Shannon Airport Thread [Mod Warning in First Post]

Cookiemunster

mdmix wrote: »

The Boeing issue was clearly outside their control, but the airport were overly reliant on the deal with Kuwaiti. The way those flights ended made the airport management look like amateurs.

The lack of information or public engagement on the Norwegian and Air Canada flights issue has also made the airport poor. They need to show leadership and engage with the public. There is a loss availability of over 100,000 seats, it would be fairly tragic if the rest of the available seats are not fully utilized. Shannon need to step up their marketing of the North American network

You start by saying that the Max issue is outside their control and then complain that they haven't done enough about it. You can't have it both ways. It's the airlines job to deal with passengers on the cancelled flights, not the airports. And they can hardly tell the public when those flights will be back seeing as the airlines themselves can't answer that question.

Deagol

Never let the facts get in the way of an uninformed rant... :rolleyes:

mdmix

Cookiemunster wrote: »

You start by saying that the Max issue is outside their control and then complain that they haven't done enough about it. You can't have it both ways. It's the airlines job to deal with passengers on the cancelled flights, not the airports. And they can hardly tell the public when those flights will be back seeing as the airlines themselves can't answer that question.

The circumstances that led to the cancellations of flights with affected Boeing planes is outside their control. Their response to the situation is under their control, and so far they have offered little response. There is no notice/statement on the website and New York and Toronto are still listed as active destinations with Norwegian and air canada. The airport has taken a PR battering in recent years due to declining numbers and the Kuwaiti issue. Silence this issue will only harm the airport further

mdmix

Deagol wrote: »

Never let the facts get in the way of an uninformed rant... :rolleyes:

What facts are those?

Cookiemunster

mdmix wrote: »

The circumstances that led to the cancellations of flights with affected Boeing planes is outside their control. Their response to the situation is under their control, and so far they have offered little response. There is no notice/statement on the website and New York and Toronto are still listed as active destinations with Norwegian and air canada. The airport has taken a PR battering in recent years due to declining numbers and the Kuwaiti issue. Silence this issue will only harm the airport further

Norwegian haven't cancelled anything after May, so Providence and Stewart are still active destinations. Maybe the should take down the Toronto flight, but it's hardly the end of the world and Air Canada would have informed any affected passengers.

And the 'Kuwaiti issue' as you call it, affects zero passengers intending to use Shannon, so is not relevant to your rant.

Balf

Cookiemunster wrote: »

And the 'Kuwaiti issue' as you call it, affects zero passengers intending to use Shannon, so is not relevant to your rant.

You are right, but bear in mind that management oversold the significance of the Kuwait business at the time.

They didn't say "they're only here because of temporary US security concerns"

https://www.limerick.ie/discover/living/news/kuwait-airways-launches-new-transit-service-shannon-airport

turbbo

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Norwegian haven't cancelled anything after May, so Providence and Stewart are still active destinations.

Hmmm is that true??? Last I heard was I was flying from Dublin(to Stewart) in September. Has that changed?

Brennans Row

Balf wrote: »

You are right, but bear in mind that management oversold the significance of the Kuwait business at the time.

They didn't say "they're only here because of temporary US security concerns"

https://www.limerick.ie/discover/living/news/kuwait-airways-launches-new-transit-service-shannon-airport

The service will operate three times a week on Fridays, Sundays and Wednesdays on a Boeing 777-200 and will boost the airport’s passenger number.

They actually undersold its significance as it went from three to seven times a week.

It was a nice bit of business that they got and it was good while it lasted.

Brennans Row

Shannon Airport owner boosts profit to €21.5m (Irish Times)

Shannon Airport’s parent company more than doubled its pre-tax profit last year on the back of increasing passenger numbers and a better performance across its other commercial arms.

Shannon Group, which also controls Shannon Commercial Properties and Shannon Heritage, said profit before tax before exceptional items rose more than 125 per cent to €21.5 million.

However, the company booked a €5.8 million exceptional charge in respect of its voluntary severance scheme which was launched in November 2016. That reduced its profit before tax to €15.7 million. Nevertheless, turnover rose 8 per cent to €77.8 million while earnings increased by 37 per cent to €12.7 million.

And while the year was positive, group chief executive Matthew Thomas pointed to a more challenging year in 2019 with the negative impact of the global grounding of the Boeing 737 Max family of jets.

“The world-wide grounding of the 737 Max aircraft is having serious implications for passengers and the aviation industry alike. At Shannon it is impacting our well supported and successful Norwegian and Air Canada services. This will affect our passenger throughput and resultant business as we build towards what is otherwise a busy summer season,” said Mr Thomas, who received remuneration of €243,246 during the year.

Visitor numbers

Passenger numbers at the facility improved to 1.86 million during the year driven by strong performances from the UK and transatlantic markets.

Meanwhile, Shannon Heritage, an operator of tourist attractions in Clare, Limerick, Galway and Dublin saw visitor numbers across its estate rise to almost 925,000. A capital investment of €1 million was made in that division to upgrade attractions during the year.

Additionally, a €40 million investment in its commercial property arm completed during the year, delivering more than 650,000sq ft of new or upgraded office, manufacturing and warehouse facilities at the Shannon free zone. The occupancy rate in the free zone now stands at 94 per cent, more than double what it was in 2013.

New companies added during the year included Jaguar Land Rover, Edward Lifesciences and Aero-Zone.

“As a very significant business in the regional and national economy, we are committed to working in partnership with all our stakeholders to ensure a vibrant and sustainable future for Shannon Group and our region,” said Rose Hynes, Shannon Group chairwoman.

Shannon Group is a commercial semi-State company which employs more than 600 people.

Brennans Row

Planning Application: 19226

For the further completion of construction of Westpark Business Campus with the construction of Block 6000 ( immediately south of existing Block 7000), for a building of five storeys ( with an additional area for mechanical plant on the roof area ) on the western portion of the proposed building facing into the centre of the Campus with a further two basement storeys linking into a proposed, ancillary, multi-deck car park ( MDCP) to the east of the site. Block 6000 will have a total gross floor area of 10,800 sqms for office use. The office building includes ancillary services including, secure internal, cycle parking with staff toilets and shower facilities. The ESB sub station and mechanical plant areas are contained within the office building. The proposed development will use existing drainage services in place within the overall Campus and the existing road network. The development includes all other ancillary site development works as required to complete the block.

Westpark Business Campus

Work on two of the planned five new office blocks, probably Blocks 1000 + 2000?

See previous post 1512

highlydebased

turbbo wrote: »

Hmmm is that true??? Last I heard was I was flying from Dublin(to Stewart) in September. Has that changed?

I don't see anything on sale between SNN and SWF/PVD on their site at the moment anyway

mdmix

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Norwegian haven't cancelled anything after May, so Providence and Stewart are still active destinations. Maybe the should take down the Toronto flight, but it's hardly the end of the world and Air Canada would have informed any affected passengers.

And the 'Kuwaiti issue' as you call it, affects zero passengers intending to use Shannon, so is not relevant to your rant.

Why are you being so confrontational, can we please have a reasonable discussion?

Shannon’s numbers declined by 5% in 2017 and they used the transit business to hide the fact the airport was underperforming, the same may be true for 2018, as as far as I am aware they have not released their transit numbers for 2018. The transit deal was a nice earner and was a good deal for the airport but way the transit deal ended made management look clueless. Shannon is the only airport in Ireland recording declining passenger numbers ( all others reporting strong growth) and is now without a CEO. On top of all of this, they have the Boeing issue which they are virtually silent on. My point being, there are up to 100,000 people this year who would have used Shannon with Norwegian and air canada, the airport has not done any PR/ marketing to try ensure as many of these people use Shannon via another airline. The only way the Boeing issue could be any worse for Shannon, is if the numbers on the rest of the North American routes continue to stagnate.

tringle

What actually happened to the Kuwait transit, why did it stop. It was in every single day including christmss and needed a nice number of staff to deal with it. Certainly a blow to staffing hours.

Cosmo Kramer

mdmix wrote: »

Why are you being so confrontational, can we please have a reasonable discussion?

There hasn't been a reasonable discussion had about Shannon since the place opened.

Cookiemunster

tringle wrote: »

What actually happened to the Kuwait transit, why did it stop. It was in every single day including christmss and needed a nice number of staff to deal with it. Certainly a blow to staffing hours.

They got security clearance to fly directly into the US. They only stopped Westbound as they didn't need the security checks Eastbound. It was always temporary while the waited for security clearance from the US.

notharrypotter

Cosmo Kramer wrote: »

There hasn't been a reasonable discussion had about Shannon Knock since the place opened.

Fixed it for you.

turbbo

mdmix wrote: »

Why are you being so confrontational, can we please have a reasonable discussion?

Shannon’s numbers declined by 5% in 2017 and they used the transit business to hide the fact the airport was underperforming, the same may be true for 2018, as as far as I am aware they have not released their transit numbers for 2018. The transit deal was a nice earner and was a good deal for the airport but way the transit deal ended made management look clueless. Shannon is the only airport in Ireland recording declining passenger numbers ( all others reporting strong growth) and is now without a CEO. On top of all of this, they have the Boeing issue which they are virtually silent on. My point being, there are up to 100,000 people this year who would have used Shannon with Norwegian and air canada, the airport has not done any PR/ marketing to try ensure as many of these people use Shannon via another airline. The only way the Boeing issue could be any worse for Shannon, is if the numbers on the rest of the North American routes continue to stagnate.

It's clear that Shannon is losing out to Dublin. I don't know when I got a reasonable flight out of Shannon - either timing cost and mainly availability are the main issues when trying to use it as an airport. It's being ran into the ground by incompetent management.

lisasimpson

Unfortunately there not much the airport can do about timings. That's down to the airlines.. Recently flew to Edinburgh flight was fairly full on the Friday going out half empty coming back Sunday morning. The early flight back doesn't help. Liverpool service was killed due to the ridiculous timings again nothing the airport could do much about.
I do feel sorry for them in relation to the Toronto service this year. So many Irish over there it would be popular option for the whole of the Munster region

golfball37

Norwegian are not flying out of Shannon again until 2020 at the earliest as per official announcement.

I dont know why people are claiming otherwise?

RocketRaccoon

mdmix wrote: »

Why are you being so confrontational, can we please have a reasonable discussion?

Shannon’s numbers declined by 5% in 2017 and they used the transit business to hide the fact the airport was underperforming, the same may be true for 2018, as as far as I am aware they have not released their transit numbers for 2018. The transit deal was a nice earner and was a good deal for the airport but way the transit deal ended made management look clueless. Shannon is the only airport in Ireland recording declining passenger numbers ( all others reporting strong growth) and is now without a CEO. On top of all of this, they have the Boeing issue which they are virtually silent on. My point being, there are up to 100,000 people this year who would have used Shannon with Norwegian and air canada, the airport has not done any PR/ marketing to try ensure as many of these people use Shannon via another airline. The only way the Boeing issue could be any worse for Shannon, is if the numbers on the rest of the North American routes continue to stagnate.

How the Kuwaiti stopping make the Shannon management look clueless? I assume by making a statement like that you are fully aware of what happened prior to it stopping?

turbbo

golfball37 wrote: »

Norwegian are not flying out of Shannon again until 2020 at the earliest as per official announcement.

I dont know why people are claiming otherwise?

Yeah not sure why that news is being twisted either.
Why big up what is a total flop at this stage.

Cookiemunster

golfball37 wrote: »

Norwegian are not flying out of Shannon again until 2020 at the earliest as per official announcement.

I dont know why people are claiming otherwise?

Where was that official announcement? AC announced it alright, but I haven't seen anything definite from Norwegian past June.

Deagol

golfball37 wrote: »

Norwegian are not flying out of Shannon again until 2020 at the earliest as per official announcement.

I dont know why people are claiming otherwise?

Source please? I'm unaware of any official announcement that Norwegian are suspending flight from Shannon until 2020. Last I heard from actual source was that until MAX is recertified all passengers will be bussed to Dublin for 787 flight.

You can still book flights from Shannon (Albeit at punitive rates) last time I checked.

turbbo

Deagol wrote: »

Source please? I'm unaware of any official announcement that Norwegian are suspending flight from Shannon until 2020. Last I heard from actual source was that until MAX is recertified all passengers will be bussed to Dublin for 787 flight.

You can still book flights from Shannon (Albeit at punitive rates) last time I checked.

2020 is next year (how soon will we see the max getting re-certified)
- either way it's a $hit show for Shn , they will loose money on foot fall - not sure what arrangement they will have in place if nothing is flying from Shn as a replacement for the max. And who knows if Norwegian will be back in Shn at all after this fiasco - they have to be struggling. In the meantime profile of Shn is going down the tubes with it's lack of routes. It's getting to the stage where you wouldn't even give Shn a look in when booking a flight.

JCX BXC

turbbo wrote: »

2020 is next year (how soon will we see the max getting re-certified)
- either way it's a $hit show for Shn , they will loose money on foot fall - not sure what arrangement they will have in place if nothing is flying from Shn as a replacement for the max. And who knows if Norwegian will be back in Shn at all after this fiasco - they have to be struggling. In the meantime profile of Shn is going down the tubes with it's lack of routes. It's getting to the stage where you wouldn't even give Shn a look in when booking a flight.

It's SNN not 'Shn'

Your post would make one assume Shannon has completely and utterly fallen off a cliff, last year had the most passengers since 2009!

Yes, this year the route portfolio is a bit damaged this year, and I do express my disappointment at that, I'm not fully pleased at the situation, however saying Shannon's profile is "going down the tubes", simply as it lost 3 routes temporarily due to an aircraft grounding, is at best, absurd. It doesn't make any sense! The airport is still doing alot better than it was in 2012/2013.

turbbo

JCX BXC wrote: »

It's SNN not 'Shn'

I knew I had it wrong but was too lazy to google.

JCX BXC wrote: »

Your post would make one assume Shannon has completely and utterly fallen off a cliff, last year had the most passengers since 2009!

Point taken.

JCX BXC wrote: »

Yes, this year the route portfolio is a bit damaged this year, and I do express my disappointment at that, I'm not fully pleased at the situation, however saying Shannon's profile is "going down the tubes", simply as it lost 3 routes temporarily due to an aircraft grounding, is at best, absurd. It doesn't make any sense! The airport is still doing alot better than it was in 2012/2013.

Doing a lot better than 2012/2013 is not surprising considering we were in the height of a recession in those years and now only starting to pull out of it. I bet if you look at the stats for Dublin since those years it has increased a lot too.

Do you know why all those Norwegian flights are from Dublin now instead?
The flights that were booked in advance so I'm guessing they must have swapped in a bigger plane to fly solely from Dublin and pick up the slack from Shannon. Do Shannon get a kick back from Norwegian for allowing them to run it that way? From a lay persons perspective it just sucks that Shannon has so little to offer, but maybe it's impossible to improve I don't pretend to know the complexities of running that airport.

JCX BXC

turbbo wrote: »

Do you know why all those Norwegian flights are from Dublin now instead?
The flights that were booked in advance so I'm guessing they must have swapped in a bigger plane to fly solely from Dublin and pick up the slack from Shannon. Do Shannon get a kick back from Norwegian for allowing them to run it that way? From a lay persons perspective it just sucks that Shannon has so little to offer, but maybe it's impossible to improve I don't pretend to know the complexities of running that airport.

Yes, we all know why they're only from Dublin! Because the 738 MAX is grounded, and airlines can't pluck aircraft from just anywhere. They managed to spare an aircraft and amalgamate all the Irish flights onto the 787, which works, and lessens disruption compared to if they just cancelled the flights outright.

I am not the biggest fan of Norwegian, and thought they had questionable work practices and isn't particularly stable an an airline, however you can't really berate them for this situation, from what I can see they've made a good effort at trying to rectify and accommodate.

Shannon don't have a choice really, what do you expect the airport to do? Wag their fingers and say "bold airline"?

The airport has its market, it has holiday resorts, UK travel, US travel, some Eastern European and then Lufthansa to Frankfurt. It fulfills most of these markets quite well, but it's little use when you want to fly to mainland Europe! Would be great to see more routes to mainland Europe however they need to be sustainable and regular with reasonable timings, likely connections too. We've seen these routes fail time and time again, so it's always going to be a difficulty.

Cookiemunster

turbbo wrote: »

Do you know why all those Norwegian flights are from Dublin now instead?
The flights that were booked in advance so I'm guessing they must have swapped in a bigger plane to fly solely from Dublin and pick up the slack from Shannon. Do Shannon get a kick back from Norwegian for allowing them to run it that way? From a lay persons perspective it just sucks that Shannon has so little to offer, but maybe it's impossible to improve I don't pretend to know the complexities of running that airport.

All Norwegian passengers from Shannon AND Cork who don't take a refund from their flights are being flown from Dublin. And not all are being flown to their destination. The flights go either to Providence or Stewart and passengers get bused to the the airport they we due to fly to.

There is nothing that Shannon (or Cork) can do to change this. They aren't 'allowing' it to happen, it's being forced on them.

turbbo

Cookiemunster wrote: »

All Norwegian passengers from Shannon AND Cork who don't take a refund from their flights are being flown from Dublin. And not all are being flown to their destination. The flights go either to Providence or Stewart and passengers get bused to the the airport they we due to fly to.

There is nothing that Shannon (or Cork) can do to change this. They aren't 'allowing' it to happen, it's being forced on them.

Hang on is there no contract between the airport and the airline or is that some quaint idea?
They must have went with a bigger plane or more flights from Dublin to accommodate the pre-booked seats from Cork and Shannon?

Also there has to be some efficiency gain for Norwegian doing it that way instead of alternating flights out of the 3 airports. We will never know I guess. But to say it was totally forced I don't buy it. Otherwise airlines would shaft airports like Shannon out of existence or is that what is happening???

Cookiemunster

turbbo wrote: »

Hang on is there no contract between the airport and the airline or is that some quaint idea?
They must have went with a bigger plane or more flights from Dublin to accommodate the pre-booked seats from Cork and Shannon?

Also there has to be some efficiency gain for Norwegian doing it that way instead of alternating flights out of the 3 airports. We will never know I guess. But to say it was totally forced I don't buy it. Otherwise airlines would shaft airports like Shannon out of existence or is that what is happening???

You don't have to buy anything. But Norwegian decided to do it they way they're doing it. Shannon would have had no input. I doubt any contract would have covered the situation where every 737 MAX in the world would be grounded indefinitely and Norwegian don't have the spare 738 frames to fulfill the flights.