Shannon Airport Thread [Mod Warning in First Post]

Jamie2k9

The daa have no influence over Shannon advertising. Dublin have not and legally cannot advertise dismissing Shannon in any single way just like any company cannot negatively advertise against a competitor.

Then there is this rubbish in over the weekend

"Insulting and predatory': Dublin Airport slammed over Ryder Cup tweet

The tweet was 100% factual, Dublin will be the main gateway. It's pretty obvious even if SNN has a major upturn in routes between now and 2026.

https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/433985/insulting-and-predatory-dublin-airport-slammed-over-ryder-cup-tweet.html

road_high

SNN was built as a political stroke back in the 1940s and that sense of entitlement seems to still pervade today- the world has moved on, this is a free market now- it’s really up to them to get the airlines and passengers in. If they can’t do that after endless govt support over the years then what more can be done?

Brennans Row

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

Planned fuel and lav service stop I believe.

Industrial relation problems in Italy?

Brennans Row

road_high wrote: »

SNN was built as a political stroke back in the 1940s

Would you elaborate on that?

AnRothar

Brennans Row wrote: »

Would you elaborate on that?

He cant.

Phileas Frog

road_high wrote: »

SNN was built as a political stroke back in the 1940s

OK. So what happened in 1936 then? First commercial flight in 1939. But yes of course, a political stroke in the 40s. :rolleyes:

Balf

Phileas Frog wrote: »

OK. So what happened in 1936 then? First commercial flight in 1939. But yes of course, a political stroke in the 40s. :rolleyes:

I know this could become anorak heaven, but did Shannon have any commercial traffic before 1945?

https://www.shannonairport.ie/corporate/about/history/

1945 - The first scheduled flight from the United States landed in Shannon Airport and was the “Flagship London” an American Overseas Airlines (AOA) DC4. Shannon also began receiving scheduled aircraft from Trans World Airways (TWA) and Pan American Airways (Pan AM). 

https://www.historyireland.com/troubles-in-ni/ni-1920-present/the-flying-boats-of-foynes/

Two weeks later, on 9 July 1939, Yankee Clipper landed at Foynes to complete the first commercial passenger flight on the direct route between the USA and Europe.

As to why the airport was built, it was basically to facilitate the establishment of a flying boat airmail service between the US and Britain, which never actually came into operation. So I'd expect it was a product of the negotiations in the 1930s between the US and British Empire, in a context where Canada and Ireland were both British Dominions.

I'm not sure if the planned flying boat base in Shannon ever came to be - Foynes just closed, with no replacement for flying boats, which were pretty much irrelevant by then.

Phileas Frog

Balf wrote: »

I know this could become anorak heaven, but did Shannon have any commercial traffic before 1945?

Quite a lot, it was a transfer hub between Europe and North America. People going transatlantic were usually transferred to / from Foynes. However, there were some direct from Rineanna to Gander.

Here are some Cardinals from 1942. https://youtu.be/UlrsG1yFcLI

Balf

Phileas Frog wrote: »

Quite a lot, it was a transfer hub between Europe and North America. People going transatlantic were usually transferred to / from Foynes. However, there were some direct from Rineanna to Gander.

Here are some Cardinals from 1942. https://youtu.be/UlrsG1yFcLI

Ah, yeah, I think folk know that Foynes (as distinct from Shannon/Rineanna) was active during the war.

But the (gas) Movietone Newsreel, showing the runway in commercial use, is from 1946. (Yes, I have donned an anorak, despite the warm spell!)

http://www.aparchive.com/metadata/view/37d9117a525e434c9ce5ce8cdd007fcd

And, just answering my own question, there never were flying boats at Shannon (as distinct from Foynes).

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1950-11-09/49/

Work on the project for providing suitable anchorage for flying boats at Rineanna was commenced in April, 1939, and was substantially completed by December, 1941. Minor works continued for some time after that date and in September, 1945, when the transatlantic airlines changed over to land planes, further work on the project was discontinued.

The official records of expenditure from voted moneys do not enable precise figures of cost of individual works to be determined. From the information available, however, it is estimated that the cost of providing the anchorage at Rineanna amounted to about £96,900.

The embankments constructed in connection with the anchorage serve a useful purpose in protecting the airport lands from inundation from the River Shannon. At present it does not seem likely that the anchorage will be used for flying boats, but it is not possible to make any definite pronouncement regarding future developments in civil aviation.

Davys Fits

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

The tweet was 100% factual, Dublin will be the main gateway. It's pretty obvious even if SNN has a major upturn in routes between now and 2026.

https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/433985/insulting-and-predatory-dublin-airport-slammed-over-ryder-cup-tweet.html

So even if the Shannon itself was to host a major event the gateway would still be Dublin? With that mindset Shannon and every other airport is doomed. A no win situation.

Cookiemunster

Davys Fits wrote: »

So even if the Shannon itself was to host a major event the gateway would still be Dublin? With that mindset Shannon and every other airport is doomed. A no win situation.

Shannon even with 2006 routes and passenger numbers wouldn't be the main gate way because Dublin will still be much bigger and have more route options and connections from abroad.

There'll be plenty of private traffic and probably some charters, but the majority of the expected 250k visitors will come through Dublin.

That's not denigrating Shannon, it's just simple logistics.

mdmix

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Dublin is the key gateway. Like it or not most of the visitors will travel through Dublin. Shannon needs more routes, but outside of charters will never have the business to get the regular routes that will bring most of the expected 250k visitors.

True, I have no problem with the Dublin post, just highlighting the difference in marketing.

Cookiemunster wrote: »

And TBH a tweet send 7 years before the event, when flights can't be booked until early 2026 is going to make zero difference to where visitors enter the country.

It’s not one just one tweet, Shannon had 2 opportunities in the space of 2 weeks to market themselves to a global audience and they failed. Golfing tourism must be a big market for the airport, and it will not just be one week in 2027. Adare manor will get free global publicity from the moment the announcement was made and probably for the next 20 years. Dublin were quick to spot the opportunity and associate themselves with Adare, so whoever is running their social media has autonomy over their posts. Shannon took a day to respond, so either no confidence or no autonomy over posts, and eventually released a lackluster press release. The response of “looking forward to working with other agencies” I.e we will do what we are told when we are told what to do.

It’s early days tho, so hopefully the team at Shannon can put together a strategy around this

Balf

mdmix wrote: »

Dublin were quick to spot the opportunity and associate themselves with Adare, so whoever is running their social media has autonomy over their posts. Shannon took a day to respond, so either no confidence or no autonomy over posts, and eventually released a lackluster press release. The response of “looking forward to working with other agencies” I.e we will do what we are told when we are told what to do.

Just wondering (and I have no idea), sometimes bids for major tournaments like this have to go into the logistics and capacity of the bidder to deliver - not quite on the scale of an Olympic bid, but enough to demonstrate that people will be able to get to the venue and find accommodation, etc.

Is possible that Dublin Airport had advanced knowledge of the process, because of that? If the Adare bid included some statement to the effect that Dublin Airport offers a very high degree of connectivity to US and Europe, then it might give a context to why the tweet was made.

I'd just find it hard to see the tweet as an inspired action by an individual. But, as you say, maybe that's all it is.

mdmix

Balf wrote: »

Just wondering (and I have no idea), sometimes bids for major tournaments like this have to go into the logistics and capacity of the bidder to deliver - not quite on the scale of an Olympic bid, but enough to demonstrate that people will be able to get to the venue and find accommodation, etc.

Is possible that Dublin Airport had advanced knowledge of the process, because of that? If the Adare bid included some statement to the effect that Dublin Airport offers a very high degree of connectivity to US and Europe, then it might give a context to why the tweet was made.

I'd just find it hard to see the tweet as an inspired action by an individual. But, as you say, maybe that's all it is.

I can’t say, although I would find it hard to believe that Dublin airport would be consulted in advance and not Shannon. I think it’s probably a bit simpler than that. Dublin Airport marketing team are more used to dealing with events tourism and likely have a strategy for it.

On capacity, this is a opportunity for the region, including Foynes port. If they are serious about attracting cruise business this is there chance as they will be in a position to help provide hundreds, or even thousands of extra bed spaces close to the venue, assuming the road is built in time.

marzic

mdmix wrote: »

Balf wrote: »

Just wondering (and I have no idea), sometimes bids for major tournaments like this have to go into the logistics and capacity of the bidder to deliver - not quite on the scale of an Olympic bid, but enough to demonstrate that people will be able to get to the venue and find accommodation, etc.

Is possible that Dublin Airport had advanced knowledge of the process, because of that? If the Adare bid included some statement to the effect that Dublin Airport offers a very high degree of connectivity to US and Europe, then it might give a context to why the tweet was made.

I'd just find it hard to see the tweet as an inspired action by an individual. But, as you say, maybe that's all it is.

I can’t say, although I would find it hard to believe that Dublin airport would be consulted in advance and not Shannon. I think it’s probably a bit simpler than that. Dublin Airport marketing team are more used to dealing with events tourism and likely have a strategy for it.

On capacity, this is a opportunity for the region, including Foynes port. If they are serious about attracting cruise business this is there chance as they will be in a position to help provide hundreds, or even thousands of extra bed spaces close to the venue, assuming the road is built in time.

JP McManus own the Westair aviation company in Shannon! The roumer since he bought Adare has been that he would get the Ryder cup, cos he is so influential in golf circles. There's something wrong in Shannon group, they didn't even advertise at Irish open, the interm CEO said there wasn't space in the budget for marketing

mdmix

It’s encouraging to know they at least thought about it, however there is no business case unless the airport can start getting more people from cork, Kerry and Galway using the airport.

https://www.arabianbusiness.com/transport/425117-emirates-to-add-third-dublin-flight-if-airport-upgrades-terminal

“The option to add a new route to Shannon airport, on the west coast, remains a possibility, but Corneille said it would be in the long-term. While Emirates tends to focus on primary airports, the addition of a secondary airport was possible if there was sufficient demand and capacity.”

Stanford

This doesn't really add to the argument, any airline will consider serving an airport if there is "sufficient demand and capacity".

hobie14

UA22 .....787-10 .....DUB -EWR .... Diverting and on its way in to SNN now

Brennans Row

hobie14 wrote: »

UA22 .....787-10 .....DUB -EWR .... Diverting and on its way in to SNN now

Medical emergency sees Dublin-US flight divert to Shannon (RTE)

Brennans Row

The breakdown of the airport figures are finally released.

Comhrá

https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/news/437733/huge-concern-at-slide-in-passenger-numbers-at-shannon-airport.html#.XVK1pd-dpM8.twitter

FIANNA Fail TD Niall Collins has called for a new “strategic business plan” at Shannon Airport.

It comes after newly released passenger numbers show that Limerick’s local airport is attracting just 4.3% of the market share of Irish aviation travel.

Up to the end of June, the figures released to Mr Collins show that just 786,869 passengers had departed or arrived from the airport.

This compares to more than 15.5 million at Dublin and over 1.2 million in Cork Airport.

“"We have to be very concerned about the performance of Shannon Airport. Our market share has been nosediving. Clearly the separation from the Dublin Airport Authority hasn't materialised as was envisaged, and a strategic business plan needs to be developed as soon as possible,” he told the Limerick Leader.

Last year, Shannon carried 1.8m passengers, as against 31 million through Dublin and 2.3 million​ through Cork.

Although that was a slight rise from 2017, the figures for the normally busy summer season would indicate that Shannon Airport’s ridership will be down when the full 2019 figures are released ​early next year.

“​Clearly there has been a lack of leadership at the airport for a number of years and that needs to be addressed. The minister for transport and the government need to realise this. Shannon Airport boasting of increasing passenger numbers is merely a smokescreen to hide the declining market share. Market share is the true barometer,” Mr Collins said.

The Co Limerick TD believes that bosses at Shannon Airport should work to persuade the Dublin Airport Authority – which was last week accused of engaging in “predatory” marketing over its Ryder Cup tweets – to divert some of its transit routes south.

”Despite being a stand-alone entity, they need to work with the Dublin Airport Authority to try and create some business. Like the transit business, and the stopovers. There is a lot of this going through Dublin that could be diverted to Shannon,” he pointed out.

Shannon Airport has been contacted for comment.

Comhra

Comhra wrote: »

https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/news/437733/huge-concern-at-slide-in-passenger-numbers-at-shannon-airport.html#.XVK1pd-dpM8.twitter

I thought all the complaints were that the big bad DAA were holding them back ? Now that they are separated from the DAA the DAA aren't doing enough for them. How many times does Shannon wants its cake and eat it.

mdmix

That’s the opinion of a td, not the view of the airport.

That aside, although this guy is clueless and is talking sh*te, there is a lot of cross party support available from politicians from within the region. If airport management have an idea or a plan, they need to come out with it and use the support while it’s there.

Cookiemunster

Deleted User wrote: »

I thought all the complaints were that the big bad DAA were holding them back ? Now that they are separated from the DAA the DAA aren't doing enough for them. How many times does Shannon wants its cake and eat it.

Try reading the article properly and find anyone from other than a FF TD looking for votes in Limerick saying that. The article finishes Shannon Airport has been contacted for comment. So, you know, nobody form Shannon actually did say it.

He is correct about the poor management in Shannon though.

mdmix

Norwegian are stopping all transatlantic flights from Ireland

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/business/norwegian-ends-unsustainable-transatlantic-flights-from-ireland-943632.html

bad news as that is a loss of 80,000 seats. but it presents the airport with an opportunity to establish itself as a gateway between the west of Ireland and north america. hopefully something positive might yet come from this

JCX BXC

Not much of a surprise, I'd assumed they weren't coming back to Shannon after they cancelled their flights before any max issues.

Balf

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Try reading the article properly and find anyone from other than a FF TD looking for votes in Limerick saying that.

To be fair, similar comments have been made by various people. They stopped short of saying DAA should directly hand business over to Shannon. But that's because they are beautifully vague about what exactly they want to happen.

Do they want Dublin to turn new business away, so that the Shannon market share stops looking so dismal? Or what?

Irish Examiner editorial

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/views/ourview/dublin-airport-expansion-shannon-and-cork-worthy-of-funds-too-904022.html

It wouldn’t unduly inconvenience passengers to redirect some of the anticipated new business away from Dublin, and it shouldn’t hurt Dublin, which will always be the country’s number one international airport.

Local Authority official

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/shannon-region-may-lose-58m-due-to-grounding-of-boeing-737-max-1.3957368

The chief executive of Clare County Council, Pat Dowling, told the meeting that “the dominance of Dublin airport cannot be allowed to spell the death-knell of Shannon”.

UL and Limerick Chamber economists

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/business/shannon-airport-funding-plea-to-tackle-dominant-dublin-monolith-903974.html

Shannon Airport is suffering because of the dominant position of Dublin Airport, Limerick economists have said.

Shannon Group chief

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/business/shannon-ceo-hits-out-at-dublin-airport-dominance-814002.html

The chief executive of the Shannon Group has said that policy in Ireland is leading towards the country having only a single airport, in Dublin.

Brennans Row

Cookiemunster wrote: »

He is correct about the poor management in Shannon though.

Where exactly were they poor and what measures do you think they need to make that would make good management.

Shannon Group Statement

Responding to the announcement by Norwegian Air International that it is to cease all transatlantic operations into Ireland from Sept. 15th next, Mary Considine, Acting CEO of Shannon Group, said: “We are disappointed that Norwegian Air International will cease all transatlantic services into Irish airports, including Shannon, from Sept. 15th.

“We acknowledge that the grounding of the 737 MAX Jet had a major impact on this decision and Shannon was, among Irish airports, disproportionately affected, as it wiped 120,000 seats off our summer schedule through the suspension of its nine times weekly services from Shannon to Stewart and Providence. We thank Norwegian Air International and its staff for their commitment to Shannon over the past three years.

“The strong passenger numbers that used these services at Shannon, however, proved once again the vibrant market there is for transatlantic flights in and out of this region. This will support our case as we talk to other airlines about the proven potential for these routes.

“In the meantime, we will continue to work with and support our other transatlantic airline partners, Aer Lingus, United, Delta and American Airlines, to ensure the continued success of their services between Shannon and JFK and Newark airports for the New York market, as well as Boston and Philadelphia.”

Brennans Row

Shannon - Commercial Movements (IAA)

|Jan|Feb|Mar|Apr|May|Jun|Jul|Aug|Sept|Oct|Nov|Dec|Total
2015|1,253|1,026|1,277|1,454|1,725|2,169|2,058|1,728|1,780|1,645|1,283|1,312|18,710
2016|1,222|1,128|1,390|1,488|1,807|2,031|2,032|1,834|1,839|1,698|1,353|1,327|19,149
2017|1,291|1,215|1,429|1,446|1,776|1,975|1,949|1,885|1,778|1,796|1,440|1,316|19,296
2018|1,301|1,200|1,368|1,575|1,829|2,098|2,104|1,949|2,066|1,858|1,385|1,369|20,102
2019|1,246|1,087|1,320|1,444|1,836|1,951|1,976||||||
Change|-4.2%|-9.4%|-3.5%|-8.3%|+0.4%|-7.0%|-6.1%||||||

mdmix

Aer Lingus are having a transatlantic sale this autumn, including flights from Shannon.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/business/aer-lingus-announce-special-transatlantic-fares-following-norwegian-withdrawal-943858.html