On top of the bar...

MrVestek

Myrddin wrote: »

Sweet. Tonight's reading sorted so. Thanks for all the help guys

Did you do much renaming of roms to match Hyperspin's XML files or did you do everything yourself from scratch?

Hyperspin Rom Matcher seems to be having issues with some of my PSX and Saturn roms.

The Last Bandit

Hyperspin uses the TOSEC naming convention so a lot of the goodroms stuff is all mislabeled which is a bit of pain.

MrVestek

The Last Bandit wrote: »

Hyperspin uses the TOSEC naming convention so a lot of the goodroms stuff is all mislabeled which is a bit of pain.

Found any good matching programs?

Myrddin

MrVestek wrote: »

Did you do much renaming of roms to match Hyperspin's XML files or did you do everything yourself from scratch?

Hyperspin Rom Matcher seems to be having issues with some of my PSX and Saturn roms.

Haven't had to rename anything at all thus far Though it's all Mame roms so far, does the renaming only occur with console stuff?

MrVestek

Myrddin wrote: »

Haven't had to rename anything at all thus far Though it's all Mame roms so far, does the renaming only occur with console stuff?

The MAME stuff is handy as it's usually the same naming convention for everything.

The fun and games comes if you already have rom packs that are in a certain format and the XML file for the console is in another format.

For instance in the XML file if it says:

Sonic The Hedgehog 2 (EU) but your bin is named Sonic The Hedgehog 2 (EUR) then it won't match up.

Fun fun fun...

Myrddin

Ah I get ya now. I don't have any console roms at all so will be building up the file list from scratch. I won't focus too heavily on console stuff though really, a few of the classics from the 16bit era & older I'd say will be all.

The Last Bandit

MrVestek wrote: »

Found any good matching programs?

Fatmatch

Its supposed to match up media files with the ROMs and bulk rename the closet matches.
I feed it the (known correct) hyperspin videos or artwork as the ROM name and let it match those again the actual mismatch of roms I have (all legally owned) and it will rename the roms to match the media files

Really cuts down the amount of faffing about.

MrVestek

The Last Bandit wrote: »

Fatmatch

Its supposed to match up media files with the ROMs and bulk rename the closet matches.
I feed it the (known correct) hyperspin videos or artwork as the ROM name and let it match those again the actual mismatch of roms I have (all legally owned) and it will rename the roms to match the media files

Really cuts down the amount of faffing about.

Excellent, must check that out when I get home.

Just thought I'd point out that the PSX and Saturn roms I mentioned above are only what I already have on disc. Of course.

Steve X2

Here's a couple of thousand Hyperspin formatted XML's.

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B8aWLXavqJuIU2ZOZEktQkFzTVU&usp

Should cover a lot of genres on a lot of systems, as well as MAME.
The Databases.rar file in there is just all of them compressed if you want to grab them all in one go.

Steve X2

As promised earlier.

I've attached the prescale file and the relevant ini file code is below.
Now, this is for a 1080p display. If you have a different resolution you might need to change stuff(but probably not). I'm still fine tuning it, but this is where I am at the moment.

#
# DIRECT3D POST-PROCESSING OPTIONS
#
hlsl_enable               1
hlslpath                  hlsl
hlsl_ini_read             0
hlsl_ini_write            0
hlslini                   %g
hlsl_prescale_x           0
hlsl_prescale_y           0
hlsl_preset               -1
hlsl_write                
hlsl_snap_width           1920
hlsl_snap_height          1080
shadow_mask_alpha         0.1
shadow_mask_texture       aperture.png
shadow_mask_x_count       320
shadow_mask_y_count       240
shadow_mask_usize         0.09375
shadow_mask_vsize         0.109375
curvature                 0.0
pincushion                0.02
scanline_alpha            1.0
scanline_size             1.0
scanline_height           1.0
scanline_bright_scale     1.0
scanline_bright_offset    0.0
scanline_jitter           0.00
defocus                   0.1,0.1
converge_x                0.2,0.0,0.0
converge_y                0.0,0.0,0.0
radial_converge_x         0.2,0.0,0.0
radial_converge_y         0.0,0.0,0.0
red_ratio                 0.85,0.15,0.0
grn_ratio                 -0.05,1.05,0.0
blu_ratio                 -0.025,-0.025,1.05
saturation                1.0
offset                    -0.15,-0.16,-0.16
scale                     1.15,1.16,1.16
power                     1.1,0.95,0.8
floor                     0.0,0.0,0.0
phosphor_life             0.0,0.0,0.0

Make sure you don't have any other kind of filtering going on like scanlines or direct x filters. The "effect" should be blank.

#
# CORE SCREEN OPTIONS
#
brightness                1.0
contrast                  1.0
gamma                     1.0
pause_brightness          1.0
effect

Edit:-
Some samples, its clearer in a video but these will give you an idea.

All Good(code above, sharp arcade monitor).
http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/1581/clzs.png

Not so good(most code shared online, someone spilled Vaseline on arcade monitor).
http://img837.imageshack.us/img837/4324/a87r.png

Abomination(no filters :eek:, shoot me in the face now please).
http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/1951/be7m.png

Again, a video shows it better.

Good (nice amount of sharpness, but not too much)


Not as good (it still looks good, but its blurry as it's had a linear effect applied before an HLSL is applied)


I must sort out a video comparison as it really shows up there.

.

Myrddin

Fantastic Steve, only back from a night course so will take a look at this in the morning :cool:

MrVestek

Yeah going to try this out myself tonight after re-sanding and re-spraying some of my own cab to cover up some holes.

I'm struggling to see the difference between 'perfect' and 'not as good' as posted up above Steve.

Care to help my silly eyes see the difference?

MrVestek

MrVestek wrote: »

Care to help my silly eyes see the difference?

Looks at the 8 in the score at the bottom!
it is blurry but deffo hard to notice

Steve X2

It's not as obvious in a pic. But if you make the changes and don't notice anything then sure it doesn't really matter ;0)

If you understand why it's slightly more blurry (the linear filter) then it should drive you crazy that it's being applied at all! It's blurred before you do any HLSL settings at all.

MrVestek

Was that something flying over my head just then?

*edit*

I see the difference now. It's subtle but it's there.

Steve X2

I swear, it's not an "emperors new clothes" thing

MrVestek

Steve SI wrote: »

I swear, it's not an "emperors new clothes" thing

No no I see it now. I looked at the number 8 in the hud as suggested and I can definately see the difference.

You script does look alot better. I have to try it out on my own bartop soon.

You know I really wish that there was a scanlines graphics driver out there. I don't see why one hasn't been done before at all.

Steve X2

MrVestek wrote: »

No no I see it now. I looked at the number 8 in the hud as suggested and I can definately see the difference.

You script does look alot better. I have to try it out on my own bartop soon.

You know I really wish that there was a scanlines graphics driver out there. I don't see why one hasn't been done before at all.

Yeah, something that could be added into the Arcade VGA maybe.
Although I like having scan line control externally with the SLG and SLG Scart.

MrVestek

No I mean like for average GPUs without the need for an external card.

I don't see any technical reason why it can't be done but simply that it just hasn't been done yet...

Steve X2

MrVestek wrote: »

No I mean like for average GPUs without the need for an external card.

I don't see any technical reason why it can't be done but simply that it just hasn't been done yet...

Yeah, an Arcade VGA is just a very average internal card. It just has a custom firmware/driver.
But yes it certainly could be done on a driver level. Must have a google and see if anyone's done it or anything similar.

Myrddin

MrVestek wrote: »

No I mean like for average GPUs without the need for an external card.

I don't see any technical reason why it can't be done but simply that it just hasn't been done yet...

Would it invalidate the drivers digital signature maybe?

Steve X2

Myrddin wrote: »

Would it invalidate the drivers digital signature maybe?

Just a custom graphics driver. People make them all the time.
It'd be the firmware stuff that I'd worry about.
To be honest, I'd still prefer the external solution. Less things to wrong

Myrddin

Steve SI wrote: »

As promised earlier.

I've attached the prescale file and the relevant ini file code is below.
Now, this is for a 1080p display. If you have a different resolution you might need to change stuff(but probably not). I'm still fine tuning it, but this is where I am at the moment.

#
# DIRECT3D POST-PROCESSING OPTIONS
#
hlsl_enable               1
hlslpath                  hlsl
hlsl_ini_read             0
hlsl_ini_write            0
hlslini                   %g
hlsl_prescale_x           0
hlsl_prescale_y           0
hlsl_preset               -1
hlsl_write                
hlsl_snap_width           1920
hlsl_snap_height          1080
shadow_mask_alpha         0.1
shadow_mask_texture       aperture.png
shadow_mask_x_count       320
shadow_mask_y_count       240
shadow_mask_usize         0.09375
shadow_mask_vsize         0.109375
curvature                 0.0
pincushion                0.02
scanline_alpha            1.0
scanline_size             1.0
scanline_height           1.0
scanline_bright_scale     1.0
scanline_bright_offset    0.0
scanline_jitter           0.00
defocus                   0.1,0.1
converge_x                0.2,0.0,0.0
converge_y                0.0,0.0,0.0
radial_converge_x         0.2,0.0,0.0
radial_converge_y         0.0,0.0,0.0
red_ratio                 0.85,0.15,0.0
grn_ratio                 -0.05,1.05,0.0
blu_ratio                 -0.025,-0.025,1.05
saturation                1.0
offset                    -0.15,-0.16,-0.16
scale                     1.15,1.16,1.16
power                     1.1,0.95,0.8
floor                     0.0,0.0,0.0
phosphor_life             0.0,0.0,0.0

Make sure you don't have any other kind of filtering going on like scanlines or direct x filters. The "effect" should be blank.

#
# CORE SCREEN OPTIONS
#
brightness                1.0
contrast                  1.0
gamma                     1.0
pause_brightness          1.0
effect

Edit:-
Some samples, its clearer in a video but these will give you an idea.

All Good(code above, sharp arcade monitor).
http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/1581/clzs.png

Not so good(most code shared online, someone spilled Vaseline on arcade monitor).
http://img837.imageshack.us/img837/4324/a87r.png

Abomination(no filters :eek:, shoot me in the face now please).
http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/1951/be7m.png

Again, a video shows it better.

Good (nice amount of sharpness, but not too much)


Not as good (it still looks good, but its blurry as it's had a linear effect applied before an HLSL is applied)


I must sort out a video comparison as it really shows up there.

.

Having a look at this now:

1) There was no mame.ini file, so I generated one using "mame64 -cc" via a command line. It generated one in the main mame directory.
2) I copied the above code into the ini, ov erwriting the existing values that were there. Both sections were copied in (the main part & the blanked effect line part"
3) I edited the "hlsl snap width/height" to my own monitor resolution (1280x1024)
4) I dropped the prescale.fx file into the hlsl folder, overwriting the existing one (I took backups of the original prescale.fx file, & the original mame.ini file)
5) Zilch...no effect that I can see.

Any ideas?

Steve X2

Myrddin wrote: »

Having a look at this now:

1) There was no mame.ini file, so I generated one using "mame64 -cc" via a command line. It generated one in the main mame directory.
2) I copied the above code into the ini, ov erwriting the existing values that were there. Both sections were copied in (the main part & the blanked effect line part"
3) I edited the "hlsl snap width/height" to my own monitor resolution (1280x1024)
4) I dropped the prescale.fx file into the hlsl folder, overwriting the existing one (I took backups of the original prescale.fx file, & the original mame.ini file)
5) Zilch...no effect that I can see.

Any ideas?

Check if the real mame.ini is actually in a sub directory called "ini" in your mame folder.

edit:
dont worry about number 3 on your list. It's only for special screenshots i think.

Myrddin

Steve SI wrote: »

Check if the real mame.ini is actually in a sub directory called "ini" in your mame folder.

Nope, there's no ini subfolder in my mame directory (hidden files & folders enabled too)...

Steve X2

Myrddin wrote: »

Nope, there's no ini subfolder in my mame directory (hidden files & folders enabled too)...

create one and drop the mame.ini in there and see how she goes.
That ini folder is where your per game ini files will also go should you have any.

Myrddin

Steve SI wrote: »

create one and drop the mame.ini in there and see how she goes.
That ini folder is where your per game ini files will also go should you have any.

Tried, still nothing. I'm using Mame64, & it's a fresh install of 7sp1...I'm reading posts about making sure directx is updated, but dxdiag is telling me I'm on 11...

Steve X2

Myrddin wrote: »

Tried, still nothing. I'm using Mame64, & it's a fresh install of 7sp1...I'm reading posts about making sure directx is updated, but dxdiag is telling me I'm on 11...

Yeah you should be grand with that setup. If you had an older system without dx9/10 you might have issue.

Steve X2

Is it MAME 0.152 you have?

The Last Bandit

mame -cc

From the cmdline will create a new default mame.ini file

Myrddin

The Last Bandit wrote: »

mame -cc

From the cmdline will create a new default mame.ini file

Done that first, see above

The ini file is working, I can turn on/off the d3d filter with it...hlsl isn't though. I've no hlsl.ini in my hlsl folder I notice...

Steve X2

Myrddin wrote: »

Done that first, see above

The ini file is working, I can turn on/off the d3d filter with it...hlsl isn't though. I've no hlsl.ini in my hlsl folder I notice...

I dont think there is a hlsl.ini file.

Have you got an artwork folder with the aperture.png file in it?

Myrddin

Steve SI wrote: »

Have you got an artwork folder with the aperture.png file in it?

Yep, tis there

Myrddin

Myrddin wrote: »

Having a look at this now:

1) There was no mame.ini file, so I generated one using "mame64 -cc" via a command line. It generated one in the main mame directory.
2) I copied the above code into the ini, ov erwriting the existing values that were there. Both sections were copied in (the main part & the blanked effect line part"
3) I edited the "hlsl snap width/height" to my own monitor resolution (1280x1024)
4) I dropped the prescale.fx file into the hlsl folder, overwriting the existing one (I took backups of the original prescale.fx file, & the original mame.ini file)
5) Zilch...no effect that I can see.

Any ideas?

Some progress on this. Using Steve's settings (and changing the hlsl snap width/height to 1280x1024) I got it running by bypassing Hyperspin/Hyperlaunch...& running Mame64 via a command line.

Firstly, there's a huge performance hit. Even simple stuff like SF2CE is unplayable. The display looks great, but the gameplay & music are being absolutely murdered. I know these settings do come with an overhead, but surely not this much for my specs?? (Core2Duo 2.8Ghz, 4GB Ram)

Secondly, why would Hyperlaunch be messing about with these settings? I thought it was merely a launcher??

MrVestek

Myrddin wrote: »

Some progress on this. Using Steve's settings (and changing the hlsl snap width/height to 1280x1024) I got it running by bypassing Hyperspin/Hyperlaunch...& running Mame64 via a command line.

Firstly, there's a huge performance hit. Even simple stuff like SF2CE is unplayable. The display looks great, but the gameplay & music are being absolutely murdered. I know these settings do come with an overhead, but surely not this much for my specs?? (Core2Duo 2.8Ghz, 4GB Ram)

Secondly, why would Hyperlaunch be messing about with these settings? I thought it was merely a launcher??

Did you just change the program type in HyperHQ to launch it as a program instead of using Hyperlaunch? If so does that not affect your ability to quit out of the game and go straight back into Hyperlaunch?

Tried the settings on my own bartop last night and the filter wouldn't apply itself.

Myrddin

MrVestek wrote: »

Did you just change the program type in HyperHQ to launch it as a program instead of using Hyperlaunch? If so does that not affect your ability to quit out of the game and go straight back into Hyperlaunch?

Nope, should I? It's currently set to launch via HyperLaunch

Myrddin

If the performance hit is any indication, I'm starting to wonder if HLSL is worth the hassle on this particular setup. Looking at an SLG3000...will that just sit between my pc & screen & do the same thing?

MrVestek

Myrddin wrote: »

Nope, should I? It's currently set to launch via HyperLaunch

No I was just confused as to how you managed to get it working. Was it just by separately launching Mame to see if the changes took hold?

Myrddin

MrVestek wrote: »

No I was just confused as to how you managed to get it working. Was it just by separately launching Mame to see if the changes took hold?

Exactly yeah. I launched Mame64 via a cmd line, & not by Hyperlaunch (which I've been using to test roms etc). When launched independently of HL, the scanlines are working (image is too bright for my screen though, but that comes later)...but the performance hit is 50% or so.

Edit - Maybe this has something to do with Steve's config, as his pc is a lot more powerful. I might try the Vestek supplied ones later on & see do they make any difference...

MrVestek

Myrddin wrote: »

Exactly yeah. I launched Mame64 via a cmd line, & not by Hyperlaunch (which I've been using to test roms etc). When launched independently of HL, the scanlines are working (image is too bright for my screen though, but that comes later)...but the performance hit is 50% or so.

Edit - Maybe this has something to do with Steve's config, as his pc is a lot more powerful. I might try the Vestek supplied ones later on & see do they make any difference...

We have a few dedicated graphics cards lying around work here not being used.

If you need anything let me know. They won't be super powerful or anything but they'd probably take the load off of a built in graphics chip.

Myrddin

MrVestek wrote: »

We have a few dedicated graphics cards lying around work here not being used.

If you need anything let me know. They won't be super powerful or anything but they'd probably take the load off of a built in graphics chip.

I'm currently using a dedicated card, nothing powerful by todays standards but something I would have thought was up to the job? - Sapphire X1650 Pro, it's either 256MB or 512MB...maybe that's the bottleneck??

Myrddin

Found this online, hopefully it solves the lack of HLSL when launched from Hyper Launch/Hyper Spin

edit global module settings which is a tiny icon under the modules tab, and edit the HLSL dropdown for MAME

The Last Bandit

Your gfx card might be struggling alright, can you run mame in a smaller window and see if the performance improves ?

Myrddin

The Last Bandit wrote: »

Your gfx card might be struggling alright, can you run mame in a smaller window and see if the performance improves ?

Will try it later, cheers. I never paid much attention to the gfx card when using Mame as it's cpu driven...but I take it HLSL does out some stress on the card itself?

MrVestek

Myrddin wrote: »

Found this online, hopefully it solves the lack of HLSL when launched from Hyper Launch/Hyper Spin

Well spotted. I have a Radeon HD 3870 512mb in mine.

I can't imagine that the specs would be too dissimilar.

I'll try out Steve's settings when I get home and I'll let you know how I get on.

Just out of curiosity which games are you seeing slowdown in specifically?

Myrddin

MrVestek wrote: »

Well spotted. I have a Radeon HD 3870 512mb in mine.

I can't imagine that the specs would be too dissimilar.

I'll try out Steve's settings when I get home and I'll let you know how I get on.

Just out of curiosity which games are you seeing slowdown in specifically?

Cheers dude. I'm testing everything on SF2CE so I can see the differences. It runs perfectly obviously when HLSL isn't turned on, but when it's on, the hit is game breaking.

Steve X2

I don't run mame through Hyperlaunch. Hyperlaunch doesn't clean exit mame, so hiscores aren't saved as well as other issues. I just tick it to run as application. Works perfect.

Myrddin

2.2 Your performance is greatly enhanced by using graphics cards which contain more GPU memory and bandwidth. In cases for bare minimum usage (Geforce 6,7 Series, ATI Radeon R520/X1300–X1950, Intel GMA X3000 G965), you should expect that full screen HLSL shading effect will not be possible without severe frame-skipping. You can, however, run in a smaller window to allow many games to run at 100% with HLSL effects.

http://www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=255593

I guess that answers that. Ok so, it's either a new card or an SLG3000...

o1s1n

Well that's a pain! I didn't realize HLSL was GPU intensive.

If you only wanted HLSL for scanlines then an SLG3000 would be fine as a replacement as it does look really good.

However HLSL really is brilliant for all those other CRT emulation effects. Really would finish the project off if you could get it going.

Steve X2

I've seen a nice 4:3 LCD running mame with HLSL and I've seen the same setup with the SLG. Hands down the HLSL looked better because of th CRT emulation and scan lines.