Shannon Airport Thread [Mod Warning in First Post]

Cosmo Kramer

Well yes, further redundancies would of course need to follow as part of any closure. They can't be expected to close yet continue to pay the staff as they would normally do. Obviously a skeleton workforce would still be required. In that respect there are significant savings to be had to secure the longer term future of the airport.

johnjoeR

Cosmo Kramer wrote: »

Just the one flight on the boards at Shannon right now - due in shortly after 10am and that's it for the day in terms of passenger services it seems.

Is there an argument for just shutting the regional airports for the winter at this stage, at least in terms of commercial passenger operations - whatever few passengers are on that one flight could easily have accommodated on a Dublin flight I'm sure?

Awful times for the staff at the various airports, but would the longer term future of the facilities be better served by shutting them to reduce costs at this stage until the aviation industry has a chance to rebuild and go again post Covid?

Not sure it would make any difference TBH. Unlike Knock and to a lesser extent Cork, Shannon does not rely completely on terminal traffic. It has relatively vibrant bizjet operation, the troops obviously, a few cargo movement daily and traffic based on airside businesss that rely on the airport for their operation. Staff will still be needed unless they actually close the whole airport completely which is a non runner.

notharrypotter

Cosmo Kramer wrote: »

Just the one flight on the boards at Shannon right now - due in shortly after 10am and that's it for the day in terms of passenger services it seems.

Is there an argument for just shutting the regional airports for the winter at this stage, at least in terms of commercial passenger operations - whatever few passengers are on that one flight could easily have accommodated on a Dublin flight I'm sure?

Awful times for the staff at the various airports, but would the longer term future of the facilities be better served by shutting them to reduce costs at this stage until the aviation industry has a chance to rebuild and go again post Covid?

Cosmo you are a genius.

I think we should start by closing Knock first, what do you think?

tv221

Not anti Sinn Fein, but I certainly don't like this Gavin twat who regularly stands on the round about with the other highly paid state retired anti war protesters. https://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/58446


In other news. Another push is being made on the CHP plant. Which I guess would allow Shannon and the free zone some Green Cred. Construction of a Gasification and Combined Heat Power Plant for production of electricity and heating. Construction of a Battery Storage Facility (20MW). Construction of a Thermal Energy recovery and storage facility for district heating distribution. Construction of new on site 38kV substation. Creation of a new access road http://www.eplanning.ie/ClareCC/AppFileRefDetails/20705/0



Decision due on another new building. There should be some interesting news due on the letting of those just being finished. http://www.eplanning.ie/ClareCC/AppFileRefDetails/20575/0


An NCT centre allowing employees to get the necessary done during the day when at work. http://www.eplanning.ie/ClareCC/AppFileRefDetails/20700/0

Good to see Shannon Group continuing on with new projects

Brennans Row

Shannon - Commercial Movements (IAA)

|Jan|Feb|Mar|Apr|May|Jun|Jul|Aug|Sept|Oct|Nov|Dec|Total
2015|1,253|1,026|1,277|1,454|1,725|2,169|2,058|1,728|1,780|1,645|1,283|1,312|18,710
2016|1,222|1,128|1,390|1,488|1,807|2,031|2,032|1,834|1,839|1,698|1,353|1,327|19,149
2017|1,291|1,215|1,429|1,446|1,776|1,975|1,949|1,885|1,778|1,796|1,440|1,316|19,296
2018|1,301|1,200|1,368|1,575|1,829|2,098|2,104|1,949|2,066|1,858|1,385|1,369|20,102
2019|1,246|1,087|1,320|1,444|1,836|1,951|1,976|1,843|1,974|1,738|1,254|1,191|18,833
2020|1,221|1,179|691|261|238|322|850|725|557||||
Change|-2.0%|+8.5%|-47.7%|-81.9%|-87.0%|-83.5%|-67.2%|-60.7%|-71.4%||||

JamesBond2010

Cosmo Kramer wrote: »

Just the one flight on the boards at Shannon right now - due in shortly after 10am and that's it for the day in terms of passenger services it seems.

Is there an argument for just shutting the regional airports for the winter at this stage, at least in terms of commercial passenger operations - whatever few passengers are on that one flight could easily have accommodated on a Dublin flight I'm sure?

Awful times for the staff at the various airports, but would the longer term future of the facilities be better served by shutting them to reduce costs at this stage until the aviation industry has a chance to rebuild and go again post Covid?

:pac::pac::pac::pac: when did u start doing comedy ?? Are u going to pay for the peoples mortgages and bills are u?

RocketRaccoon

Cosmo Kramer wrote: »

Just the one flight on the boards at Shannon right now - due in shortly after 10am and that's it for the day in terms of passenger services it seems.

Is there an argument for just shutting the regional airports for the winter at this stage, at least in terms of commercial passenger operations - whatever few passengers are on that one flight could easily have accommodated on a Dublin flight I'm sure?

Awful times for the staff at the various airports, but would the longer term future of the facilities be better served by shutting them to reduce costs at this stage until the aviation industry has a chance to rebuild and go again post Covid?

And do exactly what with the staff?

Cosmo Kramer

notharrypotter wrote: »

Cosmo you are a genius.

I think we should start by closing Knock first, what do you think?

Not sure what you're getting at, or maybe think you are getting at, but IWAK was already closed for part of the year during the first lockdown. I think it is highly likely that it will close again in the coming weeks. It's simply not justifiable to keep it open at this point in time in my opinion, if it is to survive in the longer term.

JamesBond2010 wrote: »

:pac::pac::pac::pac: when did u start doing comedy ?? Are u going to pay for the peoples mortgages and bills are u?

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

And do exactly what with the staff?

Sorry lads, but it's time for Shannon to live in the real world, just like any other business. Shannon group are losing over a million a week, staff will be entitled to their redundancy payments just like any other business, or indeed any other airport as has already happened for many staff at Knock. I'm sure the staff that were let go there have "mortgages and bills to pay" too. Or do you believe a Shannon job somehow deserves more protection than a job at Knock?

Whatever limited cargo ops and troop stopover work is continuing at the airport can be transferred over to Dublin as a short to medium term measure, plenty of room for that there right now alongside their reduced passenger ops. Once everything starts to go back to normal in a year or two there will be a need for intense support from Government to get the regionals back to where they were, it'll probably take five years to be honest. But right now the reality is that, at a time when we need to invest in hospitals, nurses, vaccines and tests, we cannot have an unviable airport going cap in hand to the government (yet again) while staff are sitting about dealing with one passenger flight in a whole day.

notharrypotter

Ah Cosmo,


No suggestion that the jobs be moved to Scotland's this time?


Your lack of love for Shannon Airport is still showing.

johnjoeR

Cosmo Kramer wrote: »

Whatever limited cargo ops and troop stopover work is continuing at the airport can be transferred over to Dublin as a short to medium term measure, plenty of room for that there right now alongside their reduced passenger ops. Once everything starts to go back to normal in a year or two there will be a need for intense support from Government to get the regionals back to where they were, it'll probably take five years to be honest. But right now the reality is that, at a time when we need to invest in hospitals, nurses, vaccines and tests, we cannot have an unviable airport going cap in hand to the government (yet again) while staff are sitting about dealing with one passenger flight in a whole day.

Every airport in the world is losing money right now. All due respects to Knock but it doesn't have a cluster of airside companies like lufthansa tecknik, Eirtech and several others that rely on an open airport to maintain thousands of jobs. Nor does it have any other business bar terminal traffic.
Shannon needs to hold onto all its business just like any other.
Get real!

Cosmo Kramer

No preference either way, my view is simply that the millions that will need to be pumped into the regional airports will be better invested when a viable market for the airports to operate in returns in future.

Summer 2020 has been awful, but the coming winter is going to be an absolute disaster for the industry. The worst of it is that the odds are that summer 2021 will be no better. The recovery may not start until 2022 at the earliest. How can the government continue to fund barely operational airports for that length of time given the amount of debt they themselves are incurring to keep the country on its feet right now?

It's an awful time - but aviation is a volatile industry to work in and horrible decisions are going to need to be taken sooner or later. Shannon (or any of the other regional airports) cannot just have a free pass via the magic money tree to carry on as though nothing has changed. It's Shannon that needs to get real I'm afraid.

JamesBond2010

Cosmo Kramer wrote: »

No preference either way, my view is simply that the millions that will need to be pumped into the regional airports will be better invested when a viable market for the airports to operate in returns in future.

Summer 2020 has been awful, but the coming winter is going to be an absolute disaster for the industry. The worst of it is that the odds are that summer 2021 will be no better. The recovery may not start until 2022 at the earliest. How can the government continue to fund barely operational airports for that length of time given the amount of debt they themselves are incurring to keep the country on its feet right now?

It's an awful time - but aviation is a volatile industry to work in and horrible decisions are going to need to be taken sooner or later. Shannon (or any of the other regional airports) cannot just have a free pass via the magic money tree to carry on as though nothing has changed. It's Shannon that needs to get real I'm afraid.

Def a comedian :pac::pac::pac:

Avoation1091

Cosmo Kramer wrote: »

No preference either way, my view is simply that the millions that will need to be pumped into the regional airports will be better invested when a viable market for the airports to operate in returns in future.

Summer 2020 has been awful, but the coming winter is going to be an absolute disaster for the industry. The worst of it is that the odds are that summer 2021 will be no better. The recovery may not start until 2022 at the earliest. How can the government continue to fund barely operational airports for that length of time given the amount of debt they themselves are incurring to keep the country on its feet right now?

It's an awful time - but aviation is a volatile industry to work in and horrible decisions are going to need to be taken sooner or later. Shannon (or any of the other regional airports) cannot just have a free pass via the magic money tree to carry on as though nothing has changed. It's Shannon that needs to get real I'm afraid.

LOL. Comedian is right,

I would defo think recovery would start earlier than 2022. The Government cant be that mad. MM said travel restrictions until June 2021. I think hopefully at the end of March 2021 recovery can start.

johnjoeR

Cosmo Kramer wrote: »

No preference either way, my view is simply that the millions that will need to be pumped into the regional airports will be better invested when a viable market for the airports to operate in returns in future.

Summer 2020 has been awful, but the coming winter is going to be an absolute disaster for the industry. The worst of it is that the odds are that summer 2021 will be no better. The recovery may not start until 2022 at the earliest. How can the government continue to fund barely operational airports for that length of time given the amount of debt they themselves are incurring to keep the country on its feet right now?

It's an awful time - but aviation is a volatile industry to work in and horrible decisions are going to need to be taken sooner or later. Shannon (or any of the other regional airports) cannot just have a free pass via the magic money tree to carry on as though nothing has changed. It's Shannon that needs to get real I'm afraid.

The government will be helping Knock Airport through this too you know. And they not even owned by the state.

Cosmo Kramer

Avoation1091 wrote: »

LOL. Comedian is right,

I would defo think recovery would start earlier than 2022. The Government cant be that mad. MM said travel restrictions until June 2021. I think hopefully at the end of March 2021 recovery can start.

There's nothing funny about Covid 19 (especially if you work in the aviation sector).

And I don't think the Irish government gets to decide when the worldwide pandemic ends, funnily enough.

Lads by all means tell yourselves it's just a case of digging in for the winter before all goes back to normal if it helps you sleep at night. But there's a tough road ahead for the travel industry and it's going to get a hell of a lot worse before it gets any better. Burying your heads in the sand won't help in the long run.

Avoation1091

Cosmo Kramer wrote: »

There's nothing funny about Covid 19 (especially if you work in the aviation sector).

And I don't think the Irish government gets to decide when the worldwide pandemic ends, funnily enough.

Lads by all means tell yourselves it's just a case of digging in for the winter before all goes back to normal if it helps you sleep at night. But there's a tough road ahead for the travel industry and it's going to get a hell of a lot worse before it gets any better. Burying your heads in the sand won't help in the long run.

I defo didnt mean that to come across that COVID is funny. Its defo not. I feel really bad the Aviation sector. The Govts green list has been a joke and there are no words to describe how bad they have treated the sector. Totally understand from a health service point of view but there are safe ways to resume travel.

I just disagreed with ur comment. I think the Summer 2021 schedule will see the start of recovery. The airlines cant go through next Summer the way they did this summer. I do believe people will get moving next year and recovery will start. Aer Lingus seem to be confident that there schedule for next Summer will operate.

They couldnt allow recovery to start in 2022. Collapse comes to mind.....and SNN,ORK would be in even more trouble.

Masala

Anyone see any detail behind the €10m allocated today in the Budget to Shannon and Cork Airports?..

How is it being divvyed up??? Strange that only 2 airports singled out for this support...... the rest of the Regionals are in just as bad a state with aviation crippled with the Government yo-yo stance on travel.

AnRothar

Masala wrote: »

Anyone see any detail behind the €10m allocated today in the Budget to Shannon and Cork Airports?..

How is it being divvyed up??? Strange that only 2 airports singled out for this support...... the rest of the Regionals are in just as bad a state with aviation crippled with the Government yo-yo stance on travel.

The "rest" already get opex from dept of transport.

RocketRaccoon

And as already known by workers in the airport weeks ago, Ryanair have confirmed the closure of their base in Shannon.

JamesBond2010

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

And as already known by workers in the airport weeks ago, Ryanair have confined the closure of their base in Shannon.

no date confirmed yet though is there & hope there is till 8 flights per week ?

antseanoifig

Excuse my ignorance and at the risk of being chastised, why at this point are all options not on the table? Including selling the airport to the private sector. Surely this is the only path now to survival.

A 30-35 year concession to operate and manage the airport.

Cookiemunster

Ryanair to reduce to 8 flights a week to Stansted, Manchester and Wroclaw. https://www.limerickpost.ie/2020/10/15/shannon-group-statement-on-ryanair-closure-of-shannon-base-for-the-winter/

Cosmo Kramer

antseanoifig wrote: »

Excuse my ignorance and at the risk of being chastised, why at this point are all options not on the table? Including selling the airport to the private sector. Surely this is the only path now to survival.

A 30-35 year concession to operate and manage the airport.

Honest answers?

Shannon Airport almost certainly wouldn't be profitable or viable without direct or indirect state funding - none of the regional airports are. Certainly not without a major overhaul of workers' terms and conditions and a "resizing" of non-profitable operations at the airport (i.e. significant job losses).

There are a lot of workers at Shannon who see themselves as being in very comfortable "job for life" situations at the airport. You only have to look at some of the recent posts in this thread. They don't see the prospect of losing a job as even a remote possibility because they don't have to. They won't give that up for privatisation without a fight.

Ultimately, with a piece of infrastructure like an airport, it's a lot easier to just turn the whole operation into a political hot potato, whip up the fury of elected representatives and create a local media frenzy, make it a perennial election issue and as a result secure sufficient public funds to allow the status quo to continue.

That's how we've gotten to this point. Although the finances and arguments will be more difficult this time around (money for healthcare and ICUs versus money for a barely functioning airport anyone?) I expect the same strategy to be employed and the same outcome to be achieved.

It must be frustrating for the Ryanair base staff at Shannon though, now out of a job for the winter and most likely longer than that, seeing the airport employed staff being allowed to just continue as is while they are left out in the cold.

JamesBond2010

Cosmo Kramer wrote: »

Honest answers?

Shannon Airport almost certainly wouldn't be profitable or viable without direct or indirect state funding - none of the regional airports are. Certainly not without a major overhaul of workers' terms and conditions and a "resizing" of non-profitable operations at the airport (i.e. significant job losses).

There are a lot of workers at Shannon who see themselves as being in very comfortable "job for life" situations at the airport. You only have to look at some of the recent posts in this thread. They don't see the prospect of losing a job as even a remote possibility because they don't have to. They won't give that up for privatisation without a fight.

Ultimately, with a piece of infrastructure like an airport, it's a lot easier to just turn the whole operation into a political hot potato, whip up the fury of elected representatives and create a local media frenzy, make it a perennial election issue and as a result secure sufficient public funds to allow the status quo to continue.

That's how we've gotten to this point. Although the finances and arguments will be more difficult this time around (money for healthcare and ICUs versus money for a barely functioning airport anyone?) I expect the same strategy to be employed and the same outcome to be achieved.

It must be frustrating for the Ryanair base staff at Shannon though, now out of a job for the winter and most likely longer than that, seeing the airport employed staff being allowed to just continue as is while they are left out in the cold.

Your hatred for the Airport still shows

Clareman

Folks remember to attack the post not the poster, any more snipes at users will result in cards/bans.

MarkR

It may not be viable as a private enterprise. Like bus routes, the public needs them, even if they aren't profitable. Saying that, modern airport, industrial estate, loads of empty buildings. You'd think there would be some form of opportunity. We could be world leaders in PPE or something!

Brennans Row

DTTAS Quarterly Aviation Statistics

MarkR

Is it all PPE and ventilators?

JamesBond2010

MarkR wrote: »

Is it all PPE and ventilators?

no its ordinary cargo as well as livestock

JCX BXC

Ryanair ending all flights on 13th of November, resuming 13th December.