Shannon Airport Thread [Mod Warning in First Post]

JCX BXC

The data shows Shannon as being a Common Diversion Airport for flights in the Atlantic, with many flights diverting each year (around 30). As of late I have been adding diversions from Knock, Cork and Dublin due to weather/other and hope to get a full number of diversions Shannon experiences this year.

Comhrá

locum-motion wrote: »

Out of curiosity:

There have been 89 posts in this forum in the last 3 years headed by or containing the words "Common Diversion Airport".

All but two of them (well, three now!) have been by the same poster.

So can I ask Brennan's Row: What is your obsession with recording every flight that diverts to SNN?

And can I ask other posters: Are you interested in this information?

Well, I am. I asked a question here a few weeks back regarding what I saw as an increasing number of diversions over the past 12 months or so, mainly due to medical emergencies, tech issues, security issues and of course, the few air-rage incidents.

As a local and an aviation lover, I'm interested in each and every incident of this type.
Reading this forum, I believe many others are interested too.

Jamie2k9

locum-motion wrote: »

Out of curiosity:

There have been 89 posts in this forum in the last 3 years headed by or containing the words "Common Diversion Airport".

All but two of them (well, three now!) have been by the same poster.

So can I ask Brennan's Row: What is your obsession with recording every flight that diverts to SNN?

And can I ask other posters: Are you interested in this information?

I'm indifferent however there has been the odd time it's come in handy for me.

Davys Fits

Yes this information is interesting...Keep it coming! Thats what forums are for .

Keano

locum-motion wrote: »

Out of curiosity:

There have been 89 posts in this forum in the last 3 years headed by or containing the words "Common Diversion Airport".

All but two of them (well, three now!) have been by the same poster.

So can I ask Brennan's Row: What is your obsession with recording every flight that diverts to SNN?

And can I ask other posters: Are you interested in this information?

You took the time count them... lot of time on your hands.

I for one if I hear a plane has diverted to Shannon, first place I check for the details...you guessed it.

Keano

locum-motion wrote: »

Out of curiosity:

There have been 89 posts in this forum in the last 3 years headed by or containing the words "Common Diversion Airport".

All but two of them (well, three now!) have been by the same poster.

So can I ask Brennan's Row: What is your obsession with recording every flight that diverts to SNN?

And can I ask other posters: Are you interested in this information?

You took the time count them... lot of time on your hands.

I for one if I hear a plane has diverted to Shannon, first place I check for the details...you guessed it.

knockon

locum-motion wrote: »

And can I ask other posters: Are you interested in this information?

Yes and all other things related to SNN.

I'll give you two examples

1. A 767 or 747 diverting has many ramifications for the local area/economy especially if PAX have to be accommodated in local hotels etc. Up to 60k can be spent in the local economy on an event like this and this interests me.

2. I used to work in SNN in aircraft maintenance and still have an interest in all things SNN related.

locum-motion

Keano wrote: »

You took the time count them... lot of time on your hands...

Not in the slightest. There's a 'Search' function on this website, you know!

hobie14

locum-motion wrote: »

Out of curiosity:

There have been 89 posts in this forum in the last 3 years headed by or containing the words "Common Diversion Airport".

All but two of them (well, three now!) have been by the same poster.

So can I ask Brennan's Row: What is your obsession with recording every flight that diverts to SNN?

And can I ask other posters: Are you interested in this information?

I often see Unusual aircraft coming in and rely on "guys in the Know" to give the background ..... keep the posts coming I say .....

Brennans Row

locum-motion wrote: »

Out of curiosity:

There have been 89 posts in this forum in the last 3 years headed by or containing the words "Common Diversion Airport".

All but two of them (well, three now!) have been by the same poster.

So can I ask Brennan's Row: What is your obsession with recording every flight that diverts to SNN?

And can I ask other posters: Are you interested in this information?

Shannon is one of a number of common diversion airports that serve the Atlantic routes.

In the Task Force Report it was recommended that it review its costs and revenues associated with a 24/7/365 operation.

Since 300,000 flights a year between Europe and North America pass through Irish controlled airspace, it was suggested that the IAA could contribute from their charges, towards some of the €2 million costs of keeping an airport open around the clock.

Unfortunately it is hard to get statistical data on diversions so I simply tagged every reported emergency with “Common Diversion Airport” to see how relevant this service is or not.

You would be more than welcome to disclose such information here too.

Shannon Aviation Business Development Task Force Final Report

5.2.1.3 Designated diversion airfield

Shannon is unique among the state airports in being open 24 hours per day, 365 days per year, as befits its status as a common diversion airport for aircraft encountering technical or medical emergencies over the Atlantic. This status also dictates the maintenance of an around-the-clock airport rescue and firefighting service. These opening hours impose an additional cost burden. Actual diversions are relatively infrequent and do not materially defray the costs of round-the-clock operation. However, the US military transit flights do make use of the extended opening hours.

Recommendation 5

Shannon Airport management should keep under review from an overall cost benefit perspective the specific costs and revenues associated with 24/7/365 operation, over and above operation in normal commercial hours.

JCX BXC

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/massive-increase-in-unscheduled-shannon-airport-landings-378555.html

Shannon received 319 unscheduled landings (diversions) last year, significantly up on whatever number was in 2014.

Comhrá

Ha....Carnacalla, you just beat me to posting that IExam. report.....I need to get up a bit earlier,lol.

hobie14

Brennans Row wrote: »

Shannon is one of a number of common diversion airports that serve the Atlantic routes.

In the Task Force Report it was recommended that it review its costs and revenues associated with a 24/7/365 operation.

Since 300,000 flights a year between Europe and North America pass through Irish controlled airspace, it was suggested that the IAA could contribute from their charges, towards some of the €2 million costs of keeping an airport open around the clock.

Unfortunately it is hard to get statistical data on diversions so I simply tagged every reported emergency with “Common Diversion Airport” to see how relevant this service is or not.

You would be more than welcome to disclose such information here too.

I have a daily number of flights that potentially could use Shannon as a diversion airport in the case of emergency ..... the number? .... 600 per day comes to mind (think an ATC guy told me that some time ago) ....

so 600 per day .... that's 219.000 per year .....

say a fiver charge each flight towards Shannons cost of 24/365 ops ..... that would raise a million over the year ...... say, significantly less than 5 cents per passenger .....

Jamie2k9

hobie14 wrote: »

I have a daily number of flights that potentially could use Shannon as a diversion airport in the case of emergency ..... the number? .... 600 per day comes to mind (think an ATC guy told me that some time ago) ....

so 600 per day .... that's 219.000 per year .....

say a fiver charge each flight towards Shannons cost of 24/365 ops ..... that would raise a million over the year ...... say, significantly less than 5 cents per passenger .....

Is there a real need for 24/7?

There is almost never a single diversion between 12-4.30am as there is next to no flights. The majority of diversions are never a "real emergency" in the sense of risk to life. The extra 10-15 minutes to DUB could cope just fine for 3-4 hours at night.

JCX BXC

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Is there a real need for 24/7?

There is almost never a single diversion between 12-4.30am as there is next to no flights. The majority of diversions are never a "real emergency" in the sense of risk to life. The extra 10-15 minutes to DUB could cope just fine for 3-4 hours at night.

Wouldn't that make EPTOS clearance worse?
Extra 15-20mins in a medical emergency?
Having to deal with potential weather at DUB (DUB is far worse affected by adverse weather than Shannon)

Dublin doesn't get the same number of diverts as SNN, and that's not for no reason. What about when 10/28 is closed and you have a 747 divert. Next ALT is PIK? Long way from 100miles off the Clare coast

Balf

Carnacalla wrote: »

What about when 10/28 is closed and you have a 747 divert. Next ALT is PIK? Long way from 100miles off the Clare coast

Is it fair to say this issue is another of those hardy perennials?

When Leo Varadkar was Minister for Transport, he commented on suggestions that Shannon had to open 24/7, saying " I’ve heard of that government commitment but I’ve yet to come across it or to see it written down anywhere in any international agreement or any document if such a commitment exists."

Undoubtedly, Shannon gets a lot of diversion compared to the other airports. Last year, when Shannon had 319, Dublin had 62 while Cork had 37.

At the same time, all airports are used in extremis. Cork has even taken a 747, when it was the best feasible option.

That said, you'd guess that Shannon's relatively low traffic means it can handle sudden demands to land with much less disruption than at Dublin during peak times. At the same time, that wouldn't require 24/7 operation, as Dublin is also open 24/7 with the exception of Christmas Day.

Do we know if Shannon ever had an emergency landing on Christmas Day?

Deagol

Balf wrote: »

Is it fair to say this issue is another of those hardy perennials?

Do we know if Shannon ever had an emergency landing on Christmas Day?

Sorry, but good planning is about what might happen but not what has happened.

JCX BXC

Exactly.

You plan for the worst case scenario, this is aviation, safety standards are high. The extra 25minutes to Dublin could really make the difference, regardless of whether most diversions are real emergencies. You cannot base it on that.

Cosmo Kramer

This has been discussed on here before and for me the honest answer is no, 24/7 at Shannon is not a necessity, either in practice or (as far as I am aware) by law. Shannon is handy, no doubt, but if it wasn't there there are plenty of other options for diversions all over the UK and in Ireland and I don't think it would make a lot of difference at all whether the aircraft ended up in Dublin, Prestwick or elsewhere.

JCX BXC

Cosmo Kramer wrote: »

This has been discussed on here before and for me the honest answer is no, 24/7 at Shannon is not a necessity,

According to who? Your opinion isn't fact you know.

hobie14

Maybe the Airlines etc using the North Atlantic should be the Judge ..... if the majority are happy to not have SNN on 24/365 then so be it ..... we could all have a quiet night ....

Davys Fits

I can tell you for sure and from experience that an always open airport means everything to a pilot planning a flight any where within or passing thru the SNN fir. Closing for even a few hours changes everything. The point is that even thought SNN is located in the wet and windy west of Ireland, your chance of landing there during inclement weather (even without CAT3) is greater than anywhere else nearby. Thats a fact not a myth!

Cosmo Kramer

Carnacalla wrote: »

According to who? Your opinion isn't fact you know.

That's a really unnecessarily indignant post. According to who you ask - according to me. Hence the use of the phrase 'for me', in the post'. I never said it was a fact, but it is my strongly held opinion.

If you're going to come on here and attack my posts like that, please at least have the decency to read them fully first before you do.

Balf

Davys Fits wrote: »

I can tell you for sure and from experience that an always open airport means everything to a pilot planning a flight any where within or passing thru the SNN fir.

I'm sure it is but (because I don't think this is ever crystal clear) doesn't the responsibility rest with the airline/pilot to chart a safe route, rather than the obligation being on the airport to be there to receive them?

As some have suggested, if airlines like the 24/7 service, they can be asked to pay for it. I mean, when we see an announcement like this:

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/shannon-lands-a380-emergency-base-238979.html

Does any actual money change hands?

Deagol

Balf wrote: »

I'm sure it is but (because I don't think this is ever crystal clear) doesn't the responsibility rest with the airline/pilot to chart a safe route, rather than the obligation being on the airport to be there to receive them?

As some have suggested, if airlines like the 24/7 service, they can be asked to pay for it. I mean, when we see an announcement like this:

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/shannon-lands-a380-emergency-base-238979.html

Does any actual money change hands?

Well, presumably landing charges for one? Plus they would have to pay for maintenence, refueling etc?

JCX BXC

So Ryanair don't even seem to be issuing a PR release for the SNN 2015 schedule this year, unusually.

Any expected growth for SNN soon?

Shannon757

Why are we still using this thread? It's 2016 not 2014/15.

JCX BXC

Ah jaysus just throw a "/16" on the end and we will be fine that's what we did last year at least.

Maybe 2014-2016?

Shannon757

Carnacalla wrote: »

Ah jaysus just throw a "/16" on the end and we will be fine that's what we did last year at least.

Maybe 2014-2016?

And how long can we keep that going?

JCX BXC

Shannon757 wrote: »

And how long can we keep that going?

As long as necessary! Why make a new thread?