World Cup 2014 Super Thread copyright warning #1645

Andersonisgod

Meglamonia wrote: »

It's only Panama in fairness, he'll be up against much tougher opposition in a couple of weeks.

Certainly there'll be tougher opposition to come for Neymar, but Panama aren't the pushovers you might believe, they have a quite decent FIFA ranking and came very close to reaching a play off to get to the World Cup.

Neeson

They say all the women in Brazil want to have Neymar's babies.

Corholio

Neeson wrote: »

They say all the women in Brazil want to have Neymar's babies.

They'll have to give his dad some money first before they do though :pac:

Andersonisgod

Corholio wrote: »

Why when anyone disagrees with you do use the '...then there's no point in continuing the conversation' spiel. It's ridiculous. You'd swear Barcelona never passed him the ball or something. He probably will have a better season next year, I just don't know why your like garlic to any criticism of a Barca player.

You obviously completely missed the my point about players built around them. The difference is those players played fantastic enough to have those teams built around them and perform with both teams. Not having a team built around you is no excuse for not performing.

It's far more than "they didn't pass him the ball." Perhaps I am being a bit harsh but really in terms of top class football teams, the difference between this Brazil side and this Barcelona side is really quite pronounced, I'd rather not go into great length about it as I believe it would be a waste of time in stating the obvious, ironically my explanation for not wishing to go into great depth has taken time too.

And Neymar isn't fantastic enough to have this Brazil team built around him? Somebody should tell Menez, now Scolari, and the entire nation of Brazil and then find a replacement that they can build the side around. His performances at the Confederations Cup haven't been bad meanwhile he is now Brazil's highest scorer in the 21st century, overtaking Ronaldo, not bad, given his age.

Meglamonia

Oh the selecao have comprehensively beaten Panama in a breath-taking display of attacking football spear-headed by the one and only Neymar,the god of Brazilian football, the inferior opposition couldn't get near him with his dazzling skills.

This is a Brazilian team only gearing up towards their road to Rio ready to wipe out any opposition that comes before them.As seen tonight merciless in attack only showing a glimpse of what is to come. Splitting the great Panama defense at will like a hot knife through butter.

This is an outstanding Brazilian team, the world will be set alight when Brazil's golden boy Neymar is unleashed onto the world stage,Il joga bonito!

Andersonisgod

Meglamonia wrote: »

Oh the selecao have comprehensively beaten Panama in a breath-taking display of attacking football spear-headed by the one and only Neymar,the god of Brazilian football, the inferior opposition couldn't get near him with his dazzling skills.

This is a Brazilian team only gearing up towards their road to Rio ready to wipe out any opposition that comes before them.As seen tonight merciless in attack only showing a glimpse of what is to come. Splitting the great Panama defense at will like a hot knife through butter.

This is an outstanding Brazilian team, the world will be set alight when Brazil's golden boy Neymar is unleashed onto the world stage,Il joga bonito!

Personally I fancy La Roja but that Brazil side is formidable. Ferocious in it's pressing, aggressive in it's tackling, an impressive mix of athleticism and creativity with much of the genius emanating from Brazil's boy-wonder Neymar.

Smithwicks Man

Andersonisgod wrote: »

His performances at the Confederations Cup haven't been bad meanwhile he is now Brazil's highest scorer in the 21st century, overtaking Ronaldo, not bad, given his age.

Now there's a laughable statistic considering Ronaldo scored the majority of his goals for Brazil before the turn of the millennium?

Andersonisgod

Smithwicks Man wrote: »

Now there's a laughable statistic considering Ronaldo scored the majority of his goals for Brazil before the turn of the millennium?

Yes he did. Meanwhile Neymar is currently 22. He isn't even a striker. He's appeared 48 times for his country, he has 31 goals. In this century players such as Ronaldo, Rivaldo, Ronaldinho, Kaka, Luis Fabiano, Adriano, Robinho, Pato and probably more that I am forgetting have all played and scored for Brazil in this century. I simply don't understand why you can't/don't appreciate the 22 year old wingers phenomenal record.

Smithwicks Man

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Yes he did. Meanwhile Neymar is currently 22. He isn't even a striker. He's appeared 48 times for his country, he has 31 goals. In this century players such as Ronaldo, Rivaldo, Ronaldinho, Kaka, Luis Fabiano, Adriano, Robinho, Pato and probably more that I am forgetting have all played and scored for Brazil in this century. I simply don't understand why you can't/don't appreciate the 22 year old wingers phenomenal record.

I can appreciate his excellent record for his country but it's this nonsense hype that you're creating that I find bizarre.

What about Barcelona's illegal dealings with regards to buying the player?

What about the fact that he was very underwhelming in many domestic performances and anonymous in several Champions League games?

What about the fact that he's a notorious diver and cheat?

I think it's all set up for him to have a good World Cup and I enjoy watching him play (apart from his cheating and feigning injuries) but you're far too biased in your opinions for my liking.

eagle eye

Neymar is a fantastic player and he has scored against top teams like Spain, Germany and Argentina. He might not have settled in fully at Barca yet but I'm sure he will. He will be one of the stars of this world cup even though I don't think Brazil will win it. I don't understand how anybody doubts his ability at international level with all that he has done in such a short time playing for his country.

Andersonisgod

Smithwicks Man wrote: »

I can appreciate his excellent record for the club but it's this nonsense hype that you're creating that I find bizarre.

What about Barcelona's illegal dealings with regards to buying the player?

What about the fact that he was very underwhelming in many domestic performances and anonymous in several Champions League games?

What about the fact that he's a notorious diver and cheat?

I think it's all set up for him to have a good World Cup and I enjoy watching him play (apart from his cheating and feigning injuries) but you're far too biased in your opinions for my liking.

I appear to have missed a rather significant chapter of this saga because I was quite clearly talking about his stunning goal ratio for Brazil and about the record which he broke with his goal tonight and yet suddenly you have entirely ignored all of that and gone onto his club performances.

1. I'm not sure exactly what that has to do with Neymar or indeed his performances for Brazil.

2. Again, I'm not sure how that affects his incredible record for his national team (the topic of what we were talking about) but the negativity surrounding his first season has been overhyped, as someone who actually watched it I can safely say it was decent, occasionally even excellent and that, given the time and the right support, he can become a great player for Barcelona, perhaps even in time, the great player at Barcelona.

3. Ok how many top attacking players can you name that you've never seen dive/exaggerate contact/make a claim for a decision when it's blatantly obvious that they are lying to gain an advantage for their team?

Perhaps I am biased but I also attempt to remain on topic.

Liamalone

Damn Chrome has messed up my links, thought this was the World Cup thread not the Neymar discussion thread :P

Smithwicks Man

Andersonisgod wrote: »

I appear to have missed a rather significant chapter of this saga because I was quite clearly talking about his stunning goal ratio for Brazil and about the record which he broke with his goal tonight and yet suddenly you have entirely ignored all of that and gone onto his club performances.

1. I'm not sure exactly what that has to do with Neymar or indeed his performances for Brazil.

2. Again, I'm not sure how that affects his incredible record for his national team (the topic of what we were talking about) but the negativity surrounding his first season has been overhyped, as someone who actually watched it I can safely say it was decent, occasionally even excellent and that, given the time and the right support, he can become a great player for Barcelona, perhaps even in time, the great player at Barcelona.

3. Ok how many top attacking players can you name that you've never seen dive/exaggerate contact/make a claim for a decision when it's blatantly obvious that they are lying to gain an advantage for their team?

Perhaps I am biased but I also attempt to remain on topic.

I wrote club instead of country there by mistake, I do think is record for Brazil is impressive and that he's a very good player but it's your general hyperbole and exaggerations that I find bemusing. If you're not in awe of Spain's possession stats then you're giddy about Neymar scoring against Panama.

I'd say you must have spent a fortune on underwear over the last few years you've probably creamed yourself that much over Spain and Barca winning a few titles.

Without trying to get the last jab, I saw plenty of him this season and he was far from excellent.

And trying to justify Neymar's cheating by saying that everybody else is at it as well is ridiculous. I'm not going to start naming top attacking players who don't cheat when the fact is there are very few, if any, who do it as consistently and blatantly as he does.

Liamalone wrote: »

Damn Chrome has messed up my links, thought this was the World Cup thread not the Neymar discussion thread :P

I can see this being dragged out so I'll leave it as it is although I think discussing Neymar's performances for club and country is relative enough to the WC

Andersonisgod

Smithwicks Man wrote: »

I wrote club instead of country there by mistake, I do think is record for Brazil is impressive and that he's a very good player but it's your general hyperbole and exaggerations that I find bemusing. If you're not in awe of Spain's possession stats then you're giddy about Neymar scoring against Panama.

I'd say you must have spent a fortune on underwear over the last few years you've probably creamed yourself that much over Spain and Barca winning a few titles.

Without trying to get the last jab, I saw plenty of him this season and he was far from excellent.

And trying to justify Neymar's cheating by saying that everybody else is at it as well is ridiculous. I'm not going to start naming top attacking players who don't cheat when the fact is there are very few, if any, who do it as consistently and blatantly as he does.


I can see this being dragged out so I'll leave it as it is although I think discussing Neymar's performances for club and country is relative enough to the WC

Indeed I've had the foresight to buy a whole new set of underwear purely in preparation for this World Cup given how high my expectations are for Spain (and Neymar) at the competition.

Then you didn't see enough, he more than excelled in quite a few games last season. I expect more next season.

You can watch any game of football and over the course of 90 minutes you will see multiple examples of players feigning injury, exaggerating contact or blatantly lying to officials in an attempt to gain an advantage for their team (which, in any other sport would be classified as cheating or, at the very least, unsporting). Go ahead, watch any game at the World Cup and try not to find at least 3 examples.

Corholio

Andersonisgod wrote: »

It's far more than "they didn't pass him the ball." Perhaps I am being a bit harsh but really in terms of top class football teams, the difference between this Brazil side and this Barcelona side is really quite pronounced, I'd rather not go into great length about it as I believe it would be a waste of time in stating the obvious, ironically my explanation for not wishing to go into great depth has taken time too.

And Neymar isn't fantastic enough to have this Brazil team built around him? Somebody should tell Menez, now Scolari, and the entire nation of Brazil and then find a replacement that they can build the side around. His performances at the Confederations Cup haven't been bad meanwhile he is now Brazil's highest scorer in the 21st century, overtaking Ronaldo, not bad, given his age.

Thats not what I said at all. I said those players had teams (plural) built around them and had earned the fact that that happens. I was talking about Barcelona, of course he has the team built around him at Brazil. He's been their best attacking hope for years. I like Neymar, my original point above all this other side stuff, is that he didnt play well this season for Barcelona. The style of play is not a good enough reason for such a highly rated player to play poorly, of course he'll probably play better next year.

As for Neymar 'cheating', he does tend to exaggerate tackles a lot more than the average player. While I wouldnt be astounded, given the player, I'd be surprised you could argue against that with a straight face.

So....the World Cup yeah....

Andersonisgod

Corholio wrote: »

Thats not what I said at all. I said those players had teams (plural) built around them and had earned the fact that that happens. I was talking about Barcelona, of course he has the team built around him at Brazil. He's been their best attacking hope for years. I like Neymar, my original point above all this other side stuff, is that he didnt play well this season for Barcelona. The style of play is not a good enough reason for such a highly rated player to play poorly, of course he'll probably play better next year.

As for Neymar 'cheating', he does tend to exaggerate tackles a lot more than the average player. While I wouldnt be astounded, given the player, I'd be surprised you could argue against that with a straight face.

So....the World Cup yeah....

So the style of play/football philosophy/system doesn't matter? The framework is just a throw away thing to be disregarded at will? Of course it has an impact, of course it will affect a player that young coming from South America and playing in a new league for the first time, even moreso because it is Barcelona and because the philosophy takes such precedence. I'd normally just let this kind of comment slide but I can't help but take issue with it. I'll use an example. Javier Mascherano is a fantastic player, he was fantastic at Liverpool in midfield, he is regularly fantastic for Argentina in midfield. Why isn't he fantastic for Barcelona in midfield? Infact why has he so rarely played in midfield for Barcelona? This is, afterall, an excellent player and yet he hasn't been allowed to play in his best position, why? Oh yes, the system, because as a midfielder he hasn't suited the system. To say that the system isn't a fair excuse for a player not performing is mind boggling, it's a massive reason for why any player may underperform or fail to fit in.

Of course I could because your claim is based on perception, made up rules and an undefined quantity calculator. How many rolls on the ground = 1 loud howl when tackled?

In any case, that's the last I have to say on this. Onwards and upwards to the World Cup!

Corholio

Andersonisgod wrote: »

So the style of play/football philosophy/system doesn't matter? The framework is just a throw away thing to be disregarded at will? Of course it has an impact, of course it will affect a player that young coming from South America and playing in a new league for the first time, even moreso because it is Barcelona and because the philosophy takes such precedence. I'd normally just let this kind of comment slide but I can't help but take issue with it. I'll use an example. Javier Mascherano is a fantastic player, he was fantastic at Liverpool in midfield, he is regularly fantastic for Argentina in midfield. Why isn't he fantastic for Barcelona in midfield? Infact why has he so rarely played in midfield for Barcelona? This is, afterall, an excellent player and yet he hasn't been allowed to play in his best position, why? Oh yes, the system, because as a midfielder he hasn't suited the system. To say that the system isn't a fair excuse for a player not performing is mind boggling, it's a massive reason for why any player may underperform or fail to fit in.

Of course I could because your claim is based on perception, made up rules and an undefined quantity calculator. How many rolls on the ground = 1 loud howl when tackled?

In any case, that's the last I have to say on this. Onwards and upwards to the World Cup!

I didn't say it doesn't matter, I said it's not an excuse. I also didn't say the system, I said the style of play. If your going to argue points, which is always fair enough, at least argue on what I actually said. The Mascherano-neymar comparison isn't bad, except for the fact I can never see Neymar playing in a completely different role to an attacking one, he was always be a forward player, in whatever guise that takes. I also don't think Neymar has a set best position either, he floated a bit for Santos from the left and has done that quite often for Brazil too.

But yes onto the World Cup.

aodea

To use a point that Neymar has been poor for Barca but the style of play does not suit him does not really hinder or have any relevance for what he will do for Brazil.

Maradona was not great for Barca but was the best player on the planet for Argentina. Brazil give Neymar more responsabilty and he thrives with it. The job he is asked to do for Barca does not really come into the equation> i think he was poor for Barca this year but i think its soley because he has been so pre occupied by this world cup. I feel you will see a differnt player for barca after this summer. he is rumored to have not wanted to go to europe till after the world cup in the first place.

Neymar looks like he has been able to leave barca form behind him and switch the level up a few gears. be great to watch this world cup.

Brazil look very good on the attack. they have a good unit much tougher tests lie ahead. You can say Panamas world ranking is ok but they were dreadful last night. Modric and co will offer a much better idfea of how this Brazil team will fair.

patmac

The German's are quite pessimistic according to a few of the locals, Ozil in particular is acting the Bollix a bit with his father demanding money for everything especially interviews, the fact that his form has been dreadful this year and he was substituted against Cameroon the other night means he is not guaranteed a starting spot.

mike65

Rooney moved to left side with Barkley starting at the no 10 position in tonights game.

klose

Big jazza milner is playing right back too, who said the hodge wasn't pragmatic. ..

Beefy78

I was wondering last night if Milner might play there. Taking seven defenders did make sense with Smalling and Jones able to cover there but this weakness is really going to show now.

Slightly surprised to see Rooney starting.

glued

England could definitely use Milner at right back. Johnson is such a weak link.

If I was Hodgson I'd start with this team against Italy

Hart
Milner Cahill Jagielka Baines
Sterling Gerrard Henderson Welbeck
Rooney Sturridge

Not thrilled about Welbeck on the left but he constantly does the business for England. Hodgson didn't really play Sterling at all so it'll be interesting to see does he start against Italy. He'll definitely play Johnson at right back and Milner will probably start for England on one of the wings too.

Italy should really beat England tbh.

Beefy78

No way England will play 4-4-2.

leonidas83

patmac wrote: »

The German's are quite pessimistic according to a few of the locals, Ozil in particular is acting the Bollix a bit with his father demanding money for everything especially interviews, the fact that his form has been dreadful this year and he was substituted against Cameroon the other night means he is not guaranteed a starting spot.

I don't really understand their pessimism. They have the best goalkeeper, defense & midfield in the competition.
Neuer, Hummels, Lahm, Mertesacker, Boateng, Schweinsteiger, Khedira, Ozil, kroos, draxler, Gotze, Reus, Muller.

Their only weakness seems to be in attack, relying on a 35 year old klose although Podolski could play that position too

Outside of Argentina, they are my favourites for it

patmac

Will this be close to the starting line up against Italy? They seem particularly weak this year and with Rooney off-form and his lack of enthusiasm for football when he is away from home, they could struggle to make it out of the group.

eagle eye

leonidas83 wrote: »

I don't really understand their pessimism. They have the best goalkeeper, defense & midfield in the competition.
Neuer, Hummels, Lahm, Mertesacker, Boateng, Schweinsteiger, Khedira, Ozil, kroos, draxler, Gotze, Reus, Muller.

Their only weakness seems to be in attack, relying on a 35 year old klose although Podolski could play that position too

Outside of Argentina, they are my favourites for it

Best defense in the competition? How have they a better defense than Spain?
How have they a better midfield than Spain?

Adamcp898

leonidas83 wrote: »

I don't really understand their pessimism. They have the best goalkeeper, defense & midfield in the competition.
Neuer, Hummels, Lahm, Mertesacker, Boateng, Schweinsteiger, Khedira, Ozil, kroos, draxler, Gotze, Reus, Muller.

Their only weakness seems to be in attack, relying on a 35 year old klose although Podolski could play that position too

Outside of Argentina, they are my favourites for it

eagle eye wrote: »

Best defense in the competition? How have they a better defense than Spain?
How have they a better midfield than Spain?

That and something which seems to get lost with all the attacking stereotypes is just how good Brazil can be defensively.

Smithwicks Man

eagle eye wrote: »

Best defense in the competition? How have they a better defense than Spain?
How have they a better midfield than Spain?

Or Brazil among others

eagle eye

Brazil have an excellent defense too but for me Spain are best because they exceptional cover for an injury at centre-back or full-back. Having Juanfran, Jordi Alba and Azpilicueta is pretty ridic and Ramos is also cover there as well. Then at centre-back you have Pique, Ramos and Javi Martinez with Raul Albiol who seems to have found a different level of form since moving to Italy.

Brazil probably have the best starting back four but they don't have the same level of cover as Spain. I don't like David Luiz at centre-back and I don't think their full-back cover is that good. I was surprised to see Maicon get picked ahead of Felipe Luis and Rafinha and if they had picked Miranda as centre-back cover I'd have them probably ahead of Spain as the best defense in the World Cup.

Nerdlingr

Who's people suprise package the year gonna be? There's always one every WC... S.Korea. Bulgaria. Sweden. Turkey. etc
We all know Belgium are shoe in for the dark horse title but what about the likes of the Ivory Coast/ Bosnia ?? Cant wait for it all to kick off.

xtal191

Nerdlingr wrote: »

Who's people suprise package the year gonna be? There's always one every WC... S.Korea. Bulgaria. Sweden. Turkey. etc
We all know Belgium are shoe in for the dark horse title but what about the likes of the Ivory Coast/ Bosnia ?? Cant wait for it all to kick off.

Chile for me

Nerdlingr

xtal191 wrote: »

Chile for me

Was thinking Chile too but then saw what group they're in. Depends what Holland turns up.

LightningBlue

If Chile come second in their group they're likely meeting Brazil in the Round of 16 again. (like in 2010)
Chile have only beaten Brazil once in their last 19 games. :eek

They're my favourite team to watch of the South American teams but they got screwed by the draw.

I think Croatia will do well as dark horses - but they'll probably run into Spain in the 2nd round

Rayne Wooney

Holland haven't as good a team as I thought and Strootman is a big loss, I think they'll get out of the group but beyond that not sure

I think Japan could be a surprise, defence is a problem but they have some technically gifted attacking players and play football that's great to watch.

MR NINE

switzerland and croatia are my dark horse predictions. belgium too if they count, though considering theyre fifth favourites they cant really be considered dark horses imo. croatia have a tough draw, switzerland could go far imo. they have a very mean defense and a decent amount of quality in the team and a reasonable draw

greendom

MR NINE wrote: »

switzerland and croatia are my dark horse predictions. belgium too if they count, though considering theyre fifth favourites they cant really be considered dark horses imo. croatia have a tough draw, switzerland could go far imo. they have a very mean defense and a decent amount of quality in the team and a reasonable draw

1 defeat in 19 games shows they're in very good form too.

SlickRic

Belgium are not a dark horse.

LightningBlue

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Holland haven't as good a team as I thought and Strootman is a big loss, I think they'll get out of the group but beyond that not sure

I think Japan could be a surprise, defence is a problem but they have some technically gifted attacking players and play football that's great to watch.

Agreed on Japan; they were brilliant to watch at the Confederations Cup last year especially the game against Italy.
If they get out of the group they could easily get to the quarter finals.

leonidas83

eagle eye wrote: »

Best defense in the competition? How have they a better defense than Spain?
How have they a better midfield than Spain?

Germany 11-2 Spain 13-2

Muirshin Durkin

Nerdlingr wrote: »

Who's people suprise package the year gonna be? There's always one every WC... S.Korea. Bulgaria. Sweden. Turkey. etc
We all know Belgium are shoe in for the dark horse title but what about the likes of the Ivory Coast/ Bosnia ?? Cant wait for it all to kick off.

Croatia

klose

SlickRic wrote: »

Belgium are not a dark horse.

Shocking how they are 6th favourites with the bookies.

eagle eye

leonidas83 wrote: »

Germany 11-2 Spain 13-2

What has that got to do with my question?

Corvo

Lads, will SkySports be covering a lot of the games live? Been thinking of getting rid of it but will hold off if they have a lot of those games

eagle eye

Corvo wrote: »

Lads, will SkySports be covering a lot of the games live? Been thinking of getting rid of it but will hold off if they have a lot of those games

BBC and ITV have all the games.

Smithwicks Man

Corvo wrote: »

Lads, will SkySports be covering a lot of the games live? Been thinking of getting rid of it but will hold off if they have a lot of those games

Sky don't have any of the games at all.

eagle eye wrote: »

BBC and ITV have all the games.

Plus RTE will have every single game live.

Can't stand listening to the commentary on ITV

Neeson

Smithwicks Man wrote: »

Sky don't have any of the games at all.

Plus RTE will have every single game live.

Except the final group games. All teams in a group play at the same time.

kfallon

Neeson wrote: »

Except the final group games. All teams in a group play at the same time.

The other group games will be streamed live on RTE.ie I think.

Have one on the telly, stick the other on the laptop, that's how to do it

Neeson

kfallon wrote: »

The other group games will be streamed live on RTE.ie I think.

Have one on the telly, stick the other on the laptop, that's how to do it

That's true. They used to have the other game on BBC3 as well I think.

mike65

For anyone who wants to watch Holland play Wales its on S4C and BBC2 Wales.