World Cup 2014 Super Thread copyright warning #1645

mike65

Even the Italians are worried about the state of Manaus stadium/pitch. Must be bad.

Nerdlingr

Watching it last night as well I thought, "In fairness to Joey Barton, Thiago silva does look a bit like a ladyboy".

DDC1990

People have very short memories tbh.

Group games, are very misleading.

Croatia are a hell of a lot better then that Swiss side.

Now consider the pressure that Brazil were under last night, and they still pulled out a win.

Of course some players aren't going to preform in an environment like that, but the likes of Fred, Hulk and Paulinho who under performed last night, will start to gel better and perform better.

Brazil have an excellent chance of winning this World Cup.

DildoFaggins

DDC1990 wrote: »

People have very short memories tbh.

Group games, are very misleading.

Croatia are a hell of a lot better then that Swiss side.

Now consider the pressure that Brazil were under last night, and they still pulled out a win.

Of course some players aren't going to preform in an environment like that, but the likes of Fred, Hulk and Paulinho who under performed last night, will start to gel better and perform better.

Brazil have an excellent chance of winning this World Cup.

Any basis on why you believe they have a chance? serious answers please not because they are hosting it,how they performed in the mickey mouse invitational last year or the heat please.

Oh and I watch Paulinho week in week out he is nothing short of rubbish and I have been to WHL to watch him.Can't comment on Fred but don't expect much from him and Hulk is awful why do you think he has avoided a top 4 league?

Yes brazil pulled out the win courtesy of FIFA,but the hype this team is getting is just laughable.

That_Guy

DDC1990 wrote: »

Brazil have an excellent chance of winning this World Cup.

Agreed. Huge pressure on every team to not lose their first game. Double pressure on Brazil who are host nations opening the tournament when all eyes are on them nationally and internationally to put on a performance.

Bit of a mess of a game unfortunately but writing them off is stupid at this early stage. They'll only grow imo.

TimeToShine

Jaysus we must have been watching different games yesterday.

Outplayed for the first half hour before Neymar scuffs a shot into the corner, those kind of shots miss 9 times out of 10.

Then an outrageous penalty - no coming back from that. Third goal was a mere formality.

I'd nearly fancy Columbia or Chile to beat Brazil, let alone the actual powerhouse teams. You can't win a world cup with passengers like Hulk, Fred, Paulinho, Luiz.

I still want them to win but they won't. Not a hope.

Vincent Vega

So... how awkard looking is that folding arms thing FIFA had the players do for the lineups :pac:

Nerdlingr

Vincent Vega wrote: »

So... how awkard looking is that folding arms thing FIFA had the players do for the lineups :pac:

Some of them look ridiculous. Kovacic looked like he was freezing, the poor fella, I just wanted someone to give him a blanket!:D

Edit: The germans think of everything. Would love to go to this!!:pac:

http://www.theguardian.com/football/gallery/2014/jun/13/world-cup-2014-world-cup-football#/?picture=439318367&index=6

Ferris_Bueller

Morzadec wrote: »

Brazil have done an excellent job of turning me against them tonight.

Anyone but Brazil from here on out for me

Posted something similar in the match thread but why do so many people feel like this after last nights game? Neither team dominated and in my eyes you could say all 4 goals in the game were lucky (2x keeper mistakes, an OG and a penalty that shouldn't have been), but for none of them did it feel like Brazil cheat for any of them?

The referee was clearly more lenient to Brazil throughout the game, and the penalty was ridiculous, but surely this are more refereeing mistakes than reasons to dislike Brazil? Not trying to argue but just wondering why, is it to do with a 'FIFA agenda' or the Brazil team itself?

Maximus Alexander

Ferris_Bueller wrote: »

The referee was clearly more lenient to Brazil throughout the game, and the penalty was ridiculous, but surely this are more refereeing mistakes than reasons to dislike Brazil? Not trying to argue but just wondering why, is it to do with a 'FIFA agenda' or the Brazil team itself?

I think stuff like the dive for the penalty and intentional elbow to the face, twinned with the apparent 'FIFA agenda' is leaving a bad taste in people's mouths. And I think it's directed at both FIFA and Brazil.

Nerdlingr

Fred thanking God after he cheated to win a penalty. Luiz and his stupid handshakes with Marcelo before the game. Scolari in the faces of the linesman throughout the match, contesting every decision. Then saying we must abide by the ref's decisions after the game when his side were gifted a penalty. Scolari looking for the opposition to get booked with his imaginary card. Gustavo and Silva, amongst others, jumping up into the air after clearing a ball trying to win free kicks. And finally - one of the worst opening ceremonies in any sport. EVER.

Mr.Micro

Nerdlingr wrote: »

Fred thanking God after he cheated to win a penalty. Luiz and his stupid handshakes with Marcelo before the game. Scolari in the faces of the linesman throughout the match, contesting every decision. Then saying we must abide by the ref's decisions after the game when his side were gifted a penalty. Scolari looking for the opposition to get booked with his imaginary card. Gustavo and Silva, amongst others, jumping up into the air after clearing a ball trying to win free kicks. And finally - one of the worst opening ceremonies in any sport. EVER.

All that money that Brazil has spent, it has to be justified. I was disgusted at the antics last night and the bias ref. If this is what we are going to get in every game Brazil play, then I will be very disappointed. FIFA had lost all credibility and integrity with the likes of Blatter still in charge..

DildoFaggins

That match was not refereeing mistakes not at all, Everton vs Newcastle back in the start of the 2012/2013 season had 2 awful and poor refereeing mistakes.

That Ref didn't make poor decisions it's almost laughable how blind people are to what's actually going on if FIFA/EUFA want something they will try their best to get it Ajax/Lyon CL incident 2010 anyone?

Again if Modric elbowed Neymar he would have been sent off Fellaini has been elbowing people for years and picked up bookings,
the fact that Neymar even looked at Modric and still went into him elbow first like that is comical to say the least.

On the Ollic/Cesar incident it seems people are clutching at straws however had it been 0-0 and Fred impeded the Croatia keeper well I think we know what would happen let's not play dumb and deny it.

Sure Croatia might still go through If they win the other games but if Brazil don't slip up they will have to play presumably Spain.However one would think the refs won't play a part for Brazil till the Knockouts as that team should be able to pick up atleast 4 points from Mexico and Cameroon,thus trying to appear like the croatia game was just bad "refereeing.

grumpymunster

greendom wrote: »

No Brazil are going to grow into this tournament. Even on last night's showing I see them winning the whole thing.

Brazil are a long way from the best team in the tournament, the only way I can see them winning is by favorable decisions. That may well happen but I hope not.

Ormus

Lucas Hood wrote: »

Apparently Hernandez doesn't start tonight.

Source?

greendom

Ormus wrote: »

Source?

Surely that should be salsa ?

Ormus

The problem with Brazil is that they have the wrong team selection. I'd bring Hernanes or Ramires in for Paulinho and Willian or Hernanes for Hulk.

Fred up front is still a problem, but he's still a good finisher and he will get chances.

Amazing that Fernandinho didn't make the squad, so much better than what they have.

Corholio

Ormus wrote: »

The problem with Brazil is that they have the wrong team selection. I'd bring Hernanes or Ramires in for Paulinho and Willian or Hernanes for Hulk.

Fred up front is still a problem, but he's still a good finisher and he will get chances.

Amazing that Fernandinho didn't make the squad, so much better than what they have.

He did.

greendom

They have plenty of strength in depth and playing at home carries a huge advantage once you get over the weight of expectation. i don't think Argentina are good enough defensively and European teams just can't do it in South America. It's Brazil's by default almost.

To be honest, be prepared for even more controversial decisions...and wait for the debate about having video referees recirculate once some major team get's knocked out of the tournament because of a bad call.

The only consolation is that at least the goal line tech is active.

Maximus Alexander

greendom wrote: »

They have plenty of strength in depth and playing at home carries a huge advantage once you get over the weight of expectation. i don't think Argentina are good enough defensively and European teams just can't do it in South America. It's Brazil's by default almost.

In fairness, it's been 36 years since the World Cup was last held in South America, so this information might be out of date. And out of the last 10 World Cups, the hosts have only won three of them.

The only way Brazil will win is through favourable treatment, it won't happen through quality.

Smithwicks Man

greendom wrote: »

They have plenty of strength in depth and playing at home carries a huge advantage once you get over the weight of expectation. i don't think Argentina are good enough defensively and European teams just can't do it in South America. It's Brazil's by default almost.

Now there's a stereotype that's being banded about an awful lot.

I wouldn't pass much heed on other WC's in South America when the European teams couldn't win it, which is most likely because they weren't good enough at the time.

Lucas Hood

Ormus wrote: »

Source?

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/international/mexico-v-cameroon-chicharito-will-have-to-bide-his-time-1.1830335

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/worldcup2014/article-2656778/Mexico-vs-Cameroon-All-stats-facts-team-news-second-game-Group-A.html

jmayo

Ferris_Bueller wrote: »

Posted something similar in the match thread but why do so many people feel like this after last nights game? Neither team dominated and in my eyes you could say all 4 goals in the game were lucky (2x keeper mistakes, an OG and a penalty that shouldn't have been), but for none of them did it feel like Brazil cheat for any of them?

The referee was clearly more lenient to Brazil throughout the game, and the penalty was ridiculous, but surely this are more refereeing mistakes than reasons to dislike Brazil? Not trying to argue but just wondering why, is it to do with a 'FIFA agenda' or the Brazil team itself?

A lot of us older folk will remember the flamboyant Brazil sides of say 1982 or even 1970.
And yes I know they did not win 82, but they were magical to watch.

The Brazil team that won in 94 lacked a lot of that, but they were still better than this current crop.
Likewise with 98, 2002 when you had the liks of Ronaldo, Cafu, Roberto Carlos , Rivaldo (cheating git that he was), Ronaldinho, Kaka, Juninho.

This team has none of that style and take out Oscar and Neymer of last nights team and they were nothing special.
So the glamour, the special spectacular touchers, the joyous football that Brazil once brought to the game is no longer there.

Pele, Carlos Alberto or one of the famous ones from 1970 were asked how many of the 94 team would get on their team, to which they answered NONE.
Of coruse Romario threw a strop over that, but I would hate to hear their answer about the current team.

Added to that the "homer" ref who did them a few favours last night has left a sour taste in a lot of people's mouths.
Without that ref and the added fact the Croat goalie is not that great Brazil would have really struggled last night.

So I sincerly hope that a not so great Brazil team, with more than a few passengers, do not get to a final because we might see a situation like the Rugby WC in NZ where the ref affectively decided the game very much in favour of the home team.

BTW IMHO the difference between a bad ref and a corrupt ref is a bad one usually makes bad discisions for each team.
Last night I only saw only one team really suffering from his decisions.

Corholio

jmayo wrote: »

A lot of us older folk will remember the flamboyant Brazil sides of say 1982 or even 1970.
And yes I know they did not win 82, but they were magical to watch.

The Brazil team that won in 94 lacked a lot of that, but they were still better than this current crop.
Likewise with 98, 2002 when you had the liks of Ronaldo, Cafu, Roberto Carlos , Rivaldo (cheating git that he was), Ronaldinho, Kaka, Juninho.

This team has none of that style and take out Oscar and Neymer of last nights team and they were nothing special.
So the glamour, the special spectacular touchers, the joyous football that Brazil once brought to the game is no longer there.

Pele, Carlos Alberto or one of the famous ones from 1970 were asked how many of the 94 team would get on their team, to which they answered NONE.
Of coruse Romario threw a strop over that, but I would hate to hear their answer about the current team.

Added to that the "homer" ref who did them a few favours last night has left a sour taste in a lot of people's mouths.
Without that ref and the added fact the Croat goalie is not that great Brazil would have really struggled last night.

So I sincerly hope that a not so great Brazil team, with more than a few passengers, do not get to a final because we might see a situation like the Rugby WC in NZ where the ref affectively decided the game very much in favour of the home team.

BTW IMHO the difference between a bad ref and a corrupt ref is a bad one usually makes bad discisions for each team.
Last night I only saw only one team really suffering from his decisions.

If they get to the final it will be because they will deserve to get there, citing home favouritism is an all too convenient excuse, especially when there's only 1 match gone for god sake. Unless refs make a ridiculously biased decision in every game they play, this corrupt ref stuff is nonsense.

Everyone knows this Brazil team isn't as good as previous teams, for some reason people seem to be holding that against them.

greendom

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

In fairness, it's been 36 years since the World Cup was last held in South America, so this information might be out of date. And out of the last 10 World Cups, the hosts have only won three of them.

The only way Brazil will win is through favourable treatment, it won't happen through quality.

Well anywhere in America then . Brazil won (with a pretty unfancied side) in the States in 94, and Argentina in Mexico in 86. Point taken its' still afair while ago but playing on the American continent does seem to put European teams at a disadvantage.

On the other hand, maybe that has changed. Spain were the first European team to win the WC when it wasn't held in Europe in 2010.

Maximus Alexander

Corholio wrote: »

Everyone knows this Brazil team isn't as good as previous teams, for some reason people seem to be holding that against them.

Does "holding it against them" mean the same thing as "acknowledging it and saying that they won't win the World Cup as a result"?

greendom wrote: »

Well anywhere in America then . Brazil won (with a pretty unfancied side) in the States in 94, and Argentina in Mexico in 86. Point taken its' still afair while ago but playing on the American continent does seem to put European teams at a disadvantage.

On the other hand, maybe that has changed. Spain were the first European team to win the WC when it wasn't held in Europe in 2010.

It's a fair point, but I think the quality of European national teams has come on enormously in the last 20 years. Spain, for example, are a whole different animal to what they were in the 80s / 90s.

Corholio

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Does "holding it against them" mean the same thing as "acknowledging it and saying that they won't win the World Cup as a result"?

Not really. Some people seem to have developed a will for Brazil not to win because they don't have Pele's and Ronaldo's in their team. This leads to all this ref corruption nonsense. Some just acknowledge it, but some bizarrely seem to have an anti-Brazil line of thinking.

Maximus Alexander

Corholio wrote: »

Not really. Some people seem to have developed a will for Brazil not to win because they don't have Pele's and Ronaldo's in their team. This leads to all this ref corruption nonsense. Some just acknowledge it, but some bizarrely seem to have an anti-Brazil line of thinking.

I would have thought a lot of that was down to what happened last night, rather than the quality of their squad, no? That was the impression I got at least. I didn't hear a lot of ill will prior to last night.

Son Of A Vidic

jmayo wrote: »

A lot of us older folk will remember the flamboyant Brazil sides of say 1982 or even 1970.
And yes I know they did not win 82, but they were magical to watch.

The Brazil team that won in 94 lacked a lot of that, but they were still better than this current crop.
Likewise with 98, 2002 when you had the liks of Ronaldo, Cafu, Roberto Carlos , Rivaldo (cheating git that he was), Ronaldinho, Kaka, Juninho.

This team has none of that style and take out Oscar and Neymer of last nights team and they were nothing special.
So the glamour, the special spectacular touchers, the joyous football that Brazil once brought to the game is no longer there.

Pele, Carlos Alberto or one of the famous ones from 1970 were asked how many of the 94 team would get on their team, to which they answered NONE.
Of coruse Romario threw a strop over that, but I would hate to hear their answer about the current team.

Added to that the "homer" ref who did them a few favours last night has left a sour taste in a lot of people's mouths.
Without that ref and the added fact the Croat goalie is not that great Brazil would have really struggled last night.

So I sincerly hope that a not so great Brazil team, with more than a few passengers, do not get to a final because we might see a situation like the Rugby WC in NZ where the ref affectively decided the game very much in favour of the home team.

BTW IMHO the difference between a bad ref and a corrupt ref is a bad one usually makes bad discisions for each team.
Last night I only saw only one team really suffering from his decisions.

Pele always had a high opinion of himself and he wasn't even the best player on that great Brazilian team. If the magical 1982 team had of focused more on winning and less on walking the ball into the net, they probably would have won that WC in Spain. Facing the savage Claudio Gentile and his marshaled defense didn't help matters of course. But I think all Brazil fans would agree, that this team doesn't even enter into the conversation when you judge it by the great teams of the past. Watching a Brazilian midfield bereft of guile and imagination is a first for me. And as long as they keep following the money to Europe and neutering their natural flair & ability, then I think Brazilian teams will continue to deteriorate. The best thing that could happen in the long term, is for them to come up short. Hopefully that might force some soul searching and maybe lead them back to reestablishing a link to their trademark amazing football.

Corholio

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

I would have thought a lot of that was down to what happened last night, rather than the quality of their squad, no? That was the impression I got at least. I didn't hear a lot of ill will prior to last night.

A lot of it was there during the Confederations too though. I don't really know what it is, whether it's because the tournament has had all the stadium planning problems, the rioting problems etc etc. It just seems present in some places.

kfallon

jmayo wrote: »

Pele, Carlos Alberto or one of the famous ones from 1970 were asked how many of the 94 team would get on their team, to which they answered NONE.
Of coruse Romario threw a strop over that, but I would hate to hear their answer about the current team.

Taffarel would have cos the keeper in '70 was absolute muck!

Romario was class tho, everyone loved his toe-pokes

jmayo

Corholio wrote: »

If they get to the final it will be because they will deserve to get there, citing home favouritism is an all too convenient excuse,

Ehh deserve often has nothing to do with it.
Most people reckon that Argentina made it to the final in 1978 thanks in no small part to their junta having a chat with a junta in Peru.
Granted they were a pretty good team, but one of their results was more than just lucky.

Italy won the world cup in their country thanks to Mussolini having little chats with refs over dinner the night before games.
Hell he picked the ref for the final by all accounts.

Recently (2002) we had a macth between home side Sth Korea and Italy where some questionable decisions ensured that the home nation stayed in the tournament.

Anyway this is FIFA FFS, need I say more.

Corholio wrote: »

especially when there's only 1 match gone for god sake. Unless refs make a ridiculously biased decision in every game they play, this corrupt ref stuff is nonsense.

We can but hope.

Corholio wrote: »

Everyone knows this Brazil team isn't as good as previous teams, for some reason people seem to be holding that against them.

Maybe we are, maybe it is because they are nowhere near holding up their once great tradition, despite all the hype about some of them.

redmca2

After last night's match (not that exceptional in any way), why oh why do people insist in calling it "the beautiful game"???

In the world of "sport" the cynicism in professional football is probably second only to professional wrestling

efb

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skNc9RFBAek

Smithwicks Man

Ferris_Bueller wrote: »

Posted something similar in the match thread but why do so many people feel like this after last nights game? Neither team dominated and in my eyes you could say all 4 goals in the game were lucky (2x keeper mistakes, an OG and a penalty that shouldn't have been), but for none of them did it feel like Brazil cheat for any of them?

A few people said this to me today as well. Was I the only one who thought that Pletikosa wasn't at fault for the 2 Brazil goals from play?

The first one went in off the post and not many keepers would have saved it imo and the second was right in the corner.

Although he probably should have done better on the second, I wouldn't call either goal a goalkeeping error.

Maximus Alexander

Smithwicks Man wrote: »

A few people said this to me today as well. Was I the only one who thought that Pletikosa wasn't at fault for the 2 Brazil goals from play?

The first one went in off the post and not many keepers would have saved it imo and the second was right in the corner.

Although he probably should have done better on the second, I wouldn't call either goal a goalkeeping error.

I often wonder is there a difference between just not having quick enough reflexes, not moving fast enough, not having enough reach and an error? Like if I take a shot and it goes straight at the keeper, is that an error, or am I just a rubbish shot? Is there a difference?

String

Is anyone else already sick of that Brazil theme song. It's especially annoying on ITV they play it every ad break aswell.

greendom

Smithwicks Man wrote: »

A few people said this to me today as well. Was I the only one who thought that Pletikosa wasn't at fault for the 2 Brazil goals from play?

The first one went in off the post and not many keepers would have saved it imo and the second was right in the corner.

Although he probably should have done better on the second, I wouldn't call either goal a goalkeeping error.

Agreed, even with the 2nd goal, Oscar took the shot very quickly. Usually you would expect the striker to take another step and steady himself; I think it was that speed that surprised and ended up beating him more than anything else.

He went the right way for the pen too, stronger wrists and he would have saved it.

Nerdlingr

Thought Lovren wasnt great on the last one. Just go and close down the man - he backed off him and seemed to move to cover his left for some reason (even though there was no-one with Oscar in attack!). Didnt think the first one was the keepers fault either...those scuffy efforts always seem to catch keepers out.

Smithwicks Man

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

I often wonder is there a difference between just not having quick enough reflexes, not moving fast enough, not having enough reach and an error? Like if I take a shot and it goes straight at the keeper, is that an error, or am I just a rubbish shot? Is there a difference?

I always considered an error as being a goal that most goalkeepers at that level would have saved. I don't think that most goalkeepers would have saved either of those two goals. Pletikosa wasn't poorly positioned when either shot was taken and he showed earlier in the match with a nice diving save that his reflexes were fairly good.

Any shot that goes straight down the middle is usually a bad shot as that's where the keeper is most likely to be positioned but both goals where in the corner.

The penalty was probably the goal that he had the best chance of saving because he got a decent hand on it, but I'd never really blame a keeper for not saving a peno as they're not expected to save them in the first place.

SantryRed

The penalty was harsh on Pletikosa. It had nothing to do with not having strong wrists. The problem was the gap between his hands. If you look at it again, he actually saves it with his right hand, but then hits the back of his left and goes in.

He had a poor game and looked very nervous from the get go. He had a clearance to make after 5 seconds and shanked it and that set the tone for his entire game.

Neeson

Jim Beglin on the first match.

ShaneU

This "Mexican" player is definitely Irish, you're not fooling anyone Michael Lyons

miralize

ShaneU wrote: »

This "Mexican" player is definitely Irish, you're not fooling anyone Michael Lyons

He has definitely worked on a farm at some point in his life.

Simon201

Just watching that match there. What is the 'distance' thing that is shown on the bottom of the screen when a player comes off? Is it like the distance he's run during the match or something? Does that mean every player has some kind of GPS device in their kit?

Nib

Anyone else on Twiiter have that World Cup fixtures banner at the side? Confusing the hell out of me.

They're using CE time, so all games are an hour ahead.

Missed the first half of the Mexico-Cameroon game.

greendom

Nib wrote: »

Anyone else on Twiiter have that World Cup fixtures banner at the side? Confusing the hell out of me.

They're using CE time, so all games are an hour ahead.

Missed the first half of the Mexico-Cameroon game.

Good job they weren't in Brazilian time. You'd be sat in front of the tv for 4 hours waiting for the game to start

RobbingBandit

5pm, 8pm, 11pm are the kick off times at the moment for the rest of the group games, think there is a 2am one on later tonight.

Darkglasses

Simon201 wrote: »

Just watching that match there. What is the 'distance' thing that is shown on the bottom of the screen when a player comes off? Is it like the distance he's run during the match or something? Does that mean every player has some kind of GPS device in their kit?

Yeah it'll be the distance covered by the player. I don't think they're using GPS to calculate it, I'd say it's done by a camera tracking all the players.