Shannon Airport Thread [Mod Warning in First Post]

RocketRaccoon

AnRothar wrote: »

Looks like an element of comparing apples and oranges.
Airports generate revenue from a number of different sources.
Landing fees.
Ground services (fueling etc)
Parking (air bridge vs hard stand).
Car parking.
Concessions inside the terminal (food, shops etc). Airports rely a lot more on these than people realise.

To use 2 examples.
A Ryanair flight on a short hop from its base will not usually upload fuel nor pay for an airbridge.
Typical Ryanair short haul passengers point to point tend not to spend a lot inside the terminal.
Collected/dropped outside where the car is inside the car park for 15 minutes or less (or whatever equivalent free time).
Bugger all revenue to the airport from this flight.

Or
A Ryanair flight to the sun.
This needs fuel.
Passengers will tend to be a lot of families so prime candidates to have parked a car and buy stuff inside.
More useful in terms of revenue.

I know all of this. I'm fully aware of the costs involved from the time the aircraft touches down and takes off again.

AnRothar

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

I know all of this. I'm fully aware of the costs involved from the time the aircraft touches down and takes off again.

I am aware that you are aware:D.
Used your post to anchor the response to the 2 previous posters. Lazy posting so I apologise.

Masala

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

I know all of this. I'm fully aware of the costs involved from the time the aircraft touches down and takes off again.

So... in your opinion... what is more profitable to Shannon Airport: A flight to LHR with AieLingus 60% full or a flight to Alicante with Ryanair 100% full ?

I’m talking Revenue here... Leave out fuel for the craic as that might muddy the waters.

ISOP

Your typical tightarse on a ryanair flight wouldn't spend Christmas ffs!, the type that bring their own sandwiches and drinks, what serious business person flies to Stanstead or Gatwick? Only locals from the midwest use those routes for ease. I know because I am one of those people. But I always use the 7:30 to Heathrow on Monday morning going back to work, super fast transport straight into central London. The economic impact of losing that connectivity to a proper airport like heathrow is catastrophic for the midwest.

RocketRaccoon

Masala wrote: »

So... in your opinion... what is more profitable to Shannon Airport: A flight to LHR with AieLingus 60% full or a flight to Alicante with Ryanair 100% full ?

I’m talking Revenue here... Leave out fuel for the craic as that might muddy the waters.

I didn't say a single Ryanair flight is more profitable than an EI LHR.

This discussion has come from me saying the US military flights are worth more to Shannon than EI.

RocketRaccoon

ISOP wrote: »

Your typical tightarse on a ryanair flight wouldn't spend Christmas ffs!, the type that bring their own sandwiches and drinks, what serious business person flies to Stanstead or Gatwick? Only locals from the midwest use those routes for ease. I know because I am one of those people. But I always use the 7:30 to Heathrow on Monday morning going back to work, super fast transport straight into central London. The economic impact of losing that connectivity to a proper airport like heathrow is catastrophic for the midwest.

See, more nonsense with no basis in reality.

Masala

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

I didn't say a single Ryanair flight is more profitable than an EI LHR.

This discussion has come from me saying the US military flights are worth more to Shannon than EI.

If I was In Shannon Management .... I wouldn’t be planning my survival on boosting US Military traffic. It’s a political football that could disappear overnight. Nice business if you can get it..,!!

I reckon if O’Gorman gets into Dept Transport he would go after closing down this business- he obsessed about protecting the rights of foreign migrants over locals. Or Wallace Or Daly even worse

AnRothar

Masala wrote: »

So... in your opinion... what is more profitable to Shannon Airport: A flight to LHR with AieLingus 60% full or a flight to Alicante with Ryanair 100% full ?

I’m talking Revenue here... Leave out fuel for the craic as that might muddy the waters.

If you are talking revenue you cannot leave out the fuel.
Remember that an airport makes money by selling stuff.

Both based aircraft?
So both upload fuel.
Aer Lingus say 90 minutes flying.
Ryanair say 120 minutes flying.
Ryanair takes more fuel.

Aer Lingus A320 150 passengers full.
Ryanair 180 passengers full.
60% of 150 is 90
100% of 180 is 180


Aer Lingus use air bridge?
Ryanair will not use an air bridge.

Not sure here.

Most modern travelers , especially in shorter routes are tight wads.
It doesn't matter who they are flying with.

While a lot of the Aer Lingus passengers will spend in the cafe and shops there are more Ryanair passengers so on average as a group I suspect they spend more.
The Alicante flight will have more holiday makers so probably more cars actually parked up.

On balance I suspect for the example you have used that Ryanair win.


Moving off topic big picture.
As a REGION the mid West needs access to a hub.

AnRothar

Masala wrote: »

If I was In Shannon Management .... I wouldn’t be planning my survival on boosting US Military traffic. It’s a political football that could disappear overnight. Nice business if you can get it..,!!

I reckon if O’Gorman gets into Dept Transport he would go after closing down this business- he obsessed about protecting the rights of foreign migrants over locals. Or Wallace Or Daly even worse

Wallace and Daly are on the gravey train in Europe, so forget them.

I concur with the rest.

RocketRaccoon

Masala wrote: »

If I was In Shannon Management .... I wouldn’t be planning my survival on boosting US Military traffic. It’s a political football that could disappear overnight. Nice business if you can get it..,!!

I reckon if O’Gorman gets into Dept Transport he would go after closing down this business- he obsessed about protecting the rights of foreign migrants over locals. Or Wallace Or Daly even worse

I agree it might be a dangerous game to play but as it stands, those flights are paying the bills and keeping the lights on. If the US military decided tomorrow to use Dublin or Belfast(more than they already do) then that would be the end of Shannon Airport.

Just imagine how much 200+ passengers on a troop carrier 2-3 times a day spend in duty free, on food, on alcohol. That would be a monumental loss without even mentioning all the aircraft fees involved.

Masala

AnRothar wrote: »

If you are talking revenue you cannot leave out the fuel.
Remember that an airport makes money by selling stuff.

Both based aircraft?
So both upload fuel.
Aer Lingus say 90 minutes flying.
Ryanair say 120 minutes flying.
Ryanair takes more fuel.

Aer Lingus A320 150 passengers full.
Ryanair 180 passengers full.
60% of 150 is 90
100% of 180 is 180


Aer Lingus use air bridge?
Ryanair will not use an air bridge.

Not sure here.

Most modern travelers , especially in shorter routes are tight wads.
It doesn't matter who they are flying with.

While a lot of the Aer Lingus passengers will spend in the cafe and shops there are more Ryanair passengers so on average as a group I suspect they spend more.
The Alicante flight will have more holiday makers so probably more cars actually parked up.

On balance I suspect for the example you have used that Ryanair win.


Moving off topic big picture.
As a REGION the mid West needs access to a hub.

jeez..... am shocked at that to be honest.

finbarrk

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

Meh, I've had this discussion here before with a poster(I can't remember their username). I was told the average Aer Lingus passenger spends more in the airport than a Ryanair one so it's more important to the airport. Zero evidence of that of course but that didn't stop they hyperbole being pushed by that particular poster.

I've worked in the airport since 2006 up until covid struck last year, I've seen everything over the years. Trust me when I say that a few routes to Heathrow aren't what have kept the doors open in Shannon.

You don’t seem to be getting the point. I mean the route is so important for the region in general. You seem to be more concerned about what individual passengers spend in the bar/ restaurant, etc. That’s not the big issue.

RocketRaccoon

finbarrk wrote: »

You don’t seem to be getting the point. I mean the route is so important for the region in general. You seem to be more concerned about what individual passengers spend in the bar/ restaurant, etc. That’s not the big issue.

Why is it so important for the region? For business and connections, all the multinationals in Galway seem to manage just fine.

ctlsleh

marno21 wrote: »

It's not just the airport though. The LHR connectivity is pivotal for companies and people in the area for connections. Same as LHR/AMS out of Cork. It's all connections and the odd London business trip.

this is exactly the point, it’s all about regional connectivity for the people and businesses of the region, the airport is there to serve the region, not the other way around. Without the connectivity, people that require European or InTL travel will leave and inward FDI will be limited and remain focussed in Dublin and Cork.

ctlsleh

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

Why is it so important for the region? For business and connections, all the multinationals in Galway seem to manage just fine.

Galway multinationals also rely on shannon. To your point, Galway have done an excellent job to attract investment and local Mid West/Shannon development group should be ashamed of their performance considering their dominant position for inward investment back in the 90s and the large number of INTL businesses that were in the region at that time.
They had a very strong position and it would appear they became complacent and got outsold by Dublin, Cork and Galway.....shame on them

Deagol

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

Why is it so important for the region? For business and connections, all the multinationals in Galway seem to manage just fine.

With respect, I'll try one last time to explain why I believe you are totally wrong:

I spend 15-20k a year on flights - how many RA passengers do this? Mostly SNN-LHR-LHR-XXX. Large numbers of other business travellers do the same. I meet the same people regularly on the flights. EI pay for fuel, handling, facilities etc etc in Shannon to provide me with a service. If they are gone then all that money goes too. Plus I'm sure all / most of the crew must have spent money in the terminal too?

If EI pull out of Shannon, I will transfer all my business to Dublin as undoubtedly will large numbers of other business flyers. The ancillary loses to Shannon include such things as annual parking passes - these cost €860 pa. I actually don't have a pass as my company prefers to buy as needed - I spend up to €1000 on parking annually. I spend ~€20 everytime I go through in the shops, that's another few 300-400 a year. With no EI flights, the lounge will go - that's another 2-3 jobs I'd guess gone. EI won't be paying rent to Shannon for the lounge...

I'm just one person, multiply it out by the hundreds of other regular business flyers and Shannon will be down many hundreds of thousands.

Don't forget the large numbers of US tourists who spent in the Duty free.

Companies base FDI into Shannon around the airport and connectivity, with that gone there will be changes. I already have heard that one place is planning on relocating it's offices to Dublin with job losses to be announced later this year or early next year.

This is the reality, not that Ryanair are the saviours of Shannon and SNN doesn't need EI .

And facts are only facts if you can provide evidence of them, telling me you work in an unknown job in the airport and 'know' the costs is simply unsubstantiated gossip. The people I talk to have access to actual figures that are confidential - they can't divulge them to me for obvious reasons, but they do say that EI is / was enormously important to Shannon and them pulling out totally is massively damaging to the airport. These people are CEO's, board members, senior managers in the air industries- I trust what they tell me more than some random person on the internet who says he works in the airport in some unidentifiable role. Since you seem to be such a RA fanboy though, I'm guessing you must work for them in some capacity!

I'm not against RA btw, but we need an airport that caters both for the occasional holiday maker AND the serious business traveller. RA on their own are simply not viable for the future of Shannon.

ctlsleh

Deagol wrote: »

With respect, I'll try one last time to explain why I believe you are totally wrong:

I spend 15-20k a year on flights - how many RA passengers do this? Mostly SNN-LHR-LHR-XXX. Large numbers of other business travellers do the same. I meet the same people regularly on the flights. EI pay for fuel, handling, facilities etc etc in Shannon to provide me with a service. If they are gone then all that money goes too. Plus I'm sure all / most of the crew must have spent money in the terminal too?

If EI pull out of Shannon, I will transfer all my business to Dublin as undoubtedly will large numbers of other business flyers. The ancillary loses to Shannon include such things as annual parking passes - these cost €860 pa. I actually don't have a pass as my company prefers to buy as needed - I spend up to €1000 on parking annually. I spend ~€20 everytime I go through in the shops, that's another few 300-400 a year. With no EI flights, the lounge will go - that's another 2-3 jobs I'd guess gone. EI won't be paying rent to Shannon for the lounge...

I'm just one person, multiply it out by the hundreds of other regular business flyers and Shannon will be down many hundreds of thousands.

Don't forget the large numbers of US tourists who spent in the Duty free.

Companies base FDI into Shannon around the airport and connectivity, with that gone there will be changes. I already have heard that one place is planning on relocating it's offices to Dublin with job losses to be announced later this year or early next year.

This is the reality, not that Ryanair are the saviours of Shannon and SNN doesn't need EI .

And facts are only facts if you can provide evidence of them, telling me you work in an unknown job in the airport and 'know' the costs is simply unsubstantiated gossip. The people I talk to have access to actual figures that are confidential - they can't divulge them to me for obvious reasons, but they do say that EI is / was enormously important to Shannon and them pulling out totally is massively damaging to the airport. These people are CEO's, board members, senior managers in the air industries- I trust what they tell me more than some random person on the internet who says he works in the airport in some unidentifiable role. Since you seem to be such a RA fanboy though, I'm guessing you must work for them in some capacity!

I'm not against RA btw, but we need an airport that caters both for the occasional holiday maker AND the serious business traveller. RA on their own are simply not viable for the future of Shannon.

This is exactly the point I was making earlier!
People and businesses wil leave the region to be closer to an airport that offers better connectivity, this is just a practical reality

revelman

Sorry, if this is a stupid question. But why is it possible to book AL flights from Shannon to NY in December? I thought that the route would have been closed by then?

mdmix

is there any info on what flights are available this summer from Shannon? I don't see anything anywhere on the Shannon website.

Brennans Row

See link: Summer Routes at a Glance

AnRothar

revelman wrote: »

Sorry, if this is a stupid question. But why is it possible to book AL flights from Shannon to NY in December? I thought that the route would have been closed by then?

They are closing the base and making based staff redundant.
You can probably book flights still as "services" to be retained, while decided by Aer Lingus management, probably haven't been published yet to avoid further adverse publicity.

Also by not publishing their plans people like you will be hesitant to commit and book a flight from Shannon.

Then they can justifiably claim there is no demand and use this to pull all services.

To quote the most cunning and devious of them all "smoke and daggers"

mdmix

Brennans Row wrote: »

See link: Summer Routes at a Glance

Thanks, I did see that, but it hasn't been updated since last year - still says summer 2020. Whoevers job it is to update the website needs a good kick in the hole.

JamesBond2010

AnRothar wrote: »

They are closing the base and making based staff redundant.
You can probably book flights still as "services" to be retained, while decided by Aer Lingus management, probably haven't been published yet to avoid further adverse publicity.

Also by not publishing their plans people like you will be hesitant to commit and book a flight from Shannon.

Then they can justifiably claim there is no demand and use this to pull all services.

To quote the most cunning and devious of them all "smoke and daggers"

Do what they sometimes did as well,cancel the Shannon one close to thr flight time & offer u the Dublin one in return.

JamesBond2010

mdmix wrote: »

Thanks, I did see that, but it hasn't been updated since last year - still says summer 2020. Whoevers job it is to update the website needs a good kick in the hole.

The whole of upstairs needs a good kick in the hole :D:D

Brennans Row

mdmix wrote: »

Thanks, I did see that, but it hasn't been updated since last year - still says summer 2020.

I should wear my reading glasses more often.

Ryanair are to resume operations at Shannon Airport next month (Clare Echo).

22.05.2021

The Clare Echo has learned that Ryanair will reopen its base at Shannon Airport on June 1st with seven routes making it the first on the West of Ireland to reopen.

Services to London Stansted (4 per week), London Gatwick (2), Barcelona-Reus (2), Warsaw-Modlin (2), Wroclaw (2), Krakow (2) and Kaunas (2) are all planned to resume from next month.

Last month, Ryanair announced that Shannon Airport’s first service to Corfu was to take flight in July of this year. The twice weekly service will run from July 2nd until the end of October.

Brennans Row

Coveney meets US Secretary of State at Shannon (Clare Herald)

Foreign Affairs Minister Simon Coveney held separate meetings at Shannon Airport yesterday with US Secretary of State Antony Blinken and US National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan.

The pair discussed several issues including the weekend diversion of a Ryanair aircraft in Belarus and Ireland’s role on the UN Security Council.

In these dire times, such stopovers by U.S. government aircraft at Shannon can only be a reassuring sign of approval for the airport as an American outpost, especially their US Customs & Border Pre-Clearance facility.

Brennans Row

Ireland’s First Passenger and Cargo Vertiport (Future Mobility Ireland)

In May 2021, a partnership between FMCI, Skyports, Avtrain and Shannon Group as been established to work towards launching an operational vertiport at Shannon’s FMCI campus in 2022. This partnership will encourage R&D activities and investment in Ireland’s Advanced Aerial Mobility (AAM) industry. This will lead to the establishment of Ireland’s first drone air taxi service and routine beyond visual line of sight (BVLOS) drone operations.

The roadmap of this consortium includes a major milestone for launching beyond visual line of sight (BVLOS) proof-of-concept operations in September 2021 in Shannon. These operations will validate state-of-the-art technologies of unmanned aerial vehicles (UAV) and showcase the benefits in Ireland and beyond.

UAV Testing in Shannon

• Unmanned Aerial Vehicle (UAV) market size is projected to reach $133.5B by 2026
• Beyond Visual Line of Sight (BVLOS) segment will be the largest part of this market
• Test beds will be required to certify these Vehicles
• FMCI infrastructure will enable testing of both road and air
• Significant opportunity to demonstrate and prove the safety and management of both manned and unmanned airspace
• Shannon airport and the surrounding estuary provide unique capabilities for testing

Dedicated Vertiport

FMCI and supporting partners aim to:

• Create Ireland’s first dedicated UAV testing and Vertiport facility
• Facility will be used to test and certify airworthiness for these aircraft initially
• Vertiport could be then used for regional operations as the service and UAVs become certified
• Shannon has the potential to be the leading center for system development, testing, training and certification
• Potential to further grow Future Mobility ecosystem in Shannon

Brennans Row

Lufthansa wants to cut back on technical services: Düsseldorf also affected (Die Zeit)

Düsseldorf (dpa/lnw) - The trade union Verdi has warned of a cutback in aircraft maintenance at Lufthansa Technik. The wholly-owned Lufthansa subsidiary, based in Hamburg, confirmed on Thursday that it no longer wants to continue the locations in Düsseldorf, Bremen, Leipzig and Hanover, as well as partial operations in Hamburg and Frankfurt. Negotiations on a reconciliation of interests and a social plan have been started with the employee representatives.

Verdi secretary Frank Hartstein explained that 780 of the 1,350 jobs in the maintenance sector were directly threatened. At Düsseldorf airport, 130 jobs are at risk. There, the Lufthansa subsidiary Eurowings had also awarded its maintenance contract to a company outside the group. "While the Lufthansa Group is receiving billions in state support during the pandemic to save the company and secure jobs, there are now to be plant closures and job cuts on a large scale at the subsidiary," Hartstein criticised.

Dark clouds brewing in Germany . . .

Stanford

Brennans Row wrote: »

Dark clouds brewing in Germany . . .

Hopefully the Shannon LTTS plant won't be affected

opinionated3

Brennans Row wrote: »

Dark clouds brewing in Germany . . .

Tbh that would appear to affect more of their airside on wing maintenance. Ltsl and ltts deal with scheduled airframe and engine parts overhaul. Plus, LHT have just opened another subsidiary in Dublin, dealing with on wing engine support, so I'm hopeful their commitments here are still strong. Fingers crossed.