekend before last, The Star and The Sunday Mirror too.

764dak

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/worldcup2014/article-2649499/Rachel-Riley-crunches-numbers-ahead-World-Cup-tips-Chile-lift-trophy.html