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ANOTHER Tesco in the city centre?!!!

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2

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    #32
    AlexDublin
    Registered Users Posts: 112 ✭✭AlexDublin


    NoCrackHaving wrote: »
    You aren't sure on how to do this because you can't. The idea of the free market/capitalism etc. is driven on this whole idea. Unless you begin restricting certain buildings to certain types of shops (which wouldn't work due to rent costs etc.) this won't happen.

    Also look around the whole Georges Street/South William/Exchequer Street area, right in the heart of the city but all independent shops/bars/restaurants, locally owned. Hardly multi-national there.

    Also as an aside, as someone who lives in a city centre, we need supermarkets too! I have lots of small butchers/greengrocers etc. but sometimes when you just want a frozen pizza or some ham and cheese, Tesco Metro is great!

    I disagree that that it is impossible to stop the blandification of the city centre. I think its entirely possible. You raise an interesting points as to whether the free market/ capitalism works in relation to our city and its workings. Perhaps zoning buildings or streets; like you mentioned; is a way forward.


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    #33
    markpb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,310 ✭✭✭markpb


    I'm not sure zoning would be allowed prohibit multinationals or chains. It can be used to direct what use the building can be put to and, if it's commercial, what types of businesses can use it, eg cafe / convenience shop / supermarket / clothes shop.

    Commercial landlords prefer renting to chains because they can be guaranteed continuity of rent even if the tenant decides to close a single shop. This is why you see empty units in otherwise very desirable locations - the chain has closed that shop but still has to complete the lease with the landlord. With smaller businesses, they can't get this and see a bigger risk. If you want to encourage smaller businesses, you need a different type of owner. Temple Bar is an example of this, though it's success is subjective. Some cities buy and lease units in strategic locations so they can encourage specific types of businesses or mandate specific conditions (like staying open late).


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    #34
    Aard
    Registered Users Posts: 4,905 ✭✭✭Aard


    AlexDublin wrote: »
    I disagree that that it is impossible to stop the blandification of the city centre. I think its entirely possible. [...]Perhaps zoning buildings or streets; like you mentioned; is a way forward.
    How do you think it is possible? (My emphasis above.)

    You mention "zoning", but are short on specifics. The planning system (which zoning is part of) does not get involved in competition, or viability of specific businesses.

    So you'd have to find a non-planning way of achieving your goal. State-subsidised rent? Some sort of licencing system? I'm running out of ideas fast, and not sure it's worth it. As I said above, your worry only relates to a few streets in the city centre.


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    #35
    jonnny68
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,670 ✭✭✭jonnny68


    Are some people stuck with interesting things to post about.

    How is something like this even worthy of discussion :-\


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    #36
    Mr Simpson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,332 ✭✭✭Mr Simpson


    jonnny68 wrote: »
    Are some people stuck with interesting things to post about.

    How is something like this even worthy of discussion :-\

    If you don't like the discussion, don't take part


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    #37
    hfallada
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,180 ✭✭✭hfallada


    markpb wrote: »
    I'm not sure zoning would be allowed prohibit multinationals or chains. It can be used to direct what use the building can be put to and, if it's commercial, what types of businesses can use it, eg cafe / convenience shop / supermarket / clothes shop.

    The EU would grill Ireland for this. Member states are not supposed to favour their indigenous companies over multinationals. A most problem with irish Retailers is their lack of uniqueness. Most Irish retailers are carbon copies of a store found elsewhere in the world.


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    #38
    NoCrackHaving
    Registered Users Posts: 535 ✭✭✭NoCrackHaving


    hfallada wrote: »
    The EU would grill Ireland for this. Member states are not supposed to favour their indigenous companies over multinationals. A most problem with irish Retailers is their lack of uniqueness. Most Irish retailers are carbon copies of a store found elsewhere in the world.

    Like everywhere really, I've lived in 4 major cities outside Ireland and shops are similar because that's what people want. Like I said, want to buy a frozen pizza? It's the same type of shop that will sell it whether you're in Dublin, Chicago, Munich or Tokyo.


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    #39
    AlexDublin
    Registered Users Posts: 112 ✭✭AlexDublin


    Aard wrote: »
    How do you think it is possible? (My emphasis above.)

    You mention "zoning", but are short on specifics. The planning system (which zoning is part of) does not get involved in competition, or viability of specific businesses.

    So you'd have to find a non-planning way of achieving your goal. State-subsidised rent? Some sort of licencing system? I'm running out of ideas fast, and not sure it's worth it. As I said above, your worry only relates to a few streets in the city centre.

    I don't claim to know how to create a great city but I am very interested in the topic. And I believe it is very important. It is interesting reading the various opinions on here.


    This is very interesting markpb "If you want to encourage smaller businesses, you need a different type of owner. Temple Bar is an example of this, though it's success is subjective. Some cities buy and lease units in strategic locations so they can encourage specific types of businesses or mandate specific conditions".


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    #40
    Aard
    Registered Users Posts: 4,905 ✭✭✭Aard


    Which streets are the problem though? Name a few, because there really aren't that many.

    Would you make it so that Tesco and other international retailers could only set up in non-Main Street or non-City Centre locations?


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    #41
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,904 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    January wrote: »
    Really, have you got the stats to prove that?

    Its commonly known that opening any large out-of-town retail centre casues job losses in the area, often equal to or exceeding the jobs "created" by the new centre. Definitely not a UK-only phenomenon.

    Same applies to a lesser extent to them opening new town/city centre supermarkets like this one, but that's normal competition rather than the serious distortion of competiton that out of town ones are.


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    #42
    ibarelycare
    Registered Users Posts: 58,456 ✭✭✭✭ibarelycare


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    This is the first I have heard of Tesco on Dame St, I pass the area a couple of times a week and have never noticed it.

    It's been open a few months. It's more College Green than Dame Street technically...next door to The Bank bar, where Londis used to be. It's not a big supermarket, it's just a convenience store really.


    They're currently renovating the old National Irish Bank near it too, and opening H&M there.


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    #43
    cat_dog
    Closed Accounts Posts: 276 ✭✭cat_dog


    I'd rather another Tesco than an Aldi or Lidl. Sick of em.


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    #44
    tricky D
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,700 ✭✭✭tricky D


    MYOB wrote: »
    Its commonly known that opening any large out-of-town retail centre casues job losses in the area, often equal to or exceeding the jobs "created" by the new centre. Definitely not a UK-only phenomenon.

    Same applies to a lesser extent to them opening new town/city centre supermarkets like this one, but that's normal competition rather than the serious distortion of competiton that out of town ones are.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wal-Mart_Effect


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    #45
    EyeSight
    Registered Users Posts: 1,180 ✭✭✭EyeSight


    tricky D wrote: »
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wal-Mart_Effect

    Don't know if you can compare it to the Irish economy. Besides these studies are one sided and don't go far enough.
    Walmart opens, local stores may close. Walmart may hire the same amount of employees(sometimes more as they're usually massive). But what about the savings the local shoppers make? They will more than likely spend that money in other stores in their local area.


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    #46
    Aard
    Registered Users Posts: 4,905 ✭✭✭Aard


    cat_dog wrote: »
    I'd rather another Tesco than an Aldi or Lidl. Sick of em.

    I can't think of any Aldi or Lidl in the city centre except for Parnell Street, and Thomas Street at a stretch. Where else is there one?


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    #47
    January
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,862 ✭✭✭✭January


    Aard wrote: »
    I can't think of any Aldi or Lidl in the city centre except for Parnell Street, and Thomas Street at a stretch. Where else is there one?

    They are the only ones.


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    #48
    cat_dog
    Closed Accounts Posts: 276 ✭✭cat_dog


    There's an Aldi and a Lidl in Rathmines


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    #49
    markpb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,310 ✭✭✭markpb


    cat_dog wrote: »
    There's an Aldi and a Lidl in Rathmines

    Rathmines is hardly the city centre. Not far outside it maybe.


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    #50
    Aard
    Registered Users Posts: 4,905 ✭✭✭Aard


    Rathmines is hardly "City Centre". Anyway, how does Aldi/Lidl make for a worse urban environment?


    ETA: Nice wording markpb :pac:


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    #51
    cat_dog
    Closed Accounts Posts: 276 ✭✭cat_dog


    Aard wrote: »
    I can't think of any Aldi or Lidl in the city centre except for Parnell Street, and Thomas Street at a stretch. Where else is there one?

    Cork Street as well.


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    #52
    January
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,862 ✭✭✭✭January


    cat_dog wrote: »
    Cork Street as well.

    Not city centre either, inner city.


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    #53
    wicklowwonder
    Registered Users Posts: 1,504 ✭✭✭wicklowwonder


    Lidl on Moore St. too.


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    #54
    Aard
    Registered Users Posts: 4,905 ✭✭✭Aard


    Right, so that's two Aldi/Lidls in "town" Town (Parnell St, Moore St), while I can think of five Tescos in the same area (Baggot St, Dame St, Temple Bar, Jervis, Parnell St). Where's the problem, cat_dog?


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    #55
    wicklowwonder
    Registered Users Posts: 1,504 ✭✭✭wicklowwonder


    Aard wrote: »
    Right, so that's two Aldi/Lidls in "town" Town (Parnell St, Moore St), while I can think of five Tescos in the same area (Baggot St, Dame St, Temple Bar, Jervis, Parnell St). Where's the problem, cat_dog?

    I think you need to break them down though. Baggot St and Temple Bar are Tesco Metro so closer to a convenience store like a Spar or Centra than a Supermarket. Jervis and Parnell are supermarkets while I am not sure which one Dame St. is.


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    #56
    cat_dog
    Closed Accounts Posts: 276 ✭✭cat_dog


    Aard wrote: »
    Right, so that's two Aldi/Lidls in "town" Town (Parnell St, Moore St), while I can think of five Tescos in the same area (Baggot St, Dame St, Temple Bar, Jervis, Parnell St). Where's the problem, cat_dog?

    They're worse than Tesco. They're everywhere. Theres even an Lidl in Portugal! They've cheap, mostly poor quality products and I find their stores unappealing to shop in. Tesco are more expensive but you know you're getting good quality and their suppliers are being paid fairly.


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    #57
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,904 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    EyeSight wrote: »
    But what about the savings the local shoppers make? They will more than likely spend that money in other stores in their local area.

    They frequently *don't* make any savings.


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    #58
    FloatingVoter
    Registered Users Posts: 6,133 ✭✭✭FloatingVoter


    cat_dog wrote: »
    They're worse than Tesco. They're everywhere. Theres even an Lidl in Portugal! They've cheap, mostly poor quality products and I find their stores unappealing to shop in. Tesco are more expensive but you know you're getting good quality and their suppliers are being paid fairly.

    Aldi and Lidl are both German in origin and can be found all across Europe. They're cheap (no complaints there) and on the whole the quality of the food is as good as if not better than Tescos and certainly Dunnes.


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    #59
    EyeSight
    Registered Users Posts: 1,180 ✭✭✭EyeSight


    MYOB wrote: »
    They frequently *don't* make any savings.

    I don't see how. If i had to do my shopping in the local spar or corner shop i'd be paying more. With the money i save i can afford a few more pints in my local or could afford to eat out more


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    #60
    cat_dog
    Closed Accounts Posts: 276 ✭✭cat_dog


    FloatingVoter wrote: »
    Aldi and Lidl are both German in origin and can be found all across Europe. They're cheap (no complaints there) and on the whole the quality of the food is as good as if not better than Tescos and certainly Dunnes.
    I've noticed their fruit and veg go off really fast. And almost evertime I bought a packet of fruit they were usually substandard (very brused and even rotting! -yuck). And the blueberries are very hit and miss. Sometimes there bitter and you'll almost always find at least one moldy one. Quality control is obviously not their priority. Thats why I stopped shopping there.


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    #61
    ibarelycare
    Registered Users Posts: 58,456 ✭✭✭✭ibarelycare


    cat_dog wrote: »
    I've noticed their fruit and veg go off really fast. And almost evertime I bought a packet of fruit they were usually substandard (very brused and even rotting! -yuck). And the blueberries are very hit and miss. Sometimes there bitter and you'll almost always find at least one moldy one. Quality control is obviously not their priority. Thats why I stopped shopping there.

    I find the quality of fruit and veg far better than Tesco. Tesco fruit and veg is frozen in storage and goes brown so quickly. I buy fruit and veg in Aldi all the time and it lasts ages, especially things like peppers, onions and apples.


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