Residents' association collection

gubby

Hi, I wonder if this is the correct forum so feel free to move.
I am member of a small residents association (32 houses) and have for a long time collected 2euro per house for about 10 months of the year.
The problem is its getting hard to collect this money. This money covers the upkeep of the estate, grass cutting etc.
Anyway, I am looking for ideas on ways to encourage people to pay. there are always going to be people who will not pay.. and then you have others saying why should I pay if so and so doesn't pay. I was thinking of some sort of incentive ie buying a few lotto tickets every week. then, the people who dont pay will be terrified that we would win and they would get nothing.
Just wondering how other groups get around this?
welcome any suggestions

Mrs OBumble

What is the legal status of your collection?

Why isn't the council or management assocaition responsible for getting the grass cut?

Frankly, if i moved into your estate and you came to my door begging for E2 for "grass cutting"

1) I wouldn't believe you about what it was for, and
2) I might pay up to keep good neighbourly relations, but I'd be bitter and twisted about it, and sorely tempted to tell you engage in sex-and-travel.

djimi

You can offer incentives if you wish (I suspect that a lotto syndicate would get messy with that many houses...), but ultimately if people dont want to pay then they wont pay, and there isnt really much that you can do about it.

The price that you charge seems reasonable though (Id be inclined to ask for €20 in one go at the start of the summer maybe rather than €2 a month), and if people see that they get some value from it with greens for their kids to play on etc then they should be chipping in.

Maybe a good way to show people of the value of what you do is to stop doing it for a while.

gubby

Mrs O Bumble, ah sure we have none of those fancy things here in the country. "management association" I don't even know what that is? We are in a Council estate but the majority of the home are purchased. The Council has no interest. in fact, up to this year they paid for the insurance of our lawnmower but now they wont even pay that. There is a big green area at the back of the houses that has to be cut every week during the summer, we try to deal with issues with the council (at the moment its the terrible water quality) We also give mass cards for the families of any deaths in the estate.
I think djimi is correct, if we stop doing these things, perhaps people may take some notice.
Believe me it is not nice trying to go around to collect money door to door... where anyone with any little crib will vent on you. once, the guy who was cutting the grass ran out of petrol on an evening and decided to leave the rest until the next day as he was almost done. The next week the house nearest to where he finished refused to pay. that is the kinda **** we deal with. I just feel like giving up

TheDriver

i would collect it all in one go. However it seems cheap, most places I know of would charge about 50-70 a year to cover the grass, upkeep, painting of common areas etc.

MouseTail

Goodness, collect it in one go, it must be a nightmare to go round collecting €2.

I've seen some RA have small stickers which are placed in windows of paid up households. 'Green Gables Residents Association 2014' which goes some way to shaming those who do not pay.

L1011

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Why isn't the council or management assocaition responsible for getting the grass cut?

Generally councils don't cut grass in 'private' estates even when taken in to charge - for instance Kildare give a residents association a derisory grant towards the cost of a private contractor. If there's no residents association it might get cut once a year.

Its 50 in my estate, 30 for retirees who make up about half the residents I'd guess (build 1965-73 and a lot of original buyers still present) and that gets the grass cut every fortnight from spring to late Autumn as well as trees managed etc.

Mrs OBumble

gubby wrote: »

... We are in a Council estate .... . There is a big green area at the back of the houses that has to be cut every week during the summer,

...
We also give mass cards for the families of any deaths in the estate.

Trust me, management companies / assocaitions exist in the country too. But it doesn't apply in your case, since there was never a private developer involved.

Who says that the grass has to be cut? Sure some people like the look better if it is - presumably those are the people most likely to pay? If not then you might have a more substantial problem, like people thinking that the funds have been misappropriated. (How often do you publish accounts? How often do you put the grass cutting work out to tender?)

Also, I'd question whether the Mass cards bit is appropriate: in an increasingly secular and angry-ex-catholic Ireland, some people might be unwilling to pay just because of this.

seamus

A note on lotto syndicates.

Depending on how you distribute the winnings, people who pay once and never again, may still be able to lay claim to any big winnings or jackpots.

So for example, you take €2 off everyone every week and decide that winnings up to €50 roll over to buy extra tickets the next week. Everyone who paid into the draw in week 1, is entitled to a share of the winnings on week 2, even if they don't pay their €2 for week 2. This is because the winnings from week 1 are legally partially theirs, and so too therefore are the tickets bought using those winnings.

Even if you make a policy of distributing/donating each week's winnings, therefore starting "fresh" the next week, someone has hasn't paid into a draw may still be entitled to a share of a jackpot if they can show that they were previously a regular contributor, and for whatever reason, "missed" that week's draw, and didn't actually decline to pay to their €2.

frag420

seamus wrote: »

A note on lotto syndicates.

Depending on how you distribute the winnings, people who pay once and never again, may still be able to lay claim to any big winnings or jackpots.

So for example, you take €2 off everyone every week and decide that winnings up to €50 roll over to buy extra tickets the next week. Everyone who paid into the draw in week 1, is entitled to a share of the winnings on week 2, even if they don't pay their €2 for week 2. This is because the winnings from week 1 are legally partially theirs, and so too therefore are the tickets bought using those winnings.

Even if you make a policy of distributing/donating each week's winnings, therefore starting "fresh" the next week, someone has hasn't paid into a draw may still be entitled to a share of a jackpot if they can show that they were previously a regular contributor, and for whatever reason, "missed" that week's draw, and didn't actually decline to pay to their €2.

I would be telling them go do one!! If you aint in you dont win!! Sure if I do the same numbers every week and tehn forget to do them and my numbers come up can I say that I deserve the prize because I am a regular player of the lottery?

Anyways back on topic, OP stop collecting and let them see what happens to the area when nobody takes care of it!! See how tier house value may be effected when the grass is over grown in common areas, street lights etc are not fixed and it looks like crap!!

L1011

frag420 wrote: »

I would be telling them go do one!!

Which isn't a valid argument in court. The above isn't just made up.

frag420

MYOB wrote: »

Which isn't a valid argument in court. The above isn't just made up.

and neither should be the argument that I forgot to enter or didnt have the money to play!!

L1011

frag420 wrote: »

and neither should be the argument that I forgot to enter or didnt have the money to play!!

Except there have been court cases where it did.

Teyla Emmagan

How formal is this residents' association of yours? Have you a constitution? Elected representatives? Generally you would have all that, and an AGM, and the treasurer would publish a report at that showing where everyone's money has gone for the year. That should allay concerns you're misappropriating it. Then everyone is asked to join the association and a yearly subscription (ours is 15 euro, but I know of neighbouring associations where it is as low as 5) is used to cover the upkeep (in your case, cutting the grass).

That's what I'd advise anyway. PM me if you want more details.

My folks live in a much smaller estate (8 houses) surrounding a green, and they put a rota in place each year to cut the grass. Would that work for you? Does this really need to be outsourced? Maybe you could buy a lawnmower and share it? You should also be organising clean up days for weeding/planting/painting. The whole point is to appeal to your neighbours' community spirit. Everyone will also know fast enough then who can't be bothered participating.

The stickers for the windows is also a really good idea - I will be stealing that one!!

frag420

MYOB wrote: »

Except there have been court cases where it did.

Out of pure curiousity can you link to any of them as I would be interested in reading about them.

No Pants

Just stop doing it OP. Let it go.

Gatling

frag420 wrote: »

Out of pure curiousity can you link to any of them as I would be interested in reading about them.

A few years back you had the big taxi syndicate case where if I remember correctly involved 5 members who contributed on a weekly basis and another chap who hadn't paid a penny in months but when they won a sum of money the driver who didn't contribute to the pot demanded a lump sum and when he was told to do one he took it to court ,
He won his case and was awarded a portion of the winning a equal share to the other lads who never missed a payment

No Pants

Gatling wrote: »

A few years back you had the big taxi syndicate case where if I remember correctly involved 5 members who contributed on a weekly basis and another chap who hadn't paid a penny in months but when they won a sum of money the driver who didn't contribute to the pot demanded a lump sum and when he was told to do one he took it to court ,
He won his case and was awarded a portion of the winning a equal share to the other lads who never missed a payment

If this is the one you're referring to, he did and then he didn't.

DoozerT6

OP, would it be worth your while setting up a Facebook group for the Residents Association? You could suss it out with the residents the next time you go around collecting the €2, and depending on how many households have someone on Facebook and how interested they are, it might be worth doing. Our RA have one, and it is a useful tool for residents to raise issues, and stay informed on issues of interest to the estate. You could use it to keep people informed of where their money is going, organise estate clean-ups, etc.

If people are able to communicate with their neighbours about goings-on in the estate (good and bad!) and feel like they're being kept in the loop, they might(?) perhaps be more inclined to participate in the upkeep costs. No guarantees of course.

I would steer clear of ever posting the dates of your next €2 collection on the Facebook page though - too easy then for people to be "out" when you call...

If Facebook is a no-no, would some computer-savvy member of the RA do up some basic one-page newsletters to hand out at collection time with information/news for the estate? (Check if this is cost-effective for you).

Another option - set up a bank account and encourage anybody who is contributing to set up a standing order with their bank for the €2....it would save you traipsing around the estate if nothing else! You also then have a printed record of who is contributing and can account for any withdrawals etc.

king rhus

When it comes to collecting money for the cutting of grass and the up keep of an area you may as well give up. Where I am living about twenty five house pay out of a total of one hundred and fifty houses. One person said he could not afford the €50 even when there was a 151 Lexus by the door. If I had my way there would be a few ponies' on the common areas to make them appreciate the cutting of the grass.
But I do like the idea of sending mass card.
In response to the notion that i don't use that area so I won't pay for it, this argument is rubbish for even if you don't use it, you still get a value from it in the form of property value, you should try sell a property that is not maintained Or maybe you think that that area would be better for parking burnt out cars.....
King thus