Driving test lifesaver procedure

pegdrums

Hey all hows it going?
I just sat my driving test for a full A license and failed. My instructor, the candidate who followed me and myself are all extremely puzzled as to why I failed.

SAFETY GLANCES.

I failed under the heading of safety glances. Ok.

So the routine we all learn for turning left or right at a junction is
1)Observation
2)Signal
3)maneuver- (its a drift)
4)position
5)Speed (slowing down!)
6)Look (LIFESAVER)

Or: O S M P S L (Or a similar acronym)

The lifesaver is done before you tilt the bike into the corner. Yes?

NOT ACCORDING TO MY EXAMINER ITS NOT.
ACCORDING TO HER ITS
1) Observation
2) Signal
3) LIFESAVER
4) Maneuver
5) Position
6) Speed
7) LIFESAVER

Since I have never ever heard of doing a lifesaver or 'safety glance' here its needless to say I clocked up quite a lot of these errors during the test.

Any thoughts on this newly created lifesaver are much appreciated. Even if you check in BOTH the RSA ' this is your bike' and the 'Police Riders Handbook' for the UK, there is no mention of a safety glance after your signal. This amount of looking behind you is going top lead to an accident or whiplash.

Generally I recognise my wrong doings when explained to me and agree with them if they make sense. The ONLY other mark on my sheet was for the 'walk along side', I didn't do any rear observation before it. My bad, I'll go with that.

I would appeal this if only to get a free re-test, after reading the citizens information page Im unsure if I will though, heres the webpage for appealing: http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/travel_and_recreation/motoring_1/driving_tests/appealing_your_driving_test_results.html

Thanks for reading.

pegdrums

Oh by the way, I asked her to repeat what she said abut when to do safety glances and i took it down in front of her word for word,
"You are expected to do safety glances before you drift approaching a turn"

News to me.

jayok

Did you do this in the Finglas area? If so, I spotted you doing the test...

pegdrums

Yea, test was at 10:15, would have been out on the road just after half ten Id say.

jayok

Ok, FWIW, just some small feedback (if it was you on the Ballymun Road). I tend to watch bikers, doing their test more of a curiosity rather than anything else:

You didn't do life savers when changing road position, that includes taking the left bend onto the bottom of the Ballymun Road. Also you didn't give a glance right when completing the bend.

The same happened when you turned off the Ballymun Road onto Glasnevin Avenue.

In honesty, you *looked* very rigid and not very observant on the bike.

I was only behind your instructors car (a Zafira or something like that), so I couldn't see you some of the time. And that what it looked like to me...

Just my 2c.

pegdrums

Wasn't me, that never came up in the feedback and I lifesavered the beejaysus out of that test at all the spots we're supposed to, especially lane changes.
Ya didn't by chance catch what bike it was?

jayok

Fair enough, not sure if it was you or not, my feedback could be completely irrelevant to you. But someone today wasn't doing it right!

It was a driving instructors' bike. The rear reg plate had a surround of a green and white school name and number along with an "L"

In terms of the process, what I done to turn left (as a example)

1. Mirror, move to position within the lane (left side)
2. Indicator
3. Life saver just before completing the turn
4. Just before mid-turn take a cursory glance to the right to make sure it's still clear
5. Complete the turn
6. Indicator off
7. Mirror
8. Move back to the position in the middle of the lane

In a round-about you're lifesaving when you enter AND exit it.

pegdrums

Also, after I turned on to the Ballymun road I had to pull in for ages and wait as the examiner didn't get through the lights that went amber as I went through

pegdrums

Yea, I can see what your saying , but I failed because I wasn't lifesavering twice before turning. At EVERY turn, that racks up a whole load of points.

I was on an instructors bike alright but no green or L on reg plate.

RosieJoe

The whole point of the lifesaver is to do it before you change your lane position, so the Examiner is correct in saying you do one at number 3, right before you maneuver.

Whenever you go to alter your position you need to check your blind spot right before you do to ensure there is nothing there

blu3r0ri0n

Who was your "instructor"?

kaimera

A lifesaver after the manoeuvre is finished?

I can see how you may have to but that's totally situation dependant rather than a hard and fast rule imo.

/me waits for instructors!

pegdrums

Have to disagree quite strongly im afraid.
Reason why is this is my second test and apart from the glaring mistake I made which failed me my last test, All my procedures were done in the exact same manner. Not one mark was docked for safety glances in my previous test.
This examiner was being examined herself and perhaps being OTT?

If we drove around checking our blind spots every single time we changed position, even for a pothole or whatever we'd spend more time looking behind us the infront.

Mirror for a drift, even says this in the RSA handbook.
Lifesaver for a tilt
Full observation for lane change, is what me and many others have learned.

Its also what I excessed in my previous test and got no faults for.

Its the inconsistency that gets me. one examiner says one thing another says something different

jimgoose

That tester is right. The point of a lifesaver is that it is done before the machine moves off-line. The idea of this is to try to prevent you from drifting into the side of a Range Rover, with predictable results. In practice, this usually means a lifesaver before moving from the normal, dead-ahead position to the turning positions, i.e. the left or right of the lane, and again before actually turning. A roundabout is effectively left turn followed by another left turn, so at least two lifesavers are used when negotiating it.

pegdrums

kaimera wrote: »

A lifesaver after the manoeuvre is finished?

I can see how you may have to but that's totally situation dependant rather than a hard and fast rule imo.

/me waits for instructors!

Situation dependant would make sense, but she made it out to be a hard and fast rule.

can't see your emoticon thing before waits for instructors.

seamus

Just break it down here:

So the routine we all learn for turning left or right at a junction is
1)Observation
2)Signal
3)maneuver- (its a drift)
4)position
5)Speed (slowing down!)
6)Look (LIFESAVER)

What's the purpose of the lifesaver? It's to ensure there are no vehicles in your blindspot. Even if the maneuver is a "drift", you have started drifting, without checking your blindspot.
So in the above list, the primary purpose of the lifesaver is completely lost. If there's something in your blindspot, you're going to come a cropper.

The purpose of the second lifesaver at the end is to re-evaluate the road conditions fully after you've complete the turn; check if someone has decided to overtake you, pull out of a parking space, etc etc. No, it's not always necessary and I would be surprised if an instructor marked you down for it every time.

pegdrums

@Jimgoose: Even if Im in the central position of a single lane and can see traffic behind quite clearly?

If this is the case why is it not in the RSA handbook 'this is your bike'?

just wanna make it clear to all reading/replying , Yes Im bitter I failed and No Im not having a go at anyone here, all feedback is much appreciated!

jimgoose

pegdrums wrote: »

@Jimgoose: Even if Im in the central position of a single lane and can see traffic behind quite clearly?

If this is the case why is it not in the RSA handbook 'this is your bike'?...

Yes. Before the motorcycle moves off-line. As for why it's not in the "This Is Your Bike" book, I have no idea. That book won't save your life. A good instructor just might.

jayok

Folks,

I think what the OP means, is that if he's in the middle of the lane in a drive ahead position and is getting ready to turn left, he will:

1. check the mirror
2. Drift to the left edge of the lane
3. Life-saver
4. Tilt and turn
5. Upright
6. Mirror

A life-saver for a drift WITHIN the lane shouldn't be necessary.

jimgoose

jayok wrote: »

Folks,

I think what the OP means, is that if he's in the middle of the lane in a drive ahead position and is getting ready to turn left, he will:

1. check the mirror
2. Drift to the left edge of the lane
3. Life-saver
4. Tilt and turn
5. Upright
6. Mirror

A life-saver for a drift WITHIN the lane shouldn't be necessary.

I agree. But it is.

pegdrums

Ok so the lifesaver before the drift seems to be coming up quite a unanimous yes.

Then why have all the other people Ive seen from the same instructor not had an issue with this in the test?

Again, i was failed because I didn't lifesaver before my drift, I DID do a mirror check. My lifesavers were all done before I tipped the bike in to the corner.

jayok

jimgoose wrote: »

I agree. But it is.

So, movement WITHIN a lane requires a life-saver? News to me.

Actually, still doesn't make sense. From a road positioning perspective, we drift left to right depending on the sweeping bend. No life saver required.

We need an instructor.

pegdrums

jayok wrote: »

Folks,

I think what the OP means, is that if he's in the middle of the lane in a drive ahead position and is getting ready to turn left, he will:

1. check the mirror
2. Drift to the left edge of the lane
3. Life-saver
4. Tilt and turn
5. Upright
6. Mirror

A life-saver for a drift WITHIN the lane shouldn't be necessary.

Thankyou , That is exactly my point.

seamus

jayok wrote: »

A life-saver for a drift WITHIN the lane shouldn't be necessary.

Situation depending. Theoretically any change of lane position (e.g. from onside to offside) should be preceded by a lifesaver, as there could be another bike (or even a car in a wide lane) in that spot.
Before a turn you don't usually "drift", you change lane position in a relatively short space of time, which could catch another person off-guard.

In theory you shouldn't "drift" in your lane at all
You should maintain the onside road position and then perform a lifesaver every time you deviate from that road position.

pegdrums

jayok wrote: »

So, movement WITHIN a lane requires a life-saver? News to me.


This also means if a big meaty pothole lies ahead its ,
Lifesaver, then move?

A kid runs out in the road
Lifesaver, then move?

All within a single lane in the straight ahead position

jayok

pegdrums wrote: »

This also means if a big meaty pothole lies ahead its ,
Lifesaver, then move?

A kid runs out in the road
Lifesaver, then move?

To be fair, I think would be considered emergency manoeuvres.

pegdrums

seamus wrote: »

Situation depending. Theoretically any change of lane position (e.g. from onside to offside) should be preceded by a lifesaver, as there could be another bike (or even a car in a wide lane) in that spot.
Before a turn you don't usually "drift", you change lane position in a relatively short space of time, which could catch another person off-guard.

In theory you shouldn't "drift" in your lane at all
You should maintain the onside road position and then perform a lifesaver every time you deviate from that road position.

By drift I just mean a smooth change of position from central to offside or nearside

seamus

pegdrums wrote: »

This also means if a big meaty pothole lies ahead its ,
Lifesaver, then move?

Yep. Usually you will have plenty of time to see these things, so plenty of time to check.

A kid runs out in the road
Lifesaver, then move?

If you have time. Personally my aim would be to reduce my speed as much as possible before changing road position.

pegdrums

jayok wrote: »

To be fair, I think would be considered emergency manoeuvres.

true yea, bad examples.

But as someone above said earlier when changing position on a bend we dont have to lifesaver

jimgoose

jayok wrote: »

So, movement WITHIN a lane requires a life-saver? News to me.

Actually, still doesn't make sense. From a road positioning perspective, we drift left to right depending on the sweeping bend. No life saver required.

We need an instructor.

You shouldn't be changing your lane position in the middle of a bend. That's naughty.

pegdrums

jimgoose wrote: »

You shouldn't be changing your lane position in the middle of a bend. That's naughty.

you know what i mean, if you are going round a left bend ( country driving for example) you should be in the offside position , a right bend you should be in the near side position. If the bends come in succession you kinda have to change position on the bend.