Shannon Airport Thread [Mod Warning in First Post]

turbbo

jasper100 wrote: »

Maybe when the Cork motorway is open it will mean north Cork based people can get to Shannon much easier. The lack of congestion on motorways towards Shannon would be a huge advantage, people as far away as Portlaoise, Athlone etc. could be persuaded to go to Shannon instead of Dublin as its far less congested in the airport itself and the roads leading to it.


Even as far away as Newbridge and Kildare, to go down the M7 instead of the M50 gridlock and Dublin airport itself should encourage people west.

The M50 chaos will only ever get worse.

It definitely has a lot of potential by the looks of it.

Cookiemunster

jasper100 wrote: »

Maybe when the Cork motorway is open it will mean north Cork based people can get to Shannon much easier. The lack of congestion on motorways towards Shannon would be a huge advantage, people as far away as Portlaoise, Athlone etc. could be persuaded to go to Shannon instead of Dublin as its far less congested in the airport itself and the roads leading to it.


Even as far away as Newbridge and Kildare, to go down the M7 instead of the M50 gridlock and Dublin airport itself should encourage people west.

The M50 chaos will only ever get worse.

Or the North Cork people could use the same motorway and use their own airport in Cork. And people living less than 50Km from DUB aren't going to travel 180K to use SNN.

Look, I'd love to see SNN doing better, but unless the population density in the Midwest doubles overnight, then it's not going to suddenly get loads of new routes. It simple economics people, there aren't enough people in the Midwest to make most of these routes viable.

turbbo

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Or the North Cork people could use the same motorway and use their own airport in Cork. And people living less than 50Km from DUB aren't going to travel 180K to use SNN.

Look, I'd love to see SNN doing better, but unless the population density in the Midwest doubles overnight, then it's not going to suddenly get loads of new routes. It simple economics people, there aren't enough people in the Midwest to make most of these routes viable.

I'm not convinced that it's simple economics in terms of population if the figures you quoted earlier are anything to go by (2mill Dub - 500k Shannon) - but I do agree that it's economics that's preventing airlines from running more routes out of Shannon. Shannon obviously needs to become a lot more competitive.

Masala

turbbo wrote: »

I'm not convinced that it's simple economics in terms of population if the figures you quoted earlier are anything to go by (2mill Dub - 500k Shannon) - but I do agree that it's economics that's preventing airlines from running more routes out of Shannon. Shannon obviously needs to become a lot more competitive.

I wouldn't think that the decline in flights is down to SNN costs - in fact I would say that most airlines are on some sort of a 'start-up' incentive and so SNN costs are minimal. Flight are successful based on demand and hence fares achievable. If there is no demand...then fares will be low and airline lose money.

JCX BXC

turbbo wrote: »

I'm not convinced that it's simple economics in terms of population if the figures you quoted earlier are anything to go by (2mill Dub - 500k Shannon) - but I do agree that it's economics that's preventing airlines from running more routes out of Shannon. Shannon obviously needs to become a lot more competitive.

Not being smart, but this comes from what, your vast understanding of this market?

Dublin is the economic heart of Dublin, a primate city, the driving force in a political, business and tourist sense, with a higher GDP per capita than anywhere else in Ireland, naturally it will have a strong airport. Thanks to the airports large array of routes and frequencies, it Hoover's up passengers from all of Ireland's 4 proviences, strengthening it further, allowing it to offer more routes and frequencies, and this keeps going. Other forms of transport are also focused here, eg. Better bus services. This is known as the 'Hub'.

Dublin has 2 airlines headquartered there, and they have an interest in growing the market as much as they can. Had Dublin no national airline based or no airlines founded there, you could probably cut the passenger numbers it has at the moment in half. Aer Lingus offering connections flights inflates numbers even further.

Look abroad, let's take the Netherlands as an example. Over 17 million in population, only 2.5mil of which reside in Amsterdam's metro area. Yet look at Amsterdam Schiphol airport, 68.5million passengers in 2017, making it one of the largest airports in the world (11th) in terms of passenger numbers. All other airports in the Netherlands carry less than 10% of what Amsterdam carries.

There are so many other factors here I could discuss, but I think that's enough to get the message across. Airports are not 'simple economics', far from it. It's not as simple as saying 'advertise' or 'launch a route' as passengers don't suddenly flock to the airport when these things occur.

Sure, more could be done and I have some greviences in how the airport is run, but the management are not magicians.

JCX BXC

turbbo wrote: »

By those numbers it should have a quarter of the traffic - I'm guessing it doesn't have even a 20th of the traffic. I guess that's critical mass in action.

No no no, that's not how it works and you know that.

Even when passengers who wanted to fly to the US were forced through Shannon they didn't achieve those traffic numbers.

turbbo

JCX BXC wrote: »

No no no, that's not how it works and you know that.

Even when passengers who wanted to fly to the US were forced through Shannon they didn't achieve those traffic numbers.

LOL!

turbbo

JCX BXC wrote: »

No no no, that's not how it works and you know that.

Even when passengers who wanted to fly to the US were forced through Shannon they didn't achieve those traffic numbers.

BTW those numbers were population levels in airport regions not numbers using the airport - hahahaha! Do keep up.

JCX BXC

turbbo wrote: »

BTW those numbers were population levels in airport regions not numbers using the airport - hahahaha! Do keep up.

Ehm....you said the following-

"By those numbers it should have a quarter of the traffic"

I've explained something that's been explained a thousand times before, are you trying to get a rise or something?

jasper100

Cookiemunster wrote: »

And people living less than 50Km from DUB aren't going to travel 180K to use SNN.

Why not?

People from Limerick go to Dublin for flights. Yes I know that's partly because there are very few connections from Shannon, but if I was living in Kildare then I'd have to factor in the potential gridlock on the M50, parking costs and time to get from long term car parks to Dublin airport, queues getting throught security etc.

Its an extra 130km to Shannon, so an extra hour. By having parking closer to the terminal, having cheaper costs, shorter security times, shorter walking times to gate etc. people won't be long biting into that extra hour.

I am not saying it should happen overnight, but it is a bit of a chicken and egg situation.

turbbo

jasper100 wrote: »

Why not?

People from Limerick go to Dublin for flights. Yes I know that's partly because there are very few connections from Shannon, but if I was living in Kildare then I'd have to factor in the potential gridlock on the M50, parking costs and time to get from long term car parks to Dublin airport, queues getting throught security etc.

Its an extra 130km to Shannon, so an extra hour. By having parking closer to the terminal, having cheaper costs, shorter security times, shorter walking times to gate etc. people won't be long biting into that extra hour.

I am not saying it should happen overnight, but it is a bit of a chicken and egg situation.

Ah you're thinking outside the box - can't have that here on boards now.

Poxyshamrock

turbbo wrote: »

By those numbers it should have a quarter of the traffic - I'm guessing it doesn't have even a 20th of the traffic. I guess that's critical mass in action.

Shannon has an average of 12 flights in/out a day. Dublin has that in about 30 minutes.

JCX BXC

Poxyshamrock wrote: »

Shannon has an average of 12 flights in/out a day. Dublin has that in about 30 minutes.

Where in the name of God did you pull this figure out of? It's very inaccurate.

In September (I chose September as it's neither the peak nor the trough) there was 2,066 movements, working out at nearly 69 a day or 34.5 in/out.

Cosmo Kramer

JCX BXC wrote: »

Where in the name of God did you pull this figure out of? It's very inaccurate.

In September (I chose September as it's neither the peak nor the trough) there was 2,066 movements, working out at nearly 69 a day or 34.5 in/out.

Probably based on today's schedule which would have been for around 24 movements. Obviously a Tuesday in January is a below average day but it's not as crazy a number as you make it sound.

Shannon is a regional international airport covering a regional catchment of a few counties and a city in the Midwest. If anything it already receives more passengers than it should based on its transatlantic legacy and its suitability for accommodating diversions. However people need to accept that there is no scope for significant expansion of the facility or significant increase in the availability of routes. If the route you want is there, use it, if not you'll need to use another airport, most likely Dublin. That's just the way of it.

JCX BXC

Cosmo Kramer wrote: »

Probably based on today's schedule which would have been for around 24 movements. Obviously a Tuesday in January is a below average day but it's not as crazy a number as you make it sound.

Explain, I used fair figures.

jasper100

Cosmo Kramer wrote: »

Probably based on today's schedule which would have been for around 24 movements. Obviously a Tuesday in January is a below average day but it's not as crazy a number as you make it sound.

Shannon is a regional international airport covering a regional catchment of a few counties and a city in the Midwest. If anything it already receives more passengers than it should based on its transatlantic legacy and its suitability for accommodating diversions. However people need to accept that there is no scope for significant expansion of the facility or significant increase in the availability of routes. If the route you want is there, use it, if not you'll need to use another airport, most likely Dublin. That's just the way of it.

Shannon would cover Galway city in its catchment area as well at this stage, given the new motorway.

jasper100

JCX BXC wrote: »

Explain, I used fair figures.

You didnt, you included all sorts of stuff like corporate jets, ba, kuwait, freight.

We are obviously discussing regular scheduled flights where people actually leave the airport on arrival.

Cookiemunster

jasper100 wrote: »

Why not?

People from Limerick go to Dublin for flights. Yes I know that's partly because there are very few connections from Shannon, but if I was living in Kildare then I'd have to factor in the potential gridlock on the M50, parking costs and time to get from long term car parks to Dublin airport, queues getting throught security etc.

Its an extra 130km to Shannon, so an extra hour. By having parking closer to the terminal, having cheaper costs, shorter security times, shorter walking times to gate etc. people won't be long biting into that extra hour.

I am not saying it should happen overnight, but it is a bit of a chicken and egg situation.

The M50 isn't gridlocked 24/7 and parking is Shannon isn't free. And while the queues are short the facilities after security are non existent compared to DUB. Quite simply the vast majority of people living within 50km of DUB will not ever travel to SNN. And SNN will never have the route choices to attract them anyway.

nim1bdeh38l2cw

JCX BXC wrote: »

Where in the name of God did you pull this figure out of? It's very inaccurate.

In September (I chose September as it's neither the peak nor the trough) there was 2,066 movements, working out at nearly 69 a day or 34.5 in/out.

You can't count the US military flights, nor the flights that do laps such as the Lufthansa one that did about 50 today

Shn99

Sunny Gentle Koala wrote: »

You can't count the US military flights, nor the flights that do laps such as the Lufthansa one that did about 50 today

That would only equate to 1 movement, not 50..

Shn99

jasper100 wrote: »

You didnt, you included all sorts of stuff like corporate jets, ba, kuwait, freight.

We are obviously discussing regular scheduled flights where people actually leave the airport on arrival.

They all bring in money to the airport, dont they?

jasper100

Cookiemunster wrote: »

The M50 isn't gridlocked 24/7 and parking is Shannon isn't free. And while the queues are short the facilities after security are non existent compared to DUB. Quite simply the vast majority of people living within 50km of DUB will not ever travel to SNN. And SNN will never have the route choices to attract them anyway.

I never said parking was free, but competitive parking rates and shorter transit times from car parking space to airline gate will make shannon more attractive to people as far away as portlaoise, athlone etc.

I am not sure how important facilities after the gate are, I doubt anybody chooses an airport based on what extra shops they might have.

jasper100

Shn99 wrote: »

They all bring in money to the airport, dont they?

Of course they do but the discussion is about growing scheduled flights which the local population can avail of.

Shn99

jasper100 wrote: »

Of course they do but the discussion is about growing scheduled flights which the local population can avail of.

The more money they get, the more they can spent on marketing/Incentives ect

Cookiemunster

jasper100 wrote: »

I never said parking was free, but competitive parking rates and shorter transit times from car parking space to airline gate will make shannon more attractive to people as far away as portlaoise, athlone etc.

I am not sure how important facilities after the gate are, I doubt anybody chooses an airport based on what extra shops they might have.

SNN will never have the route options of Dublin, so the argument is moot. But the vast majority people will choose the cheapest flights from the nearest airport. The generally don't consider anything else.

RocketRaccoon

On a busy summer day, you will have between 25-30 commercial passenger flights. I can get the exact figures if someone wants to throw a date at me. Thursdays and Saturdays in July being the busiest days.

kilburn

The Shannon Group Marketing team need to find a niche and hit it hard maybe go for the family friendly strees free scenario.

On a side note the sensory room is fantastic and the plane collection so they have the right ideas as regards making it experiential

Shn99

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

On a busy summer day, you will have between 25-30 commercial passenger flights. I can get the exact figures if someone wants to throw a date at me. Thursdays and Saturdays in July being the busiest days.

Was actually on the website earlier, it’s all new..they don’t do the summer/winter schedules anymore. Shame tbh

JCX BXC

jasper100 wrote: »

Shannon would cover Galway city in its catchment area as well at this stage, given the new motorway.

The new motorway, cutting what, 4 minutes off the previous drive to Galway?

Poxyshamrock

jasper100 wrote: »

You didnt, you included all sorts of stuff like corporate jets, ba, kuwait, freight.

We are obviously discussing regular scheduled flights where people actually leave the airport on arrival.

This.